Looking for an Orwell Wheelers cyclist (near-accident case)

Alek

We were both involved in an near-accident on the quays this morning (8:12), where an Expressbus almost run us over when we were stopped by the kerb.

Can you please contact me via PM? I have reported this to Traffic Watch mentioning two cyclists were involved, but my camera was facing the other way. Although you can see the distance that the bus passed me (5cm to the kerb I guess) and that it was 100% intentional to force me to pull my bike from under its wheels at the last moment, still not everything is clear (registration is, thankfully). I'm sure Garda will be contacting me at some stage, they did the last time.

Just in case he is not on boards, can someone from the club ask in their forum?

Fian

Sounds scary, glad you are not injured.

Alek

Thankfully nothing bad happened, bus was going slowly and I hope driver didn't wanted to kill us but rather "give a lesson", but I honestly do not want this ba**ard to drive in public anymore. One day he will miscalculate his "punishment" and someone will die.

OldBean

Glad you're ok Alek. Hope the Gardai follow up.

iwillhtfu

Unfortunately the Gardaí won't do very much as nothing actually happened as far as the law is concerned.

You're probably better off tweeting Bus Éireann and make them aware that their drivers should be taking more care include the garda traffic watch tag aswell. Again it won't do a whole lot but it highlights the issue.

Glad to hear you're alright though it could easily have been a lot worse.

Lusk_Doyle

iwillhtfu wrote: »

Unfortunately the Gardaí won't do very much as nothing actually happened as far as the law is concerned.

You're probably better off tweeting Bus Éireann and make them aware that their drivers should be taking more care include the garda traffic watch tag aswell. Again it won't do a whole lot but it highlights the issue.

Glad to hear you're alright though it could easily have been a lot worse.

Since when is driving without due care nothing in the eyes of the law?

iwillhtfu

Lusk_Doyle wrote: »

Since when is driving without due care nothing in the eyes of the law?

If you're looking for an arguement I'm not your man. So I'll wait and see what the gardai reply is.

I'm not condoning the bus drivers actions but I now plenty of people who have had similar incidents and reported them with nothing much to come out of it as no party was injured.

I'm also assuming that there's no actual footage of "Driving without due care"

Alek

The last time I have reported a similar behaviour (punishment pass by a taxi), a Garda contacted me 2-3 months later asking if I want to continue on the legal route. I didn't then, but in this case I'll think twice.

I read somewhere that when you report via TrafficWatch it is not that easy for a Garda to sweep the case under the carpet.

Alek

I'm also assuming that there's no actual footage of "Driving without due care"

I can post the whole video if you insist.

Harrybelafonte

I reported a driver to Traffic Watch a month or so ago. Since then I have made a statement to a Garda who has made some flow up calls to me. I'm confident she had spoken to the driver in question. It is ALWAYS worth following these things through. I say this as someone who was initially cynical about the outcome of reporting dangerous driving. I'll be making reports as a driver from now on too.

Páid

Don't post the video in public if you intend to "continue on the legal route".

Alek

I'm also assuming that there's no actual footage of "Driving without due care"

I won't just in case, but do you know why exactly?

Páid

Alek wrote: »

I won't just in case, but do you know why exactly?

Because it can prejudice any proceedings taken against the bus driver.

my friend

Near accident = nothing

Move on

magicbastarder

my friend wrote: »

Near accident = nothing

it's not an 'accident' if it was intentional.

thelawman

Alek wrote: »

Thankfully nothing bad happened, bus was going slowly and I hope driver didn't wanted to kill us but rather "give a lesson", but I honestly do not want this ba**ard to drive in public anymore. One day he will miscalculate his "punishment" and someone will die.

what did you do to think that he wanted to "give a lesson" ?

Lusk_Doyle

iwillhtfu wrote: »

If you're looking for an arguement I'm not your man. So I'll wait and see what the gardai reply is.

I'm not condoning the bus drivers actions but I now plenty of people who have had similar incidents and reported them with nothing much to come out of it as no party was injured.

I'm also assuming that there's no actual footage of "Driving without due care"

Not looking for anything other than an answer to my question.

magicbastarder

i had a punishment pass from a bus eireann bus recently. emailed bus eireann about it - i had the time, route number and bus reg, and the response from them was sufficient that i left it there. whether they took the action they claimed they would, i do not know.

iwillhtfu

Alek wrote: »

I can post the whole video if you insist.

Ah here I swear if you go against the grain or play devils advocate even slightly on here you get slammed.

No need to post the video Alek I trusted you at your word in your original OP.

I've yet to see some serious consequences for the actions of poor driving particularly by drivers of HGV's/buses etc and by serious I don't mean a talking to. My children get a talking to when they're out of line and that talk lasts all of a few mins before they're at it again.

Hopefully you report back with better news I just have my doubts tbh. Although as per Harrys post perhaps my eyes are yet to be opened on the results of reporting such incidents.

fat bloke

my friend wrote: »

Near accident = nothing

Move on

My friend is right.

There's no point in addressing the situation until someone is actually killed, or at the very least maimed. Post mortem is when real change can be effected.

iwillhtfu

Lusk_Doyle wrote: »

Not looking for anything other than an answer to my question.

I'll leave it there thanks. You're right I'm wrong.

Alek

what did you do to think that he wanted to "give a lesson" ?

Ask the man. Cycling in the bus lane? Stopping at the kerb?

I am sure he was perfectly aware of my presence, yet he continued a very dangerous manouver that nearly ended with me or my bike being under his bus.

"Giving a lesson" is the only thing that comes to my mind before "wanting to kill".

Lusk_Doyle

iwillhtfu wrote: »

I'll leave it there thanks. You're right I'm wrong.

Fair enough. I was asking a genuine question but ok.

Lumen

Alek wrote: »

I can post the whole video if you insist.

Ah go on then. It'll brighten up a dull Monday afternoon.

Streetwalker

Alek wrote: »

Thankfully nothing bad happened, bus was going slowly and I hope driver didn't wanted to kill us but rather "give a lesson", but I honestly do not want this ba**ard to drive in public anymore. One day he will miscalculate his "punishment" and someone will die.

So the guy made an error and you want him to lose his job? Nice.

Alek

So the guy made an error

Do you call willfully driving a huge vehicle at someone "an error"?

Yes, seriously I do not want this kind of "erroneus people" to drive. Chances that he will lose his job are null, the best I hope for is a warning letter from his company HR - maybe he will think twice before "erring" again.

iwillhtfu

Streetwalker wrote: »

So the guy made an error and you want him to lose his job? Nice.

no one other than the driver knows his intentions.

In saying that of any driver a bus driver should have the highest level of awareness for pedestrians/cyclists etc.

Alek

no one other than the driver knows his intentions.

This is true, but we all live our lifes learning how to judge other people's intentions from their behaviour.

As I was involved in the situation I am biased - and that's why I'm leaving this decision in the hands of the right people.

I still have right to express my opinion that his actions were intentional.

magicbastarder

iwillhtfu wrote: »

I'm also assuming that there's no actual footage of "Driving without due care"

if the complaint was brought to the bus company, they may have footage of the incident; that said, the complaint could end up in the 'disappearance' of the footage.

iwillhtfu

Alek wrote: »

I still have right to express my opinion that his actions were intentional.

Absolutely you do man. This place is mainly made up of opinions.

I've been on the receiving end of some of these intentions myself it's never a pleasant experience.

Stay safe.

Eamonnator

my friend wrote: »

Near accident = nothing

Move on

A while back, I was cycling north on the N2, about 10K south of Slane.
I was turning right off the N2, at Curtis' Cross. There is a right turn lane, I was in this lane, just about to turn, when a lorry came out of the side road. He was coming directly for me, I swerved and shouted at the top of my voice.He missed me by inches. He stopped, I asked him, why he hadn't stopped. He told me, that he hadn't seen me. I swore at him, I called him a blind f***ing c***. I got his number and cycled on. I decided to report the matter to the Gardai in Navan. I rang them and arranged to call to Navan Garda Station to make a statement. I made the statement.The driver was summonsed for Careless Driving, he pleaded guilty. He was fined 200Euro and got 2 penalty points.
Near accident does not necessarily equal nothing.
It is only by reporting these "near accidents" that drivers can be called to account for their misdemeanours.

granturismo

Alek wrote: »

The last time I have reported a similar behaviour (punishment pass by a taxi), a Garda contacted me 2-3 months later asking if I want to continue on the legal route. I didn't then, but in this case I'll think twice.

I read somewhere that when you report via TrafficWatch it is not that easy for a Garda to sweep the case under the carpet.

Why would you report an incident and then not proceed when the Gardai contact you?

It doesnt seem that the Gardai swept anything under the carpet.

shansey

Same thing happened to me with Dublin bus. He came up behind me and started beeping ( I was in the bus lane, no cycle lane). I pulled in closer to the kerb to let him past and threw my hands in the air as if to say "what are you doing". He then proceeded to cut me off almost mounting the kerb himself.

I had every intention of reporting it but as anger subsided I just carried on living my life.

Stil pr1cks like that shouldn't get away with it!

CramCycle

If it was intentional, it is vehicular assault, much the same as shouting as someone may appear to be nothing as no physical harm was done.

Assault is assault. I always regret not pushing further with the driver who admitted to me on camera that he done it intentionally. BE where unable to "download the footage" after they had reviewed it.

I have never seen the driver on that route again, I presume he was just moved elsewhere thanks to their lovely semi state reaction tactics.

endacl

Alek wrote: »

I can post the whole video if you insist.

Not just yet. See how it resolves. I would be interested in seeing it, in the future.

endacl

magicbastarder wrote: »

i had a punishment pass from a bus eireann bus recently. emailed bus eireann about it - i had the time, route number and bus reg, and the response from them was sufficient that i left it there. whether they took the action they claimed they would, i do not know.

Out of interest, what was the action?

petethedrummer

my friend wrote: »

Near accident = nothing

Move on

A fella swung a machete at me this morning on the street. He missed though. I won't bother reporting.

Alek

Why would you report an incident and then not proceed when the Gardai contact you?

I have asked Garda to contact the taxi driver directly and give him informal warning. This is what I was after in relation to *that* situation.

magicbastarder

endacl wrote: »

Out of interest, what was the action?

this was the response i received:

"I refer to your email dated 6th June, 2015 and regret any distress caused to you by one of our services on Saturday 6th June, 2015.

The difficulties experienced by you are most unfortunate. The safety of our passengers and other road users is of paramount importance to Bus Éireann. I was most concerned to note the behaviour of the driver as outlined by you and the lack of courtesy afforded to you on this occasion. Instances as outlined in your email are taken very seriously and investigated thoroughly. We are very conscious of the need to treat all passengers with due care and courtesy at all times and all staff members are required to attend regular customer care courses in this regard.

The driver concerned has been identified and arrangements have been made to interview him regarding this incident as outlined by you. I would like to assure you that this matter will be dealt with accordingly and suitable corrective action taken in order to ensure there is no recurrence of your difficulties.

On behalf of Bus Éireann, I would like to thank you for bringing this matter to our attention and please accept our sincere apologies for any distress caused to you on this occasion."

galwaycyclist

iwillhtfu wrote: »

Unfortunately the Gardaí won't do very much as nothing actually happened as far as the law is concerned.

You're probably better off tweeting Bus Éireann and make them aware that their drivers should be taking more care include the garda traffic watch tag aswell. Again it won't do a whole lot but it highlights the issue.

Glad to hear you're alright though it could easily have been a lot worse.

I understand where you are coming from with that. I am aware of a case where a cyclist was deliberately pushed off a road by a driver using their car as a weapon.

The guards took the view that as there was no injury there was no case. Indeed the guards insisted on treating it as a traffic collision rather than an assault.

However one key difference in Alek's case is that there are potentially two witnesses to the incident, Alek and the person from Orwell Wheelers.

When there is more than one witness, who are not already known to each other, then it is harder for the guards to bury the case.

irishrover99

Last week a bus driver came from behind me and overtook me on a straight road while nearly forcing me into a parked car.
When i caught up to him he asked me if i had right of way even though i was in front of him. I was amazed with what he said and had doubts if he knew the rules of the road.
I wish i could have got the company name and reg of the bus.
Companies have "hows my driving" signs on there buses and trucks for a reason and its up to the driver to make a defence if reported.
I doubt one report would get a driver fired and i'm sure they are on the look out for repeat offenders.
Alek has every right to report the driver if he feels his life was put in danger. He could be saving other lives from sharing the road with this guy

galwaycyclist

irishrover99 wrote: »

Last week a bus driver came from behind me and overtook me on a straight road while nearly forcing me into a parked car.
When i caught up to him he asked me if i had right of way even though i was in front of him. I was amazed with what he said and had doubts if he knew the rules of the road.
I wish i could have got the company name and reg of the bus.
Companies have "hows my driving" signs on there buses and trucks for a reason and its up to the driver to make a defence if reported.
I doubt one report would get a driver fired and i'm sure they are on the look out for repeat offenders.
Alek has every right to report the driver if he feels his life was put in danger. He could be saving other lives from sharing the road with this guy

There is case law on this. If someone in front of you is clearly going to have to pull out to overtake an obstacle, then the driver coming from behind must yield.

I think there was even a case where a cyclist had to pull out of a hard shoulder to pass a stopped truck and it was held that a driver who hit him from behind was at fault because it was obvious the cyclist would have to pull out.

Might take me a few days to dig out.

daheff

Eamonnator wrote: »

A while back, I was cycling north on the N2, about 10K south of Slane.
I was turning right off the N2, at Curtis' Cross. There is a right turn lane, I was in this lane, just about to turn, when a lorry came out of the side road. He was coming directly for me, I swerved and shouted at the top of my voice.He missed me by inches. He stopped, I asked him, why he hadn't stopped. He told me, that he hadn't seen me. I swore at him, I called him a blind f***ing c***. I got his number and cycled on. I decided to report the matter to the Gardai in Navan. I rang them and arranged to call to Navan Garda Station to make a statement. I made the statement.The driver was summonsed for Careless Driving, he pleaded guilty. He was fined 200Euro and got 2 penalty points.
Near accident does not necessarily equal nothing.
It is only by reporting these "near accidents" that drivers can be called to account for their misdemeanours.

Surely an incident like this is a your word vs his unless he admits guilt in court (or there is video/photographic/ 3rd party evidence). ?

Eamonnator

daheff wrote: »

Surely an incident like this is a your word vs his unless he admits guilt in court (or there is video/photographic/ 3rd party evidence). ?

No video, no 3rd party evidence. I suppose, the driver didn't want to commit perjury.

rollingscone

In answer to some of the questions about "why report?":

If someone does it more than once then there will be a pattern to be recognised.

As to some innocent losing their job. A criminal conviction is not easily attained so it's a safe bet that if someone does get the sack it will be well earned. And bus companies don't sack drivers just for being in accidents.

ThisRegard

I had a crazy ass incident but when I was driving. Thought traffic watch weren't following it up but a nice garda called weeks later. Usual story, do I want to go to court. I told them I was happy for him to be warned, the scare might get him to cop on, but if he had history I would.

JBokeh

Are the busses running a system where bollockings are handed out for lateness? That could go a way to explaining why they've so many run ins with so many cyclists, or else it is just in the handbook to get a cyclist into their blind spot and then squeeze them and hold up the blindspot card

I think one of the courier/haulage companies (either here or UK) used to have a bonus for drivers avoiding unnecessary speeding up and braking, but scrapped it because there was either accidents or dodgy driving going on because of it

Wishbone Ash

I had a positive experience with the Gardai a few weeks ago. Near Swords, a truck driver came up close behind me, attempting to overtake while sounding his horn. I was on a busy narrow road with no hard shoulder. I raised my hand as if to say "Where do you want me to go?" and I also pointed at the continuous white line. This seemed to exacerbate his behaviour. He didn't help himself by doing so in a very distinctive truck with his employers livery all over it.

I was close to Swords Garda Station so called in and reported it. I didn't think any more of it until I got a call a few weeks later from a Garda who said that he had contacted the driver's employer who gave him a bollocking and the employer made the driver call to Swords Garda Station to make an apology. The Garda said that the driver was also willing to apologise to me in person but I was happy enough with the outcome.

JBokeh wrote: »

....I think one of the courier/haulage companies (either here or UK) used to have a bonus for drivers avoiding unnecessary speeding up and braking, ...

Those incentives are usually employed to reduce costs - fuel, brakes, tyres, general wear and tear etc. A truck driver with a heavy right foot will incur greater costs for the company compared to a gentle driver without any difference in productivity. E.g. that pointless habit of accelerating towards a red light instead of easing off the power and trying to 'time' the change without losing momentum. Or accelerating hard with a full load from lights, junctions etc. which is just wasteful and of no benefit overall as maximum speed will be reached a few seconds later with normal acceleration.

Pinch Flat

magicbastarder wrote: »

i had a punishment pass from a bus eireann bus recently. emailed bus eireann about it - i had the time, route number and bus reg, and the response from them was sufficient that i left it there. whether they took the action they claimed they would, i do not know.

Interesting to see the bus eireann employees and employees of other companies comment on other forums, the road safety authority in particular. I'm sure their employers would be interested to see their comments.

I had a Bus Eireann coach tail gate me down the quays at Guinness a couple of months ago - blaring his horn and driving extremely close behind. Eventually he overtook me - passing within inches of me. I let it slide but next driver taking it further

marty_crane

Recently I had an unfortunate incident with a truck where there was no collision but I contacted Traffic Watch and this guy was prosecuted, fined and had points put on his licence. As the wise man once said "that'll learn him".

Doubtless it helped my case that I had a camera fitted to my helmet at the time (which, had the driver been paying any attention really should have seen). I proceeded down this road not to lose this man his livelihood but to make him cop on a bit.

wheelo01

As a cyclist, motorist and bus driver (I know, I know) I have to say that there are really bad road users from all three groups, but I personally, just give an extra little bit of space to bicycles because they are the only ones whose vehicle won't protect them in the event of an accident.
I rarely get upset/frustrated while on the bus as if something slows me down and I don't make it to my terminus on time then I do less journeys per day.