Immigration Control in Dublin airport

skuscuoglu

My friend from non-eu nationality came to Ireland for language course couple of days ago. During passport control, gardai asked him about some letters not being consistent in his visa (he is not sure what they asked exactly because his English is not very good). Then he showed the copies of his documents such as letter from the language school. Gardai said to him that they are copies not the originals but the originals are given to the consulate for visa, which is the regular process. Then they moved him a room and checked his phone, during that time they asked him some questions, asked him to prove that he is a student in his country, and did not let him go to toilet or anything, 5-6 six different people come (i think gardai and inis people). After half an hour, a woman came, check the passport and said that "he is a student, let him pass." Then he is allowed to enter the country.
What do you think? Is this normal? Do you think if any legal action can be taken? That's the first time I have ever heard such thing in Ireland?

MarkAnthony

Discomfort aside, which is relatively common Garda practice, I see no issue with a robust immigration process.

Asmooh

What do you think? Is this normal? Yes because everyone can say anything they want.

Better too much check than not enough

ohnonotgmail

So they took him onto a private room, checked his documents for 30 minutes, and then let him go? Doesnt sound unreasonable to me.

Fred Swanson

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ohnonotgmail

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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for 30 minutes?

skuscuoglu

they also asked him, why his visa starts 20 days before the starting day of school. This doesn't make any sense since you have to apply approx 1 month before the intended date to travel to the country. Also the questions about the documents being not original but copies does not make sense. You won't be getting any visa unless you present those documents to the consulate. And they told him he needs to prove that he is a student in five mins (yes they gave a time). I feel like there was an incompetence officer dealing with him.

Fred Swanson

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Asmooh

skuscuoglu wrote: »

they also asked him, why his visa starts 20 days before the starting day of school. This doesn't make any sense since you have to apply approx 1 month before the intended date to travel to the country. Also the questions about the documents being not original but copies does not make sense. You won't be getting any visa unless you present those documents to the consulate. And they told him he needs to prove that he is a student in five mins (yes they gave a time). I feel like there was an incompetence officer dealing with him.

Everything can be faked..

skuscuoglu

Asmooh wrote: »

Everything can be faked..

what you say does not make any sense. What is the point?

skuscuoglu

Asmooh wrote: »

Everything can be faked..

what you say does not make any sense. What is your point?

Fred Swanson

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skuscuoglu

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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the consulate takes the original documents and does not give it back. So how does it work, can you please tell me?

Fred Swanson

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Asmooh

skuscuoglu wrote: »

what you say does not make any sense. What is the point?

That they had all right to check everything, even call up to the country/school to verify all information before even thinking about leaving the person in the EU. (and they should have called all official agency's and both schools to verify it. Then call the Government and see if the visa is real.)

Even the visa looks real, it may be real but maybe it's a fake, just because something look real doesn't mean it is.

munchkin_utd

that his immigration credentials were thoroughly checked is grounds for praise of the guards, not legal action.

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy

skuscuoglu wrote: »

Do you think if any legal action can be taken? That's the first time I have ever heard such thing in Ireland?

Tell your 'friend' to forget about trying to sue anyone. The Gardai are known for being blunt during questioning. By asking to go to the toilet they probably thought he was being evasive, if he'd kicked up enough fuss they would have let him use it, but you can be sure he'd have been kept on a lot longer.

I was grilled by two Cuban immigration officials because of a misprint on my itinerary, it's a pain in the ass, but all you can do is suck it up and move on. He got into the country, he wasn't sent home, so mission accomplished and good luck with the studies.

Fred Swanson

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ohnonotgmail

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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Perhaps we should establish if there are any grounds to criticise before engaging in whattaboutery.

Fred Swanson

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Madd Finn

I'm with the non eu national. (Speaking as a born and bred Irish national).

The whole point of immigration control is process. Visitors need to know what are the reasonable procedures to which they must adhere; immigration officials need to check that people have adhered to them.

What's all that bollox about copies of letters being unacceptable? If originals are required then other parts of the process, such as visa applications, have to take cognisance of this and either accept copies as part of their procedures or return the originals to the applicant immediately. It seems that at the end he was let through on a whim, so I suspect there was no foundation to the offical's "concerns".

What right have they to check somebody's phone? Is this permissible? If not, will the gardai/officials be disciplined? What were they expecting to find?

If he has to prove that he is a student then it should be clear what documentation he needs to verify that. If an acceptance letter from an accredited college is insufficient then what is?

This all sounds to me like some jumped up johnny in immigration has been watching too many of those fly on the wall documentary series like "Border Security" or whatever which highlight uniformed border security people behaving like absolute dicks and thought: "Hey!! I can do that"!

Don't like immigration officials. Of any nationality. But especially American ones. (Mind you. I've always got in :P)

skuscuoglu

He doesn't care that much since he is only here for one month and already regrets that he has chosen ireland to study english. However, I asked the question because it may happen to me at any point as I live and work here legally as non-eu resident and i travel a lot, facing with immigration officers a lot. I haven't had any problems so far but in case I would have, I just wanted to know my rights.

Asmooh

skuscuoglu wrote: »

He doesn't care that much since he is only here for one month and already regrets that he has chosen ireland to study english. However, I asked the question because it may happen to me at any point as I live and work here legally as non-eu resident and i travel a lot, facing with immigration officers a lot. I haven't had any problems so far but in case I would have, I just wanted to know my rights.

You don't have rights, You are Non-EU.

skuscuoglu

Asmooh wrote: »

You don't have rights, You are Non-EU.

At least they don't shot me wherever they saw me. That's something

Asmooh

skuscuoglu wrote: »

At least they don't shot me wherever they saw me. That's something

Good point

Victor

Some people, from certain countries, have no compunction in making fake photocopies - just like copying music is popular here.

the_syco

Madd Finn wrote: »

The whole point of immigration control is process.

A random check can often be just a random check.

Madd Finn wrote: »

What's all that bollox about copies of letters being unacceptable? If originals are required then other parts of the process, such as visa applications, have to take cognisance of this and either accept copies as part of their procedures or return the originals to the applicant immediately.

To see what his answer is, and to see how he answers it. The OP leaves out if their friend was fidgety, or doing something that could be seen as suspicious, and/or have been seen talking to someone suspicious.

Madd Finn wrote: »

It seems that at the end he was let through on a whim, so I suspect there was no foundation to the offical's "concerns".

It seems his documentation checked out, and he was let in to Ireland.

Madd Finn wrote: »

What right have they to check somebody's phone? Is this permissible?

Pretty sure if they have grounds of reason, they can ask to check it. If he had refused to allow the Garai to look at his phone, I'm sure this would have raised questions, and they may have needed a warrant. Not 100% sure on the procedure here, however.

Madd Finn wrote: »

If he has to prove that he is a student then it should be clear what documentation he needs to verify that. If an acceptance letter from an accredited college is insufficient then what is?

There have been a few (12 or 13?) english language colleges shut down over the past year in Ireland; a letter means nowt.

Madd Finn wrote: »

Don't like immigration officials. Of any nationality.

I find them annoying. The French ones sometimes like to make you aware of their Steyr AUG assault rifles, and that they have a number of dogs watching you.

skuscuoglu wrote: »

He doesn't care that much since he is only here for one month

I'm thinking this is probably what raised some flags. A lot of the english courses seem to be part-time, spread over a few months.

K.Flyer

There are a lot of problems with "students" arriving in Ireland to study English only to vanish into the illegal immigrant workforce.
This coupled with many English Teaching Colleges suddenly shutting up shop and vanishing leaves immigration controls to keep a more vigilant eye on things. They were only doing their job.
Half an hour of questioning is nothing, it could take you longer than that to get through some standard security checks in any Airport.

conorh91

K.Flyer wrote: »

There are a lot of problems with "students" arriving in Ireland to study English only to vanish into the illegal immigrant workforce.

Define a lot?

I've never heard of this being a problem of any significance, nor have I ever heard of Ireland having a significant burden of shadow-economy workers at all. Unless, maybe, about 1% of Irish-resident welfare claimants.

The English language industry is actually quite a valuable asset to Dublin in particular, especially the night-time economy. A lot of these students are middle-class university graduates from the likes of Latin America and Asia.

We'd do well not to make our administration look so incompetent in this area, which unfortunately, has been a reasonable perception in recent times.

vector

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

So they took him onto a private room, checked his documents for 30 minutes, and then let him go? Doesnt sound unreasonable to me.

you see this all the time on that australian "border patrol" programme that's on satellite channels, glad to see it's happening in ireland also, border controls are necessary

Fred Swanson

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MarkAnthony

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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I had a similar experience when we took a wrong turn in Canada and ended up going over the bridge into the US sans the wife's passport. Contrary to the OP's experience I had no problem going either, in fact I needed to go with some alacrity - they're scary when they want to be!

lanos

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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they might think he would dispose of drugs in toilet

draiochtanois

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Fred Swanson

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ohnonotgmail

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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stopping somebody from going to the toilet for 30 minutes is abusing human rights? Somebody call amnesty international quick.

Fred Swanson

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ohnonotgmail

Police state? oh dear.

draiochtanois

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bucketybuck

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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Fred Swanson wrote: »

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Fred Swanson wrote: »

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Fred Swanson wrote: »

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Fred Swanson wrote: »

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Fred Swanson wrote: »

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Now I really need to use the toilet.

Fred Swanson

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Carlos Orange

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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I'd like to hear more on you stance on the fasten seatbelt sign on planes.

Fred Swanson

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draiochtanois

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Carlos Orange

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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Unless someone was arrested that page is irrelevant.

Fred Swanson

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Fred Swanson

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Carlos Orange

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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I strongly suspect the Criminal Justice Act 1984 (Treatment of Persons in Custody in Garda Síochána Stations) only applies to people in Garda Síochána Stations.

Fred Swanson

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bucketybuck

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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He could have gotten back on a plane if he wanted to.

Fred Swanson

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