To dangerous to commute enough is enough

willdill

Only a year after getting a bike i decided to give up the commute to work as for my own safety.3 really near misses coming through town on my way home is the last straw.every bloody day some moron pulls across u and turns left no indicators or pulls in front of you without giving a ****.on top of that iv already been knocked down as well all drivers fault flying straight on to a round about and burying me under the car.seriously 90% of the idiots wont even glance for a cyclist.oh and im not one of these im a cyclist were all perfect coz im well up for the new law of cyclist been fined for breaking lights.complete morons too.ill stick to my spins in the evening times around the suburbs at least u have a better chance of making it home alive.

AstraMonti

They are a lot of dangerous people out there, but what about your cycling style? Do you take an assertive line in the roundabouts or do you hold the lane where you should? You need to protect yourself first rather than hoping they will notice you.

jon1981

Commuting to/from where? Through what areas? Bit of context to understand and help discuss please

willdill

Tallaght to kilbarrack coming through the city center christ church,the quays seems to be all through the city centre.Clowns jumping and sppeding in to any space or corner nealy killing ye.

traume

I'm commuting to work every day. There are pri... but there are decent drivers as well.
Often I'm driver as well and I see which cyclist is decent and which is not. And really sorry to say this - but most cyclists are pri... as well.
I got in fight with mate of mine - we were cycling together and he decided to take the second line on the road because that's what we should be doing, BUT when cycling always have to remember - be safe. Crap the ideas what you have to do or don't have to do - be safe!
Guys with legs like bricks and traveling at 40-50km/h can take second line because they are not slowing anyone down, but us - commuters who travels from long days work should switch on the brains and protect our self.
I'm sorry to hear that you are giving up cycling, there are so much benefits for that, maybe you can pick slightly longer route, but safer?
I have my own ways of dealing with bad drivers, but I'm sure that I can't post it here

willdill

ill just give up the commute to work as i said the city center is to dangerous.i try be as safe careful and alert as possible going through town but what can you do when driver just pull in front and over on top of you.even with that they keep driving not even knowing they have nearly killed you.

Wishbone Ash

willdill wrote: »

.. what can you do when driver just pull in front and over on top of you.even with that they keep driving not even knowing they have nearly killed you.

Are you cycling close to the left? If so, move over and take command of the traffic lane.

willdill

yep i cycle as close as possible to the left maybe noyt a bad idea to do that but im sure horns would be blasting all over the place with furious drivers

Darkglasses

willdill wrote: »

yep i cycle as close as possible to the left maybe noyt a bad idea to do that but im sure horns would be blasting all over the place with furious drivers

It's leaving yourself open to trouble, if you put your own safety first you'll have a better time. Keep working at it and I think you'll find commuting by bike can be very fun and stress free. Took me a while to get better at it too.

nak

willdill wrote: »

Tallaght to kilbarrack coming through the city center christ church,the quays seems to be all through the city centre.Clowns jumping and sppeding in to any space or corner nealy killing ye.

Change your route? I try and find quieter roads to cycle on in town, wouldn't go down the quays.

Sad Professor

I was recently sideswiped by an overtaking car and spent the night in hospital, so I understand where the OP is coming from. It’s only been a few weeks and maybe I’ll feel differently when the injuries have healed, but I’m not sure if I’ll be cycling to work again.

Maybe it’s my imagination, but I’ve found many motorists rather unsympathetic when I tell them about my accident, assuming that I was at fault or asking questions like “where you on the road?” or going on semi-jokey rants about cyclists not paying road tax. It’s a little demoralising.

I never hug the curb and always take the lane when necessary, but that can be a risk in itself if the wrong type of motorist is behind you. On more than one occasion a car has aggressively overtaken me and almost collided with oncoming traffic.

willdill

nak wrote: »

Change your route? I try and find quieter roads to cycle on in town, wouldn't go down the quays.

think i may hit ride with gps maybe check back roads from clondalkin back around to lucan or by blanchardstown or something.reckon it would be a lot safer

rollingscone

willdill wrote: »

yep i cycle as close as possible to the left maybe noyt a bad idea to do that but im sure horns would be blasting all over the place with furious drivers

I take a commanding position about 1-1.5m out from the kerb, rarely encounter anything like trouble.

Good positioning technique and reading the road are 90% of your road safety needs. Most drivers will be ok as long as they are aware of you and can predict more or less what you're doing next.

Hugging the kerb gives the illusion that you're not part of the traffic and people start thinking of you as an effectively stationary object.

Lots of life savers (glances back over your right shoulder ) and big hand signals remind drivers that you're sharing a space with them and you'll generally fine they'll react by passing you more cautiously and giving way where practical.

Being predictable is also about obeying the rules of the road, stopping at stop lines and red lights, cycling in the correct lanes and giving way to traffic from your right and pedestrians for e.g. Make it easier for drivers to be aware of and plan around you instead of having to make frustrated guesses about where you might pop up next.

Also bear in mind that merging from an off road cycle lane (grown ups don't use the footpad) is much more likely to be dangerous than cars that see you passing you on a parallel line of travel.

willdill

Sad Professor wrote: »

I was recently sideswiped by an overtaking car and spent the night in hospital, so I understand where the OP is coming from. It’s only been a few weeks and maybe I’ll feel differently when the injuries have healed, but I’m not sure if I’ll be cycling to work again.

Maybe it’s my imagination, but I’ve found many motorists rather unsympathetic when I tell them about my accident, assuming that I was at fault or asking questions like “where you on the road?” or going on semi-jokey rants about cyclists not paying road tax. It’s a little demoralising.

I never hug the curb and always take the lane when necessary, but that can be a risk in itself if the wrong type of motorist is behind you. On more than one occasion a car has aggressively overtaken me and almost collided with oncoming traffic.

one of the cars who nearly ran me over today rolled the window down and 2 fingers up.its like get the **** off the road its for us.

micar

You have to be commanding on the bike. I criss cross the city every day.

Am lucky as half most of my route is on a dedicated cycle lane on the same level as the footpath
Where I am sharing the road is tend to stay on the left but would move over to the the extreme right coming up to junctions. I don't care about the cars. I am not for my own safety allowing cars who are turning left to cut across me.

I'd be one on those travelling 35km per hour.

ScouseMouse

Sad Professor wrote: »

I was recently sideswiped by an overtaking car and spent the night in hospital, so I understand where the OP is coming from. It’s only been a few weeks and maybe I’ll feel differently when the injuries have healed, but I’m not sure if I’ll be cycling to work again.

Maybe it’s my imagination, but I’ve found many motorists rather unsympathetic when I tell them about my accident, assuming that I was at fault or asking questions like “where you on the road?” or going on semi-jokey rants about cyclists not paying road tax. It’s a little demoralising.

I never hug the curb and always take the lane when necessary, but that can be a risk in itself if the wrong type of motorist is behind you. On more than one occasion a car has aggressively overtaken me and almost collided with oncoming traffic.

The comment about "were you on the road", probably stems from motorists seeing cyclists ignoring purpose built cycle lanes, and blending in with the general traffic. Every morning at 7am, I see a lemon on a bike doing this and the road he is on is VERY busy. Its the N4 inbound at the M50 merge. There are regular car accidents and lots of tail backs. You would think he would be glad of the alterntive route. I am surprised the guy has not been wiped out before now.

willdill

rollingscone wrote: »

I take a commanding position about 1-1.5m out from the kerb, rarely encounter anything like trouble.

Good positioning technique and reading the road are 90% of your road safety needs. Most drivers will be ok as long as they are aware of you and can predict more or less what you're doing next.

Hugging the kerb gives the illusion that you're not part of the traffic and people start thinking of you as an effectively stationary object.

Lots of life savers (glances back over your right shoulder ) and big hand signals remind drivers that you're sharing a space with them and you'll generally fine they'll react by passing you more cautiously and giving way where practical.

Being predictable is also about obeying the rules of the road, stopping at stop lines and red lights, cycling in the correct lanes and giving way to traffic from your right and pedestrians for e.g. Make it easier for drivers to be aware of and plan around you instead of having to make frustrated guesses about where you might pop up next.

Also bear in mind that merging from an off road cycle lane (grown ups don't use the footpad) is much more likely to be dangerous than cars that see you passing you on a parallel line of travel.

i would class myself as a careful safe cyclist using hand signals red lights etc.its morons who just pass by and pull in on top of u without even a glance in there mirrors.the time i was knocked down a woman came merging from the left looking at a car behind me and bang just straight over me.they aint looking out for cyclists at all

Casey78

I bet you never break red lights....

jimgoose

Sadly, not every motorist is as observant and considerate as they should be. The best advice I can give is to maintain the same lane-discipline as any other road user, use hand signals when appropriate, and refrain from sudden, unexpected lane- or position-changes. Be careful out there, and the best of luck.

willdill

Casey78 wrote: »

I bet you never break red lights....

as a matter of fact no i dont mate.mabe one of very few who dont but when youv been ran over and stuck under a car it would kinda make you think before you would break a red light

tritium

ScouseMouse wrote: »

The comment about "were you on the road", probably stems from motorists seeing cyclists ignoring purpose built cycle lanes, and blending in with the general traffic. Every morning at 7am, I see a lemon on a bike doing this and the road he is on is VERY busy. Its the N4 inbound at the M50 merge. There are regular car accidents and lots of tail backs. You would think he would be glad of the alterntive route. I am surprised the guy has not been wiped out before now.

You are aware that cycle lanes aren't compulsory right? In my experience there may be many reasons not to use them from a safety perspective. Usually it may come down to picking the least bad option.

(And Jesus do I get sick of morons in cars telling cyclists to get on to the cycle lane)

jon1981

I cycle through Dublin city every day (twice) from Clanbrassil st/Patricks st up to the quays and out to Artane.

I'm afraid to comment here incase i jinx myself

willdill

tritium wrote: »

You are aware that cycle lanes aren't compulsory right? In my experience there may be many reasons not to use them from a safety perspective. Usually it may come down to picking the least bad option.

(And Jesus do I get sick of morons in cars telling cyclists to get on to the cycle lane)

So you have the option to use the cycle lane if you want to or not am i correct

Youngblood.III

tritium wrote: »

You are aware that cycle lanes aren't compulsory right? In my experience there may be many reasons not to use them from a safety perspective

please tell us, I need to hear this...it will probably sum up why motorists hate cyclists attitudes on the road

rollingscone

Youngblood.III wrote: »

please tell us, I need to hear this...it will probably sum up why motorists hate cyclists attitudes on the road

you could use the search function. There may even be a mega thread.

it's strange that you say that though because I haven't come across many motorists that hate cyclists at all.

But then that's a false divide created by people who don't want to acknowledge complexity or that there are many situations in which using a bicycle makes more sense.

Cyclists aren't elves, they're people who are at the time encoutered are using bicycles. When they're using their cars do they hate themselves?

Do they pile in to threads started by shaken road users to start ranting at them?

mrcheez

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Are you cycling close to the left? If so, move over and take command of the traffic lane.

On my cycle home today, I was slightly right of centre of lane (overtaking parked cars), where I normally go in these situations.

Had a car overtake me, crossing into the oncoming traffic lane despite a solid white line.

Came within 5cm of me (the wind from the car moved me slightly). Never had this happen before, and normally I'd chase after them, but I just shrugged my shoulders.

I'm getting too tolerant of crappy drivers.. this can't be a good thing.

tritium

Youngblood.III wrote: »

please tell us, I need to hear this...it will probably sum up why motorists hate cyclists attitudes on the road

Given that any cyclist doing what I described is obeying the rules of the road like a law abiding citizen I'm not really sure why any motorist would hate them for it. Possible internal angst at their own lack of knowledge of same maybe? Maybe you could enlighten me?

ScouseMouse

tritium wrote: »

You are aware that cycle lanes aren't compulsory right? In my experience there may be many reasons not to use them from a safety perspective. Usually it may come down to picking the least bad option.

(And Jesus do I get sick of morons in cars telling cyclists to get on to the cycle lane)

I was aware of that. But then why was a lot of money spent on cycle lanes for ungrateful cyclists who then complain when crashes happen and "for many reasons", they chose to not use the dedicated lanes ?

And before you start, I know this is a cycling forum and I am not trolling, its a genuine question.

beauf

ScouseMouse wrote: »

I was aware of that. But then why was a lot of money spent on cycle lanes for ungrateful cyclists who then complain when crashes happen and "for many reasons", they chose to not use the dedicated lanes ?

And before you start, I know this is a cycling forum and I am not trolling, its a genuine question.

Why not create a new thread. There are many reasons and to go into it here will derail this thread. But I suggest doing some research and include it in the thread when you create it.

beauf

willdill wrote: »

Only a year after getting a bike i decided to give up the commute to work as for my own safety....

I used to take a longer route, (10 mins longer) on my commute to take a nicer cycling route. I still do that now. Even on a short spin I often take a much longer route to avoid certain roads, junctions. You find certain roads attract a certain type of driver too.

The only drawback with this is that it rules out some journeys for me as I can't find a route I like.

willdill

ScouseMouse wrote: »

I was aware of that. But then why was a lot of money spent on cycle lanes for ungrateful cyclists who then complain when crashes happen and "for many reasons", they chose to not use the dedicated lanes ?

And before you start, I know this is a cycling forum and I am not trolling, its a genuine question.

My commute from tallaght to kilbarrack has no dedicated cycle lanes through the city centre.change my route? Maybe.but is in that like saying all the money spent on motorways and these guys use city roads

Darkglasses

ScouseMouse wrote: »

I was aware of that. But then why was a lot of money spent on cycle lanes for ungrateful cyclists who then complain when crashes happen and "for many reasons", they chose to not use the dedicated lanes ?

And before you start, I know this is a cycling forum and I am not trolling, its a genuine question.

Why were they built? Box-ticking sometimes. Fulfill quota of 1,000m of new cycle lanes in a given year. Without a thought given to their useability. Clearly many of them are not actually designed to help cyclists navigate a car-centric transport system. Examples of why they can be unuseable are highlighted in the recent campaign.

And some are just comical.

But, this thread is for the OP and his commuting issues, not justifying not using cycle lanes

LeinsterDub

Youngblood.III wrote: »

please tell us, I need to hear this...it will probably sum up why motorists hate cyclists attitudes on the road

.. potholed, glass filled, bin lined, bus stops in the middle.... Hidden junctions, randomly end,.... No thought given to needing to take a side road off the lane .....

And thats the better ones

willdill

Weepsie wrote: »

Because the dedicated lanes are not good enough and I would argue not dedicated at all for the most part.

They're an afterthought, a painted white line on the edge where its known debris gathers, shores are placed, water pools, trees and hedges overhang, pedestrians step into blindly, cars cut into to avoid speed bumps.

The other paths are occupied by people pushing buggies, dog walkers, have poles lumped into them, people gathering at bus stops, disappear completely often with a dangerous drop off a kerb.

There are tines when he lines disappear into a kerb too so its hard to judge the you've gone up above the road slightly thinking you've crossed a line and accidents happen. Saw one just this weekend.

Everything is too car centric for a place which has relatively small distances to get anywhere in urban areas at the least

well said mate couldnt agree more

tritium

ScouseMouse wrote: »

I was aware of that. But then why was a lot of money spent on cycle lanes for ungrateful cyclists who then complain when crashes happen and "for many reasons", they chose to not use the dedicated lanes ?

And before you start, I know this is a cycling forum and I am not trolling, its a genuine question.

I'm not sure why cyclists would be considered ungrateful for obeying the law. Its a bit like arguing that motorists who use national roads are ungrateful if there's a motorway available

Leroy42

Don't stop using the bike. Instead either take another route, or if not that then simply take more time on the commute. As others have said take the lane, or at least take more of the lane than normal. Sure, you will get car drivers annoyed but its not your job to get out of their way its your job to ensure your safety.

I cycle a lot but hadn't cycled in town on commute for years. The 1st time I went down the south keys really scared me, even more so as I always thought I was confident on the bike. But I took my time and took things slowly and I got more confident. You will get to know the pinch points, the danger areas. You will start to anticipate the type of drivers that cause problems. I can't explain it but you can just tell by looking at the car.

Most other road users are only interested in getting where they have to go, as quickly and safely as possible. The vast majority do not want any near misses or potential accidents. You will always, and this goes for other cyclists as well, get those you think only of themselves and have a tunnel vision, but when you are faced with these simply slow down/stop and let them on their way. Make sure that you are not the statistic they seem hell bent on achieving.

I see lots of things that annoy me on my commute, and I dare say when I move across to the right hand lane I annoy the cars but I have only had the occasional beep or abuse and I just ignore it. Why they think I have impeded them when it is quite clear that right ahead is another line of traffic and red lights is beyond me.

I am lucky in that I haven't had an accident in a few years and hopefully that will continue (quite a few near misses mind) but overall the level of serious accidents involving cyclists is small and when you consider that the alternatives are either driving or public transport (and therefore walking) and they carry their own risks.

You have had your confidence broken, you need to get it back. Take your time, maybe cycle to work earlier to avoid the worst traffic, only cycle on nice days, whatever, just build up your confidence and don't let other actions drive you away from what you want to do

micar

tritium wrote: »

You are aware that cycle lanes aren't compulsory right? In my experience there may be many reasons not to use them from a safety perspective. Usually it may come down to picking the least bad option.

(And Jesus do I get sick of morons in cars telling cyclists to get on to the cycle lane)

Youngblood.III wrote: »

please tell us, I need to hear this...it will probably sum up why motorists hate cyclists attitudes on the road

Crap surface with plenty of glass.

Carawaystick

OP,
Consider cycling in the greenhills road- Bunting road - Crumlin road from Hospital to Dolphin's barn, past the coombe hospital in Cork St - Patrick st

Or just past the Coombe hospital you can go left onto Marrowbone lane, follow this til its one way against you - then right down a lane to Meath st - Thomas st High st

This has cycle lanes the whole way, apart from the lane& Meath st.

I'd come up to the top of Dorset st, right to Temple st or NCR, then out by Jones road, CLonliffe road Fairview and your route of choice to Kilbarrack. I'd go most of the way to TOnlegee road on the Malahide road

willdill

Carawaystick wrote: »

OP,
Consider cycling in the greenhills road- Bunting road - Crumlin road from Hospital to Dolphin's barn, past the coombe hospital in Cork St - Patrick st

Or just past the Coombe hospital you can go left onto Marrowbone lane, follow this til its one way against you - then right down a lane to Meath st - Thomas st High st

This has cycle lanes the whole way, apart from the lane& Meath st.

I'd come up to the top of Dorset st, right to Temple st or NCR, then out by Jones road, CLonliffe road Fairview and your route of choice to Kilbarrack. I'd go most of the way to TOnlegee road on the Malahide road

i do most of that up as far as cork st.its at patricks street and all along the quays that are really bad.might try te way you say after that see how i get on cheers mate

ScouseMouse

Believe it or not, I agree with some of the sentiments here. I am a motorcyclist and am well aware I have no protection against the dopes on the roads these days. I am in a van most of the time, but am nervous as hell on the bike.

Although, if there is a cycle lane available, I still think you should use it. Better a pothole or stupid design, than risking it with the absolute ejits driving on the general roads.

beauf

ScouseMouse wrote: »

...Although, if there is a cycle lane available, I still think you should use it. Better a pothole or stupid design, than risking it with the absolute ejits driving on the general roads.

Some research (and experience) would say otherwise.

Darkglasses

ScouseMouse wrote: »

Believe it or not, I agree with some of the sentiments here. I am a motorcyclist and am well aware I have no protection against the dopes on the roads these days. I am in a van most of the time, but am nervous as hell on the bike.

Although, if there is a cycle lane available, I still think you should use it. Better a pothole or stupid design, than risking it with the absolute ejits driving on the general roads.

Here's the thing, cycle lanes frequently put you in all of the worst possible positions on the road. Up the blindspot of buses and lorries, alongside a row of parked cars, inches from walkers and runners, etc. Just cause your in a cycle lane doesn't mean you actually have any protection from other road users.

Youngblood.III

tritium wrote: »

obeying the rules of the road like a law abiding citizen

You lost any credibility here...

Youngblood.III

rollingscone wrote: »

Cyclists aren't elves, they're people

Then start acting like people.

CramCycle

Youngblood.III wrote: »

please tell us, I need to hear this...it will probably sum up why motorists hate cyclists attitudes on the road

Youngblood.III wrote: »

You lost any credibility here...

Youngblood.III wrote: »

Then start acting like people.

MOD VOICE: Don't post in this thread again, any questions, we can discuss via PM. To everyopne else, please do not respond to Youngblood.IIIs posts as he won't be responding and that would be unfair.

Alf Veedersane

Holding a good line, as rollingcone said, is important. You also have to assume that other pedestrains, drivers and other cyclists will do something stupid and be ready to react.

I've cycled through the city for many years and I've yet to be in an accident (*touches wood*). Maybe I've been lucky, I don't know. But assuming that the car is likely to pull out in front of me even thjoughy they should surely have seen me helps.

beauf

I think the thread would be most useful if people could suggest routes for the op.

tomasrojo

beauf wrote: »

I used to take a longer route, (10 mins longer) on my commute to take a nicer cycling route. I still do that now. Even on a short spin I often take a much longer route to avoid certain roads, junctions. You find certain roads attract a certain type of driver too.

The only drawback with this is that it rules out some journeys for me as I can't find a route I like.

I have come to the conclusion that the single, most effective step you can take to be safe is to pick your routes carefully. To minimise your cumulative risk, your frequently used routes require especial attention.

I'm not that pushed personally about the presence or absence of cycle tracks (I find some of them good, most of them bad or downright counterproductive), but I really care whether the route has narrow lanes with many fast-moving, impatient drivers.

Qualitymark

Could people offer quiet alternative routes from Tallaght to Kilbarrack?

I don't myself like cycling through the Christchurch crossroads, and will almost always find an alternative route to avoid that junction - drivers seem to get a bit panicky about lane choices there. Sometimes even swinging left and going up through Church Street works better for me.

Doeshedare

This might be of use:
I have commuted from Baldoyle to Tallaght and back a few times recently (should have this morning but too tired). I work close to the roundabout at Kiltipper road and Firhouse road west. I cycle from there along Firhouse Road Oldbawn road, Firhouse Road then left onto R817 (Ballyroan Rd?) cross the N81 and down all the way to Harold X (road name changes lots). If you are closer to the N81 then you could use this too as far as the R817. At Harolds X I go down the canal. THe bit from the canal to the north side of the Liffey is a mess but I usually try to get to the Sam Beckett bridge and from there either 5 lamps to Fairview to Clontarf Coast road cycle lane (some of which is dodgy) or Sheriff St, East Rd, East Wall Rd and CLontarf coast cycle lane (feels safer except East Wall Rd). CLontarf coast cycle lane eventually gets to Kilbarrack Rd.
To Baldoyle its about 26k and takes me 70 mins (being a good boy).

There are lots of cycle lanes in the above, some I use some I avoid for reasons explained by others earlier.

You need to be assertive close to Harolds X and again 5 Lamps to Clontarf but other than that (and the mess xing the river) it has been fine.

Alf Veedersane

It's actually not that much longer if instead of crossing the canal and heading towards Christchurch to follow the canal and go down towards Ringsend, cross the East Link and on out to Fairview via the East Wall Rd.

That said, it's been a while since I was down that way but might be an option?