Husband wants to be friends with 21 year old....

LegacyUser

...and he's 42. They met where he worked, he had kept his friendship with her a secret, I found out, I spoke to her, she's immature, she has a fiance, kept on telling me they are just friends, husband says the same...but....he's been confiding in her about our marriage problems...we're having murder over it...he has been deleting her texts and phone calls....

He wants to keep the friendship.......I've asked him why....he says shes easy talk to and a good listener......how the hell can a 21 year old have any experience or advice to give a man who has been with his wife for 15 years?

My god, am I being so stupid here?

CaraMay

You are not stupid and he is way off the Richter scale here. Why did you talk to her?

Is forbidding him to talk to her going to help. Sorry op but I would get a house that there's an affair going on and sadly he doesn't want it to stop. You need marriage counselling ASAP. If he's serious about his marriage he will drop all contact with his new friend

Flippyfloppy

Anonfornow wrote: »

.. how the hell can a 21 year old have any experience or advice to give a man who has been with his wife for 15 years?

Id say a 21 year old can give him the advice he wants to hear!

The secrecy and breaking of trust would be a deal breaker for me. How dare he?!

Neyite

He's full of sh!t.

Mentionitis, keeping her secret, deleting her texts and calls etc - a couple of red flags here that I wouldn't be too happy with. That's not what you do with a friend. He's either kidding himself or trying to kid you. Who deletes their mates texts?

It's grand that he wants to have a friend. But if its a friend that you need to keep secret from your spouse, then something is wrong. And if you are more determined to hold onto a fledgling friendship with someone despite knowing that it will be detrimental to your relationship, then its more than a friendship or might evolve into more than a friendship.

Did your marital problems start or get problematic around the same time as your husband met this woman? That's pretty typical of the beginning of an affair or emotional affair too.

What do you want the outcome to be OP? You can ask him to ditch this friend if you feel its damaging your relationship, if you want. And his answer will be very revealing to you.

Emme

Anonfornow wrote: »

...and he's 42. They met where he worked, he had kept his friendship with her a secret, I found out, I spoke to her..

Why did he keep his friendship with her secret? Does he keep his other work friendships secret? If not this would ring alarm bells with me.

Anonfornow wrote: »

she's immature, she has a fiance, kept on telling me they are just friends, husband says the same…

She is going to be singing from the same hymnsheet as your husband. If they are just friends why did they hide their friendship from you - you are the wife and she is a colleague.

Anonfornow wrote: »

but....he's been confiding in her about our marriage problems...we're having murder over it...he has been deleting her texts and phone calls....

This is not on. If they have nothing to hide why is he deleting her texts and phone calls? Why is he confiding in her about your marriage when they are just friends?

Anonfornow wrote: »

He wants to keep the friendship.......I've asked him why....he says shes easy talk to and a good listener......how the hell can a 21 year old have any experience or advice to give a man who has been with his wife for 15 years?

I would have no problem with him having a friendship with a 21 year old if he had told you about it from the start and he wasn't confiding in her about your marriage problems. I don't think she has enough life experience to advise him. He probably likes the flattery and attention more than anything else.

Anonfornow wrote: »

My god, am I being so stupid here?

I think you would be stupid not to be concerned by this when he kept it secret.

If you are having problems in your marriage your husband should be discussing them with you and a marriage counsellor and not a 21 year old colleague.

Would your husband be willing to go to marriage counselling and try to sort things out? I think you should do this as a matter of priority.

JillyQ

your not being stupid it sounds very like an affair. Either get him into counselling or get out and leave her to deal with him. Let him see what its like without you and let her deal with him.

power pants

Did you post about him before? I think I recall a very similar thread with the same ages and both meeting at work? doorman and bar staff? he thought she might be his daughter?

Apologies if I am mistaken

Neyite

Signs of an emotional affair:

According to Relate, what separates a normal friendship from an emotional affair is chiefly:

• Secrecy, either about the existence of the friendship or about the interactions that take place
• Physical chemistry and attraction
• That the 'friend' knows more about your relationship than you know about this friendship (or if you're the one having the emotional affair, that you know more about your 'friend's' relationship that his/her partner knows about your friendship)

Warning signs that your partner may be having an emotional affair

1. They withdraw from you, subtly.
2. They seem to be thinking about their friend a lot, and spend more time talking to him/her than to you - in the early days, they might even crop up in conversation quite a lot.
3. They says things like, "You really don't understand me at all"; subtext, "Only my friend can really understand me".
4. You seem to have less time on your own together than in the past.
5. They're coming home later than usual after work, and may be spending a lot of time on their phone, calling or texting.
6. You discover that your partner has spent a significant amount of time with this friend that they haven't told you about.

Five signs your partner might be having an affair

1. His work habits change - he's out late a lot more than usual, he goes to work at odd times, or he puts in a lot more time than he used to at his job.
2. He spends a lot more time than usual on his computer and/or mobile phone.
3. He says he needs some time to be by himself, to "work things out".
4. He seems to need a lot more privacy than previously - maybe he starts to use a password on the computer, or doesn't leave the mobile phone bill where you can see it.
5. His behaviour just doesn't add up. There's missing time he can't account for, spending that can't be explained, little discrepancies about where he was and who he was with.

LegacyUser

Yes power pants, same situation. it escalated since that last post. When they found out they werent father and daughter, there was no real need to continue their relationship. but they did. Behind my back. To the point that there was many texts per day going back and forward.

We tried counselling - didnt work.

he says he's sorry for keeping it from me but says he knew I would go mad and quote 'who the hell am I to tell him who he can and cant be friends with'

As I've said before, I have NO issues with him having female friends, young or old, but he, in my opinion, has developed an unhealthy friendship/infatuation maybe with this girl.

When I spoke to her, I told him. I saw from his phone then that he called her straight away - why? to see what she told me? to see if she disclosed anything? I'm so angry so apologies for all the ranting. I am trying to be cool about it but he even sent her a picture of our baby son last week!!!

kayos

Neyite wrote: »

Signs of an emotional affair:

Five signs your partner might be having an affair

1. His work habits change - he's out late a lot more than usual, he goes to work at odd times, or he puts in a lot more time than he used to at his job.
2. He spends a lot more time than usual on his computer and/or mobile phone.
3. He says he needs some time to be by himself, to "work things out".
4. He seems to need a lot more privacy than previously - maybe he starts to use a password on the computer, or doesn't leave the mobile phone bill where you can see it.
5. His behaviour just doesn't add up. There's missing time he can't account for, spending that can't be explained, little discrepancies about where he was and who he was with.

What about when its the wife having an affair. Jesus wept equal rights, equal opportunities but the man is always at fault....

Neyite

kayos wrote: »

What about when its the wife having an affair. Jesus wept equal rights, equal opportunities but the man is always at fault....

What about offering advice to the OP instead of nitpicking about pronouns on a thread?

freshpopcorn

If I'm being honest you sound a bit annoying.
You've an opinion that you people have no experience and won't be able to give advice or just listen. No wonder he wants someone else to talk to.
How do you know texts are being deleted? Are you nosing through his phone? This shows there's no trust in the relationship. It's also controlling.
Also if he was talking to a 21 year old guy would you accuse him of having an affair with him.
Your marriage sounds strained and ye need counselling.

OneOfThem

Anonfornow wrote: »

When I spoke to her, I told him. I saw from his phone then that he called her straight away - why? to see what she told me? to see if she disclosed anything?

To apologise to her for her having been confronted and interrogated by some woman twice her age she doesn't know? Presumably at work, as well?

LegacyUser

Ok fresh popcorn, I take your opinion.

Yes, I did nose around his bill because he has lied to me so many times over the last few months - I have asked him straight out, no accusations, no stress, no crying/ranting if he was in contact with her and every time he said no.

we have three kids, a home, a good life. I wasnt going to let him or her destroy everything I have worked for.

I understand he needs someone to talk to. I totally do. I go to counselling myself whenever I need support. I turn to family. My issue is the lies, the blatant, unneccesary lies.

I have done a lot of soul searching over the while, I have acknowledged that sometimes I can be a bit hot headed but...

I am a good person. I have supported him through so many different things over the years -and him me. We are/were best friends. I told him everything. We had so much fun together. So thats why all this secrecy is so hurtful to me. I feel like I dont really know him.

I spoke to her, Cara May, because basically I didnt believe a word he was telling me. And thats me being honest. And after speaking to her, I still dont think I know the full truth....

power pants

Do you know much about their friendship is it definitely a two way thing or is he doing all the texting and communicating and she is replying?

Ive worked on the door over the years and seen many doormen doing this, chasing after younger barstaff and giving them their number. The barstaff are happy to exchange but gets to the point they wished they didnt and dont really know how to get out the situation.

Having said that your situation sounds different with the initial possible a father/daughter situation.

Again that all comes down to if you believed that scenario in the first place?

Its all very unclear at the moment so I agree you have a right to be concerned but to what extent? Maybe go with your gut feeling if you cant get any further information

LegacyUser

Oneofthem - I appreciate your input to this. Yes, possibly thats why.

I dont know. He didnt really tell me.

As I've said before, its the lies. The secrecy. Deleting texts, lying to my face. Why? And you may think I'm annoying, and maybe you think I'm an overpowering wife etc etc etc but....

I would never invest so much of myself into another person without my husbands knowledge. He knows all my friends - male and female. Somewhere along the line, he decided that he wanted to keep her secret, keep her to himself.

LegacyUser

Power pants - I never actually verified the story but he told me his brother was involved when they were doing the paternity test thing so I'm not sure he would have said that to me if he had any inclination that I would ask the brother...

To be honest, I do believe the story. I do. Its a mad one I know but it was too elaborate, too detailed to be false. And he did come clean and tell me everyting the day he found out she wasnt his daugher so if there was an affair, I dont think he would have done that.

However, its his actions since then that, to me, are slightly inappropriate.

The communication is a too way thing. She is texting him 'call me' and stuff like that. I did think that maybe he was chasing her but I dont think so.After talking to her, it seems that she was investing as much in him as he was in her...

Its a bloody mess. He has told me he wants to stay together, that he loves me etc etc etc but I'm so hurt.

freshpopcorn

Sorry to the op if I sounded a bit harsh. I'm sure a lovely person.
I think a couples counsellor might help ye. A long with a bit of individual support.
If he's not having an affair. I feel there might be some issue there with him and he needs a fresh mind to talk to get support.

kayos

Neyite wrote: »

What about offering advice to the OP instead of nitpicking about pronouns on a thread?

Neyite wrote: »

He's full of sh!t.

How about you don't jump to conclusions.

Flippyfloppy

kayos wrote: »

What about when its the wife having an affair. Jesus wept equal rights, equal opportunities but the man is always at fault....

That would be relevant......if this thread was about a woman having affair. It's not though. Learn to live with it.

BreadnBuddha

Keeping track of his phonecalls and texts? I bet he has a total pain in the arse with that kind of crap. Does he know that? Are you that controlling? That suspicious? That petty?

Reads as though you're probably coming down super heavy on him, nitpicking and trying to make out he's to blame for problems that I can imagine predate anything to do with this woman. It's a bizarre situation.

She's a threat, absolutely. Not just her though. Any younger carefree woman will do. She's reminding your husband of his younger days when life wasn't all boxed in and exciting possibilities hadn't yet given way to routines, responsibilities and nagging. Take that to the bank.

Has he shagged her? Who knows. Does he want to? Maybe. Does he fantasise about it? Maybe. There's no definite here. The only thing she is for sure is, not you.

You spoke with her, yeah? How didnthat go? I bet she was mortified. You told him. I bet he was more pissed with you and embarassed for himself and the girl from work. He called her and no matter what anyone else says, you can be pretty damned sure he was calling to apologise for you acting like a super paranoid control freak wife.

Look at your own relationship with your husband. Don't blame others or question who your husband confides in. If you have a good relationship you've nothing to worry about and if you don't, well, who the hell else is he going to speak with? You? For what? Another argument? More controlling reaponses and reactions?

Just lay off the guy. Stop acting like he's cheating just because he can speak to a 21 year old amd instead start asking yourself WHY that is. Guaranteed it's not all his faultand there's plenty you could be doing to help, without acting like a bitch.

All the bleeding hearts here, counselling this, emotional affair that. That's all well and good for Opera or Dr. Phil but won't help a single bit in the real life you live.

You used to be his friend. He's forgotten that or you've given him a reason to not want to be your friend. Or vice versa. Simple as that. Go and fix it or give up. It's one or the other.

LegacyUser

Breadnbuddaha - no, its not who I am. I dont do that sort of stuff on a regular basis. But I thought he was having an affair and it drove me demented. So, yes, I did stuff that I'm not proud of but it showed that, in a way, I was right. Ok, its not an 'affair' but why should I not feel hurt? Why should I not be angry? Y

You can bet your bottom dollar that if it was the other way around, he would NOT be happy. Believe me.

I do agree with you - I need to fix this. But so does he. He needs to be honest with me and himself becauase up until now, he hasnt. And you can blame me if you want - god knows I've taken so much of the blame up until now - I know in my heart and soul that he could have told me EVERYTHING and I would have had no issues with anything.

In relation to talking to her, I have spoken to her before so me ringing me wasnt out of the blue. But the last time I spoke to her, I was under the impression that her and my husband were going to draw a line under what had happened and move on.

LegacyUser

Oh and one last thing Bread....I'm not a bitch. You don't know me.

I just hope nobody ever hurts you bad and you go looking for advice.

CaraMay

What's next op if the counselling hasn't worked? He's still lying

whatdoicare

Listen OP, no matter what started this, I didn't see the previous thread with the daughter father thing, so I don't know what that's about, that 21 year old has no business texting a 42 year old grown married man, especially one who's marriage is rocky. None. What the heck would a 21 year old girl have to talk about with him anyway.

Your husband needs to grow up and cop on. Hes quite obviously trying to relive his youthful days and is probably loving the attention from a young one but if he really cared about your marriage he would have cut contact the second he saw you were upset by it. That's what he should have done, without a thought, I mean, shes just a "friend" and you're his WIFE but he didn't and still hasn't and you have to really ask why.

TBH If I was that girl and even if it was totally innocent, if a mans wife actually took the time to ring me to ask if I was with her husband, I would be running a mile. I wouldn't be still answering texts only to say, here, leave me alone.

Neyite

Anonfornow wrote: »

Oh and one last thing Bread....I'm not a bitch. You don't know me.

I just hope nobody ever hurts you bad and you go looking for advice.

You sound lovely and patient and trying your best to save your marriage. And right now with a baby to look after, you really don't need this crap from the person who is supposed to be your support.

It's a Boards thing where posters think that checking a phone in the face of lies is A Most Heinous Offence. Posters get absolutely slated for it on here. But the fact is, that if someone was continually getting lies and stonewalling and you have little kids and a relationship nearly two decades long involved, you need to find out the truth which your partner is withholding, I don't see what other option you can have. You came clean to your partner as soon as you saw his phone, and its not something you did lightly. Let yourself off the hook here.

Do you have real life support? A good friend, a family member who you can talk to?

DeltaWhite

Nah, I totally agree with you OP. Would not be happy. And you being called a bitch was waaaay harsh. WhatdoIcare posted great response imo..

I just would not feel comfortable with all that crap. Hiding it aswell... Just seem off to me.

Dial Hard

BreadnBuddha wrote: »

All the bleeding hearts here, counselling this, emotional affair that. That's all well and good for Opera or Dr. Phil but won't help a single bit in the real life you live.

As someone whose marriage ended due to an emotional affair with a colleague that escalated into a real one, I can assure you that they can and do happen in "real life".

And I hate to say it, OP, but this situation with your husband and his colleague has all the hallmarks of an emotional affair, or at least the beginnings of one. You need to nip this in the bud now and ignore any suggestions that doing this somehow makes you controlling or a nag. You are perfectly entitled to take steps to save your marriage.

Honestly, some of the attitudes in here really grind my gears at times. Some people actually seem to think that she should wait until they actually sleep with eachother before she's "allowed" to react.

BreadnBuddha

You see OP, there's the biggest problem with 'help' here.

Damage, emotional scars and baggage. Most people will give you their own poisoned chalice to drink from. Bitter and still hurt, full of warnings and woe.

I didn't call you a bitch, but I'm not dressing this up in cuddles and dross to make you feel better. Your husband is a gob****e. We're all gob****es. That doesn't mean you have to suffer it but for your own sakes, don't mirror it either.

Let the big tool see that you're not there to punish him. Because you're not. Let him know you're hurt and a bit confused by all of this nonsense. Not a guilt trip, no anger, no drama. Just honesty.

Tell him you want to be together and it would be good if he kept in mind you're not just his wife, the nag, the ball and chain....that before all that, you're the same woman he once wanted to share everything with, that nothing had really changed....

It's tough. I love my wife. I never cheat and never would. But it's not always easy to be as close as we can be from one day to the next. Life's full of trials and drama and I'm just trying to say, cool the jets and let him realise he's being a dick without you having to rub his nose in it.

And ignore all the people here trying to hype it up. Hurt feelings, resentment and anger don't help anyone.

OK - I didn't read the previous thread, but they believed that they were father and daughter? Is it not possible that some form of bond existed between them and he sees her as a confidant, rather than anything notorious, he's just looking for someone to talk to. It just seems .. odd .. to me that someone can go from seeing someone as a potential daughter figure to someone much more ..

The Princess Bride

Hi OP.
First thing you need to do is go somewhere quiet and away from family home and have a chat with your husband.
You're not on same wavelength as each other- he obviously feels there are issues in your relationship he needs to discuss with someone; you seem to feel all is well within the marriage.

I've seen this too often, where one spouse says all is wonderful and the other is unhappy, perhaps not being heard.Communication is lacking in so many relationships, I've been there myself- sometimes, people don't want to admit that there is a problem.
Meanwhile, the problem just gets bigger.

I read your other thread- perhaps he now finds it difficult to step away from her, seeing as he once thought she might be his daughter?
Or maybe you're right, maybe there is something illicit about this friendship.
Call his bluff, invite her and her fiancé over for coffee.If all is above board and their relationship is purely platonic, then you'll soon have your answer.

pookie82

Neyite wrote: »

You sound lovely and patient and trying your best to save your marriage. And right now with a baby to look after, you really don't need this crap from the person who is supposed to be your support.

It's a Boards thing where posters think that checking a phone in the face of lies is A Most Heinous Offence. Posters get absolutely slated for it on here. But the fact is, that if someone was continually getting lies and stonewalling and you have little kids and a relationship nearly two decades long involved, you need to find out the truth which your partner is withholding, I don't see what other option you can have. You came clean to your partner as soon as you saw his phone, and its not something you did lightly. Let yourself off the hook here.

Do you have real life support? A good friend, a family member who you can talk to?

Couldn't agree more with this post. Please don't listen to the usual "I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU READ HIS PHONE YOU'RE NOW THE EVIL ONE!" brigade on here, the same lines are thrashed out again and again at anyone who has had a lying partner and who has been forced to go the same route to find the truth.

There's no way on earth you were wrong to get to the bottom of this any which way you could. If you had an honest partner in the first place you wouldn't have been forced to snoop. You have a long marriage, kids, probably a mortgage, a whole life together at stake here, and a lying husband on top of it. To sit blithely by and let the truth evade you based only on his denials would be foolhardy. You can only try to rebuild trust when you know the full extent of what's gone on and if it's forgivable or not, and you weren't going to find that from him, clearly.

It's unfortunate that once you do dig around yourself to find the truth the tables are turned to convey you as some sort of paranoid ball and chain - but that will always be the opinion of some people, no matter how justified it turned out to be - just ignore it.

I do think that when you are forced to check a phone/email etc. things are rocky at best, it's not a road you should ever have to go down. But you don't need me to tell you what's broken here. And you're not the one who broke it.

He's really not making this easy on himself. Does he not see a correlation between wanting to make things work between you guys and being honest about her, or better still, cutting contact and concentrating on his marriage? Is his outlook really "just lay off being a nag and let me call/text this 21 year old and confide our deepest problems to her and let's just trot along and keep our marriage but let me have this friendship on the side with someone who could be my daughter and run to her when we have arguments?"

Because to think that that's sustainable is a laughing matter.

Neyite

BreadnBuddha wrote: »

Let the big tool see that you're not there to punish him. Because you're not. Let him know you're hurt and a bit confused by all of this nonsense. Not a guilt trip, no anger, no drama. Just honesty.

Tell him you want to be together and it would be good if he kept in mind you're not just his wife, the nag, the ball and chain....that before all that, you're the same woman he once wanted to share everything with, that nothing had really changed.

Trouble is that the OP is being honest, its the husband who hasn't been.

Your advice would be good advice, if this friendship was something that was recent, but it isn't. This is the OP's second thread on it. The first one was some months ago - like this one, there were secrets and secret meetings and texts and calls and the husband was being evasive. That's when she did all that you suggested. She was blue in the face trying to talk to him to remind him what he was risking, and trying counselling to reconnect and renew their relationship.

It transpires that this woman had thought that the husband might be her bio dad,and they seemed to hit it off and until the tests came back to confirm he wasn't her dad there was contact between them. This all happened during the very early stages of the OP having her own baby and really didn't need all this. Her husband lied to her for ages over it and only reluctantly came clean when he was caught bang to rights.

The end result was that the husband agreed to ease off contact with the woman and attend counselling to smooth over the recent rockiness to their marriage. The OP has been blue in the face talking reasonably to him.

Then some months on, the OP finds out that they are in contact in secret again - maybe always have been. So he lied to her again. It's seems that despite the risks it might cause to the relationship, husband is hell bent on pursuing contact with someone he has bonded with.

So, while I do agree that sitting down and being honest is a good thing and should be the first port of call in any relationship issue, it takes honesty from two people in order for it to go anywhere. And if, months and months down the line, you are still getting lied to, its only natural that patience has its limits and you try something another tack.

LegacyUser

Thank you all for your input - the good the bad and the ugly!

In a nutshell, I am devastated and broken. My confidence and self esteem has been shattered by all of this. We spoke again last night and basically he has said he will stop contacting her but might ring her to say goodbye and get closure. ...... closure from what exactly? ? But I can't control his actions or mind. I wouldn't want to.

He still sees no problem in talking to her but has admitted it was wrong to keep it from me. However he comes out with some great lines like 'you haven't been easy to live with'. Just to let you know that I have a touch of pnd after our baby so this line really hurt me,. While he was off having this secret I was struggling with my own internal battle. .... He says I have it all wrong and that all it ever was was a friendship. He said he never thought of her any other way......
My problem now is do I believe him? Short answer is no. Do I continue to spy on him? God knows I don't but I've nearly become obsessed with it now

I have a counsellor I speak to and I do have a close friend I confide in. But to be honest I'm all over the place. He has allowed this girl to be privy to our problems he has allowed her to believe that she is special to him......

How do I move on? Please if anyone has any magic potions I will take them all!

santana75

Anonfornow wrote: »

He wants to keep the friendship.......I've asked him why....he says shes easy talk to and a good listener......how the hell can a 21 year old have any experience or advice to give a man who has been with his wife for 15 years?

My god, am I being so stupid here?

This is the crux of the matter. Shes easy to talk to and she listens to him. Who wouldnt want someone like that in their life? I would doubt that you would have any problem if this was a 21 year old man. The worst thing you could do is start giving him grief over who he considers his friends, you cant control people like that, and its only gonna end badly for your relationship if you try to force him to give up being friends with someone he gets along with.

freshpopcorn

anonfornow wrote: »

In a nutshell, I am devastated and broken. My confidence and self esteem has been shattered by all of this. We spoke again last night and basically he has said he will stop contacting her but might ring her to say goodbye and get closure. ...... closure from what exactly? ? But I can't control his actions or mind. I wouldn't want to.

He still sees no problem in talking to her but has admitted it was wrong to keep it from me. However he comes out with some great lines like 'you haven't been easy to live with'. Just to let you know that I have a touch of pnd after our baby so this line really hurt me,. While he was off having this secret I was struggling with my own internal battle. .... He says I have it all wrong and that all it ever was was a friendship. He said he never thought of her any other way......
My problem now is do I believe him? Short answer is no. Do I continue to spy on him? God knows I don't but I've nearly become obsessed with it now

I have a counsellor I speak to and I do have a close friend I confide in. But to be honest I'm all over the place. He has allowed this girl to be privy to our problems he has allowed her to believe that she is special to him......

How do I move on? Please if anyone has any magic potions I will take them all!

If I had to end a friendship with someone who helped me and listened to me. I would feel the need to ring them and say goodbye if the friendship could no longer go on because if I didn't I'd feel ungrateful.
Maybe you have been a nightmare to live with. Find out why?
Well if your not going to believe him the relationship has no hope.
He did admit keeping the friendship was wrong.
You've a friend and counsellor who you have to talk to. Who does he have to talk to. Does he trust you with you friend be it male or female. Is there a sexual relationship going on and are you telling your friend yere problems. Is he okay with this.

Neyite

anonfornow wrote: »

My problem now is do I believe him? Short answer is no. Do I continue to spy on him? God knows I don't but I've nearly become obsessed with it now

I have a counsellor I speak to and I do have a close friend I confide in. But to be honest I'm all over the place. He has allowed this girl to be privy to our problems he has allowed her to believe that she is special to him......

How do I move on? Please if anyone has any magic potions I will take them all!

Should you believe him? Well, if you want to save your relationship, then probably yes, you should give him the benefit of the doubt.

At this stage, its not about how innocent his feeling may or may not have been about her, its about the secrets and lies. It's that that has caused the damage, not their friendship.

Should you snoop? Ideally no, but what I would suggest is that he needs to offer transparency in return. If you both agree that you are allowed to ask him for his phone and view it in his presence, but that you'll work on respecting his privacy while he works on restoring your trust, would that be a worthwhile compromise to suggest? It will be a work in progress for both of you though. I can only speak for myself, but if I'd rocked my partner's trust, I'd be happy to prove that I'm being honest until he was ready to believe in me again.

With regard to closure, well, again, I'd speak for myself here, but I'd be of the mind that any 'closure' (odd word to use for a friendship!) he needs to do should be on speaker in your presence. After all, she's privy to your personal marriage details courtesy of him, so you hearing their final conversation is fair game IMO. If he wants to give her privacy when he didn't give that to you, well, I'd be wondering why she gets special treatment.

This is a tough one.

If the OP has been tough to live with, then the guy could have been struggling too. Yet he probably knew that he couldn't talk to his wife about the issues they're having and then along comes this person, who thought they were father and daughter, so obviously a bond was formed.

Through this bond and this person, they found someone that they can finally talk to. Would it hurt you as much if it were a woman the same age? What about a 21 year old guy?

Regarding the deletion of messages, sure, it's not nice, but with the PND and obviously the guy finding it difficult, he probably realized that if she were to find those messages, she'd freak out more than if she knew they were being deleted.

It's not nice finding out someone has been discussing your personal issues with someone you don't know, but sometimes it's necessary and, when it boils down to it, this is exactly what the OP is doing themselves.

I've often found that when you start getting worried about what other people are saying is when you need to have a long hard look at yourself and the relationship, because you can't (and shouldn't) stop them from talking.

junction12

If I'm being perfectly honest you do seem like a bit of a nightmare.
I say there's a lot of stress at home and he needed someone to talk to. I know he should have told you but he probably knew you'd react like this.
You've your counsellor and your friend who finds out all yere issues and who does he have. Just because she's 21 you feel she has no experience with problems. You've no nothing about her. What about this friend you have. Did he ask you what was going on? Did he accuse you of cheating with him/her?
Sorry for the way that comes across.

paperclip2

From reading the thread I think its clear that the OP tried again and again to talk to her husband in an honest and meaningful way. She hasn't tried to minimise how difficult she's been to live with and ffs if she's just had a baby and is recovering from PND then cutting her a little relationship slack is not exactly a big ask.
There also seems to be an assumption from some that its fine for the husband to talk to this girl because he 'knew' that the OP would be a nightmare to talk to about it.

B****cks.
Marriage means talking over the rough stuff, dealing with crap as a couple. If I do something that I know will piss off or upset my husband my first responsibility is to be honest with him, not leg it away to some random young lad who probably has their own crap to deal with.

The problem is that her husband didn't want to talk honestly to his wife so if he wont engage with her she's just supposed to suck it up? He can tell his 21 year old all about their marriage but when the OP speaks to a counsellor or even a friend (who may know both the OP and her husband well enough to give more objective advice than a random 21 year old) somehow that's the same thing and she's being equally disloyal? Ah here now. If the husband needed to get some perspective and outside support surely it would have been more appropriate for him to talk it over with his own counsellor or one of his own old friends, and not actually with the main source of stress in the relationship.

There would have been none of this drama if the husband had been honest from day one. If he had sat the OP down the day the girl made contact and told her the full truth then and kept her in the loop from the start then chances are this could have been sorted very quickly. But he chose not to.
He chose to keep it secret, he chose to lie about it. Why? If its innocent why the need for secrecy, why the duplicity? Worse, he's kept going with the secrets and lies, effectively pulling the rug out from under the OP's attempts to trust him.

Realistically I don't think there would be many people of either gender who could truly say they would be ok with a situation where they had been repeatedly misled and deliberately lied to. Why should the OP be any different. But she wants to work on the marriage, on sorting out the issues and fair play to her, however she cant do it on her won. He has to take responsibility for his actions and behaviour and the effects of these too otherwise there's no point.

LegacyUser

Lots of food for thought here. My mind is CRAVING objectivity, rational thinking, calmness, openness but unfortunately is so difficult to have the above at the moment.

My close friend is female - I do not have close male friends. Wouldn't really want to to be honest. My counsellor is male but he's a professional and I know my boundaries, as does he. My husband knows my counsellor is male. Also coming on here anonymously is not the same as having a secret male friend that I confide in and hide from my husband. If any of you on here is 21 and male, then pm me (joke, joke, joke!!)

Listen, it all boils down to this for me - he has lied time and time again to me. If I have been difficult to live with, it was triggered because of his initial lies about her. So I am not going to take full blame for how I have been. He hasn't been exactly Mr Amazing to live with either. My pnd was only really diagnosed about a month ago, in the midst of all this madness but I had been struggling since before Christmas. I may have been a bit weepy but my back was never turned on my husband or my marriage.

I know the age thing has been mentioned and some are a bit put out that I feel a 21 year old girl would not be good to talk to - Maybe she is the best listener in the world BUT she does not have the life experience of a 15 year relationship behind her. As I've said before, she comes across as quite naive and immature, even for a 21 year old. Thats what makes this so confusing and strange for me.

Anyways, I am just back from my counsellor so my mind is calm enough. He has made some great suggestions - he feels we need to go back marriage counselling, he has suggested that I reccommend to my husband that we do up some sort of verbal/written contract of when we BOTH need to do to make things better. But first and foremost, he has suggested that I forgive my husband. Just forgive him. He's f-ed up. He's made some very very stupid decisions over the last while.

The big thing for me now is this - I have to stop looking at his bills. I just have to because I am going insane doing it. I like the idea of him calling her in front of me, I might suggest this. And for all you who think that sounds controlling, f-eck it, its too late for all that. If he really wanted to keep this girl in his life as a friend, I would have been her friend too but I feel the whole relationship/scenario is tainted by all the lies.....how could we all sit around laughing and joking over a coffee when I know she knows the problems in our marriage? And, the funny thing (well not funny really) is that SHE is one of the problems in our marriage. Would make for a funny sitcom..........

Payton

By your last post about your husband being her father and now this.....I think you need ask yourself a couple of questions.
1. Do you trust him, his behaviour, his secrecy knowing the harm it's doing to the family?
2. Can you see yourself and your child-ren going it alone without him?

OneOfThem

Anonfornow wrote:

Listen, it all boils down to this for me - he has lied time and time again to me. If I have been difficult to live with, it was triggered because of his initial lies about her.

In your first thread, a big part of what seemed to upset you was that he was discussing issues in your relationship with her. So it's probably not true to say this all started due to him lying about this girl. It sounds like his friendship with her, as well as his need to hide it, is a symptom of problems in your marriage, rather than problems in your marriage being a symptom of his friendship.

junction12

My only bug bear with you is when you say what life experiences would a 21 year have.
She'd could have way more terrible life experiences than you and she might have a better understanding at life than you. You seem a bit judgemental.
Go for couselling and good luck.

LegacyUser

Your right oneofthem. As I've said, I am driven nearly demented with all of this. I am up, I am down. I am calm, I am crazy. I am paranoid, I am rational. It is not very easy to live like this while trying to hold down a job, be a mother, a wife, take of house etc.

Life isnt always rosey. I know that. I really do. But I just wish he had told me about her from the beginning. Its the lies. Thats what it comes down to. And the fact she is female. I am not going to lie about that and if this was a 21 year old male, I would have no issues about it. I will be honest about that.

I have felt like the 'other woman' in my marriage these past few months, the third wheel. And that is so bloody hard for me. MY marriage, not hers.

Payton - its not that easy, going it alone. We have three kids, mortgage, bills etc etc. We also have a great 15 year relationship behind us. Good foundations.

Wouldnt time travel be great?

LegacyUser

Junction12 - I take on board your comment. As I have said, I have spoken to her and this is the impression I get from her. She contradicts herself, for example, telling me that her and her fiance trust each other 100% but in the next breath telling me that her fiance wont let her talk to men when their out and she doesnt let her fiance have female friends......so take from that what you will. She also knows the hurt I've been going through but STILL wont tell my husband to leave her be, she is encouraging him. So, I will stand by my assessment that she is immature and has no life experience. I trust my instincts 100%. I am not judging her without prior knowledge. I have based my opinion on speaking to her.

Payton

I can understand what your saying but reality is kicking in here.
You have your husband secretly (as you know it) texting...contact...going behind your back and just being arrogant with regards to you or his family. This other girl is I think there for a purpose and will tell you what you want to hear, she's speaking from both sides of her mouth....Both are stringing you along. You really need to wise up here and take control back. Honestly I dont think you'll ever trust him again if things were to go back to "normal" as from what you've been told by both of them that there's nothing in it with them. At the moment they control the situation.......

LegacyUser

What are peoples opinions on meeting her with my husband?

Emme

Payton wrote: »

By your last post about your husband being her father and now this.....I think you need ask yourself a couple of questions.
1. Do you trust him, his behaviour, his secrecy knowing the harm it's doing to the family?
2. Can you see yourself and your child-ren going it alone without him?

Why should the OP go it alone if she thinks the marriage is worth saving?

Payton

Emme wrote: »

Why should the OP go it alone if she thinks the marriage is worth saving?

The OP is the only one that thinks the marriage is worth saving. Her husband doesn't by his actions and words.
Nobody who marries ever envisages them separating but when one half of the couple cannot see the damage that they are doing to the marriage/family life/emotional stress/secrecy/trust/respect of the other half Your fighting a losing battle.
The OP has repeatedly asked her husband to desist from contact with this other person but yet sees no harm....the 21 yr old is clearly telling the OP what she wants to hear about her fiancee etc.
The one who'll walk away unscathed is the 21 yr old leaving what seems to be a broken mess.

DeltaWhite

Payton wrote: »

The one who'll walk away unscathed is the 21 yr old leaving what seems to be a broken mess.

Payton really hit the nail on the head there.


OP, I have to say I really feel for you, wish I had more advice to help you. Usually with these type of threads I always try put myself in the persons shoes, and it doesn't feel good to me when I imagine myself in your shoes. Trying to juggle 3 children, a house and a job. And PND on top of it all. I understand if your husband keeps saying it's all innocent etc. But I would be seriously pissed off that he was running to her talking about your marriage. That is not what a married adult is supposed to do.

I'm kind of leaning towards meeting her, but then what would you hope to gain from meeting her?