Opinions on this?

LegacyUser

Reg poster, going anon.

Facts:
My brother is 29.
I am 24 (his younger sister)

My brother and his fiancé both live in another country. His fiancé is of a different nationality. They came to stay with us in the family home last week (with myself and both my parents) for 3/4 nights. They brought his fiancé's five year old girl with them. It was their first time to stay in the family home together. My brother stayed in the spare room, and his fiancé and her little girl stayed in his room.

The night before their flight, I suggested we go out for breakfast. My brother said 'we won't have time, we need to pack' and his fiancé said 'of course we can, I'm fully packed already'.

The morning of their flight came. We never went for breakfast. This is where it is all a bit bizarre.

They asked my mum if they could 'borrow' a larger suitcase because they were having difficulty fitting everything in their own. (1. This doesn't make sense as they said they were fully packed the night before and 2. Why would they need a bigger suitcase, they were here for 3 nights and they never went shopping?), anyway... my mum gave them a bigger suitcase and they left their old one behind.

They then went to the airport.

My mum then said to me 'I passed his room earlier and they had dvd's lined out over the bed, run upstairs and check if yours are all still there'. NOTE: Since my brother moved abroad 5 years ago, we store the family's collection of dvds in his room. I went upstairs and noticed a lot of my dvds were gone. Alarm bells started ringing in my head - this explains why they needed a bigger suitcase.

I texted my brother while he was in the air and I asked 'did you take my dvds?' and he wrote back 'crap yeah, pocahontas, aladdin, X, X and X, are they yours?' and I wrote back 'obviously they are mine. You hardly bought pocahontas yourself'. He then said 'it was a mistake. Stop your nonsense'. Nonsense? I was asking a simple question, why did you take my dvds?

Anyway, my mum was furious over this. Like me, she thought the whole thing was so sly. Asking us for a bigger suitcase to 'borrow' (you can't borrow a suitcase) and then loading it with our family's dvd collection, and then claiming it was 'a mistake'. (a mistake? did the dvds fall into your suitcase?).

Anyway, a few texts forth and back between himself, myself and my mum. I was furious with him lying so I asked him to explain how it could have been a mistake. I wanted him to admit that himself and his fiancé clearly took the Disney movie collection for his fiance's 5 year old little girl, but he wouldn't do it. He somehow managed to twist my simple question around and accuse my mum and myself of 'mistrusting his fiancé'. I asked him, 'why would your fiancé be going through our family's dvd collection anyway? If I went to my boyfriend's family home I would certainly not route through their family belongings'. This question infuriated him and a few minutes later his fiancé started texting myself and my mum to say 'how dare you both accuse me of going through your family belongings'.

These texts have been going back and forth for a week now. My brother is now hurting my mum by telling her that she may never see her son again as a result of this. It is crazy stuff. Most people would react 'listen I took your dvds, I am sorry, I will post them back to you today'. But instead, he is accusing us of 'mistrusting' him, making 'false accusations' against his fiancé etc. It is crazy stuff but unfortunately at the moment, it looks like the relationship is broken.

I would genuinely like to hear other people's thoughts on this as my mum is distraught over the whole thing. And his fiancé has sent her horrible, horrible messages.

They are expecting their first child together in two months time and they are threatening my parents telling them that they 'may never get to see their grandchildren because of this'.

Thanks for reading.

This is usually how these arguments begin - those ones where families lose contact with each other. Someone has to be the bigger person and stop it before it spirals out of control. Could you possibly ask him if he could send on money to cover for those DVDs? You might not see them again, mainly because the cost to send them back would probably be the same as getting new/secondhand ones.

magicmushroom

Stop texting as they can come across in a tone they're not intended to.

RING HIM - explain the situation, talk to him like an adult, tell him it doesn't matter about the DVD's (because it doesn't at this stage - salvaging the relationship is more important now), explain that no one was accusing the girlfriend of anything etc...

You have then been the bigger person and it's up to him to apologise and also to the fiancé to apologise to your Mother.

pookie82

This has escalated out of all control - threatening to keep your mother from her grandchild over a few dvds?

Were they all that he took? Unless he took a sizeable amount I can't see one needing a larger suitcase for a few dvds ... You're sure nothing else is missing?

If I were you I'd have probably get in touch and say "look, it's not like I watch them daily but they're my dvds and the least you should have done was ask for them before packing them to bring abroad for a long stretch of time. I'm sorry I lost the head but so did you. This is not worth a family rift for. Please bring them with you the next time you come home or replace them for me here, and ask in future if there's something of mine you want. You may find I'll give it willingly and all of this could have been avoided".

am i bovvered

This is a crazy situation, if your family is going to make this drama over a few children's DVD's then it was only a matter of time that you were going to fall out. Your 24 and your brother 29 time for the two of you to grow up ! Stop running to mommy, there is a new 5 year old in the family now.
He was wrong to take the DVD's without checking but the reaction is totally over the top.
My advice, apologise and learn to relax, worry about the big things in life.

LegacyUser

Deleted User wrote: »

Could you possibly ask him if he could send on money to cover for those DVDs? You might not see them again, mainly because the cost to send them back would probably be the same as getting new/secondhand ones.

Hi - thanks for your reply. It is not about the dvd's as such, it is the principle. I am posting here because what should have been 'you took my dvds', 'yes i am sorry, i will send them back' and that be the end of it, has now turned into 'you won't see your brother and our parents won't see their grandchild'. His reaction is not normal and we do not know how to deal with him. It's impossible to talk to him

magicmushroom wrote: »

tell him it doesn't matter about the DVD's (because it doesn't at this stage - salvaging the relationship is more important now), explain that no one was accusing the girlfriend of anything etc...

Thanks for your response but why would I do this? Of course we made an accusation that both himself and his girlfriend slyly took the dvds. That is exactly what they did?

pookie82 wrote: »

Were they all that he took? Unless he took a sizeable amount I can't see one needing a larger suitcase for a few dvds ... You're sure nothing else is missing?

This is precisely it. He took books belonging to my mum, DVD'S belonging to me, and CD's belonging to the family. My mum is furious but it afraid to text him as she has no proof of which ones himself and his fiancé took.

I think people aren't seeing the actual issue here. This is not over a few stolen dvd's. It is a case of not been able to trust my brother and his fiancé to stay in our house again. If you look at it from my parents perspective, they pulled out all the stops to make sure both my brother, his fiancé and her five year old child had a wonderful trip here in Dublin, only to find out that they filled their suitcase with a load of our belongings.

Teyla Emmagan

Why didn't your mother not just ask what they were doing with the DVDs when she went past? Instead she tells you to make sure they haven't taken anything of yours. Clearly none of your family trust each other to start. And such fuss over a bunch of DVDs. OK, they may be yours, and your brother helped himself to them without asking anyone, but you are hardly watching pochahontas on a regular basis. Maybe he thought they were his/no one would care. It's a really big deal over nothing at this stage though. Forget about the DVDs and make peace for the sake of your new niece or nephew.

kylith

I think you need to ask yourself if a few DVDs are worth more to you than your brother. I totally understand where you're coming from; he shouldn't have gone through your things, he should have asked if he could take them, and he shouldn't be persistently lying when he's already been caught out. He should have come clean and admitted that he thought you wouldn't miss them.

I think you should call him and have an actual chat about this, texts are too easy to misread context into. But you need to lay out your points: they obviously did go through your things because they took your things, you're not making false accusations because he did take your DVDs without asking. Just ask him for an apology and maybe token cash to replace them or a promise to bring them back next time he visits.

Don't lose your brother over this. How would you feel if he died and you hadn't spoken to him for years because he'd taken Pochohantas without asking?

OneOfThem

This is madness. Somehow in your head you've turned your brother grabbing some old children's dvds for his kid (how often do you watch pokohantas?) into some kind of machiavellian heist,some massive betrayal of trust. It's crazy.

Yeah he should have thought to ask, but trying to force him into admitting to some kind of crime (because of the principle) is nuts. And accusing him and his fiancé of plotting and conspiring to deprive you of what are virtually worthless discs of metal at this stage is bang out of order.

strandroad

In the second post OP explains that it's not just her DVDs, it's books, DVDs and CDs belonging to their parents as well. It's just the OP noticed what's missing straight away.

I understand you OP, your brother and his fiance went through the house and grabbed whatever they liked on the sly. It's not normal and I can see how your family would never like to host them again.

If they are not going to apologise though there is nothing you can do. I would let it drop and keep some contact, just never invite them again.

magicmushroom

op_here wrote: »

Thanks for your response but why would I do this? Of course we made an accusation that both himself and his girlfriend slyly took the dvds. That is exactly what they did?

I suggested you do this because someone needs to be the bigger person, unless you feel that falling out over some Disney DVD's is worth it.

op_here wrote: »

This is precisely it. He took books belonging to my mum, DVD'S belonging to me, and CD's belonging to the family. My mum is furious but it afraid to text him as she has no proof of which ones himself and his fiancé took.

I think people aren't seeing the actual issue here. This is not over a few stolen dvd's. It is a case of not been able to trust my brother and his fiancé to stay in our house again. If you look at it from my parents perspective, they pulled out all the stops to make sure both my brother, his fiancé and her five year old child had a wonderful trip here in Dublin, only to find out that they filled their suitcase with a load of our belongings.

Well that's the issue we saw as that's what you told us - you didn't tell us that your Mothers books and CD's were taken as well. We can only work with the information we're given!

So if this is the case then the issue is with your brother and his fiancé, not you, so just leave it. It's up to them to see the error of their ways and apologise.
If you don't feel this will happen and you will now lose contact/miss out on the new baby etc then the only way around it is to do what I first suggested and call him, say it was a misunderstanding etc - OK it might not have been but you might need to do this to save the relationship.

retro:electro

Christ op, you're 23 not 5! Why on earth would you care if he took those kids DVDs? What on earth do you still want them for? If it was me I would have offered them to the child in the first place. I can't believe you're actually mad at your brother for taking some children's DVDs, it's actually baffling.

PandaPoo

anna080 wrote: »

Christ op, you're 23 not 5! Why on earth would you care if he took those kids DVDs? What on earth do you still want them for? If it was me I would have offered them to the child in the first place. I can't believe you're actually mad at your brother for taking some children's DVDs, it's actually baffling.

I agree, I didn't know whether or not to laugh when I read it first.

<Mod Snip: Read our charter, insults of any nature will result in cards in this forum or a ban> Get over it. The 'principal' isn't worth falling out with family.

R.D. aka MR.D

I didn't grow up in the most normal of households but I certainly wouldn't land into my brother's place and grab whatever I wanted. When I go to visit my parents, I'll even ask before helping myself to a bit of ham in the fridge because you know, I didn't buy it and maybe my mammy would want it for something.

I can't believe how many people think it's totally fine that the OP's brother just took a bunch of stuff without asking. But maybe I'm in the minority!

Listen OP, I totally understand your frustration. Has your brother always been like this? What is your mother's opinion? Is she willing to let this go in order to make peace?

Tilly

PandaPoo wrote: »

I agree, I didn't know whether or not to laugh when I read it first.

<mod snipped>. Get over it. The 'principal' isn't worth falling out with family.

If my brother took my Lion King dvd it would be more than a text he'd be getting off me. Doesnt matter what he took (which wasnt just dvds). It's the fact he took items that did not belong to him.

LegacyUser

anna080 wrote: »

Christ op, you're 23 not 5! Why on earth would you care if he took those kids DVDs? What on earth do you still want them for? If it was me I would have offered them to the child in the first place. I can't believe you're actually mad at your brother for taking some children's DVDs, it's actually baffling.

Sorry but just because some people view animated films as being only for kids doesn't mean they are. I've a huge collection of animated films and comic books and other items I'm sure many here with view as 'for kids' and I wouldn't let my nephews or nieces or their parents just walk off with them. My brother has asked nicely to borrow films from me and it's not an issue but the key difference here is he always asked. It shouldn't matter what type of dvd's they were or even that they were DVD's. They took something that didn't belong to them and then over reacted when asked why. Yes it's escalated into a big mess now but the OP shouldn't be given out to because she wants her belongs returned or the very least to be asked before taking them.

The brother assumed like many on here it appears that he could just take the animated films cus they are 'for kids' and he has a kid now but when confronted over taking them rather then just admitting and saying sorry and offering to either pay for them or return them he's dragged it into a big mess.

Honestly don't know what you can do at this stage OP, it's hard to try and resolve something like this over the phone. Most likely your parents will apologise on all your behalves so as not be cut out of his life. Sucks but you might just have to suck it up and put up with it.

LegacyUser

I'm with the OP on this what they did was very sneaky. I mean why couldn't they ask or say is it ok if we borrow these dvds.
I borrow books, dvds etc from family but I'd always ask in advance can I borrow it, I'd never just go over to my sisters/parents or inlaws house and help myself. Thats really bad form. It might seem a trivial issue falling out over taking dvds that weren't his but if he can't be honest and up front about borrowing stuff then what else is he likely to take the next time he visits.

PandaPoo

Tilly wrote: »

If my brother took my Lion King dvd it would be more than a text he'd be getting off me. Doesnt matter what he took (which wasnt just dvds). It's the fact he took items that did not belong to him.

I have a very different relationship with my siblings, we're definitely a lot more lax and forgiving. It would take a lot for us to fall out. We definitely wouldn't fall out over the lion king or pocahontas

allym

Tilly wrote: »

If my brother took my Lion King dvd it would be more than a text he'd be getting off me. Doesnt matter what he took (which wasnt just dvds). It's the fact he took items that did not belong to him.

This. It's really not about what he took. The fact that he thinks that's ok and has turned it into a huge deal instead of saying "yeah I took them, I didn't think it'd be a big deal. Sorry, I'll give them back" is just bizzare.

Has there been issues before with your brother? Seems an extreme reaction to threaten to never see you again if everything was fine up to this point.

DeltaWhite

I'm with you OP.

I'm sure the people who disagree here would be only fuming if they had their belongings stolen from them! Doesn't matter what the belongings are, or who took them, I think you are well within your right to be angry.

However, all this texting has to stop. You need to phone him and just calmly talk to him. He's being very cruel with his threats. My brothers pull crap like this with me all the time, and I don't stand for it. Couldn't give a monkeys if they are family, they do not take things from me without asking. Because that is known as stealing!

B0jangles

I'd be furious as well OP, I mean this wasn't casually picking up one of two things he might have thought no-one wanted, this is simply helping himself to other peoples belongings and getting crazy defensive when called out on such crappy behaviour. If this had happened in a friend's house, we'd call it what it is; theft, but somehow because it's family it's somehow acceptable behaviour according to some people.

He's behaving like an entitled ass.

magicmushroom

I think if the OP hadn't named the DVD's then some reactions might be different.

To be fair to her, it doesn't matter what film was on the DVD, the fact is that her brothers fiancé went through her belongings, also her Mothers belongings, then together with the brother they took what they wanted without asking.

This was after the parents had opened their home to the fiancé and her child (who is not the Brothers) and in return had their personal belongings taken and now the fiancé is sending the Mother horrible text messages.

It was done very sneakily, it was rude and the OP is right to be annoyed. I most definitely would be.

Augme

Some people are happy to be treated like dirt just to avoid falling out or just to keep a "family" together. I wouldn't be though. At the end of the day your brother has behaved appallingly and doesn't even seem to realise this. Do you honestly want a person like this to be an important part of your life? If a friend behaved like this you'd have no problem cutting them lose and I'd be the same with a family member. Blood ties shouldn't give someone the right to act like a piece of **** whenever they feel like it.

Decide what you want to do but don't feel bad for taking this issue ver seriously. I think people going on about the DVDs seem to have missed the point. The issue isn't about the DVDs, it's about the brother's behaviour.

meeeeh

I can understand why you would be annoyed but it is a huge overreaction. And to top it up you accused his fiancee stealing from you? Why did you have to bring her into it? And why did your mother ask you straight away to check the room her and the child were staying in? I seriously doubt we are getting the whole story here.

Emme

If the OP's brother wanted the DVDs he could have asked for them. Instead his fiancee who was staying in the room where the DVDs were stored must have asked for them and they took them on the quiet. The way the DVDs were taken is underhand and I can understand how the OP and her mother are upset. Perhaps her brother didn't think and acted on the spur of the moment. If I were the OP I would call her brother and ask him to return anything he took on his next visit.

power pants

How come the mother did not question her son when she saw all the dvds on the bed and after providing a bigger suitcase earlier when she thought that was odd?

Also why mention to the daughter only after they had left at the airport about her concern for the dvds and not prior?

Not condoning the brother's actions as the whole story sounds a little odd.

Has the brother stolen before?
what kind of relationship does the brother have with yourself and your mother?

Flippyfloppy

I'm not going to quote your whole op but I think what he did was quite innocent. His first response was 'crap yeah were there yours?' And then 'it was a mistake, stop your nonsense' (have you engaged in any so-called nonsense in the past?)

My take on it is that you and your mother then blew it all out of proportion, and in some ways I can understand your brother and fiances anger at this mistreatment over some DVDs.

I would say your brother saw them as 'family DVDs' and was just excited to take them , a piece of home and show them to his new step daughter. He may have had every intention to give them back at your next visit.

freshpopcorn

It's hard to offer you advice to be honest op because you don't give the full story in your first post and it all seems a bit messy including you, your mother and your brother/fiancée.
Even all the texting it just seems a disaster amongst ye. The only way a problem like this can be solved is by talking.

It seems odd that the fiance was saying bad things to your mother. Did you see the message thread? I would wonder whether your mum would have initiated it.

Nabber

The large suitcase he borrowed is worth more than the DVDs.
ell him to return the DVDs with the suitcase.
This is all over kids DVDs.
In this case I don't think it's a principle of him stealing. But I genuinely believe op you are distraught at not having these dvds.

Your brother shouldn't have taken them and you shouldn't care if he did....

retro:electro

What makes the DVDs yours anyway? Did you buy them yourself? I'd have the same collections but they'd belong to all my siblings too and not just me. Can't say I would care one bit if one of them took them for their children, makes perfect sense. Were the books and CDs also for children?

He doesn't sound like a thief op, the way he left them all scattered across the bed shows that he wasnt exactly sneaky about it. It's such a silly thing to fall about and a shame that you are so angry over something so trivial. I wouldn't count on them staying at your mothers house ever again after the accusations that were thrown at them, that's for sure.

LegacyUser

As the youngest sibling in my family I can completely understand where you are coming from. Sometimes we see our possessions and collections (books, dvds, etc) as extensions of ourselves and in a family context, as a way to assert our individuality. I think it's worst for the youngest because so many of our toys etc growing up are hand-me-downs. Your brother was wrong to take the stuff from my point of view, but from his point of view, it probably still seems fine. Ye attach different weight to behaviours and possessions, what bothers you probably doesn't bother him and he's insensitive to your preferences.

I think you handled it badly. You should relaxed and before sending the text asked yourself if it really mattered, and if it mattered, how to proceed. Course, easy for me to say, in the same position I'd have acted the same as you, which was childish. You're 24 but straight away you reacted like a child. This isn't unusual in families, we all revert to the dynamics we learned as kids. He took your stuff, you threw a tantrum, he talked down to you and you threw another tantrum.

Unfortunately, your brother handled it far, far worse. He was pretty high handed with his initial response and then made the mistake of dragging his partner into it, including letting her text your mum. Only a fool would allow that happen. He escalated things to a silly level by doing so and now it's hard to see what should happen next. I really think ye should step away from the phones and let a neutral person in the family iron things out. Get your dad to lay down the law to both of ye, or another sibling.

meeeeh

I actually think it is something completely different. Couple of hours after they left OP and mother were already checking if something was taken from the room fiancee and the child were staying in. It's a perfect way to create an impression they didn't trust her and thought she was a thief. Going by the opening post she was then accused of rummaging through their possessions without them actually having any proof she and not the brother took stuff. My rule is let family members deal with disputes without involving partners (if it can be avoided) because it will only cause hassle and create more misunderstandings. In this case it blew out of proportion and bebecame about not accepting someone into the family.

I might be making some assumptions but I am pretty sure it is close to the gist of the problem. And good luck resolving that.

TheBeardedLady

Is this all totally out of the blue? It sounds like this was a long time coming.

LeoBloom15

I would certainly be annoyed. Though it's quite clear that it has escalated into a serious situation and there may have been a relatively innocent explanation for your brother's behaviour in the beginning. Relationships abroad have their own dynamic. Your brother lives in his fiancé's world (I'm assuming that he lives in her home country). On a trip home like that he was probably very keen to impress her and also her kid. It's a small window to show her his roots and the 'home' version of himself. That can be pretty stressful. Maybe the fiancé/kid had her eye on the DVDs/CDs and he wanted to please her or impress her and said 'no problem, help yourself'. Of course he should have asked but perhaps he was, for want of a better phrase, acting cool. The fact he tried to play it down and then snapped a bit would suggest to me that he's embarrassed. He still seems to be trying to impress his fiancé by playing hardball with the family.

I agree with the idea of a phone call. It's too easy to text nasty things nowadays. You don't have to be a doormat or sacrifice your integrity. Just say that you're upset and disappointed by how things have unfolded but that it would be a shame to fall out over this. His reaction to the phone call will tell you a lot I think.

Faith

I honestly can't believe some people think that how the brother acted is okay!

The facts as we have them are:

- A person knowingly took items that didn't belong to them without asking
- When asked about it, the person first tried to brush it off, and then totally overreacted by threatening to cut ties with his family.

If we remove the family element, how would you feel if a stranger came into your home, stole your possessions, got found out and first said "Oops" before descending into accusing you of being the one at fault?

I don't think it matters that it's family. Someone stole items, then refused to admit responsibility when confronted. That person is a dick, regardless of relationship to the people he stole from.

Furthermore, what business does the fiancee have getting involved? She needs to stay out of this.

There are two approaches as I see it:

1. If you want to repair the relationship, you should email your brother (he sounds too emotionally volatile to speak to on the phone) and say something like "Hi Dave, I wanted to try and sort out what's going on. We were all pretty cross that you'd taken items from home without asking us. We would of course have given you whatever we could spare if you had just asked. When we spoke to you about it, all we wanted was an acknowledgement and an apology. That's still all we want, and we'd like to put this behind us and mend our family. We apologise if we somehow offended you and Mary, but let's all just apologise, acknowledge our mistakes and move on".

2. Accept that your brother is an ass and forget about having a relationship with him again. If this is how he reacts to being caught stealing, why would you even want him around? He sounds like a nightmare to me if he can't even take responsibility for his mistakes.

Flippyfloppy

The OP said herself these were 'family DVDs' Who's keeping tabs of who owns which ones exactly. If they were so important why weren't they kept in the living room with the TV and the DVD player? Probably because they don't even have a DVD player anymore nobody does!

So they keep the family DVDs in the spare room....ops brother sees them/ child's been looking at them all week. The brother didn't deny having them, he listed off what he took. His mistake was not knowing they belong specifically to OP and not the family as a whole.

Honestly, I'm not suprised they don't want the grandkids to see you guys op! You jumped fair quick to accusing your house guest/new family member/ love of your brothers life/mother of your new niece or nephew of snooping through your things! There's no coming back from that imo

orthsquel

Your mum went to your defence and her own too, since some books of hers are gone too. But your brother's financé has felt insulted by the accusations (even if just words in the heat of the moment) and your brother has to jump to her defence and back her up on this.

They should have just asked you all if they could have the dvds, books and cds, and given you the opportunity to say yes or no, or even think about it. They didn't, most likely fearing they would be told no, or assumed that there wouldn't have been a problem about it, given it was just there.

Who is right or wrong, and how others on here feel about it - that it is trivial vs a big deal - is really neither here nor there..... irrespective of who started it, how it happened, this is already way out of control that because one party feels insulted enough and on the defence enough, there is a risk of the grandparents not seeing the grandchildren in the future ... someone needs to put a stop to it all and be the bigger person and apologise.

It is more likely that your brother and his fiancé are not going to apologise. A fallout with them from insults and accusations has greater implications in them being forced to follow through (with stubborn pride) with you not seeing your niece/nephew and your parent's grandchild.... all you and your mother risk in apologising and being the bigger person is well, not much more than pride and principle. I think for your mother and yourself to apologise and be the bigger person makes it a lot, lot, lot easier for your brother and his fiancé to make a climbdown and reciprocate the apology and to accept the olive branch and make amends.

If it continues on, and nobody budges, then it means both sides will cling to heated words and threats and time will pass and nobody will even try to make amends.

In the grand scheme of things.... dvds, cds and books, can all be replaced. Anyone who clings to a principle in sacrifice of something better and bigger than that, is foolish. It is not a matter of who is right, or the point of a principle, but that the risk is a child could end up not knowing their grandparents, a sibling loses out on seeing and knowing their niece/nephew and not because your brother and fiancé won't apologise, or admit fault, but because there will be a prolonged stalemate neither side will want to deal with after a time, and won't want to approach it or know what to do with it, when family type events come around.

As for trust in having them stay over.... a grandchild, a niece/nephew is more important than holding an incident against them that it breaks the trust completely and that you will have to offer trust in inviting them, having them stay and letting them know they are welcome

Bananaleaf

R.D. aka MR.D wrote: »

I didn't grow up in the most normal of households but I certainly wouldn't land into my brother's place and grab whatever I wanted. When I go to visit my parents, I'll even ask before helping myself to a bit of ham in the fridge because you know, I didn't buy it and maybe my mammy would want it for something.

I can't believe how many people think it's totally fine that the OP's brother just took a bunch of stuff without asking. But maybe I'm in the minority!

Listen OP, I totally understand your frustration. Has your brother always been like this? What is your mother's opinion? Is she willing to let this go in order to make peace?

I agree with this.

It's not the dvds it's more the principle.

To the posters saying that the OP should just let it go for the sake of the family - at what point then is the OP justified in saying something? Do the family just turn a blind eye, say nothing and allow it to happen a second or third time?

I have a brother just like the OPs brother. Selfish and a bully. OP I think you were right to confront your brother about taking the DVDs. If it were me this is how I would handle it (thinking of my own brother here) I would cut contact for a day or two and get my own thoughts together and calm myself down. I would then call him and would explain exactly my standpoint.

"I wouldn't have minded you taking the DVDs but you should have asked. I don't want to lose contact with you but I can't let this go by without saying something - if I don't confront you about this I will be harbouring it inside and that's not good for ME or for us" I would also say something to him along the lines of "I understand that I may have overreacted, but can you at least understand why I did? Can you understand why a person might be angry to come home to find their dvds gone"

Maybe try engage him in a discussion of what happened and try to dissect and discuss each side's feelings or viewpoints on what has happened. I appreciatet that this tactic only works on certain people. Initially it didn't work with my brother and we went 4years without speaking.

You do have to pick your battles when it comes to family - but this is not something I'd be letting go. Relationship with your brother is important, but so is your relationship with yourself. you need to value and respect yourself and if you didnt bring this up with your brother you would have been letting him walk all over you.

One more point to add - a previous poster said that because your mother told you about the dvds instead of confronting your brother that this means nobody trusts anybody in your house. It actually reminds me a lot of my brothers relationship with our parents. I feel bad for your mum because she obviously didn't confront your brother because she's afraid to. I bet he goes ape if anyone confronts him about anything.

beks101

This is all a bit mad.

The facts as I see them:

- Your brother stole family possessions. Not cool, very selfish, inconsiderate and disrespectful. However, boundaries within families can often be a lot more blurred and perhaps it was an ignorant "sure they won't even miss a bunch of kids' DVDs/old books" on his part. The disrespect is still there for sure, but it's not quite the same as walking into a DVD store and flaking a shelf's worth of merchandise into his backpack.

- You dealt with it the wrong way. Your texts probably read as accusatory, confrontational and abrasive. No "did you take my purple top?" conversation I've ever had with my sister has gone down well or been resolved over text. It always escalates into a full-blown argument as both sides jump to the defence and fail to see the other's point of view as the tone is misinterpreted and we both get more and more aggro. As everyone else has advised - do these things face-to-face where possible - over Skype would've been the best. Second best by phone. "Here, I've noticed you've skived off to the other side of the world with all of our DVDs and half of mum's library - what the hell? You wouldn't think of asking, no? We'll be needing those back you know."

- Your brother's fiancee sounds like a nasty piece of work tbh. I'd be mortified if my OH spoke to my mother like that. In fact it would be a dumpable offence. Who the hell goes off on one like that with their future in-laws? Regardless of how pissed my OH was at his family, I'd never dream of jumping in with a string of angry texts like that. I'd try to be the pacifier regardless of the circumstances. How is her relationship with your parents in a general sense? If it were me, I'd be making it crystal clear to my brother that whatever about his behaviour, his missus has no right to go off on one at my mam, and you're disgusted that he's sitting back and letting it happen.

- The emotional blackmail. This is just not acceptable, and can't be used as a tool by your brother every time there's a family issue. He needs to STOP bringing an innocent child into his arguments. Does he want to deprive his kid of any relationship with his paternal family because of his own petty grievances?

Flippyfloppy

beks101 wrote: »

This is all a bit mad.


- Your brother's fiancee sounds like a nasty piece of work tbh. I'd be mortified if my OH spoke to my mother like that. In fact it would be a dumpable offence. Who the hell goes off on one like that with their future in-laws? Regardless of how pissed my OH was at his family, I'd never dream of jumping in with a string of angry texts like that. I'd try to be the pacifier regardless of the circumstances. How is her relationship with your parents in a general sense? If it were me, I'd be making it crystal clear to my brother that whatever about his behaviour, his missus has no right to go off on one at my mam, and you're disgusted that he's sitting back and letting it happen.

To answer the bit in Bold -the op and her mother. Op began involving ops fiancé by asking why did she go through family stuff. Even though she's now family. Was she really expected to sit back & look pretty following such a crazy accusation?

beks101 wrote: »

- The emotional blackmail. This is just not acceptable, and can't be used as a tool by your brother every time there's a family issue. He needs to STOP bringing an innocent child into his arguments. Does he want to deprive his kid of any relationship with his paternal family because of his own petty grievances?

I believe op brought a child into it first, by wanting her brother to answer the ''simple question'' did they take the DVDs for her new stepniece. Why did you press on this op? Who did you think they were for? Would it of been ok if they were for your new 'blood' relative niece or nephew? Your brother refused to answer this question therefore refusing to involve his new stepdaughter. Imo you should of been falling over yourself as a new aunt to give gifts such as these to your new extended family.

LegacyUser

I really can't believe that you reacted how you did. The DVDs were in HIS room, if they were yours or prized family possessions, they wouldn't be his room. They'd be in your own room, or in the living room.

Chances are that he thought they were his, as they were in his room, or that he thought they were dumped there. This is borne out by his reply that it was a mistake. I honestly think you've put 2 and 2 together and made 500, and you and your mother are feeding each other's irrational responses.

I really can't say I blame your brother for rightly telling you and your mother off with your accusations of stealing. I just can't believe that you'd say such a thing, I'd be shocked beyond belief if I was your brother.

The only fault that I can see with your brother is that he continued the discussion re your accusations over text, rather than a phone call. I really think you need to take about 50 steps back and apologise profusely.

Mozzeltoff

Flippyfloppy wrote: »

I believe op brought a child into it first, by wanting her brother to answer the ''simple question'' did they take the DVDs for her new stepniece. Why did you press on this op? Who did you think they were for? Would it of been ok if they were for your new 'blood' relative niece or nephew? Your brother refused to answer this question therefore refusing to involve his new stepdaughter. Imo you should of been falling over yourself as a new aunt to give gifts such as these to your new extended family.

Yeah, she asked a question on whether he took the dvds for the child. Obviously he did BUT that doesn't give him the right to come home and cart the lot with him. Anyway he's the one now using emotional blackmail. He's worse for using the child and keeping her involved.

Look. He shouldn't have taken the dvds, books or cds for himself, the fiancee or the child even if she was "blood". If he had any manners he should have had some cop on and asked if it was all right to take them if he wanted them.

And that bit at the end there about buying the child presents, that's got nothing to do with the situation whatsoever. You don't know whether the OP spoiled the child rotten or not. If she wanted to give the child those DVDs then that's up to her and nobody else.

OP, can I ask if your mother saw them with all the dvds on the bed, why didn't she ask what the were doing? I know if I saw my brother and his girlfriend trying to take stuff out of my house I wouldn't be long asking them what they were playing at.

maggiepip

I think it sounds like he was just being thoughtless, went through a load of "old" family cds, books and just took them with his own family in mind. Selfish behaviour but hardly a fraudster.

Yourself and your mothers behaviour is hardly straightforward, why didn't either of you ask him what stuff exactly he was taking? your mother put out the alert and was aware he was packing cds before he left. Now after he's gone he's being accused of theft and devious, sly behaviour, which is extremely hurtful if he was merely being a bit thoughtless.

I think yourself and your mother created a huge melodrama over this and have seriously hurt your brother. It was handled really badly.

maggiepip

mhge wrote: »

In the second post OP explains that it's not just her DVDs, it's books, DVDs and CDs belonging to their parents as well. It's just the OP noticed what's missing straight away.

I understand you OP, your brother and his fiance went through the house and grabbed whatever they liked on the sly. It's not normal and I can see how your family would never like to host them again.

If they are not going to apologise though there is nothing you can do. I would let it drop and keep some contact, just never invite them again.

Thank God Im not part of your family.

strandroad

maggiepip wrote: »

Thank God Im not part of your family.

Eh no need to get personal.
I'm actually quite happy to be part of a family where basic respect is paid to everyone.
If one of my sisters decided to quietly help herself to our games/books/clothes, old or new, before taking off it would be so out of character as to make me think she might need help. And if she was nasty about it afterwards I certainly wouldn't like to host her again.

I don't think it would be worth burning all the bridges between us though and I don't recommend the OP to do that either. But I wouldn't just accept such behaviour lying down - this is how family bullies are groomed.
Do you think it would be fine for the OP & the parents to go visit her brother and grab some items on their way back? This is not how families should work.

Neyite

You might not like my point of view OP, but here it is:

I think Kylith has nailed it. They are DVD's. Cartoons. Not the heirloom family silver. In the grand scheme of things, and where it gets to the point where relationships get damaged, and grandparents get cut off from grandchildren, it's really not worth it. It sounds like you've mentioned 5 DVD's. Then you say it was the family collection. Can I ask exactly how many he took?

He was wrong to take them. He was wrong to get defensive, and he is wrong to threaten to cut off the new grandchild.

You/your mother were wrong to accuse his fiancee. He is the one who knew the owners of the DVD's, he is the one who decided to take them -irrespective of who would be watching them. He's the one who knew the potential outcome of his actions. For all you know he might have told his fiancee that they belonged to him.

It's a terrible end to the first meeting of your brothers wife and daughter. She didn't 'go through' the family belongings. They were on a shelf in the room they were sleeping in. A 5 year old goes "look mommy, Pocohontas!!" and your brother decided to take them - he was in the wrong. The first meeting that this woman has of her husbands family, she and her daughter are accused of theft. I'm sorry, but I'd be furious too.

I have a light-fingered sibling too. Not too bad now we are older, but when younger it was awful, you'd nearly need to check her case and frisk her before she flew home. Even to this day, I'd keep anything irreplaceable well out of her way when she visits. There was one piece of jewellery she admired on me, and its of huge sentimental value to me. I would probably have a massive falling out with her if she took it, but not for DVD's, clothes or books.

PandaPoo

mhge wrote: »

This is not how families should work.

That's not for you to say. Maybe your family wouldn't work like that, but I know that my family does and nobody feels disrespected or bullied. If something was taken that one of us needed we'd say we needed it back and they can have it when we're done. No issues, no fighting, no bitchiness.
If one of us went crying to mammy because of a Disney dvd I think she'd fall over from laughing. If something serious happens between two of us she says sort it between yourselves. Nobody takes sides and the issue is sorted out quickly.

You can't fall out with family over petty stuff, it's silly and an overreaction. People comparing it to a stranger stealing their stuff is really confusing me. I'd give my siblings a kidney, they could steal a kidney from me and I wouldn't care. They are welcome to anything I have, and that doesn't mean there's no respect.

LegacyUser

Overreaction. wrote: »

I really can't believe that you reacted how you did. The DVDs were in HIS room, if they were yours or prized family possessions, they wouldn't be his room. They'd be in your own room, or in the living room.

Chances are that he thought they were his, as they were in his room, or that he thought they were dumped there.

Being in 'his room' doesn't really mean much when you've moved out of home. I know some families keep their kids rooms like shrines even after they've been living away decades but my mother had stuff stored in my room a week after I moved out. Didn't bother me as I knew I'd never live at home again full time. When I go home for visits I find all sorts of stuff stored in 'my room' Lots of my stuff but also both parents and my siblings various bits and pieces. Every now and then my mum says we should have clear out as a lot of it is stuff I'll never use again and same goes for sibling stuff but just because we've talked about getting rid of some of it doesn't mean I feel entitled to help myself to anything in the room without checking . I would always ask first.

Someone also said why were the dvds not kept beside a tv and them being in the bedroom meant no one cared about them. Again that wasn't for the brother to decide. My parents have the tv mounted to the wall and no were around it to store more then 2 or 3 dvds at a time and we have a huge collection so they are kept in a spare room.

Lux23

I am sorry, but this is a really silly argument - why do you need a copy of Aladdin at 24 years of age? Let your brother have them for his step child.

maggiepip

mhge wrote: »

Eh no need to get personal.
I'm actually quite happy to be part of a family where basic respect is paid to everyone.
If one of my sisters decided to quietly help herself to our games/books/clothes, old or new, before taking off it would be so out of character as to make me think she might need help. And if she was nasty about it afterwards I certainly wouldn't like to host her again.

I don't think it would be worth burning all the bridges between us though and I don't recommend the OP to do that either. But I wouldn't just accept such behaviour lying down - this is how family bullies are groomed.
Do you think it would be fine for the OP & the parents to go visit her brother and grab some items on their way back? This is not how families should work.

Ok apologies, I came across pretty rude there. But these things aren't ever black and white, I think the brother was just seriously thoughtless, grabbed a few things he didnt think anyone would want or miss and wasn't aware of who owned what. Advising the OP not to have them in the house again is OTT.

And the op demanding the brother admit guilt in the context that he deliberately, deviously and consciously stole is very unfair, when that probably wasn't his intention.