Constant proposal pressure

LegacyUser

Hi all,

I've been with my girlfriend for the past three years. There have been some ups and downs in that time but generally things are very good and we're both happy.

We have an understanding that at some point in the next five years we'll get married. I'm happy with this as I would like to get married in the future but do feel like that I'm not comfortable with being married yet, largely based on my age (mid 20s).

My girlfriend says that she is happy with this but recently has actually not stopped mentioning it with no more than a few days rest here and there. While she denies it, these really do feel like hints and prods to "get a move on". Talking about rings, what the service will be like, how great it will all be and also just the fact that it's going to happen etc. etc.

Honestly, I'm not particularly happy to have these constant prods to do something that I don't want for a few years. It's making me quite uncomfortable and I'm getting very frustrated with this.

It did cross my mind that she's testing to make sure that I haven't changed my mind. But I don't understand why that would need to be assessed with such intense frequency. Additionally she denies this too.

Talking to her has not helped.

Can anyone advise a good way to get my point across that these hints and unwelcome, make me uncomfortable and that I don't want to wish my life away by jumping from milestone to milestone without enjoying and living my life along the way?

R.D. aka MR.D

Personally, I've never understood why people say 'We'll get married in a few years'. Why? I understand if there are financial constraints but if you intend to get married what difference does it make to do it tomorrow or in 5 years?


Unless, you want to wait and see if she's the right one for you. In which case, you shouldn't have agreed to marry her 'at an undefined time in the future.'

OneOfThem

She may just be excited by the idea, and so finds herself wondering about rings and services etc, and ends up talking about it.
Either way, just change the subject if it's not something you want to talk about . Make a joke out of it, tell her a watched pot never boils.

Lux23

R.D. aka MR.D wrote: »

Personally, I've never understood why people say 'We'll get married in a few years'. Why? I understand if there are financial constraints but if you intend to get married what difference does it make to do it tomorrow or in 5 years?


Unless, you want to wait and see if she's the right one for you. In which case, you shouldn't have agreed to marry her 'at an undefined time in the future.'

I agree with this. If you want to stay with this girl, then why not at least propose within in the next 12 months? Or is it that you're not really sure? If you don't know at the the three year mark then maybe she's the wrong girl for you.

WheatenBriar

R.D. aka MR.D wrote: »

Personally, I've never understood why people say 'We'll get married in a few years'. Why? I understand if there are financial constraints but if you intend to get married what difference does it make to do it tomorrow or in 5 years?


Unless, you want to wait and see if she's the right one for you. In which case, you shouldn't have agreed to marry her 'at an undefined time in the future.'

+1000000000

strandroad

Her "understanding" is probably different to yours. If you let her know that a marriage is on the table within a few years, she's probably expecting two or max three years timeframe - a proposal within a year as seems to be customary after such hints are dropped, then engagement and planning for another year or two. If your timeframe is so much longer or you're not ready to commit why on earth are you even talking marriage with her?

pookie82

Tired007 wrote: »

Hi all,

I've been with my girlfriend for the past three years. There have been some ups and downs in that time but generally things are very good and we're both happy.

We have an understanding that at some point in the next five years we'll get married. I'm happy with this as I would like to get married in the future but do feel like that I'm not comfortable with being married yet, largely based on my age (mid 20s).

My girlfriend says that she is happy with this but recently has actually not stopped mentioning it with no more than a few days rest here and there. While she denies it, these really do feel like hints and prods to "get a move on". Talking about rings, what the service will be like, how great it will all be and also just the fact that it's going to happen etc. etc.

Honestly, I'm not particularly happy to have these constant prods to do something that I don't want for a few years. It's making me quite uncomfortable and I'm getting very frustrated with this.

It did cross my mind that she's testing to make sure that I haven't changed my mind. But I don't understand why that would need to be assessed with such intense frequency. Additionally she denies this too.

Talking to her has not helped.

Can anyone advise a good way to get my point across that these hints and unwelcome, make me uncomfortable and that I don't want to wish my life away by jumping from milestone to milestone without enjoying and living my life along the way?

So you're with the girl you (presumably) want to marry and spend your future with for 3 years now, but want to drag out marriage until 5 or so more years down the line, because you consider yourself too young to do it now ... do you just have an idea in your head that you're "too young" and that's that? What exactly do you want to do in this youth that can't be done if you're married? What difference does it make if you're SURE you want to be with her and make this commitment to her?

It sounds like unnecessary stalling and the only valid factors for it are a) you're nowhere near being able to afford it yet, or b) you're unsure deep down if she's the woman you want to make your wife.

If it's the former, there's nothing to stop you proposing now but discussing a lengthy engagement in which you guys have a few years to save up for it. Weddings don't just happen overnight you know, if you want a typical Irish shindig it can take up to two years of planning alone and this is AFTER you pop the question.

If it's the latter, you need to have a serious chat with her, because she's expecting a ring soon (as you've both discussed it's what you want) and what you're doing is unfair.

It's not like you want to break up and play the field before committing to her, is it? So what on earth is this pre-defined wait for?

Neyite

Is she in her mid-twenties too, OP?

You do realise that you are asking a lot here if she wants kids. You want
her to wait for about 5 years, before you make a public promise to commit to her, until she's around age 30 to marry. So you really are asking her to trust that you mean what you say, because if you change your mind at that stage and decide you don't want to marry her, you've basically wasted any chance she has of finding a life partner to have kids with. Its a big gamble for her, so tbh, getting engaged to reinforce your promise of commitment might reassure her that you do want to marry her at some point, and that she isn't wasting her time on you.

Your 5-year plan seems a bit silly to gamble a relationship on - to plan a typical wedding can take two or more years of planning, so you'd need to be getting engaged in the next couple of years anyway, so for the sake of a couple of years, is it worth the potential damage it would do to your relationship?

Here is a question to consider, which might help. If she was ready to walk out the door to find a partner who is willing to get engaged and marry in the next few years, because you wont, would you change your mind?

Dark Phoenix

Why not get engaged and agree to have a long engagement and give yourselves X years to plan and save for a wedding?

Seems a bit one sided to want to hold all the cards OP. You have dangled it in front of her by saying 'we will get married in next five years' - why five years? Surely the decision that you want to get married would be the point at which you would propose? I mean if its definately we will get married in X years then why not make that definite with a proposal?

Shouldnt this be a joint decision? Is she just meant to sit around, not mention it and wait for you to decide when you would like to propose and when you should and will get married?

What if ye get married and she says 'oh we will have kids in the next five years' and then refuses to agree to start trying and gets annoyed when you want to talk about it or to agree specifics and she just expects you to shut up and wait for her to decide for the two of you - how would you feel then? because thats what you are doing at the moment re marraige

meeeeh

R.D. aka MR.D wrote: »

Personally, I've never understood why people say 'We'll get married in a few years'. Why? I understand if there are financial constraints but if you intend to get married what difference does it make to do it tomorrow or in 5 years?


Unless, you want to wait and see if she's the right one for you. In which case, you shouldn't have agreed to marry her 'at an undefined time in the future.'

I am possibly not the right person to advise because having to get married is more a hindrance for me than a desire but I would find it extremely tedious to have to listen about wedding planning even before being engaged.

OP, I suspect getting married for you means settling down, getting a mortgage and start thinking of kids. Marriage doesn't need to be about that. You can just as happily continue your old life. I am lucky to be with a partner who is happy to be engaged to me for the last nine years without annoying me about the wedding stuff. But we are on the same page about everything and your girlfriend and you are not. I think you need to have a honest conversation with your gf about why you are not comfortable getting married yet , what are your other plans, how big of a wedding you want and so on... But I don't think you are unreasonable for not wanting to plan and have a wedding in mid twenties.

osarusan

Neyite wrote: »

You do realise that you are asking a lot here if she wants kids. You want
her to wait for about 5 years, before you make a public promise to commit to her, until she's around age 30 to marry. So you really are asking her to trust that you mean what you say, because if you change your mind at that stage and decide you don't want to marry her, you've basically wasted any chance she has of finding a life partner to have kids with. Its a big gamble for her, so tbh, getting engaged to reinforce your promise of commitment might reassure her that you do want to marry her at some point, and that she isn't wasting her time on you.

I think this is an exaggeration. If they break up when she's 30, she has not by any means 'wasted any chance she has of finding a life partner to have kids with.'

That's not to say that time hasn't passed (I'm not sure it is fair to describe it as wasted), but she still would have time to have children.

OP, are you fully committed to marrying her in the future? One poster wondered if the wait of up to 5 years was a period for you to find out if that really is what you want. Would you say there is any truth to that?

Or even if there isn't any truth to that - do you think that it is what your partner feels about the wait (despite the denials)?

You asked for a way to get your point across - perhaps you already have, and her 'constant pressure' is a way of letting you know she's not in full agreement.

I disagreed with part of Neyite's post, but I agree with her point at the end - if it becomes a case of her just not being content to wait as long as you are content to wait - what happens then?

I don't think anybody should get married until they are sure it is the right thing for them to do. You seem to want to wait only because of your young age. Can you explain why that is a problem? Is it anything more defined than 'it's too young to get married'?

pookie82

osarusan wrote: »

I think this is an exaggeration. If they break up when she's 30, she has not by any means 'wasted any chance she has of finding a life partner to have kids with.'

It all depends very much on how large a family she wants to have and how quickly she could meet someone else who she wants to marry and who wants to marry her.
If it's one or two kids it might still be possible to start again at 30.

What if she envisages 3 or 4?

Let's break it down...

They break up when she's 30. She'll probably spend at least 6 months licking her wounds and repairing herself before even thinking about dating anyone else.

Let's say she starts dating when she's almost 31 ... it could take another year or two before she meets someone she has any intention of settling down with or being a potential father to her children.

So she's 33 now and she's met someone ... but it'll take time to see how that goes, they should probably live together and trial that for a while before getting engaged ... they're together at least a year before they live together - she's now 34. We'll say another year to 18 months has passed before they realise the living situation is going well and he proposes. She's now 35 and a half.

They wait another year to get married, which, given the practicalities of planning a wedding, would be the minimum ... she's pushing 37 now.
I'd say there's room for one and at the most 2 kids here before she's 40, and that's assuming she'll get pregnant right away each time. Obviously the marriage doesn't have to happen before the kids but perhaps she'd like it to be that way.

This is the extent you have to break it down to, I'm afraid, when hopes for a family are involved. He'd be deeply unfair to keep her faffing around if there's even the tiniest chance he's unsure about his verbal commitment to her.

Best case scenario things happen a lot faster than outlined above, worst case scenario they don't happen that fast, or at all...

osarusan

Sure...and maybe she is 24 and only wants a couple of kids....we just don't know. They could break up in 4 years and she could be in a new relationship within 18 months.

You are right - 'it all depends' - and your 'worst-case' scenario above is only one of many.

We don't know her age, we don't know how many kids she wants (it wasn't mentioned as one of the 'constant prods').

So it isn't fair to say that he will have 'wasted any chance she has of finding a life partner to have kids with'.

We just don't know.

meeeeh

This calculation is great btw but it actually takes in consideration more time to get married than some here expect OP should have. They are mid twenties and together three years. If they went to third level education they are possibly just out of college and at the beginning of their careers. I do think they need to talk properly but I can't see what is wrong with not wanting to get married in twenties.

mud

I can see both sides of the story here, mostly because I have recently witnessed a somewhat similar incident within my group of friends.

I was having a night in with some friends including a boy/girl couple who had been going out for 3 or 4 years. They had never discussed marriage but had kids together. She started talking about her ideal wedding day, dress, flowers, decorations, desserts etc. Now, personally I thought she was banging on a bit but only because no-one else could talk while she was speaking as it was only a small get together. Her partner was getting visibly stressed and tried to change the subject. She didn't take the hint and started going on about what she didn't want on her wedding day!

It ended up that they had a major spat soon after that night and split up. I spoke to both of them afterwards. She was adamant that she was only talking in general and wasn't looking for a ring or a promise or anything. She just wanted to talk about her ideal day. I said how it must have sounded to her partner sitting in a room of her friends listening to her going on about a mythical day that is not guaranteed for everybody! She said she understood how he might have felt pressure but that had not been her intention ergo he was unjustified.

I talked to him and he said that he just couldn't listen to her going on anymore and it wasn't just about the wedding talk that night and other nights but just in general that he knew he didn't want to make her his wife and they are both happier in themselves since the break up but parenting their children has become a source of discontent.

OP personally, I think go with your instinct but talk it out with your partner. Maybe she was genuinely talking about weddings in general and not hinting about yours? Totally agree with the poster who asked what difference being married would make if you do genuinely want to marry her anyway. Being married is just about the two of you. You don't have to immediately take on a mortgage and other debt. You can do anything you want really, as long as both of you are on the same page with life.

Best of luck. Hope you can at least talk this out honestly and openly.

athtrasna

If she wants to be engaged, why doesn't she propose? This is the 21st century. After that it would be up to the OP to decide for once and for all if he actually wants to marry her.

animaal

I'd agree - the OP (and presumably his girlfriend) is in his mid 20s. Three years is not a hugely long time for a relationship. He's not responsible for anybody being lonely and childless in their late 30s.

It might have been better to avoid setting expectations if he wasn't sure about the future though.

Also, unless I'm reading too much into it:
"We have an understanding that at some point in the next five years we'll get married".

If this wording reflexts her understanding, then 5 years is the maximum? I.e. a marriage could be on the cards far sooner? If that's the case, then of course she's going to be looking to find out what the story is.

Augme

If your partner main interest is simply finding someone to gives her a wedding, babies and a house then I'd seriously reconsider marrying this girl. That doesn't exactly sound like true love if her main priorities is simply finding someone to give her all of these things rather than finding someone she loves.

Neyite

Osararun, I'm the first to admit that my perception of fertility is based on my own experience - I was 33/34 when we started trying for a family, I'm 40 and on the fertility merry-go-round again, probably undergo more intensive and expensive and physically gruelling treatment and tbh, anyone I've spoken to who has done it says so.

I'm a long time poster on the infertility threads, have made real life friends there, and heard many different stories of fertility difficulties - and on the flip side of that anecdotes where women have babies easily well into their forties. But it's a gamble, and there are high stakes involved. You are right in one sense that he hasn't fully wasted her chances, but I know lots of single women in their early thirties who DO feel their chance for a family has slipped away.

Regardless of whether or not she would meet someone, its an important age bracket where people deserve to fully know where they stand - I get the feeling that the OP isn't fully sure of his partner being his life partner, hence the stalling and hesitation, but is happy to coast with her until he decides.

If the OP does not want to have a family until he is much older, all the more power to him. But if his girlfriend wants to get the ball rolling now, and have the luxury of time on her side in terms of family planning, she has the right to decide that too.

osarusan

Yeah, I'd agree with basically all that.

I've no problem with her wanting kids, lots of them, and starting early - but that needs to be something that she makes the OP aware of. It doesn't sound like that's the case at this stage (that he's aware of it), as it isn't one of the 'constant prods.'

Certainly, she deserves to know where she stands (as does he) and I understand that the 'let's wait until we're older' line might be tiresome if there's nothing behind it other than 'I feel too young to get married.'

I was wondering the same thing about the OP stalling until he feels certain but meanwhile assuring his partner that there is nothing to worry about - which is a really horrible thing to do, but we obviously can't be sure he's doing that and we shouldn't assume that he is stringing her along - this is why I'm not sure it is right to say he is wasting her chances of finding a partner and having kids later on.

It's quite possible that the OP is stalling because he's unsure, and it's quite possible that while his partner is hinting at weddings, actually she really wants to have kids soon, and they both need to know where they stand.

pookie82

Augme wrote: »

If your partner main interest is simply finding someone to gives her a wedding, babies and a house then I'd seriously reconsider marrying this girl. That doesn't exactly sound like true love if her main priorities is simply finding someone to give her all of these things rather than finding someone she loves.

I think this is unfair. Nowhere was it implied that that's ALL she wanted him "for".

To be honest it would be crazy for any woman NOT to sit down and really think out what she wants to be (wife, mother, etc.) and by what time ...

If you blindly go through life and never consider it you could end up 45 and childless, looking at each other across the room thinking "should we maybe have...?"

There has been quite a trend amongst my own group of friends of the women in the relationships having to be the ones who sit down and break down the reality to their partners, who would otherwise have been happy to drift along regardless of the ticking clock and "get married sometime whenever". It's not something a lot of men tend to consider in great depth until it's really laid bare to them. I might add that in these cases marriage and kids have since happened and both parties seem delighted for it to be so ... but if it was left solely up to the man they'd probably have been another 5 years or so getting around to it. Time is not a luxury a woman who wants a family has after a certain point.

In all cases these men never argued that marriage wasn't what they wanted ... they just genuinely had no concept of why it was better sooner rather than later.

Wanting a family, a marriage and a home does not mean you are "using" someone to get it. She's clearly invested, probably head over heels in love with him, and wants all of those things alongside that. Who can blame her for that?

ash23

I would think that if you've both agreed to marry within the next 5 years then her talking about the day isn't really that out of line. In her own head she's thinking that her wedding day will be within 5 years. So maybe hoping for a proposal within the next year (Christmas, her birthday etc) so that you can both start saving and planning for the day itself.

Obviously if she thinks all this is happening within 5 years, then she is getting excited and starting to think about what she wants. And to be honest, it seems a bit mad that you'd agree to marry someone, set a time frame but not count that as being the same as a proposal?

You are engaged for all intents and purposes, albeit with a long engagement and I don't really understand why you woudn't just pop the question and agree on a date within the 5 years to start aiming and planning for.

If you didn't really think you were going to marry her within the five years and said it to placate her, then that was a bit unfair really.

Flippyfloppy

OP you say you have an understanding that you will both get married sometime within the next five years or so. I don't see what the problem is then with your gf talking about it seeing as you're both apparently on the same page regarding marriage.

It seems to me that you were happy to agree to it without a ring but as soon as your gf started talking about it, therefore making it a reality, you've begun to feel pressurized and feel that this is not something that you really want.

It would be fairer to break up if that's the case. You're both adults and both deserve to know where you stand at this stage in life.

OneOfThem

They could break up at 30 if they get married tomorrow. Is he to start having kids sooner than he wants too incase they break up after they get married but before she gets pregnant because she might miss out otherwise? He doesn't owe her babies on demand. He's her partner not a sperm donor. Marriage is no guarantee of them either.

LadyFenghuang

She sounds obsessive in a very very unhealthy way. I have to be honest i would find it scary.

It's odd to keep mentioning or talking about any one topic so intently.

DeltaWhite

There's women out there who honestly believe their wedding day is the most important day of their lives. They probably grow up from little girls thinking that and it could be a huge deal to OP's OH. I don't think she sounds obsessive at all. She sounds like she's excited. What should the OP do? Ban her from talking about one of the biggest days of her life for the next 5 years?

Sounds more like to me the OP is reconsidering. If it's wrecking your head that much OP then why don't you tell her to stop talking about it? I don't think she will have the best reaction but if it's annoying you that much you don't really have another choice.

meeeeh

OneOfThem wrote: »

They could break up at 30 if they get married tomorrow. Is he to start having kids sooner than he wants too incase they break up after they get married but before she gets pregnant because she might miss out otherwise? He doesn't owe her babies on demand. He's her partner not a sperm donor. Marriage is no guarantee of them either.

I agree but in fairness she is not even asking that.

I must say I would find a bit scary if my partner wanted to discuss an event that is years away every third day. It's like getting married is a sole purpose in life. I just don't get this whole, make up your mind, get engaged, you are stringing her along, she will be childless and single at 35... All of that or none of that might happen and it is impossible to judge from opening post.

pookie82

meeeeh wrote: »

I agree but in fairness she is not even asking that.

I must say I would find a bit scary if my partner wanted to discuss an event that is years away every third day. It's like getting married is a sole purpose in life. I just don't get this whole, make up your mind, get engaged, you are stringing her along, she will be childless and single at 35... All of that or none of that might happen and it is impossible to judge from opening post.

Perhaps he should just say to her "look, I'm uncomfortable with you talking so frequently about a day like that when I haven't even proposed yet.

You know I want to marry you, but I haven't asked yet, and don't intend to for a couple of years. Why don't you wait until I have asked to get so excited?"

That's about all he can do, and if she does actually have a problem with his timeline, she'll make it apparent very quickly.

LegacyUser

My partner got engaged mid-twenties because of slight pressure from her and her family, they were together since they were teenagers and had a house and it seemed like the right thing to do. They were very happy at the time. They got married shortly after and separated within a few years. It was an amicable split, for them they were just too young and grew apart as they grew up, but I think both felt like they wasted several years trying to make it work just because they were married.

Just my tuppence worth, every situation is different. Just don't be pressured into something you don't want to do OP. But I agree with many other posters.. if you don't want to marry her now are you sure you will want to marry her in 5 years' time? If you're not, let her go so you can both find people you do want to marry.

meeeeh

@pookie82
Absolutely I agree. Although I think he should also a
explain his reasons. If he wants to focus on career or to drink away money instead of saving it for wedding, they are all perfectly valid reasons. I just think I can understand why someone wouldn't want to talk about wedding and be still in a committed and happy relationship.

OneOfThem

meeeeh wrote: »

I agree but in fairness she is not even asking that.

I must say I would find a bit scary if my partner wanted to discuss an event that is years away every third day. It's like getting married is a sole purpose in life. I just don't get this whole, make up your mind, get engaged, you are stringing her along, she will be childless and single at 35... All of that or none of that might happen and it is impossible to judge from opening post.

Oh absolutely, I wasnt suggesting she was. Like I said, just sounds to me like someone that's excited about something. She's not talking about baby stuff, or even marriage stuff, just wedding stuff. It was more in response to the previous string of posts.

strandroad

TBH all that is clear from the opening post is that OP's girlfriend is very keen on marriage and he is not (yet) - but he did create an impression that marriage is on the cards so with her attitude she is getting excited and under the circumstances it's hard to blame her. What kind of message "I'd like to marry you one day but it's not a proposal" is? It's head wrecking.

Stop messing OP and row back on the marriage "understanding", make it clear to her that you haven't made up your mind yet and she should not expect anything marriage related before 30.
She may accept it, she may leave you or she may propose to you... but if you keep creating false impressions and then holding her reaction against her you're doomed anyway.

Augme

pookie82 wrote: »

I think this is unfair. Nowhere was it implied that that's ALL she wanted him "for".

To be honest it would be crazy for any woman NOT to sit down and really think out what she wants to be (wife, mother, etc.) and by what time ...

If you blindly go through life and never consider it you could end up 45 and childless, looking at each other across the room thinking "should we maybe have...?"

There has been quite a trend amongst my own group of friends of the women in the relationships having to be the ones who sit down and break down the reality to their partners, who would otherwise have been happy to drift along regardless of the ticking clock and "get married sometime whenever". It's not something a lot of men tend to consider in great depth until it's really laid bare to them. I might add that in these cases marriage and kids have since happened and both parties seem delighted for it to be so ... but if it was left solely up to the man they'd probably have been another 5 years or so getting around to it. Time is not a luxury a woman who wants a family has after a certain point.

In all cases these men never argued that marriage wasn't what they wanted ... they just genuinely had no concept of why it was better sooner rather than later.

Wanting a family, a marriage and a home does not mean you are "using" someone to get it. She's clearly invested, probably head over heels in love with him, and wants all of those things alongside that. Who can blame her for that?

People are implying that it's important to make a decision now so she has the choice to leave him if he decides he doesn't want to have kids or get married in the next 5 years. To me then it means that she clearly values marriage and kids more than she does her partner.

If a woman wants to sit down and decide what she wants in life that is perfectly acceptable and should be done. At least then she can tell potential partners that she values kids/marriage as a higher priority than the partner.

I'm not sure why you are putting the word "using" in quotes, I never used that word anyway. I simply said that if someone values babies and a marriage over their partners then that's not the kind of relationship or partner I would want.

PinkLemonade

Augme wrote: »

People are implying that it's important to make a decision now so she has the choice to leave him if he decides he doesn't want to have kids or get married in the next 5 years. To me then it means that she clearly values marriage and kids more than she does her partner.

If a woman wants to sit down and decide what she wants in life that is perfectly acceptable and should be done. At least then she can tell potential partners that she values kids/marriage as a higher priority than the partner.

I'm not sure why you are putting the word "using" in quotes, I never used that word anyway. I simply said that if someone values babies and a marriage over their partners then that's not the kind of relationship or partner I would want.

Marriage and kid's are make or break topics in most relationships, I wouldn't compromise my personal views on either of these regardless of how much I loved my partner.

pookie82

Augme wrote: »

People are implying that it's important to make a decision now so she has the choice to leave him if he decides he doesn't want to have kids or get married in the next 5 years. To me then it means that she clearly values marriage and kids more than she does her partner.

If a woman wants to sit down and decide what she wants in life that is perfectly acceptable and should be done. At least then she can tell potential partners that she values kids/marriage as a higher priority than the partner.

I'm not sure why you are putting the word "using" in quotes, I never used that word anyway. I simply said that if someone values babies and a marriage over their partners then that's not the kind of relationship or partner I would want.

Again, I think this is unfair.

There have been countless threads on this forum based around the classic problem of "I want kids and he doesn't, what will I do?" or vice verse, and the advice is almost always that it won't work unless someone compromises, and if there's no middle ground, to leave.

No one says "you clearly don't love him, if you loved him you'd stay no matter what".

That's because love doesn't conquer all. It's not enough for most people to love someone and give up on their dream of a family because of it. I've seen first hand the way relationships break down in a gut wrenching manner because love is there, but without wanting the same fundamental things from life, it just won't work out long term. It's not fair to assume that that means the love was never valid in the first place, or not valid enough.

You're setting yourself up for a massive sacrifice if you put the love of another person above a very natural and primal instinct to procreate, one that could lead to a serious amount of regret, resentment and relationship grief down the line.

Anyway this is all a "by the way" until we know for sure having a family soon is even a factor here, though I suspect it might be.

LegacyUser

Hi all,

Thank you all for your advise today. I think that everyone who has said that we're not communicating well and are maybe wanting different things were totally right. So I decided to talk to her this evening when she got back from work to try and see if I could get us back on the same page.

In short, we really do want different things. The most jarring of these is that she wants to be married and to have at least one kid by the time she's 30. Maybe even more than that. Which is not what I thought we had agreed to at all. I really thought that kids were going to be very far in the future for us (if ever) but she expects that they'll happen soon. I've explained that I don't imagine that suiting us because we both love travelling so much (we get away at least twice a year) and I can't imagine it being possible or even fun to bring children to Thailand, Vietnam etc.

It really looks like we both want very different things for the near future. She thinks that she'll be happy with staying in Dublin, working part-time when the children are a little older and pretty much just settling down really very soon. And while I never thought that I'd still be free to do whatever I wanted forever, I really didn't see myself getting confined to the 9 to 5 quite so young.

It's been a particularly upsetting evening for both of us actually. And we're not really sure where we stand anymore. I've suggested that we just put a pin in it for the time being and revisit it soon when we've gotten over the shock. She's agreed to this.

Thank you everyone again for all your help today.

Augme

pookie82 wrote: »

Again, I think this is unfair.

There have been countless threads on this forum based around the classic problem of "I want kids and he doesn't, what will I do?" or vice verse, and the advice is almost always that it won't work unless someone compromises, and if there's no middle ground, to leave.

No one says "you clearly don't love him, if you loved him you'd stay no matter what".

You can claim it's unfair as much as you like but that doesn't mean it isn't true. Again I never once said that means she doesn't love her partner.

If someone is willing to leave their partner because he doesn't want marriage/kids then that means that the person values marriage and kids over their partner. I'm not sure how you can argue that isn't the case.

pookie82 wrote: »

That's because love doesn't conquer all. It's not enough for most people to love someone and give up on their dream of a family because of it. I've seen first hand the way relationships break down in a gut wrenching manner because love is there, but without wanting the same fundamental things from life, it just won't work out long term. It's not fair to assume that that means the love was never valid in the first place, or not valid enough.

You're setting yourself up for a massive sacrifice if you put the love of another person above a very natural and primal instinct to procreate, one that could lead to a serious amount of regret, resentment and relationship grief down the line.

Anyway this is all a "by the way" until we know for sure having a family soon is even a factor here, though I suspect it might be.

I never claimed it meant their love wasn't valid. What I claimed was that the partner has bigger/more love for having a baby and marriage than they do for their partner. Now some people might be happy to be 3rd place behind those two things.

cactusgal

I'm pretty sure that marriage and babies, for people that are in love with their partner, indicates a very strong desire to share the rest of their life with said partner. Which is a good thing, if you love each other.

Op never said he was against marriage in general.

(OP, for what it's worth, I also think it's dumb to adhere to a long and arbitrary timeline of five years. Get engaged if she's the one, or tell her it's off the table, but don't give timelines of that length unless it's financially motivated bc you are saving for the wedding of the century, or want to purchase a house before you marry).

Merkin

Tired007 wrote: »

Hi all,

Thank you all for your advise today. I think that everyone who has said that we're not communicating well and are maybe wanting different things were totally right. So I decided to talk to her this evening when she got back from work to try and see if I could get us back on the same page.

In short, we really do want different things. The most jarring of these is that she wants to be married and to have at least one kid by the time she's 30. Maybe even more than that. Which is not what I thought we had agreed to at all. I really thought that kids were going to be very far in the future for us (if ever) but she expects that they'll happen soon. I've explained that I don't imagine that suiting us because we both love travelling so much (we get away at least twice a year) and I can't imagine it being possible or even fun to bring children to Thailand, Vietnam etc.

It really looks like we both want very different things for the near future. She thinks that she'll be happy with staying in Dublin, working part-time when the children are a little older and pretty much just settling down really very soon. And while I never thought that I'd still be free to do whatever I wanted forever, I really didn't see myself getting confined to the 9 to 5 quite so young.

It's been a particularly upsetting evening for both of us actually. And we're not really sure where we stand anymore. I've suggested that we just put a pin in it for the time being and revisit it soon when we've gotten over the shock. She's agreed to this.

Thank you everyone again for all your help today.

Good, I'm glad you have spoken to each other and I feel sorry for both of you because it doesn't look like this is going to work out.

I've been in your situation and was proposed to but refused to get engaged to a LTR boyfriend at 25. In retrospect I should have taken the pain and ended it then but it took me another eighteen months to do so. Having been there, don't drag the arse out of it when you clearly want very different things at totally different times. I know it's painful but don't waste both your respective times if no compromise can be reached.

OP I think you need to honestly examine the reasons why you want to put off marriage for the next five years - is it because you don't want to get married yet or is it because you're not totally sure your girlfriend is the person you want to settle down with? If its the former, how do you know you'll feel differently in a few years?

I don't think your girlfriend is being unreasonable wanting to be married and starting a family at around 30, especially if this is still a few years away and you've already been together three years. Ultimately you need to decide what's more important to you - having the freedom to travel well into your thirties or building a life with the woman you love (assuming you do love her). If you know that you don't want to settle down with her in the next few years then you have to let her go, sooner rather than later.

I say this as someone who spent seven years with a man who always told me we'd get married 'in a few years' and assured me that he could only see his future with me, etc, etc. But the years passed and he never got comfortable with marriage (maybe he thought he would as he got older, I really don't know) and in the end he dumped me at 31 because he was afraid to commit. Whether he did it intentionally or not, I feel like he led me on for years and wasted the best years of my life. I wish he had properly thought about what he wanted in his future long before he actually did, and let me go and find someone who was right for me. For the sake of yourself and your girlfriend you need to figure out what you want, and don't keep her hanging onto something if it's not going to happen.

LegacyUser

R.D. aka MR.D wrote: »

Personally, I've never understood why people say 'We'll get married in a few years'. Why? I understand if there are financial constraints but if you intend to get married what difference does it make to do it tomorrow or in 5 years?


Unless, you want to wait and see if she's the right one for you. In which case, you shouldn't have agreed to marry her 'at an undefined time in the future.'

I can completely get why someone would say wait a few years, Ive been in relationships before that have exceeded three years and I felt at the time in my early/mid twenties that I could see myself marrying this person, but I also knew that despite that I would be a different person in another three years approaching late twenties, plus there were a few things I had still planned to do before tying the knot. It didnt mean I loved the person any less but I believe you have to love yourself and do whats best for yourself before you can give your best fully to anyone else. I would never have wanted a situation where I married early and quite young to only feel four years later at 28 that I hadn't fufilled everything I wanted to do in life. it wouldnt be fair to my partner or me.

I think the OP is being very reasonable here, many people rush into it. I would however be honest with her and say this

FizzleSticks

This post has been deleted.

pookie82

Tired007 wrote: »

In short, we really do want different things. The most jarring of these is that she wants to be married and to have at least one kid by the time she's 30. Maybe even more than that. Which is not what I thought we had agreed to at all. I really thought that kids were going to be very far in the future for us (if ever) but she expects that they'll happen soon.

I think I hit on this point earlier when I said this is something a lot of men think, and it's simply not logical. I'm not blaming you - many young men think the same way. But really, in your mid 20s, if you're thinking kids are "very far in the future" (5-10 years?) then you should be aware that you're probably going to have to marry someone a lot younger than you. It doesn't sound like she is?

There's a lot of hype in the media at the moment around warning/reminding women of their fertility limits and encouraging them to have kids in their 20s. I'm not sure why all the pressure is focused on women-only. This is really something MEN need to get their heads around too.

For some reason many blithely assume that kids are something you can put off until you're pushing 40.

I think it's smart to let the shock settle before you come to any ground breaking decisions, but just bear in mind that unless you can come around to her way of thinking on this, it would be cruelty not to let her go.

CaraMay

So you are willing to lose her because you might, in the future, take a notion to travel to Thailand or Vietnam????

It just baffles me why the youth of today as willing to give up good relationships for reasons like this. You seem to have no idea how hard it is to find someone you love and who loves you. It's really really hard!

You've gotten cold feet and you need to tell her. She seems to want a family soon and that's her right. If you are happier heading off on holidays then you need to tell her so she can move on and meet someone else.

pookie82

CaraMay wrote: »

So you are willing to lose her because you might, in the future, take a notion to travel to Thailand or Vietnam????

It just baffles me why the youth of today as willing to give up good relationships for reasons like this. You seem to have no idea how hard it is to find someone you love and who loves you. It's really really hard!

You've gotten cold feet and you need to tell her. She seems to want a family soon and that's her right. If you are happier heading off on holidays then you need to tell her so she can move on and meet someone else.

This is a good point well made, in that you may be giving up a relationship that could last for life for the sake of a few holidays or just the freedom to take them if you please.

That said, though, the OP is as entitled to his priorities as she is. Some people don't have a yearning for kids and a family and would prioritise seeing the world and making the most out of their lives in that regard. I defended someone's right to leave a relationship above if they wanted kids and their partner didn't - a person who wants freedom over settling down has as much of a right to leave. It's all about priorities.

Sounds like you'll have to take a chance, OP, on being free to holiday for the rest of your 20s and hoping that when you do (if ever) have a desire to settle down, the right woman will come along.

One thing I would ask of you for her sake - if you do decide to break up, it will be doubly hard if you're both still in love, and the relationship has only broken down because of differing desires for the future. Don't string her along with "maybes", don't keep in touch like the best friends you always were - if you do break up over this, really let her go.

meeeeh

CaraMay wrote: »

So you are willing to lose her because you might, in the future, take a notion to travel to Thailand or Vietnam????

It just baffles me why the youth of today as willing to give up good relationships for reasons like this. You seem to have no idea how hard it is to find someone you love and who loves you. It's really really hard!

You've gotten cold feet and you need to tell her. She seems to want a family soon and that's her right. If you are happier heading off on holidays then you need to tell her so she can move on and meet someone else.

Oh come on, who gets married nowadays in mid-twenties?I think average age for first kid is 31 so OP far from an exception.

You are expecting someone to get married and have kids before they are ready just to keep a relationship going. A relationship break up has lot less serious consequences than people who are not ready having kids.

CaraMay

meeeeh wrote: »

Oh come on, who gets married nowadays in mid-twenties?I think average age for first kid is 31 so OP far from an exception.

You are expecting someone to get married and have kids before they are ready just to keep a relationship going. A relationship break up has lot less serious consequences than people who are not ready having kids.

Plenty get married mid 20's... They are already mid 20's so would probably be closer to late 20's getting married and then first child by 31. Just like everyone else

OneOfThem

CaraMay wrote: »

Plenty get married mid 20's... They are already mid 20's so would probably be closer to late 20's getting married and then first child by 31. Just like everyone else

Wouldn't really be like everyone else though. Average age for a bride is 32.5 in ireland. Average age for groom is 34.7.

pookie82

It's not about what's average any longer, it's about her express wish (which we now know of) to be married with at least one child before 30.

Doesn't really matter what other people are or aren't doing, that's what she wants. It's not unreasonable. Neither is it unreasonable for him to say no, but I think he has (or had) the blinkers on with regard to how long a woman in her mid 20s who wants a family will wait around for while he travels and whatnot.

I can't understand seeing again and again men get some sort of shock when this reality of a time frame for a family is pointed out to them.

CaraMay

OneOfThem wrote: »

Wouldn't really be like everyone else though. Average age for a bride is 32.5 in ireland. Average age for groom is 34.7.

Yeah 'average' age

Dark Phoenix

OP do you want to get married and have kids? It seems to be a can you keep wanting to kick down the road and eventually that 5 years or whatever will run out.

No one has to do these things and its okay not to want it and its okay to have other priorities in life and its okay to realise you dont want what your partner wants.

I have never ever wanted kids and have no real interest in marraige. Its not an easy thing to admit to when most people do want one if not both of those. However its not something you need to compromise on