The Confederate flag - STFU

redstaar

I think the flag is rebellish and cool its southern culture and they have a right to fly it. To ban it be wrong by a minority of people who use it as a racist tool.

Mardy Bum

redstaar wrote: »

I think the flag is rebellish and cool its southern culture and they have a right to fly it. To ban it be wrong by a minority of people who use it as a racist tool.

It's not banned.

Manic Moran

In the meantime, The Dukes of Hazzard has been pulled from its showing on TVLand (the retro station) because, well...

I think CMT is still keeping it.

Grab All Association

Manic Moran wrote: »

In the meantime, The Dukes of Hazzard has been pulled from its showing on TVLand (the retro station) because, well...

I think CMT is still keeping it.

I was 99.9% sure you were joking until I Googled it :O

Amerika

Now even NASCAR is jumping on the ridiculous bandwagon and is doing what they can to eliminate the flag from races. This weekend at Daytona they will offer a flag exchange for fans at the race.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/maurybrown/2015/06/29/nascar-the-death-of-the-confederate-flag-and-the-first-amendment/

My question is, when will we all be demanding these symbols of slavery be dismantled?

Grab All Association

Amerika wrote: »

Now even NASCAR is jumping on the ridiculous bandwagon and is doing what they can to eliminate the flag from races. This weekend at Daytona they will offer a flag exchange for fans at the race.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/maurybrown/2015/06/29/nascar-the-death-of-the-confederate-flag-and-the-first-amendment/

My question is, when will we all be demanding these symbols of slavery be dismantled?

Archaeological evidence found a number of years ago that proved that Egyptian labourers built the pyramids.

Graves of the pyramid builders were first discovered in the area in 1990 when a tourist on horseback stumbled over a wall that later proved to be a tomb. Egypt's archaeology chief Zahi Hawass said that discovery and the latest finds last week show that the workers were paid laborers, rather than the slaves of popular imagination.

http://news.discovery.com/history/ancient-egypt/pyramids-tombs-giza-egypt.htm
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/01/11/new-discovery-shows-slave_n_419326.html

Amerika

Chris___ wrote: »

Archaeological evidence found a number of years ago that proved that Egyptian labourers built the pyramids.



http://news.discovery.com/history/ancient-egypt/pyramids-tombs-giza-egypt.htm
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/01/11/new-discovery-shows-slave_n_419326.html

Inconclusive evidence as of now. I believe the accepted theory continues to be that the pyramids were built by corvees of native Egyptians and of slaves as well, conscripted into temporary service on the pyramids, probably during the flood season when their labor on the farm could be spared for other things.

Also, a recent CNN/ORC poll shows that 57% of Americans see the that confederate flag more as a symbol of Southern pride than as a symbol of racism.

Mardy Bum

Amerika wrote: »

Inconclusive evidence as of now. I believe the accepted theory continues to be that the pyramids were built by corvees of native Egyptians and of slaves as well, conscripted into temporary service on the pyramids, probably during the flood season when their labor on the farm could be spared for other things.

Also, a recent CNN/ORC poll shows that 57% of Americans see the that confederate flag more as a symbol of Southern pride than as a symbol of racism.

There is a good cartoon on the New Yorker at the minute depicting Southern Pride. How would you define SP? I would say that Southern Pride is so intertwined with racism and ignorance that it should be regarded as southern shame. (Discrimination due to colour and sexuality, penchant for evangelical rubbish, unaccepting of scientific evidence, widespread paranoia, NASCAR, staggering levels of illiteracy, despicable education services, bombington, Alabama, political incompetence (see current senators esp. Lindsey Graham and Ted Cruz), highly unequal society and last but not least the KKK which still operates)

Labarbapostiza

Amerika wrote: »

No, we crave change. The country has been going in the wrong direction for the last 6 years now. The shift left hasn't helped the average citizen and a move to slightly right of center is needed.

There hasn't been shift "left" in America. The richest Americans have in fact DOUBLED their wealth in the last 6 years. Quantitative Easing of five TRILLION dollars, was the greatest ever gift from the poor to the rich in world history. How much further right to you think America has to go?

America didn't get the "left", they got gay marriage.

It's a relatively new tactic in politics. Back socially progressive issues, like gay marriage....and then dip your hand in their pockets with economic retrogression. it's actually a political position that has me wanting to slice fat throats open.

Amerika

Mardy Bum wrote: »

There is a good cartoon on the New Yorker at the minute depicting Southern Pride. How would you define SP? I would say that Southern Pride is so intertwined with racism and ignorance that it should be regarded as southern shame. (Discrimination due to colour and sexuality, penchant for evangelical rubbish, unaccepting of scientific evidence, widespread paranoia, NASCAR, staggering levels of illiteracy, despicable education services, bombington, Alabama, political incompetence (see current senators esp. Lindsey Graham and Ted Cruz), highly unequal society and last but not least the KKK which still operates)

I would expect nothing less from the New Yorker. I believe the majority here would agree that Southern Pride of today could be represented by another flag the US once used in our early history... And today with nothing at all to do with slavery.

Labarbapostiza

Mardy Bum wrote: »

There is a good cartoon on the New Yorker at the minute depicting Southern Pride. How would you define SP? I would say that Southern Pride is so intertwined with racism and ignorance that it should be regarded as southern shame.

No... It's more something else. The south is different from the North in lots of ways. And not all of these ways are particularly bad things. There's a lot of racism in the North too.

Culchie pride might be a more appropriate term.

Amerika

Labarbapostiza wrote: »

There hasn't been shift "left" in America. The richest Americans have in fact DOUBLED their wealth in the last 6 years. Quantitative Easing of five TRILLION dollars, was the greatest ever gift from the poor to the rich in world history. How much further right to you think America has to go?

America didn't get the "left", they got gay marriage.

It's a relatively new tactic in politics. Back socially progressive issues, like gay marriage....and then dip your hand in their pockets with economic retrogression. it's actually a political position that has me wanting to slice fat throats open.

The Left here doesn’t really care about 99% of the things it claims to care about. They take on all sorts of social and political battles, not because they believe in them, but rather to agitate and disrupt things in order to take power. They utilize emotional venting because it allows them to exercise power over others. They are a pox on our society.

PopePalpatine

Of course, it's never like the right exercise power over others...

Mardy Bum

Amerika wrote: »

The Left here doesn’t really care about 99% of the things it claims to care about. They take on all sorts of social and political battles, not because they believe in them, but rather to agitate and disrupt things in order to take power. They utilize emotional venting because it allows them to exercise power over others. They are a pox on our society.

I take it you are not too pleased with recent Supreme Court rulings. Damn judges.

Labarbapostiza

Amerika wrote: »

The Left here doesn’t really care about 99% of the things it claims to care about. They take on all sorts of social and political battles, not because they believe in them, but rather to agitate and disrupt things in order to take power. They utilize emotional venting because it allows them to exercise power over others. They are a pox on our society.

Gay marriage is not compulsory. it's not going to change your life....unless you want it too.

Problems America has? Just recently more than 50% of the population of Texas, were in fear they were about to be invaded by the United States of America. Even Chuck Norris was worried.

The right used fear and wedge issues to take over the south. The Republican's Southern Strategy was to win by playing to the south's racists.

The South was once upon a time far more left than the North. The name Red Neck, comes from Kentucky miners who would wear a red bandana around their necks to signal to others they were union men.

Amerika

PopePalpatine wrote: »

Of course, it's never like the right exercise power over others...

The Right can compromise. The US Congress is working again and getting things done because Republicans control it and DO compromise with Democrats for the good of all citizens.

Amerika

Mardy Bum wrote: »

I take it you are not too pleased with recent Supreme Court rulings. Damn judges.

You are correct, but maybe not for the reasons you may think. The Judges seem to forget they are part of the Judicial branch, not the Legislative branch of government.

InTheTrees

Amerika wrote: »

The Right can compromise. The US Congress is working again and getting things done because Republicans control it and DO compromise with Democrats for the good of all citizens.

64% disapproval.

Historic lows. And meanwhile Obama's approval is surging.

http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/congress-job-approval

InTheTrees

Amerika wrote: »

The Judges seem to forget they are part of the Judicial branch, not the Legislative branch of government.

This is a constantly parroted republican talking point.

When judges dont make the decisions republicans want then they accuse the judges of "legislating from the bench".

Which is really Fox news Nonsense speak.

You'll never hear them explain in any more depth because it doesnt make any sense.

The judges job is to rule on whether a lower court made a correct or incorrect decision. How that is considered legislating god alone knows...

Brian?

Amerika wrote: »

You are correct, but maybe not for the reasons you may think. The Judges seem to forget they are part of the Judicial branch, not the Legislative branch of government.

This is plainly ridiculous. The Supreme Court either upholds or strikes down laws based on their constitutionality, simple as that. Have you specific examples of them "legislating from the bench"?

InTheTrees

Labarbapostiza wrote: »

Problems America has? Just recently more than 50% of the population of Texas, were in fear they were about to be invaded by the United States of America. Even Chuck Norris was worried.

Another problem is that 50% of the population of Texas probably couldnt identify Texas on a map.

I'm being absolutely serious too.

eire4

redstaar wrote: »

I think the flag is rebellish and cool its southern culture and they have a right to fly it. To ban it be wrong by a minority of people who use it as a racist tool.

Nobody has been calling for there to be a ban on it. What is been called for is to stop flying the flag on official government buildings to have the Mississippi state flag changed. Changes of that nature. In short the flag is a symbol of bigotry and it is not acceptable for any part of government to in a sense be endorsing bigotry by flying the confederate flag.

Labarbapostiza

eire4 wrote: »

Nobody has been calling for there to be a ban on it. What is been called for is to stop flying the flag on official government buildings to have the Mississippi state flag changed. Changes of that nature. In short the flag is a symbol of bigotry and it is not acceptable for any part of government to in a sense be endorsing bigotry by flying the confederate flag.

Yes. any state endorsement of the flag is very wrong, and any defenders of the flag do not have a leg to stand on. Because. The flag is not actually the confederate flag, and neither is it a confederate battle flag. it's actually the Dixiecrat flag. an explicitly racist political party. And this "historical" flag actually dates from 1948, and not the 1860s. (It takes a partial emblem from one of the Confederate battle flags. But neither the flag nor emblem were used in the south until 1948 - it's essentially a KKK flag. But. Due to a lot of BS, and fogging history, and the south's need for an actual emblem, the flag was adopted. The true history of the flag is explicitly racist, even more so now than in the recent past. The Russian separatists in Ukraine have adopted the flag, because they are fascists. The flag has to go. I believe the South needs an emblem, but not that one. )

Manic Moran

Brian? wrote: »

This is plainly ridiculous. The Supreme Court either upholds or strikes down laws based on their constitutionality, simple as that. Have you specific examples of them "legislating from the bench"?

No, he's right enough. Look at the number of 5-4 splits the court comes out with on "political" issues, with the same judges generally on each side, Was there ever any doubt which way Scalia, Roberts, Ginsberg or Breyer would rule on gay marriage, for example? It is accepted that there is a "conservative wing" and a "liberal wing" of the court, oddly, generally closely related to whichever president appointed them. It's why liberals are hoping that one of the judges retires in the next year, and conservatives are reverently hoping that they hold on until the next Republican president.

It's pretty much evident that in a lot of cases, the judges decide what they want the outcome to be, and then come up with some legal justification to support it. That's not ruling on the law, that's ruling on conscience. The court polarity has turned Scotus into a mockery of law.

Manic Moran

Labarbapostiza wrote: »

Yes. any state endorsement of the flag is very wrong, and any defenders of the flag do not have a leg to stand on. Because. The flag is not actually the confederate flag, and neither is it a confederate battle flag. it's actually the Dixiecrat flag. an explicitly racist political party. And this "historical" flag actually dates from 1948, and not the 1860s. (It takes a partial emblem from one of the Confederate battle flags. But neither the flag nor emblem were used in the south until 1948 - it's essentially a KKK flag. But. Due to a lot of BS, and fogging history, and the south's need for an actual emblem, the flag was adopted. The true history of the flag is explicitly racist, even more so now than in the recent past. The Russian separatists in Ukraine have adopted the flag, because they are fascists. The flag has to go. I believe the South needs an emblem, but not that one. )

http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/24/us/confederate-flag-myths-facts/

Not seeing it. CNN is saying that the Dixiecrats used the CBF impromptuly, and I've not been able to find a difference listed easily. Got a link?

Overheal

Amerika wrote: »

Inconclusive evidence as of now. I believe the accepted theory continues to be that the pyramids were built by corvees of native Egyptians and of slaves as well, conscripted into temporary service on the pyramids, probably during the flood season when their labor on the farm could be spared for other things.

Well, the accepted theory for almost 2000 years was that Judas betrayed Jesus. There is now evidence supporting the contrary.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Judas

Faced with new archeological evidence supporting that they were paid laborers it seems to be reasonable to assume they were not slaves. Either way nobody is driving down the road in a coal-stack pluming ford f-350 with a egyptian pyramid decal on their sticker lamenting a simpler time when history was ancienty and scores of slaves built our graves.

Also, a recent CNN/ORC poll shows that 57% of Americans see the that confederate flag more as a symbol of Southern pride than as a symbol of racism.

They can have this

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gadsden_flag

InTheTrees

Manic Moran wrote: »

It is accepted that there is a "conservative wing" and a "liberal wing" of the court, oddly, generally closely related to whichever president appointed them. It's why liberals are hoping that one of the judges retires in the next year, and conservatives are reverently hoping that they hold on until the next Republican president.

Yes, it is accepted. Its really not unusual or new though; a US presidents lasting legacy are his appointments to the Supreme Court.

Thats where his ideology is extended.

That is how its always been.

It is George Bush's legacy to leave a conservative court in place. We are dealing with his appointments now.

There is a nomination process in which the President's appointees have to have their positions confirmed by Congress. So its not just a rubber stamp appointment.

InTheTrees

Manic Moran wrote: »

It's pretty much evident that in a lot of cases, the judges decide what they want the outcome to be, and then come up with some legal justification to support it. That's not ruling on the law, that's ruling on conscience. The court polarity has turned Scotus into a mockery of law.

Really?

They just come up with "some legal justification" do they?

Yikes.

:eek:

Ed_Stephens

Labarbapostiza wrote: »

Yes. any state endorsement of the flag is very wrong, and any defenders of the flag do not have a leg to stand on. Because. The flag is not actually the confederate flag, and neither is it a confederate battle flag. it's actually the Dixiecrat flag. an explicitly racist political party. And this "historical" flag actually dates from 1948, and not the 1860s. (It takes a partial emblem from one of the Confederate battle flags. But neither the flag nor emblem were used in the south until 1948 - it's essentially a KKK flag. But. Due to a lot of BS, and fogging history, and the south's need for an actual emblem, the flag was adopted. The true history of the flag is explicitly racist, even more so now than in the recent past. The Russian separatists in Ukraine have adopted the flag, because they are fascists. The flag has to go. I believe the South needs an emblem, but not that one. )

I've asked this question 4 times and nobody has answered it, if the shamrock or other traditional Irish symbol was used by some hate group would you support its removal as an Irish symbol?

You cannot take the flag on its 20th century history alone.

Mardy Bum

Ed_Stephens wrote: »

I've asked this question 4 times and nobody has answered it, if the shamrock or other traditional Irish symbol was used by some hate group would you support its removal as an Irish symbol?

You cannot take the flag on its 20th century history alone.

If Lindsey Graham can I think that tells you enough. It has no place as an official flag.