Dublin Bus 7/59/111 Changes

crushproof

Just saw this posted on Facebook.

The 7 bus is to stop serving Sallynoggin and Rochestown Avenue completely and instead go to Dún Laoghaire via the Sallyglen Road, leaving residents of Sallynoggin with no direct bus to the city centre and no link to St. Vincent's hospital.
Less no. 7's will serve Loughlinstown Park, instead half of all 7 buses will go to Cherrywood.
The 111 is to be completely axed.
The 59 is to be re routed and is proposed to serve Loughlinstown hospital (one positive).

As far as I can tell the 45A will still serve Sallynoggin?

Journey times on the 7 will massively increase with this change, no more turning and twisting through Sallynoggin. The writing has been on the wall for the 111 for a long time unfortunately.
59 seems to be constantly chopping and changing, it'll soon be serving the entire DLRCC at this rate.
There will be uproar, as always with efficient changes like this. But I'm sure the elderly are capable of switching buses in Dun Laoghaire. A more frequent 45A would cover the loss of the 111.

In regards to Cherrywood, the population is growing there and declining in Loughlinstown, so only natural to increase services to Cherrywood.

uch

Whatever about the 111, but redirecting the 7 away from the Noggin is ridiculous

OssianSmyth

I've uploaded the draft plan here:

http://www.ossiansmyth.ie/dublin-bus-proposes-route-changes-for-dun-laoghaire-sallynoggin-and-loughlinstown/

Fratton Fred

If the 8 goes, will they get rid of the ridiculous bus lane past park Pointe?

The 8am no 8 is very busy with school kids, but I'm not sure how busy the others are.

More busses to cherrywood seems pretty sensible, they just need to sort out the ridiculous positioning of the stop now and finally, we may have a joined up luas/bus service.

Stephen15

Fratton Fred wrote: »

The 8am no 8 is very busy with school kids, but I'm not sure how busy the others are.

I believe that the 8am 8 will be kept during the school term.

LXFlyer

uch wrote: »

Whatever about the 111, but redirecting the 7 away from the Noggin is ridiculous

It will only be a short walk away on Sallyglen Road.


The 45a will be re-routed to serve the current 7 route through Sallynoggin.


It is crazy having a major route such as the 7 going through a housing estate - it needs to be on the main road.

Larbre34

I can see both sides of the 7 Bus argument.

It will be just a 4 minute walk from the crescent shops in the Noggin to the new 7 bus stop on Sallyglen Road, or just 11 minutes from the furthest point of the existing 7 route at Pearse Villas. However, thats not counting elderly people or mobility impaired.

The 45A change will mean people in the Noggin can reconnect with the 7 on Glenageary Hill or in Dun Laoghaire, or get to the DART. But that probably means having to spend more money, two fares potentially instead of one. A leap card will probably reduce that, and in this case the elderly and mobility impaired will have travel passes anyway. It comes down to a frequency / timing issue.

Overall though, if they really want people to have a reliable, direct and reasonably swift alternative to travelling by car into the City or to the DART, changes like these will have to be enacted.

crushproof

Larbre34 wrote: »

The 45A change will mean people in the Noggin can reconnect with the 7 on Glenageary Hill or in Dun Laoghaire, or get to the DART. But that probably means having to spend more money, two fares potentially instead of one. A leap card will probably reduce that, and in this case the elderly and mobility impaired will have travel passes anyway. It comes down to a frequency / timing issue.

That's it, I'm sure they figured that the vast majority who would have get the 45A and then switch would be OAP/mobility impaired, and hence would have free travel anyway.
Hoping DB push ahead with the plan, unfortunately the moronic comments on facebook about "how dare they cut bus services to local schools" (for Holy Child it's the same distance from the current bus stop to the new stop on the new road).
People before Profit have jumped on board and you know who is right in there for a meeting next week. I've fired off an email to DB and few TD's, hopefully my voice will be heard above the loud mouths.

LXFlyer

Larbre34 wrote: »

I can see both sides of the 7 Bus argument.

It will be just a 4 minute walk from the crescent shops in the Noggin to the new 7 bus stop on Sallyglen Road, or just 11 minutes from the furthest point of the existing 7 route at Pearse Villas. However, thats not counting elderly people or mobility impaired.

The 45A change will mean people in the Noggin can reconnect with the 7 on Glenageary Hill or in Dun Laoghaire, or get to the DART. But that probably means having to spend more money, two fares potentially instead of one. A leap card will probably reduce that, and in this case the elderly and mobility impaired will have travel passes anyway. It comes down to a frequency / timing issue.

Overall though, if they really want people to have a reliable, direct and reasonably swift alternative to travelling by car into the City or to the DART, changes like these will have to be enacted.

If they can't walk to the Sallyglen Road then that would imply to me that they have free travel already, which means that they won't be charged twice.

Larbre34

Yeah I must say the nuclear outrage on Facebook, although typical, doesnt help anyone. Its just a reflex 'no' to any change without looking at the bigger picture, like keeping fares down and trying to move the most people in the fastest time, while making sure nobody is denied a predictable service.

In any case, it has never done any good, these network direct changes have come in eventually regardless. There were people sitting in the road at the end of Kill Avenue on the odd Saturday preventing the 46A and 75 from going up that road, and it did no good getting the routes back on to Monkstown Farm - with the result that its a very decent service overall.

patrickbrophy18

I'm very disappointed at the proposal to scrap the 8 as I do think Dalkey needs a semi-frequent service into town albeit, not one which more or less mirrors the DART. What I’m talking about is a proper 7 day a week, hourly service operating along the Stillorgan Road covering UCD, Donnybrook and St. Stephen’s Green. Now is the perfect time to merge the 7d and 8 for such a purpose. A possible extension on the Dalkey end up to Killiney Village could add more loadings by picking up the slack of the re-routed 59 service.

To better explain this, it could start off in Killiney Village and then work its way down Killiney Road. At the entrance to Killiney Hill, it would take a left turn down Saval Park Road. It would then turn right onto Barnhill Avenue covering the entire stretch. Then, another right would be taken onto Barnhill Road. From Dalkey, it could cover Ulverton/Hyde Road->Castlepark Road->Barnhill Road->Upper Glenageary Road->Kill Avenue->Abbey Road->Monkstown Ringroad->Stillorgan Village and then on into town.

On the topic of the 7, I heavily welcome the straightening out of it as it has the potential to shave up to 20 minutes off the overall journey length. However, I do feel bad for *those with moderate to severe mobility impairments who for sure will lose out in the process. Yes, the 45A will take up the slack in these areas but, the frequency needs to be increased even a small amount to better facilitate connectivity with the 7. It's a difficult one to solve given the multitude of roads in that area and the routing permutations that go with it. For *their sake, I hope they manage to workout something more attractive than what's on offer even if it's only a local bus service.

Anyway, these are just suggestions. What do you think?

SimonMaher

Whatever about the rights and wrongs of this particular batch of changes, I don't think it does the debate any favours to refer to peoples honestly held views as "moronic". As it happens, I think that the majority of the proposed changes are positive as long as they lead to an improvement in the often ropey service in the area currently.

You have to expect though that people impacted by the changes will react negatively to them and their views should be listened to. Once again, as it happens I think diverting the 45A through the area is a reasonable compromise but I can see too why residents will need reassurance with regard to interchange etc.

From personal experience, my worry wouldn't be the 2 fares (which has been dealt with above) but more that people are left standing in Dun Laoghaire or wherever waiting to interchange on to a 7 that currently is a frequent no-show or RTPI phantom! If the proposed changes make all the services in the area more reliable then I think that will put the minds of many at ease.

Simon

Stephen15

An idea would would be to run a Dun Laoghaire area circular service. Run it every 20 or 30 minutes on weekdays, have it go Dun Laoghaire Station-Glenageary Hill- Sallynoggin-Honeypark-Monkstown Farm-Monkstown Avenue and back to Dun Laoghaire. Have a €1 flat fare on leap card or €1.50 cash. It wouldn't require too much resources. It would only need one bus probably a mini bus and a driver this could even be run by the council rather than DB as they have made loads of money lately.

crushproof

Stephen15 wrote: »

An idea would would be to run a Dun Laoghaire area circular service. Run it every 20 or 30 minutes on weekdays, have it go Dun Laoghaire Station-Glenageary Hill- Sallynoggin-Honeypark-Monkstown Farm-Monkstown Avenue and back to Dun Laoghaire. Have a €1 flat fare on leap card or €1.50 cash. It wouldn't require too much resources. It would only need one bus probably a mini bus and a driver this could even be run by the council rather than DB as they have made loads of money lately.

To be fair Stephen, that's thinking outside the box. Doesn't go down too well in Ireland. And especially charging only a €1!!! :pac:

As Simon mentioned, a more reliable 7 is all that is required. And a slightly more frequent 45A would quell any fears of long waits etc.
It's quite funny to see the rational conversation here vs. the panic and moral outrage on Facebook.

schemingbohemia

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

I'm very disappointed at the proposal to scrap the 8 as I do think Dalkey needs a semi-frequent service into town albeit, not one which more or less mirrors the DART. What I’m talking about is a proper 7 day a week, hourly service operating along the Stillorgan Road covering UCD, Donnybrook and St. Stephen’s Green. Now is the perfect time to merge the 7d and 8 for such a purpose. A possible extension on the Dalkey end up to Killiney Village could add more loadings by picking up the slack of the re-routed 59 service.

To better explain this, it could start off in Killiney Village and then work its way down Killiney Road. At the entrance to Killiney Hill, it would take a left turn down Saval Park Road. It would then turn right onto Barnhill Avenue covering the entire stretch. Then, another right would be taken onto Barnhill Road. From Dalkey, it could cover Ulverton/Hyde Road->Castlepark Road->Barnhill Road->Upper Glenageary Road->Kill Avenue->Abbey Road->Monkstown Ringroad->Stillorgan Village and then on into town.

On the topic of the 7, I heavily welcome the straightening out of it as it has the potential to shave up to 20 minutes off the overall journey length. However, I do feel bad for *those with moderate to severe mobility impairments who for sure will lose out in the process. Yes, the 45A will take up the slack in these areas but, the frequency needs to be increased even a small amount to better facilitate connectivity with the 7. It's a difficult one to solve given the multitude of roads in that area and the routing permutations that go with it. For *their sake, I hope they manage to workout something more attractive than what's on offer even if it's only a local bus service.

Anyway, these are just suggestions. What do you think?

Why does Dalkey need a town service when it already has the DART? If someone wants to get to the Stillorgan Road they can take a now quicker 59 and then switch to a 46a or 75. Really there are more important issues than keeping the 8 which (apart from the 8am one) doesn't carry many passengers until Monkstown.

LXFlyer

schemingbohemia wrote: »

Why does Dalkey need a town service when it already has the DART? If someone wants to get to the Stillorgan Road they can take a now quicker 59 and then switch to a 46a or 75. Really there are more important issues than keeping the 8 which (apart from the 8am one) doesn't carry many passengers until Monkstown.

I would entirely agree.

The N11 doesn't need another route - the 39a, 46a and 145 cover that corridor sufficiently. Adding another route would just be unnecessary duplication.

The 7b and 7d provide additional capacity at peak times from the Dalkey, Glenageary and Sallynoggin areas when it is most needed.

Outside of the peak periods demand for such a service as outlined by the previous poster would be very low indeed.

Anyone wanting to go to the N11 can use the 7, 45a or 59 and connect into the 46a, availing of LEAP90 discount or using their prepaid pass.

There are far more pressing demands for new services than this.

ted1

schemingbohemia wrote: »

Why does Dalkey need a town service when it already has the DART? If someone wants to get to the Stillorgan Road they can take a now quicker 59 and then switch to a 46a or 75. Really there are more important issues than keeping the 8 which (apart from the 8am one) doesn't carry many passengers until Monkstown.

exactly, and if you want to go to a different part of town, you can link up with busses along the way. e.g Blackrock has several busses outside the station

Having a bus to town from dalkey with take away from the DART and thus reduce its viability. What they need to do is to bring the cost inline with the busses.

patrickbrophy18

schemingbohemia wrote: »

Why does Dalkey need a town service when it already has the DART?

What I was saying is that Dalkey needs a bus service which covers the N11. To date, any attempt at this has been half-assed to put it mildly. Moreover, such a service would need to operate into town to more central locations such as St. Stephen's Green as opposed to Westland Row (Pearse Street) where the DART currently operates to and which is more or less next to Dublin 4.

schemingbohemia wrote: »

If someone wants to get to the Stillorgan Road they can take a now quicker 59 and then switch to a 46a or 75.

Sadly, these types of journey's are time consuming given the likelihood of waiting around between changes. I need to re-emphasize that if we are to take cars off the roads, we need to give would-be commuters a much better incentive to make a switch to public transport. It takes me twice as long to get up to Stillorgan or UCD by public transport as it would if I drove. Forget all of this bull**** of documents like the DMURS forcing the performance of car journey's down "inconveniencing drivers" to make it "faster :rolleyes:" by public transport. There needs to be a far greater incentive than that and one that is faster i.e. a step up from the driving experience.

Unfortunately, skepticism such as the last few posts coupled with the lack of effort to provide a decent service is just fodder for continuing to drive. In the private sector, people have to work for the customers business by being courteous, listening to their needs and generally putting customers first. In the public sector, a lot of political meddling and poor work ethic results in the state owned public transport operators earning a reputation of chronic unreliability and self serving.

schemingbohemia wrote: »

Keeping the 8 which (apart from the 8am one) doesn't carry many passengers until Monkstown.

That is why I would suggest a complete reroute via the upper road i.e N11. It would give it a new purpose. Plus, UCD and Stillorgan are obvious locations which everywhere within the borough should have direct connections (i.e. no changes) to. I have to re-iterate that this comment is another one where viability is based on poor loadings of a skeleton route. Unfortunately, a route like the 8 is bound to fail if there is such a limited number of departures per day. Frequency sells, plain and simple.

Amalgam

The new stops for the 7 near the Killiney Shopping Center aren't going to be as convenient. That will have some effect on traders and people with mobility issues, having to cross over to the right side of the road for the shops.

Bah humbug. I can't visualise where they might have the stops, as the run up to the roundabout is constricted by walls on either side and a rather small grass verge. Drivers tend to barrel along that stretch of road at some speed as well.

Stephen15

I wonder will they still retain a few 59's a day in Kiliney Village

crushproof

Amalgam wrote: »

The new stops for the 7 near the Killiney Shopping Center aren't going to be as convenient. That will have some effect on traders and people with mobility issues, having to cross over to the right side of the road for the shops.

Bah humbug. I can't visualise where they might have the stops, as the run up to the roundabout is constricted by walls on either side and a rather small grass verge. Drivers tend to barrel along that stretch of road at some speed as well.

It's not that difficult to knock in the wall and create a couple of new bus stops and pedestrian lights. Really not much of a difference between the current stops and where the new ones would be located.
If anything, the new stops would be closer to SuperValu.

Awaaf

Stephen15 wrote: »

An idea would would be to run a Dun Laoghaire area circular service. Run it every 20 or 30 minutes on weekdays, have it go Dun Laoghaire Station-Glenageary Hill- Sallynoggin-Honeypark-Monkstown Farm-Monkstown Avenue and back to Dun Laoghaire. Have a €1 flat fare on leap card or €1.50 cash. It wouldn't require too much resources. It would only need one bus probably a mini bus and a driver this could even be run by the council rather than DB as they have made loads of money lately.

I always felt an outer DL service would be a good idea but the one I have in mind would shuttle between Dalkey and Blackrock via Killiney SC and Bakers Corner (maybe via Pottery Road). It could be circular but the Blackrock-DL corridor is well served as is. The corridor (midway between DART/7 Route and N11 Busses/Luas) has a gap in my opinion.

crushproof

Well a big throng of folk out today on the streets of DL, lead by bandwangoner RBB as usual.
I fear they are going to get their way, with no real progress on streamlining bus services in the area. Ridiculous that the most loudest and moronic voices as usual get their say.

Stephen15

crushproof wrote: »

Well a big throng of folk out today on the streets of DL, lead by bandwangoner RBB as usual.
I fear they are going to get their way, with no real progress on streamlining bus services in the area. Ridiculous that the most loudest and moronic voices as usual get their say.

Well they didnt their say when they were rerouting the 46a out of Monkstown Farm

ted1

crushproof wrote: »

Well a big throng of folk out today on the streets of DL, lead by bandwangoner RBB as usual.
I fear they are going to get their way, with no real progress on streamlining bus services in the area. Ridiculous that the most loudest and moronic voices as usual get their say.

At this stage their just white noise , same gang different day.
Apparently the weather is to change tomorrow , so they'll be out again

OssianSmyth

Dublin Bus will hold an open information day in Dún Laoghaire Shopping Centre on Friday 31 July 2015 between 1200 and 1600 hours.

Larbre34

Very significant number of older people on low incomes in Sallynoggin. Dublin Bus claim they want to improve journey times for commuters.

If they were being clever about it they should introduce more AM and PM 7X services using Sallyglen Road and leave the 10-4pm 7 and 45a services largely unchanged.

Streamlining services is all very well, but whats the point if it continually moves services away from customers, especially vulnerable ones.

patrickbrophy18

Larbre34 wrote: »

Very significant number of older people on low incomes in Sallynoggin. Dublin Bus claim they want to improve journey times for commuters.

If they were being clever about it they should introduce more AM and PM 7X services using Sallyglen Road and leave the 10-4pm 7 and 45a services largely unchanged.

Taking the 7 out of Sallynoggin isn't the end of the world given that the Sallyglen Road is well less then half a mile at it's most farthest point from current 7 stops. The way Richard Boyd Barrett is putting it, you'd swear Sallynoggin and the Sallyglen Road were miles apart. The proposed 45A is a fair compromise. The slight drawback is that Somerton and the north-western edge of Sallynoggin Road Upper will lose the 45A. However, it's not like the less then fifth of a mile walk is much to ask. It takes five minutes.

Another welcomed change is taking the bus out of Newtown Avenue. The installation of traffic calming and a cycle lane has narrowed that road significantly. The way I see it, if people want traffic calming on their roads, they can forget buses taking longer by continuing to serve them. I remember being on the 8 on this stretch numerous times and it was a nightmare taking 10-15 extra minutes. Besides, long-haul routes like the 7 should take the most direct path to their destinations.

Larbre34 wrote: »

Streamlining services is all very well, but whats the point if it continually moves services away from customers, especially vulnerable ones.

Anyone who I've talked to about using the 7 instead of taking the car has stated that the 7 takes too long to get anywhere. Shaving 20 minutes might actually reverse this trend.

ted1

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

Besides, long-haul routes like the 7 should take the most direct path to their destinations.

Busses are not long haul. There destinations are not from A to B. they are from A to Z with numerous destinations along the way.
they don't just serve the terminating points.

Chinasea

Larbre34 wrote: »

Very significant number of older people on low incomes in Sallynoggin.
Streamlining services is all very well, but whats the point if it continually moves services away from customers, especially vulnerable ones.

I am ALL for people using public transport (as opposed to cars) but, imo, there are way too many people and their 'companions' entitled to free travel. We have one of the highest ageing population in Europe = free travel, the highest amount of people per capita in receipt of disability = free travel, so how is this all supposed to be afforded. Perhaps if they were to pay some charge all be it nominal this could help towards supplying said services.

LXFlyer

ted1 wrote: »

Busses are not long haul. There destinations are not from A to B. they are from A to Z with numerous destinations along the way.
they don't just serve the terminating points.

Of course not, but the 7 is the main route on the Rock Road QBC (in the same way that the 46a is the main route on the Stillorgan QBC).

It's not a local route as such. When there is a direct alternative (in this case Sallyglen Road) main core routes such as the 7 should take it, provided an alternative local route exists to serve the heart of communities.

Given that there are access points to the stops on Sallyglen Road from Sallynoggin, and the 45a will still serve current 7 route, I'd suggest that the points between A and Z are still being served.

LXFlyer

Larbre34 wrote: »

Very significant number of older people on low incomes in Sallynoggin. Dublin Bus claim they want to improve journey times for commuters.

If they were being clever about it they should introduce more AM and PM 7X services using Sallyglen Road and leave the 10-4pm 7 and 45a services largely unchanged.

Streamlining services is all very well, but whats the point if it continually moves services away from customers, especially vulnerable ones.

But Sallynoggin will still have a bus service - the 45a.

Are you suggesting that this area is any different from other areas of the city where the main routes have been diverted out of local areas onto the main roads?

punisher5112

Its a pity they aren't pushing for time saving opportunities in the city centre.

Passenger education is badly needed along with cutting dwelling times.

I find one of the biggest issues is buggies and the huge reluctance to actually fold them.

So much can and could be done.
Have better traffic light controls as to give a clear run for buses etc.

Larbre34

Chinasea wrote: »

I am ALL for people using public transport (as opposed to cars) but, imo, there are way too many people and their 'companions' entitled to free travel. We have one of the highest ageing population in Europe = free travel, the highest amount of people per capita in receipt of disability = free travel, so how is this all supposed to be afforded. Perhaps if they were to pay some charge all be it nominal this could help towards supplying said services.

That's one point of view. There is the debate about welfare recipients and companions across the categories, but I'm glad FT was protected for older people, its a great enabler and it offsets other potential problems with mental health and vulnerability. Even a nominal charge to people who use a couple of buses a day and earn a low level on the non-contributory pension, would be enough to deter them. We might have a high aging population, but many of them broke their backs contributing in their productive years and as a society we are judged by how we treat them.

LXFlyer

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/News-Centre/General-News/Dun-Laoghaire-Sallynoggin-and-Loughlinstown-Network-Review/

Dun Laoghaire, Sallynoggin and Loughlinstown Network Review

Published on Monday, July 27, 2015

Dublin Bus, in conjunction with the National Transport Authority, proposes to improve the bus network in Dún Laoghaire, Sallynoggin and Loughlinstown. The proposed changes will deliver a service which is more direct and frequent, with improved connections to Luas and DART. This will provide access to new destinations across Dublin.

Dublin Bus carried out research and analysis into the current travel patterns of customers on the following routes:

Routes 7, 7b, 7c, 7d, 8, 45a, 59, 63 and 111
This research found that, with changes to traffic infrastructure and customer travelling requirements, a redesign of bus services is required to continue to provide a quality service to customers in the area.

The key objectives of this review are to:

• simplify the area’s bus network,
• provide a service which meets the level of demand in the area,
• provide improved connections to Luas and DART,
• improve journey times on key bus routes, and
• provide more consistent frequencies.

Please click on the links below to view proposed changes:

Proposal for Routes 7, 7c and 45a
Proposal for Routes 8, 59, 63 and 111
Proposal for Routes 7b and 7d


Dublin Bus is committed to engaging with customers in regard to these proposed changes. We welcome your feedback. You can submit your feedback by:
Email: feedback@dublinbus.ie

Post: Dún Laoghaire Feedback,
Media and Communications Department,
Dublin Bus,
59 Upper O'Connell Street,
Dublin 1.

Please send us your feedback by Friday 14th August 2015.

Dublin Bus is hosting an Information Day in Dún Laoghaire Shopping Centre on Friday, 31st July between 12.00 and 16.00.

the groutch

OssianSmyth wrote: »

Dublin Bus will hold an open information day in Dún Laoghaire Shopping Centre on Friday 31 July 2015 between 1200 and 1600 hours.

do you have any opinion yourself on the proposed changes?

dublinman1990

Does anyone know what the frequency will be for 7/7c routes on Sundays/Bank Holidays if these routes were implemented?

LXFlyer

Presumably the same as it is now. Every 20 minutes?

Why don't you ask them?

pm1977x

I'm a 2 min walk from the 7 in Sallynoggin at the moment but never use it for work commute as it takes far too long with it's various detours, why does it even need to go to Blackrock (served by the 4 + DART) and Dun Laoghaire (served by numerous other buses + DART), instead I trek over to the 46a which is far faster even with the extra walk.

LXFlyer

pm1977x wrote: »

I'm a 2 min walk from the 7 in Sallynoggin at the moment but never use it for work commute as it takes far too long with it's various detours, why does it even need to go to Blackrock (served by the 4 + DART) and Dun Laoghaire (served by numerous other buses + DART), instead I trek over to the 46a which is far faster even with the extra walk.

Why does it need to serve Dun Laoghaire and Blackrock? Because it's the main bus on the Rock Road QBC.

Bizarrely enough people from south of those places may want to go to them as well?

Also not everyone using it from elsewhere along the route may be able to get to a DART station.

grimm2005

I really hope these changes are made. I've been getting the 7 for years and the journey is just so long and arduous. The extra stops on Sallyglen road and the 45A reroute means that everyone will be covered. Sure, it might makes things a bit more inconvenient for a minority of folks but I think most folks on the rest of the route will welcome the changes. The journey to the city centre on the 7 bothers me so much that I often hop off in Dun Laoghaire and grab the Dart the rest of the way or walk to the 145 stop instead.

Skipping Blackrock village makes a lot of sense as well, considering how close to the Frascatti centre stop it is.

Fratton Fred

I thought the 8 was going to continue for the school run?

Cookie_Monster

Larbre34 wrote: »

Streamlining services is all very well, but whats the point if it continually moves services away from customers, especially vulnerable ones.

what about the 100's, maybe 1000's of customers it is moving closer to, those that live the other side of Sallyglen road?

LXFlyer

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I thought the 8 was going to continue for the school run?

It may do as a school service rather than a normal bus.

Larbre34

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

what about the 100's, maybe 1000's of customers it is moving closer to, those that live the other side of Sallyglen road?

Its a no brainer that the other side of Sallyglen Road is more affluent. Car ownership higher etc etc

Cookie_Monster

Larbre34 wrote: »

Its a no brainer that the other side of Sallyglen Road is more affluent. Car ownership higher etc etc

so, what, more likely to have a job and hence a bigger requirement to commute so more revenue generated for DB / NTA. would seem like a no brainer to me,

45a provides the social service and links for the FTP users if they cannot manage the 5/600 metres of additional walking required.

Fratton Fred

Larbre34 wrote: »

Its a no brainer that the other side of Sallyglen Road is more affluent. Car ownership higher etc etc

isn't the idea of public transport to get people out of their cars?

uch

Fratton Fred wrote: »

isn't the idea of public transport to get people out of their cars?

I agree totally Fred, but some people wouldn't get out of their cars if the Bus dropped them to their front door. Personally I think Dublin Bus will go through the motions of public consultation and so on, and just do what they want regardless.

SimonMaher

Just on a point of clarification here - the idea of public transport is far from exclusively to get people out of their cars. Public transport would have been originally designed as a method of mass transit for people who didn't have cars in the first place. That remains a vital purpose of public transport in many aspects now whether that is on the basis of economics, infirmity, age (young or old) etc. Now, return to your debate

Simon

patrickbrophy18

Larbre34 wrote: »

Its a no brainer that the other side of Sallyglen Road is more affluent. Car ownership higher etc etc

High car ownership is an unfortunate by-product of a poorly planned public transportation system and a failure to provide proper infrastructure that would allow them to operate to good effect. For example, in its current form, the 7 is a complete nightmare if you're traveling from Ballybrack, Cherrywood or Laughlinstown to Dublin City.

To begin with, the traffic on Rochestown Avenue is often sluggish. Then, it has to make its way through Sallynoggin where it operates through housing estates (with some narrow roads I might add). I can very well imagine this stretch alone taking 10-20 minutes at peak times. Then, in Blackrock, it takes a right down Newtown Avenue at a set of traffic lights that can take anything up to 3 minutes to go green. Along Newtown Avenue, the road becomes somewhat tight with the recent installation of a contra-flow cycle lane. It then has to wait at 2 more sets of traffic lights, one at Urban Junction and the other at Frascati Road itself. This can also add another 5 to 10 minutes on to the journey. I imagine this is much longer on peak. The two new alignments along Sallyglen Road and the Blackrock Bypass should shave a minimum of 15 minutes off the overall journey length. As a result, more people are likely to switch from their cars to this route alone. I've said it once and I'll say it again, speed is one of the most important factors in planning public transport.

While I still sympathize with those suffering from moderate to severe physical disabilities who will loose out over the reroute, I do think the proposed new alignment for the 45A is an adequate compromise. Yeah, it's not as frequent as the 7 but, it will still keep them connected to the network. Nevertheless, I can see many of them having an issue over this new arrangement and the changes required to get to town/Blackrock.

ted1 wrote: »

Busses are not long haul. There destinations are not from A to B. they are from A to Z with numerous destinations along the way. they don't just serve the terminating points.

I was merely making a metaphor or comparison if you will. For example, local bus routes are akin to short-haul flights while city to outer suburb routes are akin to long haul. City bound buses shouldn't operate through housing estates at all. This should be left to local or feeder routes.

ted1

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

High car ownership is an unfortunate by-product of a poorly planned public transportation system and a failure to provide proper infrastructure that would allow them to operate to good effect. For example, in its current form, the 7 is a complete nightmare if you're traveling from Ballybrack, Cherrywood or Laughlinstown to Dublin City.
.

As is the 75, 77, 65, 16,etc but the 145 is perfect, as Is the LUAS.

There is no need for duplication of routes.