Galway Chess Congress 2015 Cancelled

cdeb · 23-07-2015 1:09pm

Retd.LoyolaCpt wrote: »

Nothing of it, merely pointing out that I didn't believe it was advice, just fact - but good advice always welcome

Wasn't really directed at you - more at the complainant.

Or even a rhetorical question.

Sparks · 23-07-2015 1:59pm

sinbad68 wrote: »

Mr balynafeigh. Thank you for taking time off dealing with your troubles to give advice to us in the south. If you are wondering why No response to your long post so far , it's perhaps, because icu members and in particular IRL federation players don't take kindly being told by outsiders & foreign federation players what to do ?

<insert rude word here>.

If the ICU were run with half the good-natured passion that Ballynafeigh have been showing, we'd all be better off.

sinbad68 · 23-07-2015 2:31pm

I don't understand why there is so much hostility towards me after my post here ?!. I think the meaning of my response to Mr ballynafeigh was lost in translation, After his post yesterday, he was expecting a flurry of responses which did not happen and I was just trying to explain to him why this was the case, that's all . As regards ucu joining icu, why would anyone try to get on the Titanic after it has hit the iceberg ?. Why ucu don't have own fide affiliation, like wales or scotland or join a more stable entity ?.

Ballynafeigh Chess · 23-07-2015 2:34pm

" why would anyone try to get on the Titanic after it has hit the iceberg ?"

because if you can fix the hole, your on a beautiful ship

Ballynafeigh Chess · 23-07-2015 2:45pm

To those of you that wrote the complimentary and supportive comments above many thanks it made pleasurable reading

Sparks · 23-07-2015 2:46pm

sinbad68 wrote: »

After his post yesterday, he was expecting a flurry of responses which did not happen and I was just trying to explain to him why this was the case, that's all

...and you were not only completely hopelessly wrong about that, but you were exceptionally rude in the way you went about it.
Or were you unaware that someone posting in an RoI board telling an NI poster to mind their own business was an especially rude thing to do?
(And if so, how? What civilisationless corner of Mayo were you hiding in for the last forty years?)

As regards ucu joining icu, why would anyone try to get on the Titanic after it has hit the iceberg ?. Why ucu don't have own fide affiliation, like wales or scotland or join a more stable entity ?.

Because FIDE wants one federation per country and so long as the ICU doesn't bar the UCU from affiliation, the UCU can't get into FIDE seperately.

However, if the ICU PRO is now publicly saying they can't because the ICU won't have them, well, that might change matters.

sinbad68 · 23-07-2015 2:46pm

Ballynafeigh Chess wrote: »

" why would anyone try to get on the Titanic after it has hit the iceberg ?"

because if you can fix the hole, your on a beautiful ship

Strangely enough , in order to fix the hole, you only have to throw a couple of bad apples overboard, that's all !.

Ficheall · 23-07-2015 2:59pm

brianhere wrote: »

The ICU PRO has just joined the debate on the above mentioned Ballynafeigh blog here: https://ballynafeighchess.wordpress.com/commentsideasgripes/ .

He also seems to believe, if it is indeed CD, that
"It seems Galway was heading for a bit of a disaster with the numbers"
which is a curious observation since GCC hadn't even started accepting any entries yet...

reunion · 23-07-2015 3:19pm

Sparks wrote: »

What civilisationless corner of Mayo Roscommon South-Leitrim were you hiding in for the last forty years?

Just needed to fix that, he could have come out since the vote.

Sparks wrote: »

Because FIDE wants one federation per country and so long as the ICU doesn't bar the UCU from affiliation, the UCU can't get into FIDE seperately.

However, if the ICU PRO is now publicly saying they can't because the ICU won't have them, well, that might change matters.

The ICU covers the entire Island of Ireland. If the UCU want to run FIDE events they need the ICU.

If I had to guess, the current ICU executive want to bill the UCU for every member they have.

Galway should have run this year being UCU rated - ICU rated could be a conditional if the ICU decided to use common sense.

sinbad68 · 23-07-2015 3:28pm

reunion wrote: »

Just needed to fix that, he could have come out since the vote.

If you want come out , you should really do it , instead of falsely labling others .

Retd.LoyolaCpt · 23-07-2015 3:30pm

reunion wrote: »

Just needed to fix that, he could have come out since the vote

This is a chess thread, shouldn't we be keeping politics (even if its satirical) out of it; you would be calling 34% of the electorate "civilisationless" and singling out one constituency when several were essentially toss ups. Stay on topic

Sparks · 23-07-2015 3:44pm

reunion wrote: »

The ICU covers the entire Island of Ireland. If the UCU want to run FIDE events they need the ICU.

Not if the ICU refuses them membership *and* has no clubs up north.
At that point the UCU can claim discrimination in their application to FIDE.
I'm not saying it'd be nice; but it would change the context of the application significantly.

sinbad68 · 23-07-2015 3:46pm

Retd.LoyolaCpt wrote: »

This is a chess thread, shouldn't we be keeping politics (even if its satirical) out of it; you would be calling 34% of the electorate "civilisationless" and singling out one constituency when several were essentially toss ups. Stay on topic

Yes , you are right , when people can't win arguments , they use insults, meanwhile I really hope reunion finds the courage to come out.

Sparks · 23-07-2015 3:49pm

sinbad68 wrote: »

when people can't win arguments , they use insults, meanwhile I really hope reunion finds the courage to come out.

mikhail · 23-07-2015 3:51pm

Sparks wrote: »

Not if the ICU refuses them membership *and* has no clubs up north.

The ICU and FIDE do not have affiliate clubs, only individual members. I think a lot of that stuff was thrashed out when the UCU split in the 90s and FIDE refused to recognise them, but others may know the details.

Retd.LoyolaCpt · 23-07-2015 3:52pm

Sparks wrote: »

Not if the ICU refuses them membership *and* has no clubs up north.
At that point the UCU can claim discrimination in their application to FIDE.
I'm not saying it'd be nice; but it would change the context of the application significantly.

I think you might be jumping the gun here. The PRO has personally said something which is totally unfiltered and in no way an indication of how the rest of the committee feels as the PRO has done on many occasions this year. The PRO has no power other than a vote on the committee and certainly does not have the authority to exclude the UCU by himself. Even if it was posted directly to the ICU site, I'd have my doubts about where the opinion is coming from.

cdeb · 23-07-2015 3:54pm

Mod note - can we leave out the silly gay jibes and just keep on topic?

Warnings next time

Please and thanks!

Retd.LoyolaCpt · 23-07-2015 3:55pm

sinbad68 wrote: »

Yes , you are right , when people can't win arguments , they use insults, meanwhile I really hope reunion finds the courage to come out.

Ok fellas, lets put this to bed here. This is above both of you

Sparks · 23-07-2015 3:56pm

Retd.LoyolaCpt wrote: »

I think you might be jumping the gun here. The PRO has personally said something which is totally unfiltered and in no way an indication of how the rest of the committee feels as the PRO has done on many occasions this year. The PRO has no power other than a vote on the committee and certainly does not have the authority to exclude the UCU by himself. Even if it was posted directly to the ICU site, I'd have my doubts about where the opinion is coming from.

Maybe; but it's not our job to make that determination. The ICU PRO has posted in public about ICU policy. If he's just posting random thoughts from his own head and they totally misrepresent the ICU's actual position, that's something for the ICU to rectify, not the readers.

That's just part and parcel of any PRO's job. And if he can't do it, and has been making this mistake constantly and the ICU don't relieve him, then the party at fault is the ICU and again, that's not a call for the readers to make, it's a fault for the ICU to rectify.

So if they publish an official statement saying he was talking out of his hat, well and good, but otherwise, reading it as official is not unreasonable.

cdeb · 23-07-2015 3:59pm

Sparks wrote: »

So if they publish an official statement saying he was talking out of his hat, well and good, but otherwise, reading it as official is not unreasonable.

They do say the only official ICU outlets are ICU.ie, IrishChessUnion.net and Ratings.ICU.ie

Anything else is outside their control.

I think we have to take from that that a punter posting on another site, even as an ICU exec member, isn't an officially authorised ICU posting.

If they have a press release, etc, you'd imagine it'd go on their website first, and so be official ipso facto.

Retd.LoyolaCpt · 23-07-2015 4:06pm

Sparks wrote: »

Maybe; but it's not our job to make that determination. The ICU PRO has posted in public about ICU policy. If he's just posting random thoughts from his own head and they totally misrepresent the ICU's actual position, that's something for the ICU to rectify, not the readers.

That's just part and parcel of any PRO's job. And if he can't do it, and has been making this mistake constantly and the ICU don't relieve him, then the party at fault is the ICU and again, that's not a call for the readers to make, it's a fault for the ICU to rectify.

So if they publish an official statement saying he was talking out of his hat, well and good, but otherwise, reading it as official is not unreasonable.

I feel like a broken record dragging up the NCC again, but that is the best example I can think of; "Cancelled" by the PRO with an unofficial and poorly written message on the ICU site because this individual wanted it rescheduled for Dublin so that his team could play (it was reduced to an odd number because his team pulled out last minute - as he couldn't go - a member of his team came to watch regardless). The event in fact was still to go ahead. Take everything with a pinch of salt until they're voted out (if they ever announce an AGM).

I realise what you are saying about it not being our job to make sense of it, but this is one member who has apparently lost support within the current executive apart from the man who elected him on the day of the last AGM; so his word (especially his word on sites where his identity is not completely established) should be given as much weight as it deserves: little or none. Speculation is grand, just wanted to clear up some things

Sparks · 23-07-2015 4:54pm

Retd.LoyolaCpt wrote: »

I realise what you are saying about it not being our job to make sense of it, but this is one member who has apparently lost support within the current executive apart from the man who elected him on the day of the last AGM; so his word (especially his word on sites where his identity is not completely established) should be given as much weight as it deserves: little or none. Speculation is grand, just wanted to clear up some things

Nope, sorry, that dog won't hunt.
He's the PRO. If he's spouting nonsense and misrepresenting the ICU board in public, he gets the boot. If he doesn't get the boot for that, then that's tacit approval by the board, especially since they haven't commented to the contrary.

And saying "it's only official if it's on X website" is rather undermined by the PRO's statements coming after that, and by the whole kerfuffle about the ICU website.

If he comes out and says "I think the French is boring", fair's fair, that's not an ICU statement.

If he comes out and says "individual players ... some who have violated various ICU codes of conduct, pertaining to damage to the image and reputation of Irish chess and the ICU, will either be refused entry [to the ICU] or be subject to immediate disciplinary proceedings in which they will have the chance to explain and defend their activities to avoid being suspended as an ICU member", fair's fair, that's a statement of ICU policy being made in public by an ICU board member whose sole function is to relate the board's position to the wider membership and public at large.

If that isn't what the ICU board meant, it's up to them to suspend the PRO and issue a public retraction of his comments on their behalf. Until that happens, well, it's an ICU statement.

gordongekko · 23-07-2015 4:55pm

Has anyone approached person a and asked them to withdraw their entry from the competition?

Retd.LoyolaCpt · 23-07-2015 5:00pm

Sparks wrote: »

Nope, sorry, that dog won't hunt.
He's the PRO. If he's spouting nonsense and misrepresenting the ICU board in public, he gets the boot. If he doesn't get the boot for that, then that's tacit approval by the board, especially since they haven't commented to the contrary.

And saying "it's only official if it's on X website" is rather undermined by the PRO's statements coming after that, and by the whole kerfuffle about the ICU website.

If he comes out and says "I think the French is boring", fair's fair, that's not an ICU statement.

If he comes out and says "individual players ... some who have violated various ICU codes of conduct, pertaining to damage to the image and reputation of Irish chess and the ICU, will either be refused entry [to the ICU] or be subject to immediate disciplinary proceedings in which they will have the chance to explain and defend their activities to avoid being suspended as an ICU member", fair's fair, that's a statement of ICU policy being made in public by an ICU board member whose sole function is to relate the board's position to the wider membership and public at large.

If that isn't what the ICU board meant, it's up to them to suspend the PRO and issue a public retraction of his comments on their behalf. Until that happens, well, it's an ICU statement.

I understand your point but this is essentially an anonymous post; anyone can go onto baords or that site and use whatever name they like. Just because he shares the username of the PRO, doesn't mean it is him.

However, his email is on the ICU website and knowing him personally, I'm sure he'd be only too happy to expand on that post if it was him. He'd probably call you a few names too, but unfortunately his response would be the length of a book, so you'd lose interest well before the end.

sinbad68 · 23-07-2015 5:01pm

Sparks wrote: »

...and you were not only completely hopelessly wrong about that, but you were exceptionally rude in the way you went about it.

The flurry of response was to my comment and not his, so you are the one who is wrong and also rude .

Sparks, you and many others here are relentlessly attacking icu pro and very negative about him all the time, BUT never mention positive things about him, for example his achievements as a chess player and the time and the energy he has spent whether on icu websites or organising things. What have you ever done for the chess community here ?

Retd.LoyolaCpt · 23-07-2015 5:12pm

sinbad68 wrote: »

The flurry of response was to my comment and not his, so you are the one who is wrong and also rude .

Sparks, you and many others here are relentlessly attacking icu pro and very negative about him all the time, BUT never mention positive things about him, for example his achievements as a chess player and the time and the energy he has spent whether on icu websites or organising things. What have you ever done for the chess community here ?

he has achieved a lot; 16th highest rated player atm, fair play to him.

The time he has spent on the icu.ie website has been to try to dismantle a site that was beautifully made. The time he has spent on the irishchessunion.net site which is of his own making is essentially redundant because it will cease to exist when a new committee is elected in (so long as they are).

Sparks · 23-07-2015 5:31pm

sinbad68 wrote: »

Sparks, you and many others here are relentlessly attacking icu pro and very negative about him all the time

We have very good reasons for doing so.

pawntof4 · 23-07-2015 5:35pm

sinbad68 wrote: »

Sparks, you and many others here are relentlessly attacking icu pro and very negative about him all the time

On a whole do you think he has been a successful PRO?

reunion · 23-07-2015 5:47pm

sinbad68 wrote: »

you and many others here are relentlessly attacking icu pro and very negative about him all the time, BUT never mention positive things about him, for example his achievements as a chess player and the time and the energy he has spent whether on icu websites or organising things. What have you ever done for the chess community here ?

I could, I really could go into a rant about how he hasn't done anything selfless in the last 3 years for irish chess, how he attacks people online or how much of a hypocrite he is but I'm going to put on my mod hat here and say

Let's not derail this thread to publicly bash Colm here. The guy is human and this can turn into quite the bullying thread. Let's calm down about Colm. This thread is about the Galway Congress being cancelled of which Colm had a very small part to play.

gordongekko wrote: »

Has anyone approached person a and asked them to withdraw their entry from the competition?

Nobody had entered Galway Congress when they cancelled it. However for the Rapidplay the individual would not withdraw their entry.

RQ_ennis_chess · 23-07-2015 6:12pm

sinbad68 wrote: »

Sparks, you and many others here are relentlessly attacking icu pro and very negative about him all the time, BUT never mention positive things about him, for example his achievements as a chess player and the time and the energy he has spent whether on icu websites or organising things. What have you ever done for the chess community here ?

Well obviously its because he is such a pleasant and unassuming person who spreads joy and sows harmony wherever he goes and everybody here is heartless and cruel.

Re Galway what I can't understand is why the organisers just dont go ahead and hold the tournament anyway. Does anybody really care if the ICU rate it or not?

Galway Chess Congress 2015 Cancelled

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