Vegetarian

nervous_twitch

Today I played with my neighbour's dog. Obviously I'm smarter than him (I think) but he participated so joyously and I actually had more fun with him than a lot of the people I've met since I arrived here.. recent emigrant. He didnt care very much, he just wanted to have the craic. It was deadly.

I've read recent reports on FB about the horrendous, dog-eating culture in Asia. They're domesticated, and as Westeners, we can't eat them. Barbaric. But as someone from the West I wonder.. what makes it OK to eat other living things?

I imagine a lot of pseudo-macho-responses: 'wipe its arse and I'm ready to go' - 'cant beat a good steak and chips' etc, but beyond that I wonder, are you OK to eat the flesh of living things and why?

Humans are the apex predator. But what makes us so powerful is our intellect. Our empathy. And we subject our power to other, less-abled sentient forms. The only gift we really have is our intelligence. So why are raising things to kill?

I'm not looking to preach vegetarianism but I would appreciate honest feedback. Genuinely curious!

I eat anything that could potentially eat me if it could.

Sir Osis of Liver.

If god intended us to be vegetarians,he wouldn't have made animals from meat.

nervous_twitch

Sir Osis of Liver. wrote: »

If god intended us to be vegetarians,he wouldn't have made animals from meat.

Exactly what I said to my bud. Well done.

dpofloinn

Simple answer FOR FOOD

coffeepls

So you were playing with a dog & then you wondered about how terrible it would be to eat it?

nervous_twitch

yeah. pretty much. i ate him.

The Backwards Man

Have you ever tried walking a carrot?

nervous_twitch

see. all these nervous, get-a-joke-in reactions. I'd be happy to hear another side of the coin!

libelula

I was a vegetarian for 12 years.
Then I took up running. The meat cravings were unreal, I needed protein baaadd maaann. So I ate a big lump of lamb one night when I was pissed and haven't looked back.

I do think the world is a terrible place in terms of how we treat our animals, and tbh I don't like thinking about some of the things I hear about. A cop-out, I know, but I do put effort into buying from my local butcher wherever possible, only buying organic free range eggs etc.

nervous_twitch

libelula wrote: »

Then I took up running. The meat cravings were unreal, I needed protein baaadd maaann.

Maybe you didnt get enough.

Kovu

If a cow ever got the chance, he'd eat you and everyone you care about! And I know because one of the calves was licking my hand earlier, wee bastard having a cheeky taste of human.

nervous_twitch

Kovu wrote: »

If a cow ever got the chance, he'd eat you and everyone you care about! And I know because one of the calves was licking my hand earlier, wee bastard having a cheeky taste of human.

Isnt that a hilarious cliché.

NachoBusiness

Sir Osis of Liver. wrote: »

If god intended us to be vegetarians,he wouldn't have made animals from meat.

God I hate this nonsense response that always appears in these threads.

Kovu

nervous_twitch wrote: »

Isnt that a hilarious cliché.

To be fair this sort of thread has been done to death about five gazillion times. Give or take a few hundred.

borderlinemeath

There's lots of cultures that eat dog, not just Asians. Dogs were a big part of the inuit diet and of a lot of arctic travellers. Dogs play a major part in their lives, they use them for transport, to keep warm at night, and when times are tough they are used for food.

The main problem with the likes of the Yulin dog meat festival is the nature in which the animals are slaughtered. We frown on halal slaughtered meat but for some reason the Chinese take it a step further, and believe the meat tastes better if the dog is tortured beforehand :mad:. This includes boiling them, setting them alight etc. The outrage on facebook against the likes of these festivals is justified, but in Korea, there are some dogs bred specifically for their meat, they are slaughtered humanely and everything is registered and above board, not like in China.

TBH, I have zero interest in vegetarianism I love eating meat and fish but I would draw the line at dog. Purely because I keep them as pets and know the affection they give to humans. Maybe if I lived on a farm I would be the same with the little fluffy lambs, although they haven't been domesticated and become companion animals in the same way that dogs and cats have in our culture.

Thelomen Toblackai

In my experience I find most people haven't actually thought about it. They grow up eating certain things and killing certain things and that's just the way it is. They don't delve into the moral implications of what they do in their daily lives. So they carry on doing things they've always done and then assuming what they do is just right.

That's not to say there isn't arguments to eat meat but on the whole I'd say its predominantly about habit and ignorance rather than being rooted in a deeply thought out view on the morality of it all.

Thelomen Toblackai

Thelomen Toblackai wrote: »

In my experience I find most people haven't actually thought about it. They grow up eating certain things and killing certain things and that's just the way it is. They don't delve into the moral implications of what they do in their daily lives. So they carry on doing things they've always done and then assuming what they do is just right.

That's not to say there isn't arguments to eat meat but on the whole I'd say its predominantly about habit and ignorance rather than being rooted in a deeply thought out view on the morality of it all.

I've seen enough to know how animals are killed and, while it's unbelievably horrible, it doesn't stop me from thinking they're unbelievably delicious.

The Backwards Man

nervous_twitch wrote: »

Isnt that a hilarious cliché.

Technically, a cow eats grass to feed the millions of bacteria in its stomach and their poop provides the cow with nutrition. So the next time you're eating steak remember how that evil bovine kept organisms hostage for their whole lives to meet its own nefarious ends

nervous_twitch

borderlinemeath wrote: »

There's lots of cultures that eat dog, not just Asians. Dogs were a big part of the inuit diet and of a lot of arctic travellers. Dogs play a major part in their lives, they use them for transport, to keep warm at night, and when times are tough they are used for food.

The main problem with the likes of the Yulin dog meat festival is the nature in which the animals are slaughtered. We frown on halal slaughtered meat but for some reason the Chinese take it a step further, and believe the meat tastes better if the dog is tortured beforehand :mad:. This includes boiling them, setting them alight etc. The outrage on facebook against the likes of these festivals is justified, but in Korea, there are some dogs bred specifically for their meat, they are slaughtered humanely and everything is registered and above board, not like in China.

TBH, I have zero interest in vegetarianism I love eating meat and fish but I would draw the line at dog. Purely because I keep them as pets and know the affection they give to humans. Maybe if I lived on a farm I would be the same with the little fluffy lambs, although they haven't been domesticated and become companion animals in the same way that dogs and cats have in our culture.

I appreciate your honesty. Stuck in the same circumstances, I imagine I would grab the hind leg of a dog also. But here in the 21st, theres no need for it,

nervous_twitch

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Technically, a cow eats grass to feed the millions of bacteria in its stomach and their poop provides the cow with nutrition. So the next time you're eating steak remember how that evil bovine kept organisms hostage for their whole lives to meet its own nefarious ends

Isnt that a bit backwards though You can identify it. Solve it.

Mesrine65

Shattering The Meat Myth: Humans Are Natural Vegetarians...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kathy-freston/shattering-the-meat-myth_b_214390.html

Playing Devil's advocate here...we may be natural vegetarians, but I for one, love nothing more than a nice piece of cooked, dead animal flesh on my plate.

Put simply, I like meat!

nervous_twitch

Mesrine65 wrote: »

Shattering The Meat Myth: Humans Are Natural Vegetarians...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kathy-freston/shattering-the-meat-myth_b_214390.html

Playing Devil's advocate here...we may be natural vegetarians, but I for one, love nothing more than a nice piece of cooked, dead animal flesh on my plate.

Put simply, I like meat!

Thanks for that. I agree. We like it.

Not to mention that vegetarians pluck living things from the ground to chop up before eating. That's not very humane, is it?

Pretzill

I wouldn't eat dogs, monkeys, crocodiles are any animals whose diet consists largely of meat. (I wouldn't eat dogs anyway because they are pets to me nor monkeys cause they are bright - but that's a moral argument.)

Most of the tastiest meat comes from vegetarians bar fish who eat fish from zoo plankton upwards.

Wouldn't be a lover of duck, chicken, turkey, game birds or pork (but I overlook the rule for bacon and ham)

But if I was told tomorrow meat was off the menu it wouldn't bother me - there are many other forms of protein to sustain us nowadays -

Junkyard Tom

nervous_twitch wrote: »

I imagine a lot of pseudo-macho-responses: 'wipe its arse and I'm ready to go' - 'cant beat a good steak and chips' etc.

Tickle its arse, kiss it on the mouth and I'm ready for supper.

Sir Osis of Liver.

NachoBusiness wrote: »

God I hate this nonsense response that always appears in these threads.

You're such a diva without your rasher sandwich.

nervous_twitch

Deleted User wrote: »

Not to mention that vegetarians pluck living things from the ground to chop up before eating. That's not very humane, is it?

Do you really want to argue that?

Whispered

Mesrine65 wrote: »

Put simply, I like meat!

I like this honesty. So many people come out with the "oh we need meat" or "I needed meat protien" excuses. No we don't, many people (athletes included) are perfectly healthy on vegetarian diets. Enjoying it is reason enough to eat it, you don't need to make up reasons.

iDave

OP you acknowledge humans are an apex predator and that we are intelligent.
Is it a surprise than we use our intelligence to kill effectively.

nervous_twitch

nervous_twitch wrote: »

Do you really want to argue that?

They eat, they grow, they reproduce. And by all accounts, they have the ability to communicate amongst themselves.

nervous_twitch

iDave wrote: »

OP you acknowledge humans are an apex predator and that we are intelligent.
Is it a surprise than we use our intelligence to kill effectively.

That says more about you, no? The apex of intelligence is to kill effectively.

pmasterson95

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I eat anything that could potentially eat me if it could.

Cant trust sheep

Junkyard Tom

Mesrine65 wrote: »

Put simply, I like meat!

Please don't lower the tone of the discussion.

NachoBusiness

Sir Osis of Liver. wrote: »

You're such a diva without your rasher sandwich.

True, order me a meal on Just Eat and we'll forget all about it.

pmasterson95

pmasterson95 wrote: »

Cant trust sheep

Well, cows do kill or injure around 10 people every year. That's more than sharks. Cows are essentially land sharks AND they contribute a massive amount to the deteriorating ozone layer, so we're actually doing good by eating them.

iDave

nervous_twitch wrote: »

That says more about you, no? The apex of intelligence is to kill effectively.

Says nothing about me at all.

Its the cold harsh reality of nature. Some animals have speed, some have stealth etc. Humans have intelligence. Its all about staying alive and prevailing. Evolutionary arms race.

nervous_twitch

So, stoking the flames a bit, the consensus is 'we enjoy eating meat' as opposed to there being anything wrong with it?

nervous_twitch

Maybe you're right. But we'lll always be a species until we learn to rise above.

nervous_twitch

nervous_twitch wrote: »

So, stoking the flames a bit, the consensus is 'we enjoy eating meat' as opposed to there being anything wrong with it?

Why is there anything wrong with eating meat? We're omnivores. Same as almost every animal throughout history. Just because you try to throw in recently made up morals doesn't make it wrong.

nervous_twitch

iDave wrote: »

Says nothing about me at all.

Its the cold harsh reality of nature. Some animals have speed, some have stealth etc. Humans have intelligence. Its all about staying alive and prevailing. Evolutionary arms race.

Maybe you're right. How far will we get though. The best measure of a species is how they can rise above. In my opinion

Carlos Orange

nervous_twitch wrote: »

are you OK to eat the flesh of living things and why?

If you don't want to eat the flesh of (formerly) living things why are you a vegetarian?

iDave

nervous_twitch wrote: »

Maybe you're right. How far will we get though. The best measure of a species is how they can rise above. In my opinion

We should rise above this unnecessary need to kill each other, treat animals cruely etc. But you cant escape your biology. Your a predator thats just been tamed a bit in post agricultural human society.

nervous_twitch

Deleted User wrote: »

Why is there anything wrong with eating meat? We're omnivores. Same as almost every animal throughout history. Just because you try to throw in recently made up morals doesn't make it wrong.

I'm not suggesting there's anything wrong with it. But it's our privilege to doubt that its making us any better. Why compare us with every animal in history.

Plus, like it or not, if it weren't for eating meat, we wouldn't be where we are as a species.

nervous_twitch

iDave wrote: »

We should rise above this unnecessary need to kill each other, treat animals cruely etc. But you cant escape your biology. Your a predator thats just been tamed a bit in post agricultural human society.

And I can survive quite adequately without destroying something else.

nervous_twitch

nervous_twitch wrote: »

I'm not suggesting there's anything wrong with it. But it's our privilege to doubt that its making us any better. Why compare us with every animal in history.

Because we are animals. Just like everything else. The only difference is that we have intelligence. If it weren't for that, we'd be no different to a sheep or a cow and some other animal would be eating us. And it's not making us better or worse; it's making us human.

nervous_twitch wrote: »

And I can survive quite adequately without destroying something else.

You can now, but only because there's the supplements that exist to replace what you are missing by eating meat.

meeeeh

nervous_twitch wrote: »

Maybe you're right. How far will we get though. The best measure of a species is how they can rise above. In my opinion

If the answer to this is eating soya and wearing plastic clothing/shoes and harming environment then I am afraid we are getting nowhere.

nervous_twitch

Deleted User wrote: »

Because we are animals. Just like everything else. The only difference is that we have intelligence. If it weren't for that, we'd be no different to a sheep or a cow and some other animal would be eating us. And it's not making us better or worse; it's making us human.



You can now, but only because there's the supplements that exist to replace what you are missing by eating meat.

We're more than that though. We have the world at our hands.. our intelligence is separating us.

nervous_twitch

meeeeh wrote: »

If the answer to this is eating soya and wearing plastic clothing/shoes and harming environment then I am afraid we are getting nowhere.

Everyone likes a croc

iDave

nervous_twitch wrote: »

And I can survive quite adequately without destroying something else.

You eat an apple and throw the core with the seeds in the bin instead of letting it settle into the ground as nature intended so your not as helpful as you think.