Tyson Fury (undisputed world champion!) vs Vladimir SEE MOD WARNING POST#558

Talib Fiasco

megadodge wrote: »

I got the impression on 'Ringside' tonight that Tyson Fury is next up for Vladimir. They had a phone interview with him and Vlad more or less confirmed it.
Anyone else hear any news on it?

Yeah seems to be a definite besides the contract and venue. Word is it'll just be for the WBO belt and not the full wallop.

TheNap

Fury tweeted that it will be held in China

Rough Sleeper

Predictions? I'd go with Klitschko by unanimous decision provided that age doesn't catch up with Wlad, who's 38 and not getting younger.

Talib Fiasco

I'll be lumping the cash on Fury anyway. I don't see him as a great Heavyweight but I think he's probably best suited to beat Wladimir. His size is the main factor...he won't be bullied. He also has the reach advantage. As long as he stays cautious and protects himself from Wlad's power as best as possible he has every chance. I'd love to see him win, the division badly needs more belt holders in there to make it competitive again and motivate lads to step up. In fairness, must be a daunting task for most to work their way towards fighting Wlad and Wlad alone.

sxt

Talib Fiasco wrote: »

I'll be lumping the cash on Fury anyway. I don't see him as a great Heavyweight but I think he's probably best suited to beat Wladimir. His size is the main factor...he won't be bullied. He also has the reach advantage. As long as he stays cautious and protects himself from Wlad's power as best as possible he has every chance. I'd love to see him win, the division badly needs more belt holders in there to make it competitive again and motivate lads to step up. In fairness, must be a daunting task for most to work their way towards fighting Wlad and Wlad alone.

I think fury is alot better than people give him credit for. I think he has a bit of the x factor quality. I think he sets up nicely for vlad though.

walshb

Wlad losing to Fury would really be a legacy killer.....

Fury has all the physical tools, but his lack of explosiveness won't allow him to beat Wlad.

jockland

Fury was released from prison in Scotland just a few days ago for contempt of court. He was up on a speeding charge, doing 90mph with his 3 kids in the car recently. He failed to appear so was arrested and held in custody. He was fined £400 and given a two month driving ban.

He should do pretty well against Klitschko as long as he stops showboating and takes it seriously. They're saying it will take place in October.

Littlehorny

Easy fight for Klitchko in my opinion, Fury has no advantage in any department. Not in Wlad league, will be lucky to last till round 8.

Frank Bullitt

Wlad isn't showing any real signs of age, both himself and his brother (being the freaks of nature that they are) are smart men with their bodies, their sports science qualifications obviously pay off for them.

I give this to Wlad, solid nights work and a UD, possibly an early stoppage maybe.

Fury is better than he has shown I think, but he also hasn't gone up against an opponent like Wlad.

Mantis Toboggan

Definitely a fascinating fight and one I'm looking forward to. The build up to it alone should be hilarious. Delighted for Fury to be getting this chance, he deserves it after being messed about by Haye. Would be great to have an Irish/English world champion. Would definitely shake up the decision. Fury most definitely has a chance here.

boxer.fan

It will be interesting to see Wlad in with someone bigger than him. Fury won't lay down easy that is for sure. Steve Cunningham put him on his ass but he recovered well.

I can't remember if Wlad has fought many southpaw's or how he has got on against them. Pulev was a big tough boxer with significant amateur experience and Wlad used him as a punchbag, he can unleash the bombs when he wants to, which is probably what he will need to do against Fury who really shouldn't be jabbed & bullied for twelve rounds.

Mantis Toboggan

Confirmed for October 24th in Germany. Can't wait!

Talib Fiasco

Fury has been going mental on twitter all day

Got to say the klitschko,s & there peeps are Liars & cheats say 1 thing & mean another, we had a deal & they Reneged on it! Con artists!!!!!

The GYPSYKING will come out of this fight as the best heavyweight on the planet,#nuffsaid

@klitschko it don't matter where this fight is, Ukraine, Deutschland ,Japan, it will be the same outcome u getting KTFO, #&THENEW'

later on to Wilder

@BronzeBomber klitschko fight is a done deal, lets win our next fights & make history togeather, east vs west, then west vs west, boooooooom

to which Wilder replied:

You know I'm ready for you whenever... Good luck in your fight bro... you'll need it.

then later on again:

I promise I won't do a @mrdavidhaye & **** my self������ ill ko this super champ, i dont takl unless i can back it up,

I admire his arrogance and sheer lack of giving a f*ck about anything or anyone. All being said, I hope to God he beats Klitschko, and hammers him at that

djhaxman

Talib Fiasco wrote: »

I admire his arrogance and sheer lack of giving a f*ck about anything or anyone. All being said, I hope to God he beats Klitschko, and hammers him at that

I'm the total opposite. I think he's an overrated loudmouth and hope Klitschko gives him a lesson he'll never forget.

Mantis Toboggan

djhaxman wrote: »

I'm the total opposite. I think he's an overrated loudmouth and hope Klitschko gives him a lesson he'll never forget.

Haters gotta hate I suppose!

Would be amazing to have an English/irish world champion.

Fury best priced 4/1

djhaxman

Buddy Holly wrote: »

Haters gotta hate I suppose!

Would be amazing to have an English/irish world champion.

Fury best priced 4/1

Hate is a very strong word. I don't even know the fella. It just seems to me that someone who got floored by Steve Cunningham will struggle against a very hard hitting heavyweight who has all the experience in the world.

Shows the state the heavyweight division is in I suppose.

Frank Bullitt

I see this as an easy enough nights work for Wlad. He has shown no signs of going off the boil and Fury hasn't been against anyone like him either.

It will also be a lacklustre enough affair, effective boxing from the Wlad and a frustrated Fury.

davegrohl48

djhaxman wrote: »

I'm the total opposite. I think he's an overrated loudmouth and hope Klitschko gives him a lesson he'll never forget.

Fury believes his own press most the time. He constantly states he can fight inside or outside. For a guy 6'7" with long arms pretty ridiculous for him to talk about his inside fighting ability. Fury lacks skills, he is still the same guy who uppercut himself in the chin for God sake.

Big Ears

davegrohl48 wrote: »

Fury believes his own press most the time. He constantly states he can fight inside or outside. For a guy 6'7" with long arms pretty ridiculous for him to talk about his inside fighting ability. Fury lacks skills, he is still the same guy who uppercut himself in the chin for God sake.

While there is plenty of legitimate criticisms of Tyson Fury, saying he is the same guy who uppercut himself in the chin, isn't really one of them. He was a novice 20 year old pro at the time.
He's improved dramatically at the time, and while he has defensive flaws, he certainly has offensive ability at both short and long range.

He's the only guy to ever stop Steve Cunningham, and he did it on the inside.
He's also shown a rare ability to switch hit which few Heavyweights have ever really had. Wlad would likely destroy him, but that doesn't mean Fury isn't pretty decent. He's actually a well rounded, highly skilled fighter.

walshb

Gintonious wrote: »

I see this as an easy enough nights work for Wlad. He has shown no signs of going off the boil and Fury hasn't been against anyone like him either.

It will also be a lacklustre enough affair, effective boxing from the Wlad and a frustrated Fury.

If Fury tastes a few Wlad shots and feels that he can take them well then I don't see this being all that easy. Wlad won't have the physical advantages here. It wold take a silly performance from Fury combined with an exceptional performance from Wlad to see Fury lose badly on points.

magma69

The disparity in hand speed is massive here. Can Fury even hurt Wlad if he somehow manages to land? His power is average, for his size it's poor actually. This is going to be a completely one sided fight imo. Wlad is just leagues ahead of everyone else in the division.

magma69

walshb wrote: »

If Fury tastes a few Wlad shots and feels that he can take them well then I don't see this being all that easy. Wlad won't have the physical advantages here. It wold take a silly performance from Fury combined with an exceptional performance from Wlad to see Fury lose badly on points.

Well Fury has been knocked down by cruiserweight Cunningham, the Canadian heavyweight with a KO record of 5 in 17 and badly hurt by Firtha who's a non puncher also.

If Wlad lands that right cross on Fury he's going down, the question is, how conservative will Wlad fight?

jimmii

Should be an interesting fight looking forward to it. I tend to like an underdog victory! Fury is going to be doing some training in Mayo apparently he likes the tranquility and they have some good runs there watch out people of Mayo!

boxer.fan

magma69 wrote: »

If Wlad lands that right cross on Fury he's going down, the question is, how conservative will Wlad fight?

I'd say Wlad will be as conservative as he needs to be to win the rounds. Against Pulev, he had to step up a few gears & force the stoppage, & Pulev is a big fella & has skills as good, if not better than Fury.

Against Povetkin he was happy to spoil & rough is way to a points win because he was let.

magma69

boxer.fan wrote: »

I'd say Wlad will be as conservative as he needs to be to win the rounds. Against Pulev, he had to step up a few gears & force the stoppage, & Pulev is a big fella & has skills as good, if not better than Fury.

Against Povetkin he was happy to spoil & rough is way to a points win because he was let.

Hope the ref pulls him up on his excessive holding. He's been getting away with it for years without reprimand.

davegrohl48

Big Ears wrote: »

While there is plenty of legitimate criticisms of Tyson Fury, saying he is the same guy who uppercut himself in the chin, isn't really one of them. He was a novice 20 year old pro at the time.
He's improved dramatically at the time, and while he has defensive flaws, he certainly has offensive ability at both short and long range.

He's the only guy to ever stop Steve Cunningham, and he did it on the inside.
He's also shown a rare ability to switch hit which few Heavyweights have ever really had. Wlad would likely destroy him, but that doesn't mean Fury isn't pretty decent. He's actually a well rounded, highly skilled fighter.

I haven't seen in any fight that he is a well rounded, highly skilled fighter.
I'v seen a guy 6'7"/6'8" enjoy his reach advantage against fighters all 6'2" or under, opponents without good handspeed or good track records of pushing hard for world titles.
His opposition has been limited and many of them have pushed on into late rounds or points. If he is well rounded where is his ability to with one punch put someone in trouble? Where is his accuracy? Where is the ability to get on top of someone and have the referee step in as the punishment is too much.
There is the touch of Audley Harrison about his useage of his jab. He's in reverse mode afraid to get hit even as he's throwing it. When fighters have come with pressure Fury is in serious reverse mode and relies just like Wlad on excessive holding. I expect Wlad Fury to be like two fencers just prodding and prodding with their left jab.
I don't rate either and consider that both are enjoying the state of heavyweight boxing where there has been no 6'5" Lennox Lewis type who they can't hold and bully.
The Povedkin fight was the most unrefereed sporting contest I'v seen. Povedkin took punishment in the form of holding and leaning the entire fight. At one stage Wlad had him bent back out over the ropes. Happening several times every single round if referred properly where at least the third hold should be a deduction Wlad should have been on 9 pt rounds all through and having to chase the fight. I noticed similar in Furys last fight (pretty sure last fight) non-stop holding as soon as there is any offensive action coming from the other fighter. Which gives any opponent without height and size no chance.

sxt

davegrohl48 wrote: »

I expect Wlad Fury to be like two fencers just prodding and prodding with their left jab.
I don't rate either and consider that both are enjoying the state of heavyweight boxing

You don't rate klitschko who has been a proven world champion for 10 years, but you rate Joshua who has never been world champion...

Frank Bullitt

sxt wrote: »

You don't rate klitschko who has been a proven world champion for 10 years, but you rate Joshua who has never been world champion...

Not rating one of the most dominant fighters of all time, 64 wins, 53 of them by knockout.

Honestly, is this a joke?

Panic E

Delighted about this. A really intriguing matchup potentially. How will Tyson fare?

Klitcko is a class act, Fury is a bit of a class clown. Funtimes ahead can't wait for it.

davegrohl48

Gintonious wrote: »

Not rating one of the most dominant fighters of all time, 64 wins, 53 of them by knockout.

Honestly, is this a joke?

Have a look at the Povedkin and also the Jennings fights all on Youtube. Then seriously tell me Klitcshko is on a par with Lewis. He was not winning at his leisure he was holding as a tactic. His left jab had absolutetly nothing on it. Jennings mainly blocked it all night. When he was hit with it little effect. In total in 12 rounds just a small handful of straight rights were damaging.
Seeing as I believe Joshua is much better than Povedkin n Jennings no it is not a joke.

Panic E

I believe the hype for this fight will be similar or even more than the David Haye fight, but David Haye was a cruiserweight. This guy is a massive guy, tall, a true heavyweight, big mouth and undefeated. It is a real threat, so to say, for the champion, which is me in this case. Many people look forward to see how the champ is going to handle it. Fury’s young. He’s a little bit off in his head, but he is going to come to fight. David Haye pushed me with all his talk and I had fun with it. It was very tense, but it was fun. I think with Tyson Fury, who knows what he will do. I look forward to it. The press conferences will not be boring. But I’ve heard it before and seen it before.

- The good Dr.

Talib Fiasco

davegrohl48 wrote: »

Have a look at the Povedkin and also the Jennings fights all on Youtube. Then seriously tell me Klitcshko is on a par with Lewis. He was not winning at his leisure he was holding as a tactic. His left jab had absolutetly nothing on it. Jennings mainly blocked it all night. When he was hit with it little effect. In total in 12 rounds just a small handful of straight rights were damaging.
Seeing as I believe Joshua is much better than Povedkin n Jennings no it is not a joke.

Povetkin is a world class HW, and albeit it was a very rough fight to watch and the ref had a nightmare, Wlad beat him convincingly. Jennings too is a fantastic fighter with a good chin, and Wlad still beat him. He destroyed Pulev, who was the #1 ranked HW behind him. Absolutely clobbered him...so much so Wlad will probably have 2 fights in the locker since that fight by the time Pulev gets back in the ring. Joshua has done nothing, literally nothing to even be fit to lace Povetkin's shoes atm. There is no logic to saying he is.

walshb

Wlad dominated Povetkin. It was one sided all the way.

davegrohl48

Wlad dominated Povedkin but I believe and I think most agree that the holding and leaning was a huge factor in that. A big part of Povedkin being worn down and tired out was Wlad leaning on him all night. Wlad had Povedkin almost finished in round 7, but still couldn't get him out of there but I credit Povedkins incredible durability for that.
The Jennings fight wasn't anywhere near as convincing. Jennings has excellent evasive skills. At one stage making Wlad miss with every punch of a 4-5 punch combination near the ropes. Throughout the night he blocked a huge percentage of Wlads shots on his gloves. He also slipped shots with movement.
Jennings was forced to lunge in with punches but I thought many of them were valid. He was also landing bodyshots when Wlad held him. But none of that was likely to score well with the judges. Wlad was not deducted points for holding until round 10.
Wlad has faced I make it only two fighters who had size, power, were willing to throw powerful shots and were 6'4" upwards. On both occasions Wlad lost.
Ross Purrity - (On the night listed 1.98 m 6'5" and 113kg)
Wlad was not as big and powerful back then but he had much better handspeed and accuracy.
Purrity was more interested in covering up throughout the fight, but a few times each round he was throwing single shots or combinations which had Wlad troubled. Wlad was well able to land shots as Purritys evasive skills were poor. Eventually in rounds 10/11 Purrity gets the stoppage. Wlads jaw looks questionable as there doesn't appear to be a solid clean punch landed more of a combination.
Corrie Sanders - 6'4" - He blocked Wlads jab with his right hand and had the reach to counter with his left. Wlads jaw looks questionable as the shot that puts him in trouble would not have troubled a Hoyfield or Lewis.
The other occasions when Wlad has faced fighters 6'4" upwards none of them were powerful enough to put Wlad in trouble.
- Mariusz Wach - 6'6" - More interested in not being hit. Lacks any powerful shot.
- Tony Thomson -6'5" - 40 years of age and wilted after a few rounds. Was winning the early rounds with compubox stats showing a big advantage in shots landed. Wilted completely, Wlad stopped him.
- Francesco Pianeta - 6'5" - Lacked any powerful shot.
- Pulev - 6'4" - No ability to throw a powerful shot to put Wlad in trouble. His own jaw questionable as the left hook that firstly puts him down was not too powerful.
Wlad has struggled when there have been taller fighters with size and power. I know Wlad is bigger now, but his handspeed has gone down with age. I can't really call the Fury fight. I can make a case for both.
I am aware Joshua has faced nothing but tin cans but that is every fighters traditional starting point. But even against a tin can you can pick out potential in accuracy, movement and power.

cowzerp

Wlad is going to do as he pleases with him as he is quite simply ion a different league than Tyson Fury.

walshb

cowzerp wrote: »

Wlad is going to do as he pleases with him as he is quite simply ion a different league than Tyson Fury.

I agree somewhat, but he still has to overcome the physical size advantages. They alone are impacting. Wlad is 39 now. Not as fast and as destructive as years gone by. Fury may pose some issues and may exploit Wlad's age.

davegrohl48

Fury has an 8" reach advantage on Klitschko. Both like to fight with their left hand forward basically dominating the fight with that left hand. It is effective if you don't bull on and power through it.
- If you back up you are going to lose on points
- If you try to outbox in orthodox manner the left hand is there in your face for 12 rounds often used as a push. The slightest push to your face when trying to punch unbalances you
You have to be willing to take the left jab to the face to throw your own shot. The overhand right being an effective shot as both fighters leave themselves exposed when they go into reverse mode. Both fighters also carry their left hand extended and low. They don't spring it back to protect their left jaw.
Personally I'm a fan of orthodox boxers who bring their left jab back quickly to protect themselves.
I wouldn't call this fight until I see the physical shape Tyson Fury turns up in. Still does not look like there is a whole lot of modern sports science going on with his training.

Mantis Toboggan

cowzerp wrote: »

Wlad is going to do as he pleases with him as he is quite simply ion a different league than Tyson Fury.

Lets hope Vlad believes this because if he underestimates Fury he could be in for an all merciful shock come fight night.

Frank Bullitt

davegrohl48 wrote: »

Have a look at the Povedkin and also the Jennings fights all on Youtube. Then seriously tell me Klitcshko is on a par with Lewis. He was not winning at his leisure he was holding as a tactic. His left jab had absolutetly nothing on it. Jennings mainly blocked it all night. When he was hit with it little effect. In total in 12 rounds just a small handful of straight rights were damaging.
Seeing as I believe Joshua is much better than Povedkin n Jennings no it is not a joke.

Im afraid you haven't a clue what you are talking about.

Klitschko is one of the most dominant fighters to walk the planet, his scary record proves this. He may not be the most entertaining fighter to watch at times (personally I enjoy watching his fights) but what you are trying to say is laughable.

Show me the last time he dodged a fighter for any reason. He has fought whoever has been there for the past 10 years or so and has always done the job, convincingly at that.

I honestly thought you were having a laugh when you implied that you rated Anthony Joshua but didn't rate Wladamir Klitschko. And I'm still shocked that anyone who would claim to be a boxing fan, would even try that.

So here you go, a 14 minute video with the 53 knockouts of his career. Not bad for a fighter you don't rate.

davegrohl48

The heavyweight division has been poor in those ten years. Go ahead and name me three 6'4"+ fighters with size and power in the last ten years. Generally used to be such fighters out of USA but no longer. I made no claims he dodged anyone but said on another post he was enjoying the current state of the heavyweight division.
I wont take anything out of that highlights video of 53 kos. You give me three such names that could have lived in the ring with a Lewis. Height, size and power. Iv already looked at Klitschkos taller opponents and the only two I see with power he lost to. I will stand corrected if you can give me three such fighters on his record. David Haye is not 6'4" before you start and thats the minimum height to take on Klitschko. Three names, height, size and power. You'll only find Purrity and Sanders. Stand corrected if you find others with height n power.

Frank Bullitt

davegrohl48 wrote: »

The heavyweight division has been poor in those ten years. Go ahead and name me three 6'4"+ fighters with size and power in the last ten years. Generally used to be such fighters out of USA but no longer. I made no claims he dodged anyone but said on another post he was enjoying the current state of the heavyweight division.
I wont take anything out of that highlights video of 53 kos. You give me three such names that could have lived in the ring with a Lewis. Height, size and power. Iv already looked at Klitschkos taller opponents and the only two I see with power he lost to. I will stand corrected if you can give me three such fighters on his record. David Haye is not 6'4" before you start and thats the minimum height to take on Klitschko. Three names, height, size and power. You'll only find Purrity and Sanders. Stand corrected if you find others with height n power.

So you need 3 opponents above his height and until then his record stands for nothing? His 53 KO's stand for nothing? You're having a laugh.

Do you think that its his fault that the heavyweight division is as it is because of him? Its not his fault that thats who he gets to fight. Height stands for nothing unless you use it, Haye showed that when he beat Valuev.

You're the one who said you don't rate him, and you rationale seems to be because he hasn't fought anyone taller than him. That essentially overlooks his skill, speed, power, technicality and general gift for boxing.

davegrohl48

Is Wlad suddenly 6'3"? Wlad is generally stated as 6'7".
Is 6'4" taller than 6'7"?
It is not his fault the division has been poor. One factor is the big decline in participation in USA. From Foreman in '75 to Lewis in 95 there is a much better 20 years of heavyweights.
A highlights video of kos is meaningless. It needs context. The main context is how many of those fighters were fresh and in early rounds. Knocking out an exhausted Tony Thompson aged 40 for example. Similar Joshua against the tin cans you can only take one punch power and some quick handspeed. Personally I think quick handspeed in big heavyweights is rare. They might be able to rocket off one shot, but its rare to see big heavyweights who can combo with speed. It doesnt matter if against a tincan combination speed wont vary based on opponent. Joshua when an opponent is stunned has the fastest combinations of a big heavyweight since .... I dunno hard to come up with a heavyweight who could rattle off four/five punches like that. Not of big heavyweights.

Mantis Toboggan

Whatever about the fight itself we're atleast guaranteed comedy

Talib Fiasco

Wlad is 6"4...where in the name of Jay are you getting 6"7 from?

Frank Bullitt

davegrohl48 wrote: »

Is Wlad suddenly 6'3"? Wlad is generally stated as 6'7".
Is 6'4" taller than 6'7"?
It is not his fault the division has been poor. One factor is the big decline in participation in USA. From Foreman in '75 to Lewis in 95 there is a much better 20 years of heavyweights.
A highlights video of kos is meaningless. It needs context. The main context is how many of those fighters were fresh and in early rounds. Knocking out an exhausted Tony Thompson aged 40 for example. Similar Joshua against the tin cans you can only take one punch power and some quick handspeed. Personally I think quick handspeed in big heavyweights is rare. They might be able to rocket off one shot, but its rare to see big heavyweights who can combo with speed. It doesnt matter if against a tincan combination speed wont vary based on opponent. Joshua when an opponent is stunned has the fastest combinations of a big heavyweight since .... I dunno hard to come up with a heavyweight who could rattle off four/five punches like that. Not of big heavyweights.

Im at a loss now as to what exactly you are saying. You say a video of KO's is meaningless, this is boxing, a KO is the holy grail of a victory. Wlad has 53 of them, just take a second to understand that.

Try and look at that video I posted and say Wlad has slow hands, or rather isn't quick.

Another example:

And where the hell did you get 6'7 as his height?

mada82

Talib Fiasco wrote: »

Wlad is 6"4...where in the name of Jay are you getting 6"7 from?

He's 6ft 6 isn't he?

Frank Bullitt

Vitali is 6'7

davegrohl48

Okay Wlad is 6'6".
I'v seen that video of his ko's. A video of KO's is a 100% sample of just KO's. A Kevin Kilbane video of goals needs context so does a boxers kos seeing as yer only looking at successful moments.
He had better handspeed in his early career. Wlads most effective power shot is his straight right like most tall fighters. Even if I proved with video analysis software that his punch speed is nothing special you wouldn't believe it. There'd be some other angle of how the time of a punch from initiation to landing is irrelevant. You're primarily debating my knowledge rather than any point of discussion as regards Wlad.

davegrohl48

Talib Fiasco wrote: »

Wlad is 6"4...where in the name of Jay are you getting 6"7 from?

Have a careful read and you tell me where exactly you got that from? The point I made was to beat Wlad you need to be 6'4"+
The 'Taller opponents' reference was in reference to taller opponents from his list of previous. It didnt equate at all that theres a 6'4"+ benchmark to be taller than Wlad.

Frank Bullitt

davegrohl48 wrote: »

Okay Wlad is 6'6".
I'v seen that video of his ko's. A video of KO's is a 100% sample of just KO's. A Kevin Kilbane video of goals needs context so does a boxers kos seeing as yer only looking at successful moments.
He had better handspeed in his early career. Wlads most effective power shot is his straight right like most tall fighters. Even if I proved with video analysis software that his punch speed is nothing special you wouldn't believe it. There'd be some other angle of how the time of a punch from initiation to landing is irrelevant. You're primarily debating my knowledge rather than any point of discussion as regards Wlad.

Firstly, the Kilbane reference is irrelevant. Boxing is one on one, not team vs team like football, so that is a poor reference for your argument.

All of the knockouts are against worthy opponents, and the sheer fact that there are 53 of them should tell you something of the calibre of the fighter. I suppose his 63 victories have to be "put in context" as well.

You have no video analysis to provide so I have nothing to defend against on that one, thats a straw-man. Im not saying he has the fastest hands that ever existed in HW, but he sure as hell has some of the most effective ones.

Im debating your critique of Wlad as it is absurd in a lot of ways. I have shown and provided evidence to go against what you say about him. His record, the videos of his knockouts, he has fought tall guys and undefeated guys and beaten them as well.

But still, you don't rate him.

davegrohl48

Okay I think we can draw some calm to this all. When you used quick to describe Wlads hands I take that as in Tyson quick or Larry Holmes jab quick. For a guy 6'6" he has great handspeed, for a guy 6'6" that is. My own viewpoint is that Joshua is quicker, a video won't prove that only a proper slow mo analysis to the millisecond which I don't think either of us have the interest in completing.
I don't deny that Wlad has beaten all put before him, but some of them like all boxers records are tin cans. So when I see a video of 53 kos, it tells me what I already know 53 kos. Does it learn either of us anything knew? He has a decent left hook to the head. He has a tremendous straight right, but we all knew that as is logical for a guy 6'6" with long arms, size and ability to throw it with some speed.
However I have doubts about his chin from his three losses and that is not in that video. Same as Kevin Kilbanes all round game would not be in a video of his goals.
I don't believe he would have hung in there with a Lennox Lewis (no need to reference Vitalis fight)
I don't believe he will beat Anthony Joshua if they ever fight.
That does not make me somehow completely not rating Wlad. I think Lennox Lewis is an all time great and I am of a small but growing opinion that Anthony Joshua has all that is needed to be the next heavyweight champion. I can't provide you any evidence that he can be no more than you can provide me evidence he can't beat Wlad.
If Wlad beats Antony Joshua or if Joshua slips up meanwhile against a lesser name I'll be back on here to say that I got it wrong.
If Joshua one day beats Wlad will you be back on here? Will I have fluked that prediction? It's not exactly an earth shattering counter point to believe a powerful fighter like Joshua could take Wlad. I can't base it on any pro wins, all I can look at is my own eyes judgement of his power and ability. If a guy is competitive at Olympic level within 4 years and has outstanding power, size and athleticism it is hardly a shock predicition that I am saying he can be a champion.
My whole point all through this has been that the fighter to beat Wlad has been rare this past 20 years, 6'4" with size and power. Until Joshua has come along I don't have a name for you to match those criteria in 20 years. Clearly they have to be able to box and I believe Joshua can box.
So we might as well leave this debate and stick to the Fury - Wlad debate.
On that topic as I said I'm waiting to see what shape Tyson turns up in. He will need to be in good shape for Wlad as Wlad has never shown any stamina issues whereas Tyson certainly has in fights.