Roche and Deignan haven't made the cut for the TDF

Fender76

http://www.thebikecomesfirst.com/no-tour-de-france-for-nicolas-roche-or-philip-deignan/

Can't find anything to confirm if this is true.. but apparently Team Sky TDF team details were leaked earlier today.

mcgratheoin

does that mean they'll ride the nationals?

mtbireland

Deignan confirmed for the champs today.

ThisRegard

There's radio stations running with it as being possibly the case anyway, but they're saying there's confusion around it.

cats pyjamas

Nico for the Vuelta?

Fender76

They must be well pissed off.... especially Deignan...

In better news, Bennett has been picked for Bora Argon....

ednwireland

not suprised roche wasnt picked as he was disappearing on the last climbs on the dauphine.

though deignan had an outside shot at a place.

Junior

Matt Slater from the BBC tweeted shortly afterwards that the leaked team details weren't correct so I'd keep powder dry.. also more surprisingly the team didn't have Kiri-bot

StevieGriff

Would be very surprised that Froome wouldn't want Deignan riding for him. He worked like an absolute animal for him during the Dauphine.

dewindygap

Posting from France. Am devestated for Deignan if this is the case. Saw no coverage of the Dauphine over here but in any race I've watched Deignan, be it in Sky colours or not he has played a blinder. Think this will be his last chance for Le Tour.

Fender76 wrote: »

http://www.thebikecomesfirst.com/no-tour-de-france-for-nicolas-roche-or-philip-deignan/

Can't find anything to confirm if this is true.. but apparently Team Sky TDF team details were leaked earlier today.

Eamonnator

http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/philip-deignan-to-fight-for-gold-at-national-road-champs/

It appears from this article, that Philip Deignan is riding the National Road Championships. If this is correct, I doubt, that he will be in the team for TdF

dastardly00

I'm calling bulls**t.

Why is Nico training with Froome and Porte if he's not going to the Tour.

Froome tweeted this photo today:

Snowchaser

Nico Roche's form was been very poor this year. Since he joined Sky his form has gone down hill. He is really struggling as soon as the road has gone up hill.

This is a rider who used to climb very well and finished 5th in a very tough Vuelta.

Where has his form gone?

godtabh

Snowchaser wrote: »

Nico Roche's form was been very poor this year. Since he joined Sky his form has gone down hill. He is really struggling as soon as the road has gone up hill.

This is a rider who used to climb very well and finished 5th in a very tough Vuelta.

Where has his form gone?

His early season form is never good

pelevin

Other than possibly getting less flak from Paul Kimmage & maybe something extra on the salary front - which of course is relevant to a short pro career - as of yet the move from Saxo T to Sky isn't exactly looking a step upwards in Roche's career. He already had a top rider to ride domestique for in Contador for the grand tours, plus with at least thus far every bit as many chances to ride for himself in other races - including the career peak of the 2013 Vuelta. Also given the numbers of strong youngish Sky riders, as shown by the bottleneck of those trying to make their TdF team, it seems he actually held a stronger role in the hierarchy of Saxo, plus in the role of road captain/senior domestique, there was probably more to be learnt from Michael Rogers than anyone at Sky - that kind of nous being both where Sky & Roche seem to come up short.

Having said all that, the Sky TdF squad is yet to be finalised so I'd not be ruling him out on that front yet.

Snowchaser

godtabh wrote: »

His early season form is never good

Is the Dauphine early season?

Brian?

Snowchaser wrote: »

Is the Dauphine early season?

Yes.

pelevin

It's not that early though. The Spring classics - for many the highpoint of the season - have all come & gone - the Giro's been won, the Tour is around the corner. It depends where you're looking from.

Brian?

pelevin wrote: »

It's not that early though. The Spring classics - for many the highpoint of the season - have all come & gone - the Giro's been won, the Tour is around the corner. It depends where you're looking from.

It's early for Roches because the spring classics are meaningless to him. He's a super domestique who's season is base on 1. The Tour and 2. The Vuelta.

godtabh

Brian? wrote: »

It's early for Roches because the spring classics are meaningless to him. He's a super domestique who's season is base on 1. The Tour and 2. The Vuelta.

And he does better in the Vuelta. I think his form should have been better but I would still think Sky will take him

laraghrider

Rocho has said this constantly in the past few years. He doesn't get up to full speed until August time. This was something Riis tried to change at Saxo without much success and Sky decided to push him for the tour and try to bring his form in a little earlier in the season. He has spent the past few months training in the canaries with Froome and is currently training with Porte and Froome. Despite his lack of showing in the Dauphine I'd be very surprised to see him miss out.

pelevin

That's why I said it depends where you're looking from.

Junior

It's also been stated elsewhere that Roche has struggled with the training load that's been assigned to him with Sky so I presume he's been struggling with form as they want him specifically for the Tour. Now if he hasn't been hitting the numbers they want him to, he just won't be there at the Tour. Deignan is the more unknown quantity, his last GT was the Vuelta 3 or 4 years ago now so how he will react to France is something of an unknown.

As for Deignan riding the nationals, I think this will only be his second time in a good few years riding them, and the last time he crashed out.

Fr D Maugire

Junior wrote: »

It's also been stated elsewhere that Roche has struggled with the training load that's been assigned to him with Sky so I presume he's been struggling with form as they want him specifically for the Tour. Now if he hasn't been hitting the numbers they want him to, he just won't be there at the Tour. Deignan is the more unknown quantity, his last GT was the Vuelta 3 or 4 years ago now so how he will react to France is something of an unknown.

As for Deignan riding the nationals, I think this will only be his second time in a good few years riding them, and the last time he crashed out.

Err, Deignan rode both the Giro and Vuelta last year or else I was dreaming seeing him going for stage wins in Italy and riding for Froome in Spain.

Unfortunately I think the fact that Deignan is riding the nationals is the most tell tale sign he won't be in France. If you were riding your first Tour, would you risk racing in an event you have never really done well and ride with amateurs. I would love to see Deignan in Le Tour.

laraghrider

Junior wrote: »

Deignan is the more unknown quantity, his last GT was the Vuelta 3 or 4 years ago now so how he will react to France is something of an unknown.

He rode both Giro and Vuelta last year!

Junior

My bad - I thought it was just this year he had signed for Sky.. It's easy lose a year at this age..

ROK ON

Very sad if PD doesn't make it. There are only a hand full of stages where he can be used to the max of his abilities, but by God on those type of stages (long steep climbs) he can shred a front bunch apart.

If he loses out its a pity but in the first ten stages he is probably surplus to requirements on 8 of them. Bigger men needed to protect a leader with notoriously poor handling at this level.

el tel

I was reading in a French magazine that Sky have been doing tests with new rider whose performance results are outstanding, apparently better than any other rider. The likes of Wiggins, Froome and Porte have actually been talking about him in the French press for a few years, but he's yet to be introduced to the public as a rider for the team.

REBELSAFC

el tel wrote: »

I was reading in a French magazine that Sky have been doing tests with new rider whose performance results are outstanding, apparently better than any other rider. The likes of Wiggins, Froome and Porte have actually been talking about him in the French press for a few years, but he's yet to be introduced to the public as a rider for the team.

That'll be Eddie

happytramp

ROK ON wrote: »

Very sad if PD doesn't make it.

Yeah, realistically he probably won't (although I think he should) riding the nationals is a sign he isn't. I'd like to think his strong performances haven't gone unnoticed and that he is rising through the ranks there.

Regarding the nationals. I'm guessing Sky want would love him to win there, and be wearing the jersey next year (bearing in mind they specifically signed him to capitalize on the Irish interest in the team).

bazermc

Is this now fact or still rumour and speculation. ?

Daniel O Donnel

bazermc wrote: »

Is this now fact or still rumour and speculation. ?

Heard somewhere that sky are announcing their team on Monday.
My only hope for Deignan is that most of the Brits on the sky team are also doing their nationals.

JK.BMC

Roche will ride the Tour; he has been training with Froome for months. Deignan probably wont and I feel sorry for him if so- I will be cheering for him regardless in Omagh, a really classy rider

For me, Sky will be as follows, in a kind of 'order of importance' if you will:

Froome, Porte, Thomas, Roche, Poels, Stannard, Rowe, Henao +1;

If I was picking '+1' it would be Kiriyenka by a mile, but then again, maybe Brailsford wants another 'British' rider in which case Kennaugh comes into the reckoning

But Nico will be there.

dastardly00

Here is a list of Sky riders taking part in National Championship races over the next few days, which might give an indication of who is not part of the TdF team.

Thursday 26 June:
German Time Trial Championships – Christian Knees
Czech Republic Time Trial Championships – Leopold König

Sunday 29 June:
Austrian Road Race Championships – Bernhard Eisel
Czech Republic Road Race Championships – Leopold König
German Road Race Championships – Christian Knees
Great Britain Road Race Championships – Andy Fenn, Peter Kennaugh, Luke Rowe and Ian Stannard
Irish Road Race Championships – Philip Deignan
Norwegian Road Race Championships – Lars Petter Nordhaug

D9Male

I think they will almost certainly have Kennaugh in the team. Leaving him out was an error last year, I think.

on_the_nickel

JK.BMC wrote: »

Roche will ride the Tour; he has been training with Froome for months. Deignan probably wont and I feel sorry for him if so- I will be cheering for him regardless in Omagh, a really classy rider

For me, Sky will be as follows, in a kind of 'order of importance' if you will:

Froome, Porte, Thomas, Roche, Poels, Stannard, Rowe, Henao +1;

If I was picking '+1' it would be Kiriyenka by a mile, but then again, maybe Brailsford wants another 'British' rider in which case Kennaugh comes into the reckoning

But Nico will be there.

Kennaugh is a better rider than Roche.

pelevin

Is it that simple though that Kennaugh is a better rider than Roche? In 5 GTs Kennaugg's best finish is 71st, Roche's results are hugely superior including a Vuelta 5th place. Neither have glittering road careers but it's going perversely the other way from blind patriotic bias imo to declare Kennaugh better than Roche as an obvious fact.

Brian?

on_the_nickel wrote: »

Kennaugh is a better rider than Roche.

I wouldn't think so.

JK.BMC

Maybe he is!
But I still think that Roche will be on the team.
Sure maybe both will - it is possible.

And just think about it: if that bloody "list" hadn't been published, would we have a queue of Irish cycling fans knocking Roche saying he isn't good enough for the tour? Is he really not up to it all of a sudden? Really?

nak

pelevin wrote: »

Is it that simple though that Kennaugh is a better rider than Roche? In 5 GTs Kennaugg's best finish is 71st, Roche's results are hugely superior including a Vuelta 5th place. Neither have glittering road careers but it's going perversely the other way from blind patriotic bias imo to declare Kennaugh better than Roche as an obvious fact.

I think their palmares make clear who is the better rider - Kennaugh is 4 years younger than Roche and has had more wins so far and that's not including the track.

Kavrocks

nak wrote: »

I think their palmares make clear who is the better rider - Kennaugh is 4 years younger than Roche and has had more wins so far and that's not including the track.

Really? What about the teams they've ridden for, the support they've had, they riders they've supported, their goals in races. What about Grand Tour placings? None of that matters? We're just basing this on outright wins?

laraghrider

nak wrote: »

I think their palmares make clear who is the better rider - Kennaugh is 4 years younger than Roche and has had more wins so far and that's not including the track.

Kennaugh does not have a better palmares than Roche. The highest he has come in a GT I think if memory serves me right is about 80th? give or take. Roche has had (again if memory...) 2 top 10 finishes and a handful of there abouts, 16th, 14th etc... His GT record is vastly superior to PK's as is his experience. As for major wins, Roche has the bigger wins on his list i.e. GT stage and double jersey winner in last years route du sud.

I think Kennaugh has great potential but there are a few things about his cycling that he needs to work on.

happytramp

nak wrote: »

I think their palmares make clear who is the better rider - Kennaugh is 4 years younger than Roche and has had more wins so far and that's not including the track.

Utter nonsense. Kennaugh's best result at world tour level is a stage win at the dauphine and 70 something at a GT. How does that make anything clear?

odyssey06

In considering Kennaugh v Roche for slot on Team Sky, wins shouldn't be the measuring stick - they're there to support the leader, not go for wins themselves.

Interestingly, Robert Millar's Team Sky pick doesn't include Roche or Deignan:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/blogs/robert-millar/robert-millar-picks-the-team-sky-squad-for-the-tour-de-france

I think it will all come down to whether Brailsford is picking for form or based on past GT performance... If it's current form Nico might be left out, if it's past GT performance he should be safe. Plus Sky didn't pick him up on the cheap and must have known what they were getting, and he was clearly signed with the intention of supporting Froome in GTs.

I hope to see him there, as from a purely selfish perspective, his tour diary adds to the Tour atmosphere.

nak

happytramp wrote: »

Utter nonsense. Kennaugh's best result at world tour level is a stage win at the dauphine and 70 something at a GT. How does that make anything clear?

He's an Olympic and World champion on the track, plus other wins on the road. I think being out due to injury in the earlier part of this season may affect his chances of being picked for the tour.

Don't think who is and isn't doing nationals is a reflection on who is doing the tour as it means more to some riders than others and some won't race a course that doesn't suit them. Cavendish is doing British champs and the tour, whereas Froome probably never will do nationals and I doubt he sees himself as British anyway.

MPFG

el tel wrote: »

I was reading in a French magazine that Sky have been doing tests with new rider whose performance results are outstanding, apparently better than any other rider. The likes of Wiggins, Froome and Porte have actually been talking about him in the French press for a few years, but he's yet to be introduced to the public as a rider for the team.

Buy this is the whole problem with 'modern' cycling ...and SKY in particular....hitting the numbers does not make you a champion...Sebastian Henao's numbers are supposed to be great and I am sure many a team has signed a rider because of numbers to see them never perform

Roche's numbers must have been good in training otherwise why was he last wheel for Froome in the Dauphine ...but racing is a different ball game altogether..(though people seem to ignore that his Dauphine performance was better than alot of GT team leaders and lets see if riders like Poels and Kennaugh can keep up that level over 3 weeks when they haven't todate )

Dan Martin has said on more than one occasion when he has won ..that he wasn't the strongest ....but imo he was the smartest ...
Relying on numbers really takes away from the art of racing and also undermines the potential of some riders imo

Deignan could ride the Tour if he left SKY ...there are alot of teams out there who would bring him in a flash

pelevin

Yet again for me I don't see the point of comparing road cyclists, and then claiming the track results of the only one who has performed on the track are somehow significant. By the age of 23 Roche had come 13th overall in the Vuelta. At 26 Kennaugh's best grand tour result is 71st, and he doesn't have great one-day results to point to to balance that. The idea his palmares shows him to be superior is nonsense.

niceonetom

You're arguing over who makes the better domestique by comparing how many races they've won.

Think about that for a second.

Has Kennaugh ever even tried to ride for GC in a grand tour? So we're comparing Roche's best effort with a weak French team with no other GC options to Kennaugh riding support for a super-team, doing his job and then sitting up and riding in with the gruppetto so he can do it again tomorrow. How does that make any sense? Apples and etc.

All you can do is look at the preceding weeks to the tour and ask, who showed form? And who looked tired? Or was struggling to contribute?

It's pretty obvious who did, and on that basis Kennaugh is the clear choice.

pelevin

No, all I'm arguing over is who has the better palmares. That was the argument.

MPFG

Let see in the Dauphine

Kennaugh

TTT ...good ( but he comes from track so no surprise there but Poels & Stannard dropped while Roche hung on after going too fast too early)
First day in MTns ....dropped before Deignan, Roche, Poels & Boswell
Wet rolling stage ....dropped early like Roche ....but not Deignan
Second last MTN stage....rode 3rd last wheel ...put in a turn on front and was dropped about 7km before Roche who didn't put in turn and dropped at about 4km
Last stage : Again 3rd last wheel ..put in a turn and again dropped before Rcohe who did put in a turn that was passed by Nibali attack that saw Mollema, Rolland, Peraud, Zubeldia, Talansky, all BMC except TJVG, Valverde and a host of others dropped before Roche.

At Romandie....Kennaugh, Stannard & most of SKY except Roche dropped every day ....he was only rider with Froome every day

I can't speak about tiredness but none of the above is conclusive proof to me that Kennaugh is in better form for a 3 week Tour or indeed is a better GT rider/domestique

niceonetom

That's an amazingly selective account. Kennaugh was part of the TTT that won at Tour de Romandie and he also won, in some style, the first stage of the Dauphiné.