Rally For Life!!!

newmug

Anyone else at the Rally For Life today? There was an estimated 30,000 at it, but of course RTE said there was 8000. Typical. So, did anyone else go?

Hotblack Desiato

RTE and the Gardai and Google Maps count in a godless fashion, people of faith know that if two loaves and five fishes can feed a multitude, then it is certain that 50,000 defenders of life can occupy a space where only 15,000 can fit shoulder to shoulder.

newmug

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

RTE and the Gardai and Google Maps count in a godless fashion, people of faith know that if two loaves and five fishes can feed a multitude, then it is certain that 50,000 defenders of life can occupy a space where only 15,000 can fit shoulder to shoulder.

<snip> are you on about? The Gardai estimated 30,000. RTE reported it as 8000. Anyway, were you at it? Or were you on O'Connell St.?

Coillte_Bhoy

newmug wrote: »

WTF are you on about? The Gardai estimated 30,000. RTE reported it as 8000. Anyway, were you at it? Or were you on O'Connell St.?

link?

Delirium

newmug wrote: »

<snip> are you on about? The Gardai estimated 30,000. RTE reported it as 8000. Anyway, were you at it? Or were you on O'Connell St.?

No, RTE stated:

Gardaí estimated the crowd for today's rally at between 5,000 and 8,000, while organisers said the figure was between 25,000 and 30,000.

Source

Do you have a link to a Garda release that states an estimate of 30,000 attendance?

robp

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

RTE and the Gardai and Google Maps count in a godless fashion, people of faith know that if two loaves and five fishes can feed a multitude, then it is certain that 50,000 defenders of life can occupy a space where only 15,000 can fit shoulder to shoulder.

Why do people here feel the need to be so abusive and snarky. The worst part you are not even accurate. RTE didn't count attendance as you claim.

endacl

I wasn't at it. I can be counted out.

Delirium

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

RTE and the Gardai and Google Maps count in a godless fashion, people of faith know that if two loaves and five fishes can feed a multitude, then it is certain that 50,000 defenders of life can occupy a space where only 15,000 can fit shoulder to shoulder.

MOD NOTE

Please remember this is the Christianity forum, so kindly rein in the mocking/goading of Christians.

Thanks for your attention.

eviltwin

Only in Ireland could you have a bunch of individuals marching to keep something that is illegal, illegal. I was in the vicinity of the March as I have been for the past few years, yesterday was definitely a lot less of an event compared to previous years.

Manach

I was there on a prior occasion. Very good turnout then as well acting as an act of affirmation and community building on this subject.

Huntergonzo

I should have went, I'm pro-life (otherwise I'd be dead), I'm also pro abortion though, I think telling a woman she can't have an abortion and even worse criminalizing it is <snip> barbaric!

Queue, complaints, warnings and possible bans for expressing a genuine contrary opinion.

Absolam

Huntergonzo wrote: »

I should have went, I'm pro-life (otherwise I'd be dead), I'm also pro abortion though, I think telling a woman she can't have an abortion and even worse criminalizing it is <snip> barbaric!
Queue, complaints, warnings and possible bans for expressing a genuine contrary opinion.

amdublin

I don't think it's rte who estimate the figures. I think that's the guards job who report it to rte.

It's done by taking an area for example oconnell st and looking from air how tightly packed the people are and then how long it takes for the whole parade to get from point a to b through oconnell st. I think.

newmug

amdublin wrote: »

I don't think it's rte who estimate the figures. I think that's the guards job who report it to rte.

It's done by taking an area for example oconnell st and looking from air how tightly packed the people are and then how long it takes for the whole parade to get from point a to b through oconnell st. I think.

Correct. But the Guards always say one figure, and RTE always reports about a third of it. And if its a rally for something the govt wants, RTE will double the official attendance figures.

recedite

newmug wrote: »

Correct. But the Guards always say one figure, and RTE always reports about a third of it. And if its a rally for something the govt wants, RTE will double the official attendance figures.

How can you spout such nonsense? Have you phoned the Garda Press Office yourself to confirm their estimates before making these wild allegations?

Here's what the Irish Times reported.

There were wildly varying estimates of the numbers in attendance at the anti-abortion rally, with senior gardaí saying a crowd of around 8,000 descended on Molesworth Street for the final meeting point whereas organisers indicated that the audience size was closer to 30,000.

Here's what the Irish Independent reported.

Gardaí estimated the crowd for today's rally at about 5,000 to 8,000. However, organisers insisted that the turnout was significantly higher.

P_1

The march streched from Parnell Square to the Spire on the southbound lane of O'Connell Street right? So that is 300m x 7m = 2100 sq m. Lets assume that the average person occupies an area of half a square meter when marching. Simple maths would tell you that you'd have had a maximum of 4,500 at it.

galljga1

The Garda estimate is the official figure. Anything else is speculative nonsense, higher or lower.

Greenmachine

Organiser of every march every held in Dublin have vastly different figures than official estimates. I am more inclined to believe official figures. Fluffing figures to exaggerate the success of a campaign is horrible common in Ireland. Maybe the same applies in other countries too, but it certainly applies here.

amdublin

newmug wrote: »

Correct. But the Guards always say one figure, and RTE always reports about a third of it. And if its a rally for something the govt wants, RTE will double the official attendance figures.

Do you have a link to what the Gardai estimated for this one?

Rte quoted what the gardai said.

Do you have a link to show something else?

At the moment you sound like you have a theory but with nothing to support it. You need some evidence to show that what you are saying is true.

Gumbi

How quaint. Point of post has been shown to be woefully basesless, and OP has yet to rectify this, and/or acknowledge the mistake.

Not a NSA agent

newmug wrote: »

Correct. But the Guards always say one figure, and RTE always reports about a third of it. And if its a rally for something the govt wants, RTE will double the official attendance figures.

Do you have anything that shows the gardai saying there was 24,000 people there?

Either there is a conspiracy between RTE and the gardai or YD has made up a larger number. YD also have a history of poor numerical skills (unless the laws of physics dont apply to them)

http://www.thelifeinstitute.net/latest-news/people-with-disabilities-take-centre-stage-at-major-pro-life-rally-30000-crowd-exceeds-all-expectations/
The life institute claims gardai said 25-30k were there but also claim that amnesty want it to be legal to have abortions in the case of down syndrome which Amnesty denied.

Someone is telling lies.

am946745

eviltwin wrote: »

Only in Ireland could you have a bunch of individuals marching to keep something that is illegal, illegal. I was in the vicinity of the March as I have been for the past few years, yesterday was definitely a lot less of an event compared to previous years.

NOT ONLY in Ireland. go to the US and you will see what a march of life looks like. They have millions of people who march against abortion.

am946745

P_1 wrote: »

The march streched from Parnell Square to the Spire on the southbound lane of O'Connell Street right? So that is 300m x 7m = 2100 sq m. Lets assume that the average person occupies an area of half a square meter when marching. Simple maths would tell you that you'd have had a maximum of 4,500 at it.

4500... right.



https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10153059793119150.1073741835.337495229149&type=3

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

Made the mistake of going on YD's facebook page there. Could somebody please explain to me how protesting Ireland's restrictive abortion laws after they're implicated in cases like Savita, Miss Y, or that poor brain dead woman is lowest of the low, barrel scraping, manipulative tactics, but plastering pictures of disabled children all over facebook in the name of restricting all abortions ever is classy and legitimate?

am946745

Karla Thoughtless Quarterback wrote: »

Made the mistake of going on YD's facebook page there. Could somebody please explain to me how protesting Ireland's restrictive abortion laws after they're implicated in cases like Savita, Miss Y, or that poor brain dead woman is lowest of the low, barrel scraping, manipulative tactics, but plastering pictures of disabled children all over facebook in the name of restricting all abortions ever is classy and legitimate?

Our laws did not cause Sarvitas death. Medical incompetence did.

We uphold that there is a fundamental difference between abortion, and necessary medical treatments that are carried out to save the life of the mother, even if such treatment results in the loss of life of her unborn child.

We already have laws in place to save a mothers life, we don't need abortion on demand.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

am946745 wrote: »

Our laws did not cause Sarvitas death. Medical incompetence did.



We already have laws in place to save a mothers life, we don't need abortion on demand.

And what about the other cases? What about Miss Y and the woman on life support? It's not ok to protest about what the abortion laws in Ireland put those women and their families through, it's not ok to highlight the horrendous situation women with FFA pregnancies are in, it's callous, exploitative and emotional manipulation of the most despicable order according to the pro-life movement. But by all means, use your disabled child as an accessory to wheel out on stage as part of a campaign to maintain those situations, which are WHOLLY unrelated to your child's condition. That's not emotionally manipulative at all?

RDM_83 again

About YD do those that are strongly pro-life but not members consider them a useful ally or is their effect mostly negative to your cause (I'd believe they are and would say the same about aggressive prochoicers)

am946745

Karla Thoughtless Quarterback wrote: »

And what about the other cases? What about Miss Y and the woman on life support? It's not ok to protest about what the abortion laws in Ireland put those women and their families through, it's not ok to highlight the horrendous situation women with FFA pregnancies are in, it's callous, exploitative and emotional manipulation of the most despicable order according to the pro-life movement. But by all means, use your disabled child as an accessory to wheel out on stage as part of a campaign to maintain those situations, which are WHOLLY unrelated to your child's condition. That's not emotionally manipulative at all?

In the Y case the baby is alive.. So you want us to apologise for life?? And so is the mother. What was the state supposed to do. Hand down a death sentence on a baby?

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

am946745 wrote: »

In the Y case the baby is alive.. So you want us to apologise for life?? And so is the mother. What was the state supposed to do. Hand down a death sentence on a baby?

You're not answering my question at all, I don't know what your posts are a response to but it's not my posts

RDM_83 again

Karla Thoughtless Quarterback wrote: »

And what about the other cases? What about Miss Y and the woman on life support? It's not ok to protest about what the abortion laws in Ireland put those women and their families through, it's not ok to highlight the horrendous situation women with FFA pregnancies are in, it's callous, exploitative and emotional manipulation of the most despicable order according to the pro-life movement. But by all means, use your disabled child as an accessory to wheel out on stage as part of a campaign to maintain those situations, which are WHOLLY unrelated to your child's condition. That's not emotionally manipulative at all?

The thing is one of the parties in government (Labour)who will be drafting the legislation does believe that removing the constitutional barriers will aid creating a more liberal regime , so its cheap and not directly related to the proposed referendum but does have a certain logic (I wouldn't say this if Labour weren't in power but their own members have said this in private)

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

RDM_83 again wrote: »

The thing is one of the parties in government (Labour)who will be drafting the legislation does believe that removing the constitutional barriers will aid creating a more liberal regime , so its cheap and not directly related to the proposed referendum but does have a certain logic (I wouldn't say this if Labour weren't in power but their own members have said this in private)

It has a certain logic for sure, what's really getting me is the blatant hypocrisy given their reaction whenever reference to cases directly related to abortion law in Ireland are made in the course of criticising abortion law in Ireland.

Delirium

am946745 wrote: »

4500... right.



https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10153059793119150.1073741835.337495229149&type=3

FYI, those pictures are from the rally in 2013. Turnout was 25k according to Garda estimates in 2013.

Not a NSA agent

SW wrote: »

FYI, those pictures are from the rally in 2013. Turnout was 25k according to Garda estimates in 2013.

I thought it was strange seeing as it says Vigil for Life on the picture itself!

To make things even stranger I cant find those pictures in the link provided (the original rally for life 2015 album, not yours).

am946745

SW wrote: »

FYI, those pictures are from the rally in 2013. Turnout was 25k according to Garda estimates in 2013.

2013 aswell?

zl1whqvjs75cdy

Looks no where close to 25k people.

Delirium

am946745 wrote: »

2013 aswell?

I'm guessing not since it actually looks closer to the numbers estimated for this years rally, i.e. between 5-8k people.

amdublin

am946745 wrote: »

We already have laws in place to save a mothers life, we don't need abortion on demand.

But why not?

If I want to abort my baby why can't I?

am946745

SW wrote: »

I'm guessing not since it actually looks closer to the numbers estimated for this years rally, i.e. between 5-8k people.

were you there?

Delirium

am946745 wrote: »

were you there?

Relevance?

I'm basing the numbers on Garda estimates. Do you dispute their figures?

am946745

SW wrote: »

Relevance?

I'm basing the numbers on Garda estimates. Do you dispute their figures?

Relevant because I was and you were not. There was a lot more people than during the Dublin Marathon.

Delirium

am946745 wrote: »

Relevant because I was and you were not. There was a lot more people than during the Dublin Marathon.

And the Gardai were also there, which is the source I'm using for the attendance. Are you suggesting the Gardai are wrong?

amdublin

am946745 wrote: »

Relevant because I was and you were not. There was a lot more people than during the Dublin Marathon.

In your localised opinion.

Why do you not just use the gardai figure? Twould be simpler.

Any hoo it doesn't really matter if 5 people were there or 5k people. It does not change my opinion that other people should not have the right to say what I can do or not do with my body and my baby.

Not a NSA agent

am946745 wrote: »

2013 aswell?

Probably not considering this time the words "Rally for life" are there instead of "vigil for life" and it is actually present in your provided link.

The first pictures URL:
https://lifesite-cache.s3.amazonaws.com/images/news/Screen_Shot_2013-06-10_at_3.45.07_PM.png

Even says 2013 in the link and lifesitenews have that image used in articles from June 2013.

The second URL is from facebook
https://scontent-ams3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/11214722_10153060107909150_7053623447537732277_n.jpg?oh=de9f1934ecb7e162f889d1dbcc3dc6b3&oe=5621F758

recedite

RDM_83 again wrote: »

The thing is one of the parties in government (Labour)who will be drafting the legislation does believe that removing the constitutional barriers will aid creating a more liberal regime , so its cheap and not directly related to the proposed referendum but does have a certain logic (I wouldn't say this if Labour weren't in power but their own members have said this in private)

Eh.. what legislation is this? I haven't heard of any.

Gumbi

Posters continually posting pics now from 2013 rallies and masquerading them as if theh are from 2015. Abd when they are called up on it, thry move on to another point, or ignore it completely.

At least admit your mistake and move on, otherwise you come off as intentionally trting to mislead people.

robp

I can settle the debate. The below paragraph confirms the reports I have heard from several of what Gardai actually said. There was no official estimate and thus the RTE figure is spurious. And once again the abortion ideologues have been shown to be lacking in the fact checking department.

In fairness, the Independent and others acknowledged that there were in excess of 25,000 people there, a simply massive rally in the Irish experience, but other media outlets tried to claim that Gardai said there were only 8000 in attendance.

One journalist insisted that the Garda Press Office has issued the figure, but when we rang the Garda Press Office they confirmed that they had not issued any estimate for the Rally.

On the Rally route , several senior Garda acknowledged that the Rally turnout had exceeded the initial expectation of 15,000 people and as the Rally made its way to the Dáil, the estimates of the senior Gardai present was of between 25 and 30,000 people. Looking at the photos of the huge crowd filling O’Connell Street, it would be difficult to disagree with those estimates.

So, what to make of the journalists’ claims of a Garda estimate of 8,000? It seems likely that the journalist either suggested the number, or they simply made the estimate up. Who knows.

http://www.thelifeinstitute.net/latest-news/thank-you-for-making-rally-amazing-and-the-estimates-garda-actually-gave/

frag420

robp wrote: »

I can settle the debate. The below paragraph confirms the reports I have heard from several of what Gardai actually said. There was no official estimate and thus the RTE figure is spurious. And once again the abortion ideologues have been shown to be lacking in the fact checking department.

http://www.thelifeinstitute.net/latest-news/thank-you-for-making-rally-amazing-and-the-estimates-garda-actually-gave/

From thelifeinstitute............:rolleyes:

please try harder....

Delirium

robp wrote: »

I can settle the debate. The below paragraph confirms the reports I have heard from several of what Gardai actually said. There was no official estimate and thus the RTE figure is spurious. And once again the abortion ideologues have been shown to be lacking in the fact checking department.

http://www.thelifeinstitute.net/latest-news/thank-you-for-making-rally-amazing-and-the-estimates-garda-actually-gave/

You realise that the link to the Independent article doesn't state anywhere what the Gardai estimates are.

So, you're essentially claiming that RTE, the Irish Times and Irish Independent made stuff up. (Obviously I'm not including the Irish Independent article submitted by Sarah McDonald who writes for such outlets as, the Irish Independent, the international Catholic weekly The Tablet, Catholic News Service in Washington, the Catholic Times, the Catholic Herald and a number of other publications, such as Catholic Life, the Messenger of St Anthony (international edition) and the Pioneer.)

The cynic in mean would think she may have purposely dropped any mention of the Garda estimates so as to paint a picture of a 25k attendance with the exclusion of any conflicting data.

recedite wrote: »

How can you spout such nonsense? Have you phoned the Garda Press Office yourself to confirm their estimates before making these wild allegations?

Here's what the Irish Times reported.

There were wildly varying estimates of the numbers in attendance at the anti-abortion rally, with senior gardaí saying a crowd of around 8,000 descended on Molesworth Street for the final meeting point whereas organisers indicated that the audience size was closer to 30,000.

Here's what the Irish Independent reported.

Gardaí estimated the crowd for today's rally at about 5,000 to 8,000. However, organisers insisted that the turnout was significantly higher.

robp

SW wrote: »

You realise that the link to the Independent article doesn't state anywhere what the Gardai estimates are.

So, you're essentially claiming that RTE, the Irish Times and Irish Independent made stuff up. (Obviously I'm not including the Irish Independent article submitted by Sarah McDonald who writes for such outlets as, the Irish Independent, the international Catholic weekly The Tablet, Catholic News Service in Washington, the Catholic Times, the Catholic Herald and a number of other publications, such as Catholic Life, the Messenger of St Anthony (international edition) and the Pioneer.)

The cynic in mean would think she may have purposely dropped any mention of the Garda estimates so as to paint a picture of a 25k attendance with the exclusion of any conflicting data.

No. I am stating that there was no official Garda estimate and I struggle to see one can be constantly referred to without any verification from the Gardai. Journalists don't independently verify sources.

robp

far more consequential statements are published all the time without any independent fact checking.

galljga1

SW wrote: »

Obviously I'm not including the Irish Independent article submitted by Sarah McDonald who writes for such outlets as, the Irish Independent, the international Catholic weekly The Tablet, Catholic News Service in Washington, the Catholic Times, the Catholic Herald and a number of other publications, such as Catholic Life, the Messenger of St Anthony (international edition) and the Pioneer.

So... What are you trying to imply here?