Why UK arrivals must go through passport control at DUB

FWVT

Stupid question maybe, but bear with me.

Why is there no separate channel for UK arrivals at DUB T1? It's not right to have to queue up at passport-control when there is no requirement. What's the reason?

Also, a hypothetical situation. You travel from the UK using just a driver's license, arrive at the checkpoint and tell the guy you arrived from the UK. He asks to see your boarding card, which is on the app on your phone, the battery of which has just died. You don't have a printed copy. What then?

TheChizler

You don't need a passport but proof of nationality might be required. Flashed an ID coming back to Cork from London once and got held up until I could get my passport out of my bag to prove I was Irish.

FWVT

TheChizler wrote: »

You don't need a passport but proof of nationality might be required. Flashed an ID coming back to Cork from London once and got held up until I could get my passport out of my bag to prove I was Irish.

I arrived at Luton on Sunday night. Walked off the plane, within 5 minutes I was getting into taxi. Not one check of any documentation whatsoever.

TheChizler

FWVT wrote: »

I arrived at Luton on Sunday night. Walked off the plane, within 5 minutes I was getting into taxi. Not one check of any documentation whatsoever.

Never been checked going to the UK actually, only time I had hassle was coming back to Cork!

fr336

God is it really so much hassle....you even have a computer doing it for you now... First world problems

LXFlyer

FWVT wrote: »

Stupid question maybe, but bear with me.

Why is there no separate channel for UK arrivals at DUB T1? It's not right to have to queue up at passport-control when there is no requirement. What's the reason?

Also, a hypothetical situation. You travel from the UK using just a driver's license, arrive at the checkpoint and tell the guy you arrived from the UK. He asks to see your boarding card, which is on the app on your phone, the battery of which has just died. You don't have a printed copy. What then?

The derogation from having a passport while travelling within the CTA only applies to Irish and UK citizens. Everyone else requires a passport.

How could you enforce that without checking everyone?

LXFlyer

FWVT wrote: »

I arrived at Luton on Sunday night. Walked off the plane, within 5 minutes I was getting into taxi. Not one check of any documentation whatsoever.

TheChizler wrote: »

Never been checked going to the UK actually, only time I had hassle was coming back to Cork!

On a recent flight to London City Airport from Dublin, UK Border Force officials made a full inspection of all passengers' ID before entering the baggage hall, so I would suggest that this is changing, with perhaps more spot checks being made.

368100

My problem is the queues at DUB for checking. Never saw it anywhere near as bad at any other European airport.

Then they make it worse by herding people to the self service machines that don't work. Every time I have to argue with them that my passport doesn't have a chip in it do I can't use it. Some of the staff don't even know that themselves.

FWVT

fr336 wrote: »

God is it really so much hassle....you even have a computer doing it for you now... First world problems

Yes it is when I don't have a chip and pin passport.

LXFlyer

368100 wrote: »

My problem is the queues at DUB for checking. Never saw it anywhere near as bad at any other European airport.

Then they make it worse by herding people to the self service machines that don't work. Every time I have to argue with them that my passport doesn't have a chip in it do I can't use it. Some of the staff don't even know that themselves.

They are supposed to have resolved this by hiring sufficient civilian staff by the end of the year.

Personally I find there's never any queue at the 3XX gates, used by BA, LH, LX.

duffman13

fr336 wrote: »

God is it really so much hassle....you even have a computer doing it for you now... First world problems

Well it's a bit of an inconvenience and nobody has really answered the question. Why is it a requirement in Ireland and not in the UK? Most of the time it's not an issue for me and I travel back and forth regularly but now in summer it was 20 mins for me getting through the other night.

fr336

duffman13 wrote: »

Well it's a bit of an inconvenience and nobody has really answered the question. Why is it a requirement in Ireland and not in the UK? Most of the time it's not an issue for me and I travel back and forth regularly but now in summer it was 20 mins for me getting through the other night.

Anyone and everyone can come to the UK, haven't you heard :cool:

FWVT

lxflyer wrote: »

The derogation from having a passport while travelling within the CTA only applies to Irish and UK citizens. Everyone else requires a passport.

How could you enforce that without checking everyone?

So how can I walk off a flight in Luton without any checks?

LXFlyer

duffman13 wrote: »

Well it's a bit of an inconvenience and nobody has really answered the question. Why is it a requirement in Ireland and not in the UK? Most of the time it's not an issue for me and I travel back and forth regularly but now in summer it was 20 mins for me getting through the other night.

Quite simply because the Irish immigration authorities have decided to check everyone entering our country is entitled to do so.

The UK seem happy to accept that the Irish are checking people initially and that spot checks on CTA flights are sufficient.

LXFlyer

FWVT wrote: »

So how can I walk off a flight in Luton without any checks?

As above.

Ireland is a different country to the UK and different rules can apply.

theteal

Is the queue ever that bad? I've come through there close to 100 times over the last 8-9 years its never taken more than a couple of minutes.

LXFlyer

theteal wrote: »

Is the queue ever that bad? I've come through there close to 100 times over the last 8-9 years its never taken more than a couple of minutes.

The 1XX-2XX arrivals and T2 can have serious issues.

The 1XX and 2XX arrivals in particular (Ryanair, Flybe, Cityjet).

The 3XX arrivals never have a problem.

368100

theteal wrote: »

Is the queue ever that bad? I've come through there close to 100 times over the last 8-9 years its never taken more than a couple of minutes.

20 mins last week and 45 mins the time before that

theteal

I came through last Wednesday evening from Stansted, as usual it took about 2 minutes, about 6-7 people in front of me at the line. I have experienced a proper queue once or twice there but the gards fly through the passports so its still no longer than 5 minutes.

Senecio

Wouldn't they need to segregate UK arrivals from all others to enable this? That's not likely to happen so everyone has to be checked.

LXFlyer

Senecio wrote: »

Wouldn't they need to segregate UK arrivals from all others to enable this? That's not likely to happen so everyone has to be checked.

They would still have to check everyone coming from the UK, as non-Irish and UK nationals are not exempt from the requirement to have a passport, and some will require visas.

FWVT

lxflyer wrote: »

They would still have to check everyone coming from the UK, as non-Irish and UK nationals are not exempt from the requirement to have a passport, and some will require visas.

But they segregate them in the UK, and non-Schengen arrivals are segregated in other EU countries, so it can be done. What's to stop a non-EU national requiring a visa from entering the UK via Ireland?

LXFlyer

FWVT wrote: »

But they segregate them in the UK, and non-Schengen arrivals are segregated in other EU countries, so it can be done. What's to stop a non-EU national requiring a visa from entering the UK via Ireland?

That's an issue for the UK authorities I suggest and based on my experience at London City they may well be expanding their spot checks. Several non-Irish and UK nationals were taken aside off my flight.

The bottom line is that the Irish authorities have decided that everyone flying into the country should be checked.

They are two different sovereign states and can do what they wish, whether you like it or not.

I suspect the same rules apply internally if you were flying to and from Donegal / Kerry to Dublin...

I flew over to London a couple of years ago and had no Drivers Licence/Passport, so I used my Seamans Passport as ID, showed at the Garda, and once he heard my accent, he happily waved me on..

KingBrian2

We are not in the Schengen Zone, we have separate travel arrangements from the continent. Something to do with being Island nations and having common flight destinations like America, Australia and New Zealand.

hu.me

FWVT wrote: »

But they segregate them in the UK, and non-Schengen arrivals are segregated in other EU countries, so it can be done. What's to stop a non-EU national requiring a visa from entering the UK via Ireland?

Irish immigration can refuse someone entry to Ireland if they intend to travel to the UK and would not qualify for entry there, they use the Irish immigration legislation, specifically section 4 of the immigration act 2004, section 4, reason h

hu.me

.

moc moc a moc

FWVT wrote: »

So how can I walk off a flight in Luton without any checks?

Ask Luton.

FWVT

lxflyer wrote: »

That's an issue for the UK authorities I suggest and based on my experience at London City they may well be expanding their spot checks. Several non-Irish and UK nationals were taken aside off my flight.

How did they know they were not Irish or UK?

The bottom line is that the Irish authorities have decided that everyone flying into the country should be checked.

They are two different sovereign states and can do what they wish, whether you like it or not.

So basically the rule is that to enter the Republic of Ireland by air from the UK you must have a passport or National I.D. card, but by boat anyone can enter with no ID?

FWVT

moc moc a moc wrote: »

Ask Luton.

And Stansted.

FWVT

hu.me wrote: »

Irish immigration can refuse someone entry to Ireland if they intend to travel to the UK and would not qualify for entry there, they use the Irish immigration legislation, specifically section 4 of the immigration act 2004, section 4, reason h

How will they know they intend to travel to the UK? They could stay here a while before flying there. No passports are checked when flying out of Ireland.

highlydebased

lxflyer wrote:

On a recent flight to London City Airport from Dublin, UK Border Force officials made a full inspection of all passengers' ID before entering the baggage hall, so I would suggest that this is changing, with perhaps more spot checks being made.

I had the same experience at LHR after a number of flights from Shannon lately. There was a good 15 officers every time which made me think they were looking for someone however it was the same everytime

LXFlyer

FWVT wrote: »

How did they know they were not Irish or UK?

So basically the rule is that to enter the Republic of Ireland by air from the UK you must have a passport or National I.D. card, but by boat anyone can enter with no ID?

Their foreign passports might have been the giveaway when asked for ID as they entered the terminal?

I've been stopped and asked for ID coming off ferries in both Holyhead and Dublin.

With respect you're going on and on about this. As I've said above, we are two sovereign independent states which are entitled to enforce immigration laws as they see fit.

Ireland checks everyone entering the state at our airports. That's the decision that our authorities made.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

billie1b

FWVT wrote: »

How will they know they intend to travel to the UK? They could stay here a while before flying there. No passports are checked when flying out of Ireland.

What? Where? My passport has always been checked leaving Ireland

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

billie1b

Fred Swanson wrote: »

Not by immigration.

Oh ok, didn't know they were talking about immigration

FWVT

lxflyer wrote: »

Their foreign passports might have been the giveaway when asked for ID as they entered the terminal?

I've been stopped and asked for ID coming off ferries in both Holyhead and Dublin.

With respect you're going on and on about this. As I've said above, we are two sovereign independent states which are entitled to enforce immigration laws as they see fit.

Ireland checks everyone entering the state at our airports. That's the decision that our authorities made.

Ah, so they were pulled aside because their passports were checked. Not quite what I am referring to. In some airports no identification is checked whatsoever. Luton and Stansted are two examples. So I am "going on about it" because nobody has yet explained why you will be checked at some airports and not at others.

I am not complaining about the rule, just wondering why the discrepancy. I have never been checked driving off a ferry from the UK. Maybe someone else is able to give an answer.

FWVT

Fred Swanson wrote: »

Irish citizens do not have to show a passport to enter Ireland. Once they can establish their identify/nationality by other means they will be allowed to enter.

So in my hypothetical case in my first post, a driver's license would suffice at passport control?

Noxegon

theteal wrote: »

Is the queue ever that bad? I've come through there close to 100 times over the last 8-9 years its never taken more than a couple of minutes.

I had to wait just shy of two hours one evening after a late arrival (~11:30pm) into the B gate pier. I got through fairly quickly but my partner, who is American, had to wait in the slow queue.

LXFlyer

FWVT wrote: »

Ah, so they were pulled aside because their passports were checked. Not quite what I am referring to. In some airports no identification is checked whatsoever. Luton and Stansted are two examples. So I am "going on about it" because nobody has yet explained why you will be checked at some airports and not at others.

I am not complaining about the rule, just wondering why the discrepancy. I have never been checked driving off a ferry from the UK. Maybe someone else is able to give an answer.

You don't seem to be reading my posts. Heretofore there had not been any check at LCY. But off this flight there was a full passport/ID check of every passenger as we walked into the terminal.

Another poster has mentioned checks off flights at LHR from SNN recently, somewhere that there is normally no checks.

Putting two and two together would tell me that the UK Border Force is doing increased levels of spot checks.

You would have to ask the UK Border Force about their procedures - I doubt you will get an answer from them as it relates to national security.

As for Ireland, there are full checks at every airport and spot checks at the ports. Why the distinction - again you'd have to ask the Irish authorities and again I doubt you'll get an answer.

MuffinsDa

FWVT wrote: »

So in my hypothetical case in my first post, a driver's license would suffice at passport control?

No, a driver's license is not proof of nationality.
The CTA law around this is really stupid: how are they going to know if someone is Irish or UK citizen without seeing their passport? By checking if their name is Sean or Patrick or James?!

Last Wednesday I decided to put this to test when I was coming back from London. I gave my Driver's license to Passport Control upon arrival at T2(even though I had my passport with me). Now I am a naturalised Irish citizen and have a name that clearly is not Irish. Plus the driver's license give you the place of birth.

The officer (not civilian) had a quick look at it, smiled and said "where are you coming from A?" I said London. He said "Tottenham fan?" I said "No, Arsenal!". He said "That's shocking! Go ahead then!" (and no my place of birth is not Israel )

I don't know how he could establish my citizenship with that ID and that conversation other than if he remember me from previous weeks, but there you go!

Tabnabs

Southampton used to be very light on security for the Dublin flight, just a couple of policemen watching the passengers come through. But last month they had full ID checks for all passengers.

ohnonotgmail

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

why would passports be checked by immigration when leaving ireland? Your passport/id are checked by the airline at the gate as it is the airline that is responsible if you cannot clear immigration at the destination.

FWVT

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

why would passports be checked by immigration when leaving ireland? Your passport/id are checked by the airline at the gate as it is the airline that is responsible if you cannot clear immigration at the destination.

No, the traveler is responsible for that. Ilearned that the hard way.

ohnonotgmail

FWVT wrote: »

No, the traveler is responsible for that. Ilearned that the hard way.

really? always thought it was the airlines responsibility.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

munchkin_utd

MuffinsDa wrote: »

No, a driver's license is not proof of nationality.
The CTA law around this is really stupid: how are they going to know if someone is Irish or UK citizen without seeing their passport? By checking if their name is Sean or Patrick or James?!
<snip>

simple, like in the old days.
Garda : "How 'r ya"
Me : "grand" (and the odd time, "could be worse") - in a fairly distinctive, yet relatively mild, Cavan accent
Garda: "Where are you coming from"
Me : "Germany"
Garda : "Go on"

Obviously different versions of the above involving GAA teams, how long are you abroad etc. could occur, but for years the last thing they wanted was to see a passport/ ID document.

indeed, thanks to mass immigration the accent / topical knowledge check is now no longer acceptable as the primary proof, but anyone born in the country would have enough of an accent and knowledge of random facts that you'd establish quick enough that they are Irish.

The last time I went through Dublin in April the passport was "required", but once they saw the cut of me and an irish passport in the hand that was enough for the passport checker fella without even actually looking at the passport.

Its a pity they dont say "Welcome home" to you like aparantly the US border guards supposedly do. That'd be a nice touch.

Bummer1234

I got a "welcome home" before of one of the gaurds, Not sure if it was coming of a new york flight or Gatwick flight,

Anyway, I remember travelling to gatwick from Dublin and Ordinary police officers i think(not airport police) where doing checks in the hallway om the way to the immigration checks, It was a first i had seen and abit of a hold up but nothing over 5 minutes. Then we went on to show our boarding passes and passport in the "Irish,Channel islands" lane.

MuffinsDa

The fact remains though that the law in that area is really inadequate and vague and should be improved, or else passport check removed from UK arrivals the same way as the (vast majority) of arrivals from Ireland in the UK. While an informal chat to suss people out may be pleasant, it's no replacement for a proper law.

I imagine a good bit of this is due to airport infrastructure and the willingness of the DAA to segregate ALL those UK flights from all the other ones to allow people like they do in the UK simply walk off the flight and exit.

Remember one thing Ireland has more UK connections than any UK airport therefore it has a lot more aircraft to go to this separate area or a lot more divided arrivals routes for these passengers. I arrived into Gatwick recently and having got off the aircraft via the airbridge we had to immediately leave the building to be bussed to the arrivals area. Imagine doing that for every UK flight arriving into Dublin.

I arrived back from Heathrow a few weeks back and it took me 30secs to get through passport control flight arrived at 1930, yes I have been stook there for 20mins.