Muslim group outside the Cineplex.

Ralf and Florian

Anyone know what the story is with this crowd who are outside the former Cineplex site every saturday and who they're connected with?I'm all for people being free to practise their own religious beliefs but I get a sense that this bunch are shoving it down peoples throats.

Sonics2k

No worse than those guys who stand outside the old Modern belting on about Jesus.
Personally I think they should all sod off.

Ralf and Florian

Sonics2k wrote: »

No worse than those guys who stand outside the old Modern belting on about Jesus.
Personally I think they should all sod off.

Well we know where we stand with that crowd,and the pesky Mormons annoying you when youre out and about.The issue with the muslim group is if they have connections with extremists.I don't ever see them condemming the likes of Isis or Islamic extremism.They also had a banner yesterday that said something like "One Billion people are not eating or drinking today" or something similar.I found it a bit distastful that on the same day you have islamic extremists slaughtering people in Tunisia for daring to enjoy themselves on the beach and all this crowd are concerned with is narrow orthodox rituals that mean nothing to the vast majority of people passing them on the street.

the beer revolu

I've never found them in your face at all. I've passed them many times and never been approached.
There is nearly always a group of Jahova's Witnesses just down from them. Don't they bother you at all?
Regularly Catholics with banners and statues in Daunt's Square. Pretty hard to miss them.

As long as they all leave me and government alone I've no more of a problem with one group over another but like another poster, I'd prefer if none of them were around.

I find it odd that the OP singles out the Muslims.
In your face how?

the beer revolu

Ralf and Florian wrote: »

Well we know where we stand with that crowd,and the pesky Mormons annoying you when youre out and about.The issue with the muslim group is if they have connections with extremists.I don't ever see them condemming the likes of Isis or Islamic extremism.They also had a banner yesterday that said something like "One Billion people are not eating or drinking today" or something similar.I found it a bit distastful that on the same day you have islamic extremists slaughtering people in Tunisia for daring to enjoy themselves on the beach and all this crowd are concerned with is narrow orthodox rituals that mean nothing to the vast majority of people passing them on the street.

So all practising Muslims are extremists connected to terrorism and fundamentalism?

Are all Christians responsible for the acts of Christian extremists.

The KKK are a Christian organisation.
Should my Christian mother feel responsible for their actions?

the beer revolu

OP, have you engaged with them and asked if they support extremism?
If not, how would you know whether they condemn such actions or not?

Ralf and Florian

the beer revolu wrote: »

I've never found them in your face at all. I've passed them many times and never been approached.
There is nearly always a group of Jahova's Witnesses just down from them. Don't they bother you at all?
Regularly Catholics with banners and statues in Daunt's Square. Pretty hard to miss them.

As long as they all leave me and government alone I've no more of a problem with one group over another but like another poster, I'd prefer if none of them were around.

I find it odd that the OP singles out the Muslims.
In your face how?

All religious fundamentalists bother me.The catholic group with the statues are ridiculious but face it,in about ten years or so most of them will be dead and I don't see them trying to recruit people.Jehovas witnesses bother me a great deal,especially when they come knocking on the door.The issue I have with the musulim groups is we've seen in other European countries muslim groups demand things such as sharia law,special treatment over other groups and "muslim patrols" in areas with high muslim numbers and no attempt to integrate into wider society,this group outside the cineplex I see as part of a wider trend.

Ralf and Florian

the beer revolu wrote: »

So all practising Muslims are extremists connected to terrorism and fundamentalism?

Are all Christians responsible for the acts of Christian extremists.

The KKK are a Christian organisation.
Should my Christian mother feel responsible for their actions?

Have you seen the KKK handing out leaflets localy recently?They are for the most part consigned to the Southern United States,they have support among a minority of white supremacists in Europe including probably a handful here but I don't see a mass movement of recruits to their cause in the way that we've seen with Isis.

the beer revolu

But OP, you are making the assumption that because these people are Muslim, that they must be supporters of extremism and terrorism.

I want to see less religion in our society, not more but attitudes like yours marginalises groups and encourages fundamentalism.

Our laws no longer really reflect Ireland's Catholic past. WTF would we start adopting Muslim laws?

the beer revolu

Ralf and Florian wrote: »

Have you seen the KKK handing out leaflets localy recently?They are for the most part consigned to the Southern United States,they have support among a minority of white supremacists in Europe including probably a handful here but I don't see a mass movement of recruits to their cause in the way that we've seen with Isis.

You've seen Isis recruiting in Cork?
I hope you went straight to the Guards!

Wait.

You have an issue with them practicing their religion on the day a terrorist attack happened?

That's.. That's.. Ludicrous! They are free to practice their religion whenever they want, wherever they want. Regardless of whatever else happens in the world.

Take that church shooting, which was a white on black killing. Should I feel ashamed and reject people because I share the same skin colour? Because I have the same skin colour of KKK members, does that mean I have an association with them?

You're essentially saying the exact same as these Muslim people. They share the same religion, that's all.

Tell me, OP, are you also the kind of person that feels uneasy whenever a Muslim looking person boards the same plane as you?

the beer revolu

Look, I don't want to see Islam taking hold in our society any more than i want to see the Catholic church regain its influence.

But to look at a Muslim and see a terrorist or even assume their support for terrorist acts is prejudiced and racist.

Ralf and Florian

The unofficial mosque on Shandon St has had some interesting guests.

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/105408.

Saipanne

Rabble rabble rabble

Ralf and Florian

the beer revolu wrote: »

Look, I don't want to see Islam taking hold in our society any more than i want to see the Catholic church regain it's influence.

But to look at a Muslim and see a terrorist or even assume their support for terrorist acts is prejudiced and racist.

Since when were Muslims a race?Theyre no more an ethnic group than Methodists or Hare Krishnas.

Saipanne

Ralf and Florian wrote: »

Since when were Muslims a race?Theyre no more an ethnic group than Methodists or Hare Chrisnas.

I agree. Not a race at all.

the beer revolu

Ralf and Florian wrote: »

Since when were Muslims a race?Theyre no more an ethnic group than Methodists or Hare Krishnas.

Fair enough.
Not racist.
Prejudiced and zenophobic and ignorant.

Ralf and Florian

Deleted User wrote: »

Wait.

You have an issue with them practicing their religion on the day a terrorist attack happened?

That's.. That's.. Ludicrous! They are free to practice their religion whenever they want, wherever they want. Regardless of whatever else happens in the world.

Take that church shooting, which was a white on black killing. Should I feel ashamed and reject people because I share the same skin colour? Because I have the same skin colour of KKK members, does that mean I have an association with them?

You're essentially saying the exact same as these Muslim people. They share the same religion, that's all.

Tell me, OP, are you also the kind of person that feels uneasy whenever a Muslim looking person boards the same plane as you?

They can practise their religion all they want.However if I were to go to most majority muslim nations and stand on a street handing out leaflets espousing secularism or any kind of ideology that went counter to muslim beliefs I'd say I wouldn't last too long.

Sonics2k

Ralf and Florian wrote: »

Well we know where we stand with that crowd,and the pesky Mormons annoying you when youre out and about.The issue with the muslim group is if they have connections with extremists.I don't ever see them condemming the likes of Isis or Islamic extremism.They also had a banner yesterday that said something like "One Billion people are not eating or drinking today" or something similar.I found it a bit distastful that on the same day you have islamic extremists slaughtering people in Tunisia for daring to enjoy themselves on the beach and all this crowd are concerned with is narrow orthodox rituals that mean nothing to the vast majority of people passing them on the street.

What a load of absolute crap.
Muslim =/= terrorist.

You may as well try claiming that being Catholic in Northern Ireland = IRA supporter.

QuinDixie

Serious question - Why are they even here?
Ireland should have a policy that only allows Christians who are being persecuted in Africa and Middle East into this country.
Protect our own.
Muslims are a dangerous breed and i believe the rise of Muslim extremism across Europe draws parallels with the rise of the Right in 1920s Europe.

Thankfully their numbers here are small, lets keep that way.

Not a NSA agent

QuinDixie wrote: »

Serious question - Why are they even here?
Ireland should have a policy that only allows Christians who are being persecuted in Africa and Middle East into this country.
Protect our own.
Muslims are a dangerous breed and i believe the rise of Muslim extremism across Europe draws parallels with the rise of the Right in 1920s Europe.

Thankfully their numbers here are small, lets keep that way.

Nice to know Im welcome in my own country as a non Christian

QuinDixie

Not a NSA agent wrote: »

Nice to know Im welcome in my own country as a non Christian

are u a muslim?

Not a NSA agent

QuinDixie wrote: »

are u a muslim?

Nope, there's more than Muslims and Christians in this world.

You do know that there's nothing stopping an Irish person becoming a Muslim though right?

the beer revolu

QuinDixie wrote: »

Serious question - Why are they even here?
Ireland should have a policy that only allows Christians who are being persecuted in Africa and Middle East into this country.
Protect our own.
.

Are you serious?
What do you mean, protect our own?

Like it or not, Ireland is not a Christian country.
I am Irish. I am not Christian. Most of my friends are not Christian
I have no more affinity with foreign Christians than i have with foreign Muslims.
How do you know where these people are from?
Maybe they are Irish. Maybe EU citizens.

KCAccidental

Ralf and Florian wrote: »

They can practise their religion all they want.However if I were to go to most majority muslim nations and stand on a street handing out leaflets espousing secularism or any kind of ideology that went counter to muslim beliefs I'd say I wouldn't last too long.

and? If we start judging people on their religion and limiting their right to expression here in Ireland, then we would be no better than Saudi or Iran etc.

your point has nothing to do with the post you quoted.

Frank Grimes

QuinDixie wrote: »

Muslims are a dangerous breed and i believe the rise of Muslim extremism across Europe draws parallels with the rise of the Right in 1920s Europe.

I'm guessing the irony of using dehumanising language and then going on to use that analogy is completely lost on you.

QuinDixie

the beer revolu wrote: »

Are you serious?
What do you mean, protect our own?

Like it or not, Ireland is not a Christian country.
I am Irish. I am not Christian. Most of my friends are not Christian
I have no more affinity with foreign Christians than i have with foreign Muslims.
How do you know where these people are from?
Maybe they are Irish. Maybe EU citizens.

All refugees we accept should be Christians who are being persecuted by Muslims.
You can like it or not, Ireland is still a Christian country.

QuinDixie

Not a NSA agent wrote: »

Nope, there's more than Muslims and Christians in this world.

You do know that there's nothing stopping an Irish person becoming a Muslim though right?

But what did you mean by nice to be accepted in my own country statement.
What did that mean, What does it have to do with Muslims and Christians when you are neither.

Any adult that switches between any 2 religions, they are the ones to never be trusted.

SpaceTime

Ireland is a post enlightenment, liberal democracy in most areas of life.

The issue I have is any religious group trying to run the state or operate their own legal systems. So far, the only groups to have attempted that have been Christian. Magdalene laundries etc being an example of a parallel religious judicial and prison system having been in operation.

We need solid separation of church and state though and a proper secular setup.

Lack of secular public schools is just going to cause ghettoisation and fragmentation as the country becomes more diverse.

It also provides space for extremist views to be merged into education.

That's not down to anything other than the Catholic church's stranglehold on education and the total lack of a public school system which will inevitably cause calls for more religious schools.

We've an urgent need for a real public school system.

People gathering in the street as part of a religious festival is entirely up to them. You've a constitutional right to publicly practice your religion. It's a non issue.

KCAccidental

QuinDixie wrote: »

All refugees we accept should be Christians who are being persecuted by Muslims.
You can like it or not, Ireland is still a Christian country.

what about Christians being persecuted by Buddhists in Myanmar? Or Christians being persecuted by Israelis in Palestine?

KCAccidental

QuinDixie wrote: »

Any adult that switches between any 2 religions, they are the ones to never be trusted.

what, like Jesus and his apostles?

Not a NSA agent

QuinDixie wrote: »

But what did you mean by nice to be accepted in my own country statement.
What did that mean, What does it have to do with Muslims and Christians when you are neither.

Any adult that switches between any 2 religions, they are the ones to never be trusted.

We should only be saving Christians and now I cant be trusted. It isnt like we give children much of a choice.

Christianity in Africa isnt exactly the half assed job we got in Ireland. According to you we should send a gay person straight back to Uganda because it isnt Muslims persecuting him.

QuinDixie

SpaceTime wrote: »

Ireland is a post enlightenment, liberal democracy in most areas of life.

The issue I have is any religious group trying to run the state or operate their own legal systems. So far, the only groups to have attempted that have been Christian. Magdalene laundries etc being an example of a parallel religious judicial and prison system having been in operation.

We need solid separation of church and state though and a proper secular setup.

Lack of secular public schools is just going to cause ghettoisation and fragmentation as the country becomes more diverse.

It also provides space for extremist views to be merged into education.

That's not down to anything other than the Catholic church's stranglehold on education and the total lack of a public school system which will inevitably cause calls for more teligious schools.

The one problem with removing the RC Church from primary Schools, in most cases the schools are owned by the RC Church.
the rest of your post is pure tosh, the RC Church has done a lot of damage to this country but lets not forget the massive amount of good the RC Church has brought this country.

for someone who wants a liberal society, you are doing a good job of demonising the RC religion.

At least I am honest with my views on the Muslim faith.

QuinDixie

KCAccidental wrote: »

what, like Jesus and his apostles?

Do you not remember your religious education?

KCAccidental

QuinDixie wrote: »

The one problem with removing the RC Church from primary Schools, in most cases the schools are owned by the RC Church.
the rest of your post is pure tosh, the RC Church has done a lot of damage to this country but lets not forget the massive amount of good the RC Church has brought this country.

for someone who wants a liberal society, you are doing a good job of demonising the RC religion.

At least I am honest with my views on the Muslim faith.

What good have they done?

KCAccidental

QuinDixie wrote: »

Do you not remember your religious education?

The apostles were Jews who changed to Christianity in their adult years. Can't be trusting them eh?

SpaceTime

QuinDixie wrote: »

The one problem with removing the RC Church from primary Schools, in most cases the schools are owned by the RC Church.
the rest of your post is pure tosh, the RC Church has done a lot of damage to this country but lets not forget the massive amount of good the RC Church has brought this country.

for someone who wants a liberal society, you are doing a good job of demonising the RC religion.

At least I am honest with my views on the Muslim faith.

So I'm not allowed to have an opinion and my post is pure tosh?!

Also are you accusing me of being dishonest?!

Magdalene laundries never happened, did they not?

All I said in my post is we need to have a secular state which means no religion gets to run the place. The people do through normal democracy. No 3rd party bodies religious or otherwise should be merged into the state.

... and you're the one complaining about religious fundamentalism ?!

I don't want to live in a theocracy - Christian, Muslim or anything else!

Your choice of religion or your lack of a religion shouldn't be any issue in Ireland or any liberal democracy with secular values.

You've freedom to practice or not practice whatever you what or to believe or not believe in whatever you want.

Basically, your religious faith or lack there of shouldn't be anything to do with the state.

Frank Grimes

QuinDixie wrote: »

At least I am honest with my views on the Muslim faith.

You've said nothing about the religion itself (Islam) rather your posts just talk about not liking Muslims, which isn't very Christian.

It's great to know that bigotry, ignorance, and close mindedness are alive and well in the country.

KCAccidental

KCAccidental wrote: »

what, like Jesus and his apostles?

Not to mention large parts Africa, the Romans, etc. Good to know their bigoted views only apply to religions that aren't their own.

QuinDixie

Deleted User wrote: »

It's great to know that bigotry, ignorance, and close mindedness are alive and well in the country.

It sure is, all it takes is someone to post a slight on the Muslim faith and the response from posters is to attack viciously the Catholic faith.

One poster asked about the Irony of it all, you could not make it up.

Frank Grimes

QuinDixie wrote: »

It sure is, all it takes is someone to post a slight on the Muslim faith and the response from posters is to attack viciously the Catholic faith.

Again, you are not saying anything about the religion, you are just making sweeping generalisations about Muslims and generally speaking in an intolerant manner.

One poster asked about the Irony of it all, you could not make it up.

I was talking about the irony of the language you were using, obviously it went over your head.

You viciously attacked their religion. You should expect your own to be attacked too. If you're not willing to, then keep your own bigoted views to yourself. Problem solved. All happy.

SpaceTime

You are attacking the idea that people should be able to assemble in public and you've stated that only Christians should be allowed to enter the country.

You didn't attack Muslims you attacked fundamental Irish constitutional and general concepts of human rights and freedom of conscience.

It's not that long ago we'd a previous incarnation of the state removing rights from Catholics for being Catholic. It's not really a chapter of history we should be looking at repeating and applying to another group!

Northern Ireland is still recovering from the damage of that kind of thing...

Ireland's not a monoculture and being Irish isn't a relgious identity.

Sonics2k

QuinDixie wrote: »

It sure is, all it takes is someone to post a slight on the Muslim faith and the response from posters is to attack viciously the Catholic faith.

One poster asked about the Irony of it all, you could not make it up.

Nobody here attacked Catholics. Least of all not until you started spouting nonsense about blocking refugees from possibly coming here if not Christian.

I'm sure that's just what Jesus had in mind.

Enjoy Heroin Responsibly

Ralf and Florian wrote: »

Since when were Muslims a race?Theyre no more an ethnic group than Methodists or Hare Krishnas.

Its a perfectly valid point provided one has never made an assumption about a persons religious beliefs on the basis of what they look like or what part of the world they come from.

darkdubh

Debates on the issue of Islam in The West always seen to go in two extremes,the "send them packing,theyre all terrorists" view or "we should be equally respectfull of all cultures including Islam" opinion of many on the left(I am more or left leaning politicaly before anyone starts).G.K. Chesterton once said, “It is the test of a good religion whether you can joke about it.”We saw what happened with Charlie Hebdo,Theo Van Gobh and the Danish cartoons.There is a big problem at the core of Islamic society in that independent or progressive thinking is activly discouraged.It took hundreds of years for Western society to progress from witch burning and The Spanish Inquisition to what it is today.There has been little or no such progression or change for the good is much of the Islamic world and till there is there is going to increasing conflict as demographics change in Western Europe.

Enjoy Heroin Responsibly

darkdubh wrote: »

G.K. Chesterton once said, “It is the test of a good religion whether you can joke about it.

For how many years was the film "life of Brian" banned in Ireland again ?

SpaceTime

I agree fully that there's a problem with Islamic fundamentalism & it's certainly never something I would defend.

I just don't see how a group of Muslims on a street is suddenly being morphed into fundamentalism by certain posters though.

There's a discussion to be had about extremism but I just think we're risking demonising a complex community with quite a lot of internal denominations / sects most of which are very far from being extremists!

No religion or political group should be attempting to force views on anyone. That's quite simply a type of fascism and doesn't belong in any liberal democracy and the reactions of some aspects of of the Islamic world to criticism are completely insane.

However a group of religious people outside a cinema is absolutely not anything other than a group of relgious people outside a cinema.

Let's get things into a bit of perspective !!

There were reactions like this do the Irish community in the UK when the IRA was in full swing over there too.

I know Basques who have had the police phoned in Madrid bevause they were seen reading a newspaper in the Basque language.

Of any community Irish people should know what it's like having a bunch of terrorists claiming your good name !

darkdubh

Enjoy Heroin Responsibly wrote: »

For how many years was the film "life of Brian" banned in Ireland again ?

Eight or nine years or thereabouts.How long has The Satanic Verses been banned in Saudi Arabia?

darkdubh

Enjoy Heroin Responsibly wrote: »

For how many years was the film "life of Brian" banned in Ireland again ?

And while we're at it how long was Father Ted banned in Ireland for?Read back over my post again and note the word "progress".