Luas assult victim ..... Case puzzling

handlemaster

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/circuit-court/passengers-watched-as-woman-attacked-and-robbed-on-luas-1.2280555


The judge accepts a defendant acted out of character but has 24 previous convictions ... Im I missing somthing?

P.s. I know selling mistake in the title ..

Carlos Orange

Sometimes a system of elected judges looks like a good idea.

suicide_circus

Scumbags: 1
Society: 0

tomwaterford

suicide_circus wrote: »

Scumbags: 1
Society: 0

In all fairness....why would someone on the Luas not have done something??

Odelay

Hi, welcome to Ireland and our unique justice system.
For a get out of jail free card rack up as many offences as you possibly can, the more the better, just don't misslabel garlic as apples, cos that's a serious offence.

Fr_Dougal

24 previous convictions, including assault and public order offences

I wonder is the aul Judge fond of a sherry...

5rtytry56

Who minds the 2 kids while both paRents are in jail?
The kids have a very high chance coming before the courts at some point as well.
Maybe the judge believes if the kids have Mammy to mind them it will lessen this possibility somehow.
Personally I see this perception as being completely worthless.

suicide_circus

tomwaterford wrote: »

In all fairness....why would someone on the Luas not have done something??

Presumably because they didnt want a syringe imbedded in their throat.

The real question is why these two degenerates with over 50 convictions between them were at liberty at all.

handlemaster

tomwaterford wrote: »

In all fairness....why would someone on the Luas not have done something??

Would you. First I would be thinking are the three of them scumbags. Its Usually the peace maker who ends up getting it .

anncoates

tomwaterford wrote: »

In all fairness....why would someone on the Luas not have done something??

People are afraid or in shock.

Intervention could turn the situation into a worse incident.

It's not as straightforward as them simply not caring although some probably don't.

Think I recognize who one of them is, by the way. Nice to see they've ended up somewhere in life.

Duiske

Odelay wrote: »

just don't misslabel garlic as apples cos that's a serious offence.

Not that serious an offence to mis-label food stuff. Probably comes under the sale of goods act somewhere. However, doing so in an attempt to commit a multi-million euro fraud against the taxpayers of this state is treated as a serious offence, and rightly so.

nokia69

hatrickpatrick

Duiske wrote: »

Not that serious an offence to mis-label food stuff. Probably comes under the sale of goods act somewhere. However, doing so in an attempt to commit a multi-million euro fraud against the taxpayers of this state is treated as a serious offence, and rightly so.

Sure, but more serious than assault? Really?
Scumbags like these should receive sentences which are among the highest in our court system. The longer they're kept away from decent people who don't deserve to tangle with them, the better.

yabadabado

5rtytry56 wrote: »

Who minds the 2 kids while both paRents are in jail?
The kids have a very high chance coming before the courts at some point as well.
Maybe the judge believes if the kids have Mammy to mind them it will lessen this possibility somehow.

She seems to be doing a top job

Gda Fleming agreed with Nicola Cox BL, defending McGowan, that the mother-of-two is known for “wandering aimlessly through Tallaght” and was highly intoxicated on the day.

hatrickpatrick

Rough Sleeper wrote: »

He considered it out of character because her previous convictions were for theft and drug offences ie. non-violent crimes.

This case was theft as well. Theft is sometimes a non-violent offence, but when it comes to junkies it's usually safe to assume that theft = mugging.

Rough Sleeper

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

This case was theft as well. Theft is sometimes a non-violent offence, but when it comes to junkies it's usually safe to assume that theft = mugging.

Deleted my post, I'd misread the story. The defendant in question had previous convictions for assault and public disorder. I dunno like.

anncoates

Rough Sleeper wrote: »

Deleted my post, I'd misread the story. The defendant in question had previous convictions for assault and public disorder. I dunno like.

She was picked up carrying a knife around last year as well.

Boring username

Look, I'll spell out the big secret for you. Stories like this are here to stay-this is the new normal, to borrow the phrase. We were outraged last week about some other violent scumbag. And the week before that. And all the weeks before that. We've been outraged for years. And still nothing gets done. And we'll be outraged next week about yet another toerag who beats the law yet again.

Nothing is ever going to change until the Irish public organizes themselves into co-ordinated, vocal groups that demand, not meekly ask, but straight up fcuking DEMAND that the state protects its citizens, and gives the public what they want. We saw it with the Gay rights movement. We saw it with the Divorce referendum. People power does work, but Christ it can be slow to effect change. But once it gets going, it snowballs quite fast. The Irish public need to organise a public strike, involving the trade unions, to bring attention to this nuisance. This is going to continue indefinitely until we do something about it.

So please, no more whining to Joe Duffy. No more moaning in the pub. No more pointless rants on facebook about crime. No more looking the other way. The only way this is going to get sorted is by targeting the people who control the levers of power in this country:
1. The legal system.
2. The media.
3. Your local TD.

So what is the solution? We've tried being nice. We've tried to be reasonable with the scummers. We've tried the kid gloves, the softly softly, the rehabilitation, the slap on the wrists, the final warning.

The reality is that Ireland needs a super prison that can hold 5,000 prisoners. Bring in a 3 strikes rule. The only way you'll see a reduction in crime is by denying criminals their liberty. And for those who say prison is only a criminal university? Yeah, it is. But the criminals can learn all you want doing 20 years behind bars.

So will we be here again next week, going round and round in circles? Or will we start to lobby for change?
Are you prepared to march to demand a safer Ireland?

We can all keep looking the other way, but sooner or later, it's going to be me and you that gets out teeth kicked out. Or worse.

Freddiestar

I avoid that red line like you wouldn't believe, wild feckin west on there most of the time.

Rough Sleeper

anncoates wrote: »

She was picked up carrying a knife around last year as well.

As every concerned citizen should. The only way to stop a bad guy with a knife is a good guy with a knife.

frostyjacks

I had a quick google of this judge to see if this kind of ridiculous ruling was out of character, but no, it's entirely in keeping with the joke decisions she's made in the past. She lives in her own little world. She'll never have to worry about being mugged by junkies on the Luas.

Convicted rapist who repeatedly violated parole let free.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/convicted-rapist-who-violated-parole-terms-is-released-1.1953665

2 year sentence for a man with over 35,000 images of child abuse.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/2-year-sentence-for-child-porn-inadequate-expert-tells-judge-162557.html

Man who assaulted a woman and broke her nose spared jail (he was a barrister, surprise, surprise)

http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/crime/barrister-who-head-butted-creche-manager-2361646

What do scum have to do to get punished in this country? It's a joke.

Carlos Orange

frostyjacks wrote: »

Man who assaulted a woman and broke her nose spared jail (he was a barrister, surprise, surprise)

http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/crime/barrister-who-head-butted-creche-manager-2361646

"But she added that mitigating factors included Waters' previous good character, his disability and his remorse for carrying out the assault."

Being disabled is a mitigating factor in an assault?

hatrickpatrick

Freddiestar wrote: »

I avoid that red line like you wouldn't believe, wild feckin west on there most of the time.

Which particular areas on the Red Line are so notorious? I used to get it from Dolphin's Barn (Rialto / Fatima depending on my mood) to the city centre from time to time, never had any problems - is it only when it gets further from the city centre that it becomes as wild as people say it is?

Guy:Incognito

Odelay wrote: »

Hi, welcome to Ireland and our unique justice system.
For a get out of jail free card rack up as many offences as you possibly can, the more the better, just don't misslabel garlic as apples, cos that's a serious offence.

5 posts in this time. :rolleyes:

Boring username

Boring username wrote: »

Look, I'll spell out the big secret for you. Stories like this are here to stay-this is the new normal, to borrow the phrase. We were outraged last week about some other violent scumbag. And the week before that. And all the weeks before that. We've been outraged for years. And still nothing gets done. And we'll be outraged next week about yet another toerag who beats the law yet again.

Nothing is ever going to change until the Irish public organizes themselves into co-ordinated, vocal groups that demand, not meekly ask, but straight up fcuking DEMAND that the state protects its citizens, and gives the public what they want. We saw it with the Gay rights movement. We saw it with the Divorce referendum. People power does work, but Christ it can be slow to effect change. But once it gets going, it snowballs quite fast. The Irish public need to organise a public strike, involving the trade unions, to bring attention to this nuisance. This is going to continue indefinitely until we do something about it.

So please, no more whining to Joe Duffy. No more moaning in the pub. No more pointless rants on facebook about crime. No more looking the other way. The only way this is going to get sorted is by targeting the people who control the levers of power in this country:
1. The legal system.
2. The media.
3. Your local TD.

So what is the solution? We've tried being nice. We've tried to be reasonable with the scummers. We've tried the kid gloves, the softly softly, the rehabilitation, the slap on the wrists, the final warning.

The reality is that Ireland needs a super prison that can hold 5,000 prisoners. Bring in a 3 strikes rule. The only way you'll see a reduction in crime is by denying criminals their liberty. And for those who say prison is only a criminal university? Yeah, it is. But the criminals can learn all you want doing 20 years behind bars.

So will we be here again next week, going round and round in circles? Or will we start to lobby for change?
Are you prepared to march to demand a safer Ireland?

We can all keep looking the other way, but sooner or later, it's going to be me and you that gets out teeth kicked out. Or worse.

Mother.

Of.

God.

Homosexuals, divorce and trade unions lobbed in too?

Sure why moan on Joe Duffy when a person could moan here?

When and where are you organising the protest? I won't be there, as I fundamentally disagree with the 3 strikes idea...funnily it's the libertarian in me that also supported gay rights and divorce...

An Claidheamh

tomwaterford wrote: »

In all fairness....why would someone on the Luas not have done something??

I agree, and yet the gardai then claim "you can be arrested for assault if you do".

Egginacup

suicide_circus wrote: »

Presumably because they didnt want a syringe imbedded in their throat.

The real question is why these two degenerates with over 50 convictions between them were at liberty at all.

I can guarantee you that if there was a burly Polish bricklayer on the Luas on his way to work he would have hammered 7 shades of shit out of these two rats. But locals just cower and think "don't get involved".

FluffyAngel

Odelay wrote: »

Hi, welcome to Ireland and our unique justice system.
For a get out of jail free card rack up as many offences as you possibly can, the more the better, just don't misslabel garlic as apples, cos that's a serious offence.

You forgot to add the vat fraud and millions that it cost Us taxpayers
Not to mention the foul tasting apples..

An Claidheamh

The driver acted disgracefully! Coward.

Hiding in his cabin, and yet the Luas staff are constantly complaining about abuse and yet they allow it happen to passengers.

If they spent a small bit more on security at every stop, there would be no more assaults, verbal abuse and people would actually buy tickets. Theyd actually make money.

Why don't the Luas staff demand it?

That lady should sue them. We all should until they get the picture.

Also, for the last 20 years ff, fg and lab have allowed this lawlessness to occur.

If somebody complains about being robbed and votes for them, it's their own fault.

The gardai are not a 21st century police force, the judges are worse than the British landlords for cruelty and the media say nothing apart from indulging in crime porn.

This needs to be an election issue.

Gardai on the street, mandatory sentences and elected judges. Simple as.

An Claidheamh

Egginacup wrote: »

I can guarantee you that if there was a burly Polish bricklayer on the Luas on his way to work he would have hammered 7 shades of shit out of these two rats. But locals just cower and think "don't get involved".

It works be great if she knew a few Polish fellas.

We have become too passive.

anncoates

Egginacup wrote: »

I can guarantee you that if there was a burly Polish bricklayer on the Luas on his way to work he would have hammered 7 shades of shit out of these two rats. But locals just cower and think "don't get involved".

Would an Irish lad not have danced a jig and thrown a pigeen at them?

foggy_lad

FluffyAngel wrote: »

You forgot to add the vat fraud and millions that it cost Us taxpayers
Not to mention the foul tasting apples..

Nearly turned me off Cider, got used to the taste though.

Ruu

Judge: "Now don't do it again, okay?"

This is Chief Wiggum level stuff. I'll let you free, if you promise not to commit any more crimes.

How Soon Is Now

I get the luas every day nearly the red line is a joke most of the time. When ever i hear any stories like this not surprised cause ive seen enough meself happen right in front of me.

Seen people robbed a few times only recently seen a girl get robbed then punched in the face your man just jumped off and legged it.

The same week i seen this someone smashed a window at inchicore and everyone had to get off and wait around.

Theres constantly things going on yet theres never constant security they just randomly turn up from time to time. Mostly when theres some event on!.

If there where constant security on the luas you wouldnt have half the trouble going on cause its mostly caused by ****ing cowardly scum that would leg it if they where confronted.

Eugene Norman

FluffyAngel wrote: »

You forgot to add the vat fraud and millions that it cost Us taxpayers
Not to mention the foul tasting apples..

It was import tax fraud. And the import tax was ludicrous.

foggy_lad

Ruu wrote: »

Judge: "Now don't do it again, okay?"

This is Chief Wiggum level stuff. I'll let you free, if you promise not to commit any more crimes.

Judge: "Please think of your child(ren), If you stay out of trouble and don't appear before me for a few weeks I will refer you to probation services who will send ye all off to Disneyland for a week".


The Judges live in fairy land! They don't realise that these awful cnuts and junkie bastards know more about the legal system and how to milk it than any Judge in the land!

frostyjacks

There's no deterrent, no fear. The vermin do what they like and take what they want. They know in the unlikely event that they're apprehended, all they have to do is give a sob story to a gullible judge and they'll be let go with a slap on the wrist. Jail them, sterilise them, take the kids off them. They'll only follow in their footsteps.

cajonlardo

An Claidheamh wrote: »

I agree, and yet the gardai then claim "you can be arrested for assault if you do".

I "got involved" and also called the Gardai. A single Garda arrived in record time and took off after the assailants. I warned him there were at least a dozen scum bags and he just said "Good, Good" before tearing away after them.

On topic, I know of a case where a young woman was beaten and robbed on the luas. After the robber legged it and the girl was left crying, no one helped her. No one offered her a lend of a phone after hers was robbed. No one asked if she needed a euro or 2 after her bag was taken. Nobody even asked if they could help her. So blame the junkies , blame the judge all you want but there is plenty more to blame.

moc moc a moc

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

ive seen enough meself happen right in front of me.
...
Seen people robbed a few times only recently seen a girl get robbed then punched in the face your man just jumped off and legged it.
...
mostly caused by ****ing cowardly scum that would leg it if they where confronted.

So confront them then. You stood there and watched people robbed and didn't do anything about it?? Big man on the internet though, complaining about "cowardly scum" while you stood idly by.

Boring username

Egginacup wrote: »

I can guarantee you that if there was a burly Polish bricklayer on the Luas on his way to work he would have hammered 7 shades of shit out of these two rats. But locals just cower and think "don't get involved".

You wouldn't be implying that the Polish are violent now would ya Father.... :pac:

SEPT 23 1989

they can smell the fear

foggy_lad

cajonlardo wrote: »

I "got involved" and also called the Gardai. A single Garda arrived in record time and took off after the assailants. I warned him there were at least a dozen scum bags and he just said "Like the hurling match I played on Sunday" before tearing away after them.

On topic, I know of a case where a young woman was beaten and robbed on the luas. After the robber legged it and the girl was left crying, no one helped her. No one offered her a lend of a phone after hers was robbed. No one asked if she needed a euro or 2 after her bag was taken. Nobody even asked if they could help her. So blame the junkies , blame the judge all you want but there is plenty more to blame.

Fixed the first part of your post:D what a hero of a Garda!

In on topic news, that is what happens when people see these scumbags getting slapped on the wrist over and again, they don't want to get involved because it will take much more out of their lives in terms of abuse, time in the station giving statements and time in court and also the worry that these same scumbags will have your address.

Duiske

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Sure, but more serious than assault? Really?
Scumbags like these should receive sentences which are among the highest in our court system. The longer they're kept away from decent people who don't deserve to tangle with them, the better.

I didn't say anything about either crime being more serious than the other. I was just pointing out the playing down of a muti-million euro VAT fraud as simply a case of mis-labeling food stuff. The rest of your post I agree with.

Eugene Norman

Duiske wrote: »

I didn't say anything about either crime being more serious than the other. I was just pointing out the playing down of a muti-million euro VAT fraud as simply a case of mis-labeling food stuff. The rest of your post I agree with.

Again. Nothing to do with VAT. Customs duty. In this case because of ludicrous duty of 232%

tawnyowl

tomwaterford wrote: »

In all fairness....why would someone on the Luas not have done something??

Probably fear of being injured by the assailants.

tawnyowl

frostyjacks wrote: »

There's no deterrent, no fear. The vermin do what they like and take what they want. They know in the unlikely event that they're apprehended, all they have to do is give a sob story to a gullible judge and they'll be let go with a slap on the wrist. Jail them, sterilise them, take the kids off them. They'll only follow in their footsteps.

"Sterilise them"? Jesus wept!

How Soon Is Now

moc moc a moc wrote: »

So confront them then. You stood there and watched people robbed and didn't do anything about it?? Big man on the internet though, complaining about "cowardly scum" while you stood idly by.

For starters I didn't stand there I was sitting away from it. Please tell me why I should get up and run to the other end of the luas to confront someone who's more then likely carrying a weapon or something similar?

It's not my job or place to have to do it that's why I mentioned security.

The fact is paying customers shouldn't have to sit and watch and wait for this crap to happen on there way in and out the city.

Once no one goes near me I ignore it but there's plenty of people who get hassled from it and it's not fair.

Security being there would solve alot of this.

Teyla Emmagan

That poor woman. Sounds like an utterly terrifying attack

An Claidheamh

An Claidheamh wrote: »

That lady should sue them. We all should until they get the picture.

Also, for the last 20 years ff, fg and lab have allowed this lawlessness to occur.

And we'd all lose fortunes as, of course, not intervening does not make one liable except in cases where neglect is a constituent part of the wrongdoing, as in neglect of children.

You also omitted SF...but I guess they really can't talk about lawlessness, murder, beatings etc without alienating some in their own front bench...

frostyjacks

tawnyowl wrote: »

"Sterilise them"? Jesus wept!

Why should they be allowed to bring kids into the world if they can't look after them? They only see them as a cash cow anyway.

lanos

An Claidheamh wrote: »

Also, for the last 20 years ff, fg and lab have allowed this lawlessness to occur.

Deleted User wrote: »

You also omitted SF

SF have never been in government in republic so it is perfectly ok to omit them
clumsy attempt I must say