More Irish driving oddities: parking against traffic flow

Iwannahurl

So there you are, driving or cycling on the left along a public road, as required by law and custom.

The vehicle ahead of you turns right, or you go round a corner, and all of a sudden you see a motorist driving towards you on the wrong side of the road.

Would you:

(a) scream in fear, break out in an instant cold sweat and come to a screeching halt?
(b) exclaim angrily and quickly call the Garda Siochana to report the motorist for dangerous driving?
(c) do nothing, except roll your eyes wistfully, perhaps -- this is Ireland after all and the motorist is only parking their car against the flow of traffic just like everybody else?

You answered a or b? Did you come down in the last shower? The Irish Rules of the Road, God bless 'em, merely tell us to park in the direction of traffic flow "where possible".

What a marvellous catch-all get-out clause for swerving across the road and parking at the first handy spot we see. Never mind that we have to drive against traffic to get into it. Who cares that we often can't see properly when leaving the spot, so that we have to pull out into the traffic flow just to get a clear view of the road. Shur isn't it grand?

TTBOMK parking against the flow of traffic is illegal in South Africa, Japan, New Zealand, and at least some parts of Australia, Canada and the USA.

I don't know about anywhere else, but I know people from other countries who laugh in derision and amazement that it's not just tolerated in Ireland but completely legal and utterly normal.

Of course that's a minority view, right?

the dark phantom

Totally agree. It adds to the general slowness of traffic.

macplaxton

I know in the UK (passed my test there) in the highway code parking bit says: R239 "do not park facing against the traffic flow", which being a "do not" is only a strong suggestion. The time it becomes a "MUST NOT", which is when it's illegal to it is at night time R248.

So I don't really have a problem with it. There are far worse examples of driving to worry about.

bladespin

Ticketable offence in parts of the US, was warned against it when I was there.

How does that car move away? The lane is separate with an island

alias no.9

[Deleted User] wrote: »

How does that car move away? The lane is separate with an island

Wrong way round the roundabout silly, be grand!

slimjimmc

Deleted User wrote: »

How does that car move away? The lane is separate with an island

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reversing_gear

Carlos Orange

Deleted User wrote: »

How does that car move away? The lane is separate with an island

Simples. It reverses.

Indricotherium

Was a woman jailed for manslaughter a while ago for parking on the wrong side at night and leaving the lights on?

Another car came around the corner and drove into a wall, because of it? This is ringing a bell for me?

BorneTobyWilde

Get 3 trucks side by side through there in all fairness.

Atlantic Dawn

Them being parked on the footpath is more dangerous, some person with a pram will have to venture onto the road risking them being wiped out by oncoming traffic around the corner not seeing them.

Special Circumstances

Silly pixie heads!

psinno

psinno wrote: »

Simples. It reverses.

That must also be how it got there

bladebrew

Indricotherium wrote: »

Was a woman jailed for manslaughter a while ago for parking on the wrong side at night and leaving the lights on?

Another car came around the corner and drove into a wall, because of it? This is ringing a bell for me?

I know that happened in West cork, but I don't know the outcome, not sure if it is the case you are talking about?

I have to admit, parking against the flow of traffic is a non issue in my opinion. Rarely/never seen it actually cause issue.

In relation to the picture posted, parking on the path is the issue that wrecks my head. I actually don't mind someone on the path, if they're leaving space, but if you can't get a buggy or wheelchair by, then I think it's one of the few times I'd agree with someone keying a car (not that I've ever seen it done, but if I had a wheelchair / buggy and came upon that situation, I think I'd hit the rage level required to actually damage someone's car).

Hachiko

that would get either clamped or taken away in England I am pretty sure. There is a right way and wrong way to park a car, that is the latter.

Uncle Ben

Special Circumstances wrote: »

Silly pixie heads!

Yep, I was in Celle in Germany in the mid 90s in my Renault 21, loved that car, and parked contra flow as per the OP.

It wasn't long before the green uniformed polizei knocked and told the little pixie head to park his car like the rest of the natives.

The next day I hopped onto an autobahn and drove into Holland with no speed limits.
And to think that they call us mad!

markpb

Deleted User wrote: »

I have to admit, parking against the flow of traffic is a non issue in my opinion. Rarely/never seen it actually cause issue.

The reason I'd never do it is because your visibility is severely impaired when you're pulling out. Most of the time, it'll be fine. One time you'll pull out and won't see the cyclist or pedestrian coming towards you.

BMJD

the most retarded thing about the car in that pic (notwithstanding their path-blocking) is that they could've just gone around the roundabout and parked facing the correct way if they weren't lazy sacks of sh1te

Cookie_Monster

You get fined for it here in NZ, you must park in the direction of traffic.

It's one of those little rules that just seems to make things better for all, easy to enforce, easy to comply with and once people are used to it there is zero issue.
It was really weird driving around Dublin last month and noticing the wrong way cars again

Iwannahurl

Iwannahurl wrote: »

https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/397835/354618.jpg

Deleted User wrote: »

How does that car move away? The lane is separate with an island

psinno wrote: »

Simples. It reverses.

Absolutely. Reversing off a roundabout along a footpath is also normal in Ireland.

markpb wrote: »

The reason I'd never do it is because your visibility is severely impaired when you're pulling out. Most of the time, it'll be fine. One time you'll pull out and won't see the cyclist or pedestrian coming towards you.

It's crap driving, pure and simple.

Thing is, in Ireland it's state-sanctioned crap driving, due to lack of legislation.

BMJD wrote: »

the most retarded thing about the car in that pic (notwithstanding their path-blocking) is that they could've just gone around the roundabout and parked facing the correct way if they weren't lazy sacks of sh1te

Do you think parking with the flow of traffic, in the exact same spot, is OK?

bucketybuck

BMJD wrote: »

the most retarded thing about the car in that pic (notwithstanding their path-blocking) is that they could've just gone around the roundabout and parked facing the correct way if they weren't lazy sacks of sh1te

Pretty sure blocking the footpath is still not the correct way to park.

markpb

Iwannahurl wrote: »

It's crap driving, pure and simple.

Thing is, in Ireland it's state-sanctioned crap driving, due to lack of legislation.

I reckon the Guardai could charge someone with careless driving or driving without due care and attention if they wanted. Of course we know how they feel about motorist bothering when it comes to parking ;-)

galljga1

On two occasions on the same roundabout (Kilcock exit, M4) I met a car (different cars) going the wrong way, well, actually stopped in a bit of a panic.

galljga1

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Do you think parking with the flow of traffic, in the exact same spot, is OK?

Personally, I think it is a crap place to park regardless which direction you are facing. However, is it illegal? There are two lanes at that spot, no solid white line in the middle, no yellow lines at the side.

dgt

I see problems when the car is stupidly parked like that. I see problems when visibility is poor. I can't see the point in built up areas/towns etc

However at my house I park in such a manner that I can see traffic flow. Also as I am in the country where I am off the road with feck all traffic I shall continue to park outside my home as I wish, either with the flow or against it

What really baffles me is parking against the flow on a 1 way street...

9935452

Uncle Ben wrote: »

Yep, I was in Celle in Germany in the mid 90s in my Renault 21, loved that car, and parked contra flow as per the OP.

It wasn't long before the green uniformed polizei knocked and told the little pixie head to park his car like the rest of the natives.

The next day I hopped onto an autobahn and drove into Holland with no speed limits.
And to think that they call us mad!

To be fair to the germans and the autobahn , its a lot more regulated than our motorways , they wouldnt tolerate the bad driving we have here , hogging the overtaking lane doing 80k , continuously moving between lanes with out indicating and so on

Iwannahurl

galljga1 wrote: »

Personally, I think it is a crap place to park regardless which direction you are facing. However, is it illegal? There are two lanes at that spot, no solid white line in the middle, no yellow lines at the side.

The RoTR says you must not park on a bend, or within 5 metres of a junction (unless parking spaces are clearly marked).

The bend issue is subjective, perhaps, but I would argue that the car pictured is not just parked less than 5 metres from a junction, it is parked in the junction. The reason being that the junction consists of a roundabout, splitter islands, directional lanes and associated road markings.

Parking on the footpath is unambiguously illegal, but that's entirely separate from the issue of 'wrong-way' parking.

Indricotherium

dgt wrote: »

I see problems when the car is stupidly parked like that. I see problems when visibility is poor. I can't see the point in built up areas/towns etc

However at my house I park in such a manner that I can see traffic flow. Also as I am in the country where I am off the road with feck all traffic I shall continue to park outside my home as I wish, either with the flow or against it

What really baffles me is parking against the flow on a 1 way street...

Narrow country road I'd the worst place to do this. Someone driving too fast at night .... Could end up going down the left hand side of the parked car.

munchkin_utd

9935452 wrote: »

To be fair to the germans and the autobahn , its a lot more regulated than our motorways , they wouldnt tolerate the bad driving we have here , hogging the overtaking lane doing 80k , continuously moving between lanes with out indicating and so on

the "continuously moving between lanes with out indicating and so on" seems to be legally permitted in Germany if you are driving a BMW - which also seem to have an exemption from having functional indicators installed at all, as you almost never see them indicate.

Or it might also be that BMWs come with a special cert that you actually own the road and/or are exempt from road traffic laws in general that only apply to other motorists.
Or maybe the BMW driving courses teach you to be a c*nt when driving. I dont know exactly.

But indeed, parking the wrong way seemed to me like a normal thing to be at before coming to Germany, but its actually a sensible rule to have motorists parked in a manner that they can get out of the parking space later as easily and safely and as unobtrusively (to the flow of traffic) as possible.

galljga1

Iwannahurl wrote: »

The RoTR says you must not park on a bend, or within 5 metres of a junction (unless parking spaces are clearly marked).

The bend issue is subjective, perhaps, but I would argue that the car pictured is not just parked less than 5 metres from a junction, it is parked in the junction. The reason being that the junction consists of a roundabout, splitter islands, directional lanes and associated road markings.

Parking on the footpath is unambiguously illegal, but that's entirely separate from the issue of 'wrong-way' parking.

Yeah, the second I posted, I knew someone would mention the footpath which as you say is illegal. And you are probably correct on the junction/splitter islands etc. There should also be an "asshole" law for people who behave like this.

Iwannahurl

munchkin_utd wrote: »

its actually a sensible rule to have motorists parked in a manner that they can get out of the parking space later as easily and safely and as unobtrusively (to the flow of traffic) as possible.

Because the driver is on the right, they have to move their vehicle well out into the traffic lane in order to be able to see.

It's commonplace to have wrong-way drivers pull out into traffic while trying to exit a parking space. I regard that as a nuisance at best, whether I'm driving or cycling.

Another weird driving behaviour I see over and over again is motorists crossing to the opposite side of the road at a T-junction and then driving along on the right to access a parking space against the flow of traffic. It's utterly daft, imo, and yet they see absolutely nothing wrong with it.

The attached pic gives some idea of what I'm talking about, purely for the purposes of illustration. I have no idea whether the car parked against the flow of traffic actually came from the side road.



This is a prime spot in Salthill for wrong-way parking. There are often three cars parked there, sometimes well into the oncoming lane, which is separated by a splitter island. It takes determined muppetry to park like that.

CianRyan

Indricotherium wrote: »

Narrow country road I'd the worst place to do this. Someone driving too fast at night .... Could end up going down the left hand side of the parked car.

I know the road he's on about and I can confirm, it's 100% safe.

BMJD

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Do you think parking with the flow of traffic, in the exact same spot, is OK?

of course not, I was merely highlighting the utterly needless going-the-wrong-way-ness of that driver in getting those extra couple of centimeters closer to their destination. I see that kind of thing all the time, people doing 7 point turns and holding up an entire street because they are too stupid/lazy to go around the roundabout 10 meters up the road - kind of thing

dgt

Indricotherium wrote: »

Narrow country road I'd the worst place to do this. Someone driving too fast at night .... Could end up going down the left hand side of the parked car.

Herein lies a problem. My car is parked outside my house. It is a lovely space ideal for a vehicle a lot bigger than my car which happens to be beside the road. As I have pointed out, there is very clear visibility in either direction.

There have never been complaints about it. The gardai drive by now and again, they never come into me. I can't see the issue...?

Why on earth should I park my car arseways because someone comes cringing to me its against the traffic flow? And what difference does it make if its pointing the "correct" way? Its still outside my home! I don't see why I should inconviene myself for no other reason other than pedantry

This is a classic case of jumping to conclusions without actually seeing the space in question. If we want to look at possible dangers on country roads, how about watercuts overgrown with weeds, a wheel in the ditch overgrown or that silly badger who wanders out infront of you at the last second. At least with a parked car one can see it and manouvere round it accordingly

I shouldn't have to be pointing out the obvious, let alone about how I parked my own car outside my own home

Iwannahurl

That car in question is parked very close to a roundabout, on a footpath and on a bend so its not a good place to park.

However parking against the flow in normal legal parking spaces I have no issue with it and if I see a parking space on the opposite side of the road I'm certainly not going to drive away to turn and come back to find it gone. Just use your head and be observant and you can get back out of the space if you are able to drive in the first place.

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Another weird driving behaviour I see over and over again is motorists crossing to the opposite side of the road at a T-junction and then driving along on the right to access a parking space against the flow of traffic. It's utterly daft, imo, and yet they see absolutely nothing wrong with it.

If there is no traffic coming the other way I see no issue with the above.

Indricotherium

dgt wrote: »

Herein lies a problem. My car is parked outside my house. It is a lovely space ideal for a vehicle a lot bigger than my car which happens to be beside the road. As I have pointed out, there is very clear visibility in either direction.

There have never been complaints about it. The gardai drive by now and again, they never come into me. I can't see the issue...?

Why on earth should I park my car arseways because someone comes cringing to me its against the traffic flow? And what difference does it make if its pointing the "correct" way? Its still outside my home! I don't see why I should inconviene myself for no other reason other than pedantry

This is a classic case of jumping to conclusions without actually seeing the space in question. If we want to look at possible dangers on country roads, how about watercuts overgrown with weeds, a wheel in the ditch overgrown or that silly badger who wanders out infront of you at the last second. At least with a parked car one can see it and manouvere round it accordingly

I shouldn't have to be pointing out the obvious, let alone about how I parked my own car outside my own home

I think it's slightly more pedantic to think that because you deem the spot outside your home to be safe, that parking against the flow of traffic on country roads, is generally safe.

Many country roads have poor corner visibility, are narrow, and many people speed on them. Not to mention drink driving. A car parked facing traffic on the wrong side of a country road, is an invitation for someone with poor reflexes, or drunk, in poor visibility to drive down the left of it accidentally.

markpb

Isabel Millions Cranium wrote: »

Just use your head and be observant and you can get back out of the space if you are able to drive in the first place.

If you're parked facing the wrong way and a car is parked in front of you, how can you "be observant" if you can't see anything? You'll be sitting on the wrong side of the car, no forward view and no mirrors that you can use to see around you.

The reality is that you'll pull out into traffic, blind to incoming cyclists and hope that either nothing is coming or traffic will stop to let you out. Inevitably traffic will be forced to let you out because your snout will be sticking out into the road.

dgt

Indricotherium wrote: »

I think it's slightly more pedantic to think that because you deem the spot outside your home to be safe, that parking against the flow of traffic on country roads, is generally safe.

Many country roads have poor corner visibility, are narrow, and many people speed on them. Not to mention drink driving. A car parked facing traffic on the wrong side of a country road, is an invitation for someone with poor reflexes, or drunk, in poor visibility to drive down the left of it accidentally.

My point is, I park my car facing one way, its dangerous. I park it the other way, its safe. Its still in the exact same spot, just facing the other way. This does not compute with me. Does this make sense to you? This is referring to my own spot, not other spaces that are a danger.

Besides if its that much of a hazard why are there spaces to pull up? If its to let traffic pass why is someones space infront of the house used in this manner? Not that I agree with most of them, which are silly but in instances like my own spot what is the problem?

Should I tell the postman he can't park there or more importantly park facing the wrong way for the few seconds?

On odd occasions the road does become very busy, such as the Slane concert. I have yet to have my car damaged. What is the problem?

I have seen first hand bins that have been crashed into. Surely thats more of a concern to have such an object beside the road which is poorly visible at night to some? What if they meet another car beside a bin? Chances are they'll clip/hit it

Find my exact quote where I said all parking on country roads is safe, where I've generalised country road parking. That clearly isn't what I said.

The best part is I'll still keep parking in my space, regardless of this discussion, as I have done for years, without issue

Del2005

Iwannahurl wrote: »

So there you are, driving or cycling on the left along a public road, as required by law and custom.

The vehicle ahead of you turns right, or you go round a corner, and all of a sudden you see a motorist driving towards you on the wrong side of the road.

Would you:

(a) scream in fear, break out in an instant cold sweat and come to a screeching halt?
(b) exclaim angrily and quickly call the Garda Siochana to report the motorist for dangerous driving?
(c) do nothing, except roll your eyes wistfully, perhaps -- this is Ireland after all and the motorist is only parking their car against the flow of traffic just like everybody else?

You answered a or b? Did you come down in the last shower? The Irish Rules of the Road, God bless 'em, merely tell us to park in the direction of traffic flow "where possible".

What a marvellous catch-all get-out clause for swerving across the road and parking at the first handy spot we see. Never mind that we have to drive against traffic to get into it. Who cares that we often can't see properly when leaving the spot, so that we have to pull out into the traffic flow just to get a clear view of the road. Shur isn't it grand?

TTBOMK parking against the flow of traffic is illegal in South Africa, Japan, New Zealand, and at least some parts of Australia, Canada and the USA.

I don't know about anywhere else, but I know people from other countries who laugh in derision and amazement that it's not just tolerated in Ireland but completely legal and utterly normal.

Of course that's a minority view, right?

To be fair our being able to park against the flow of traffic is much more logical, and safe, than the continental law where all vehicles coming from the minor road have right of way unless there's a diamond on the main road or the American requirement for a sobriety test before they can breathalyse you.

You can look at any countries laws and find things we find completely stupid which they allow and vice versa.

Indricotherium

dgt wrote: »

My point is, I park my car facing one way, its dangerous. I park it the other way, its safe. Its still in the exact same spot, just facing the other way. This does not compute with me.

It's the difference between seeing a car late in low visibility, and thinking it's traveling towards you, and the correct move is to dive left, or thinking that it is traveling away from you and the correct moves are to stop, or dive right.

Indricotherium

Indricotherium wrote: »

A car parked facing traffic on the wrong side of a country road, is an invitation for someone with poor reflexes, or drunk, in poor visibility to drive down the left of it accidentally.

If the car is in off the road then how are they going to make that mistake? Also if visibility is poor how are they going to tell the front from the back of the car?

markpb wrote: »

If you're parked facing the wrong way and a car is parked in front of you, how can you "be observant" if you can't see anything? You'll be sitting on the wrong side of the car, no forward view and no mirrors that you can use to see around you.

Well for a start you survey the situation before sitting into the car and see how traffic is panning out. You can edge out very slowly as not to cause an obstruction to something that doesn't see you and then someone will let you out. You can see up trough the windows of the cars in front of you. You have a passenger to keep an eye for you. That's a few ways.

Its obviously not ideal but its a crazy thing to have a ban on. People reversing out from their drives is far worse and far more common.

challengemaster

dgt wrote: »

My point is, I park my car facing one way, its dangerous. I park it the other way, its safe. Its still in the exact same spot, just facing the other way. This does not compute with me. Does this make sense to you?

This is exactly my thoughts on contra-flow parking (which I've never even actually thought about before this thread)

If you're that bad of a driver that seeing a parked car, clearly parked at the kerb, will cause you to dart off the road and crash into a hedge, wall, or other vehicle - You shouldn't be driving to start with.

Indricotherium

challengemaster wrote: »

If you're that bad of a driver that seeing a parked car, clearly parked at the kerb, will cause you to dart off the road and crash into a hedge, wall, or other vehicle - You shouldn't be driving to start with.

100% Correct and not disputing this.

dgt

Indricotherium wrote: »

It's the difference between seeing a car late in low visibility, and thinking it's traveling towards you, and the correct move is to dive left, or thinking that it is traveling away from you and the correct moves are to stop, or dive right.

In all seriousness if a car is in the distance/shortly coming up and one can't tell what side of the road its on, let alone if its switched on or off/moving or stationary, they really shouldn't be on the road.

That, to me, is far more dangerous than a car parked off the road. They could hit that person walking home from/to the pub or that child chasing the football across the road

Or cars with blown bulbs/1 working headlight

Personally I think those are a whole separate issue that would spawn a whole different debate

Iwannahurl

Isabel Millions Cranium wrote: »

If there is no traffic coming the other way I see no issue with the above.

We could extend that logic to claim that there is no issue with driving on the right unless there's oncoming traffic.

I'm sure German visitors would love to see road signs with a similar message, instead of the standard Links Fahren ones.

challengemaster

challengemaster wrote: »

This is exactly my thoughts on contra-flow parking (which I've never even actually thought about before this thread)

.

Same here I can't believe its actually a "thing".

Iwannahurl wrote: »

We could extend that logic to claim that there is no issue with driving on the right unless there's oncoming traffic.

I'm sure German visitors would love to see road signs with a similar message, instead of the standard Links Fahren ones.

Yes because driving for 50 yards on the wrong side of the road is the same as driving all the time on the right and only moving left for oncoming traffic.

Whats the difference between what you describe and overtaking? Both involve short spells of time on the wrong side of the road when it is safe to do so. Should we ban overtaking?

savagethegoat

I got given out to by a passerby in the Isle of Man for backing into a diagonal parking bay..... when I looked every other car was in nose first. Also got given out to for going into the right hand entrance at a petrol station....

savagethegoat

savagethegoat wrote: »

I got given out to by a passerby in the Isle of Man for backing into a diagonal parking bay..... when I looked every other car was in nose first.

I assume you pointed out everyone else was wrong.

keithclancy

Crazy.

markpb

Isabel Millions Cranium wrote: »

Well for a start you survey the situation before sitting into the car and see how traffic is panning out. You can edge out very slowly as not to cause an obstruction to something that doesn't see you and then someone will let you out. You can see up trough the windows of the cars in front of you. You have a passenger to keep an eye for you. That's a few ways.

Its obviously not ideal but its a crazy thing to have a ban on. People reversing out from their drives is far worse and far more common.

That's basically what I said. You wing it, driving out with zero visibility and hoping that you don't hit anyone that you can't see.