Critérium du Dauphiné 2015 - Stage 8 (final stage) **warning: no spoiler tags**

pelevin

I think twas yesterday TVG lost it, stupidly working with Froome. Not the rider to consider his ally.

Brian?

pelevin wrote: »

I think twas yesterday TVG lost it, stupidly working with Froome. Not the rider to consider his ally.

I don't think working with Froome really made a difference. It wouldn't have saved him the +10s he needed to hold onto yellow.

MPFG

Brian? wrote: »

I don't think working with Froome really made a difference. It wouldn't have saved him the +10s he needed to hold onto yellow.

I agree Froome was too strong for TJ to hang on to (even if he paced himself)

Also true that the SKY train is impressive.....so fast ....but

1. It will be hard to keep that up for 3 weeks for the team whoever is in it...no way was Wiggo's train in 2012 that fast

2. and after you have seen it a few times its gets so old


Froome is for me defo the fastest from 2/3 KM out on any climb ...I suppose Quintana/Contador can try from further out if they can...and Nibs can try on rolling terraine and on cobbles....but someone will have to do something to scupper the train

pelevin

Brian? wrote: »

I don't think working with Froome really made a difference. It wouldn't have saved him the +10s he needed to hold onto yellow.

It might have made a difference - and it really was down to a handful of seconds - and whatever about how things were going to pan out, it was wrong thinking to share the work with Froome when being ahead of him on GC enabled him to ride in a different manner. Blurred vision imo to have imagined Froome was his ally rather than biggest threat the way things were panning out.

happytramp

I hate to say this but I think Sky would be out of there minds to take Roche based on his performance over the whole week.

On the other hand, I'd say Deignan has given himself a good chance.

Roquentin

quintana will be interesting to see. i still fancy him on the slopes

MPFG

happytramp wrote: »

I hate to say this but I think Sky would be out of there minds to take Roche based on his performance over the whole week.

On the other hand, I'd say Deignan has given himself a good chance.

Roche race was disappointing alright but a few points to remember

1)If he rode the in line at Deignan or Kennaugh place he would have lasted as long...not quite sure how commentators don't see that..he just didn't ride as well as Poels or of course Froome

2) He rode as well most days as some of the leaders in other team who we are told are not in form for the Tour so why can't Nico be not in form yet ??

3) and this is the most serious consideration...A week race as we are often told is so different from a 3 weeks race ...Nico usually ends the Tour in better condition and he has lots of experience of riding the Tour & being consistent ..

I think for those reasons he will go and SKY would not be out of their minds to bring him

Deignan has been good this week but he was dropped on Thursday & didn't last long on Saturday either ...but he is a shoe in but SKY would be out of their minds to bring Roche ???

I think Nico disappoints because expectations are high ..not least set by himself .but to say based on one race that SKY would be out of their mind to bring him is rubbish..given his record at GTs ...you could say the same of JC Peraud or Mollema or Sanchez or Vockleur or Kelderman or Meintjes or Taarame or Zubeldia or several others who most days finished behind him even if he knocked off and rode for someone else ....maybe all these should not go to the Tour also ???

I hope Deignan & Roche both go ...but please show some support for all Irish riders and not make ludicrous statements saying a team WOULD BE OUT OF THEIR MIND TO BRING EITHER

dastardly00

happytramp wrote: »

I hate to say this but I think Sky would be out of there minds to take Roche based on his performance over the whole week.

On the other hand, I'd say Deignan has given himself a good chance.

Nico has been poor this week, but to say that Sky would be out of their minds to bring him is too strong of a statement.

Darkglasses

The Tour doesn't start til the 4th of July, Nico's not in perfect form but he's not far off. I'd still be fully confident that he will be picked.

Pudsy33

MPFG wrote: »

Roche race was disappointing alright but a few points to remember

1)If he rode the in line at Deignan or Kennaugh place he would have lasted as long...not quite sure how commentators don't see that..he just didn't ride as well as Poels or of course Froome

2) He rode as well most days as some of the leaders in other team who we are told are not in form for the Tour so why can't Nico be not in form yet ??

3) and this is the most serious consideration...A week race as we are often told is so different from a 3 weeks race ...Nico usually ends the Tour in better condition and he has lots of experience of riding the Tour & being consistent ..

I think for those reasons he will go and SKY would not be out of their minds to bring him

Deignan has been good this week but he was dropped on Thursday & didn't last long on Saturday either ...but he is a shoe in but SKY would be out of their minds to bring Roche ???

I think Nico disappoints because expectations are high ..not least set by himself .but to say based on one race that SKY would be out of their mind to bring him is rubbish..given his record at GTs ...you could say the same of JC Peraud or Mollema or Sanchez or Vockleur or Kelderman or Meintjes or Taarame or Zubeldia or several others who most days finished behind him even if he knocked off and rode for someone else ....maybe all these should not go to the Tour also ???

I hope Deignan & Roche both go ...but please show some support for all Irish riders and not make ludicrous statements saying a team WOULD BE OUT OF THEIR MIND TO BRING EITHER

Bang on, like I said he's the road captain and they cannot afford to leave someone of his experience behind.

happytramp

MPFG wrote: »

Roche race was disappointing alright but a few points to remember

1)If he rode the in line at Deignan or Kennaugh place he would have lasted as long...not quite sure how commentators don't see that..he just didn't ride as well as Poels or of course Froome

2) He rode as well most days as some of the leaders in other team who we are told are not in form for the Tour so why can't Nico be not in form yet ??

3) and this is the most serious consideration...A week race as we are often told is so different from a 3 weeks race ...Nico usually ends the Tour in better condition and he has lots of experience of riding the Tour & being consistent ..

I think for those reasons he will go and SKY would not be out of their minds to bring him

Deignan has been good this week but he was dropped on Thursday & didn't last long on Saturday either ...but he is a shoe in but SKY would be out of their minds to bring Roche ???

I think Nico disappoints because expectations are high ..not least set by himself .but to say based on one race that SKY would be out of their mind to bring him is rubbish..given his record at GTs ...you could say the same of JC Peraud or Mollema or Sanchez or Vockleur or Kelderman or Meintjes or Taarame or Zubeldia or several others who most days finished behind him even if he knocked off and rode for someone else ....maybe all these should not go to the Tour also ???

I hope Deignan & Roche both go ...but please show some support for all Irish riders and not make ludicrous statements saying a team WOULD BE OUT OF THEIR MIND TO BRING EITHER

No need for your angry capital letters. It is my opinion and i'm fully entitled to it. I don't need to pat every Irish sports star on the back purely because they're Irish. I really like Roche but based solely on this race on this I don't think he'd get a place. However he looked really good earlier in the season so I'm still hopeful he'll get picked. It's just that with Porte and G. Thomas, Konig fairly certain of places and Kennaugh and Poels looking good this week and Ian Stannard a good shout for early stage wins, there will be stiff competition.

MPFG

My capital letters were not angry they were for emphasis

and no one said you were not entitled to your opinion...its the language of ...'SKY would be out of their minds' I object to and no one asked you to pat Roche on the back...its not like he can't ride a bike...maybe if you can give it it out you shoudn't be so touchy when someone challenges your opinion

And even with Porte, Thomas, Konig, Henao, Kennaugh, Poels & Stannard there is still room

niceonetom

MPFG wrote: »

...but please show some support for all Irish riders and not make ludicrous statements saying a team WOULD BE OUT OF THEIR MIND TO BRING EITHER

This is mindless jingoism and a direct call to silence differing opinions.

MPFG wrote: »

and no one said you were not entitled to your opinion...its the language of ...'SKY would be out of their minds' I object to and no one asked you to pat Roche on the back...its not like he can't ride a bike...maybe if you can give it it out you shoudn't be so touchy when someone challenges your opinion

This is a straight up denial of what preceded it. And, worse, a pot/kettle reaction to being challenged on your right to be hysterical.

Roche is going like a bag of spanners.

Do I have to hand my passport in or something?

Lusk_Doyle

niceonetom wrote: »

Do I have to hand my passport in or something?

Only if you are not travelling through the Schengen zone!

pelevin

It's all kicking off.

manwithaplan

MPFG wrote: »

1)If he rode the in line at Deignan or Kennaugh place he would have lasted as long...not quite sure how commentators don't see that..he just didn't ride as well as Poels or of course Froome

How do you know he would have lasted as long as Deignan or Kennaugh? What I saw was that he was on their wheels getting some protection and when it came to his turn to push the pace at the bottom of the last climb he blew almost immediately. That would indicate to me that he was struggling even before he hit the front and you cannot say he would have comfortably done Deignan or Kennaugh's job.

MPFG

niceonetom wrote: »

This is mindless jingoism and a direct call to silence differing opinions.



This is a straight up denial of what preceded it. And, worse, a pot/kettle reaction to being challenged on your right to be hysterical.

Roche is going like a bag of spanners.

Do I have to hand my passport in or something?

Jaasus and you say my post is mindless ....

....I said the language was way off and also challenged the veracity and context of the criticism ...you want to turn my opinion into a 'hysterical' reaction and make it personal

I also said Roche was disappointing but I didn't throw him under the bus


Do you think I would not criticize ANY Irish sportsperson ??? Of course but in a reasonable manner ....

And as for bringing your passport in to it ....WTF

MPFG

manwithaplan wrote: »

How do you know he would have lasted as long as Deignan or Kennaugh? What I saw was that he was on their wheels getting some protection and when it came to his turn to push the pace at the bottom of the last climb he blew almost immediately. That would indicate to me that he was struggling even before he hit the front and you cannot say he would have comfortably done Deignan or Kennaugh's job.

He did the same pace as them on climbs and more some days....very little drafting on climbs

niceonetom

MPFG wrote: »

Jaasus and you say my post is mindless ....

I said it contains mindless jingoism, which it does. This "please only speak well of the irish" stuff is a bit sad really. Belies deep insecurity.

MPFG wrote: »

....I said the language was way off and also challenged the veracity and context of the criticism ...you want to turn my opinion into a 'hysterical' reaction and make it personal

This offense-taking stuff is just weird. Especially when you're taking offense on behalf of others - professional sportsmen who have I'm sure much thicker skin than yours. Being offended is not an argument. Honest appraisal goes with the territory. Why are you taking it on yourself to police the speech of others here? Who are you to demand they not say certain things? It's preposterous.

happytramp

And to be fair the phrase "out of their minds" is really quite tame. Find it hard to believe anyone could take offence to it.

Anyway still really hope Roche gets picked. He still has time to get back to the form he showed at Romandie.

MPFG

niceonetom wrote: »

I said it contains mindless jingoism, which it does. This "please only speak well of the irish" stuff is a bit sad really. Belies deep insecurity.



This offense-taking stuff is just weird. Especially when you're taking offense on behalf of others - professional sportsmen who have I'm sure much thicker skin than yours. Being offended is not an argument. Honest appraisal goes with the territory. Why are you taking it on yourself to police the speech of others here? Who are you to demand they not say certain things? It's preposterous.

The same reason you are taking it on yourself to police what I say ....I disagree

It seems you can turn what I say into some 'mindless' sensitive deluded defense of able bodied sportsmen and I cannot object to another post

Kettel pot black

niceonetom

MPFG wrote: »

The same reason you are taking it on yourself to police what I say ....I disagree

I'm disagreeing with you. That's entirely different to your demands that happytramp not say certain things, or at least not say them a certain way, or something.

The difference is obvious. If you can't see that I can't help you.

shutup

Roquentin wrote: »

quintana will be interesting to see. i still fancy him on the slopes

I hope you are right but after what Froome did in 2013 I cant understand how you think that. Quintana was blown away on stage 8 and than that remarkable performance on Ventoux.

MPFG

niceonetom wrote: »

I'm disagreeing with you. That's entirely different to your demands that happytramp not say certain things, or at least not say them a certain way, or something.

The difference is obvious. If you can't see that I can't help you.

!st of all ...'if you can't see that I can't help you' is a typical disrespectful argument ...inferring I have a some sort of problem..and you are too aware to even bother with my opinion......in fact all your language is disrespectful to my opinion...using words like mindless ,etc

I object to the sentiment behind the language ...SKY would be out of their minds to bring him' because it is not true which I pointed out but it is too much given his record and current circumstances...its is too harsh and uncalled for

and as far as I can see I am well within my rights to do so ...with you turning it into some sort of fatal character flaw

I am not going to continue on this tit for tat except to say not once have you or others who attacked my post accept an veracity in any argument I made ...you would rather undermine me and take exception to questioning of your posts

If you just want t be right all the time I suggest you argue with yourself

dastardly00

Nico's diary for the last two stages

Personally, I'm feeling pretty tired at the moment and a bit disappointed not to have been able to help Chris a bit more on some of the final climbs but I had a big block of training before this Dauphine and now it will be all about recovering for the Tour de France in three weeks' time.

MPFG

Brailsford not finding Tour selection easy

http://velonews.competitor.com/2015/06/news/brailsford-says-it-wont-be-easy-to-pick-skys-tour-nine_373879

TheBlaaMan

MPFG wrote: »

Brailsford not finding Tour selection easy

http://velonews.competitor.com/2015/06/news/brailsford-says-it-wont-be-easy-to-pick-skys-tour-nine_373879

"At the beginning of the year, Sky raised the stakes by signing several high-profile riders to back Froome in a bid for a second yellow jersey, including Nicolas Roche, Leopold Konig, and Wout Poels.

Behind them are Sky stalwarts, such as Richie Porte, Peter Kennough, and Geraint Thomas. All six of those riders are all but assured a spot. The final two will likely be decided between riders such as Mikel Nieve, Sergio Henao, Ian Stannard, Danny Pate, Vasil Kiryienka, and David Lopez"

Looks like they are not even regarding Philip Deignan as being in with a shout....

Roquentin

TheBlaaMan wrote: »

"At the beginning of the year, Sky raised the stakes by signing several high-profile riders to back Froome in a bid for a second yellow jersey, including Nicolas Roche, Leopold Konig, and Wout Poels.

Behind them are Sky stalwarts, such as Richie Porte, Peter Kennough, and Geraint Thomas. All six of those riders are all but assured a spot. The final two will likely be decided between riders such as Mikel Nieve, Sergio Henao, Ian Stannard, Danny Pate, Vasil Kiryienka, and David Lopez"

Looks like they are not even regarding Philip Deignan as being in with a shout....

thats a strong lineup

MPFG

TheBlaaMan wrote: »

"At the beginning of the year, Sky raised the stakes by signing several high-profile riders to back Froome in a bid for a second yellow jersey, including Nicolas Roche, Leopold Konig, and Wout Poels.

Behind them are Sky stalwarts, such as Richie Porte, Peter Kennough, and Geraint Thomas. All six of those riders are all but assured a spot. The final two will likely be decided between riders such as Mikel Nieve, Sergio Henao, Ian Stannard, Danny Pate, Vasil Kiryienka, and David Lopez"

Looks like they are not even regarding Philip Deignan as being in with a shout....

Thing is SKY have alot of very strong riders .. I think if you want to ride the Tour you might have to leave

Almost any other team would pick Deignan/Nieve/Lopez as mountain doms...Bet Contador would love to have them

happytramp

TheBlaaMan wrote: »

"At the beginning of the year, Sky raised the stakes by signing several high-profile riders to back Froome in a bid for a second yellow jersey, including Nicolas Roche, Leopold Konig, and Wout Poels.

Behind them are Sky stalwarts, such as Richie Porte, Peter Kennough, and Geraint Thomas. All six of those riders are all but assured a spot. The final two will likely be decided between riders such as Mikel Nieve, Sergio Henao, Ian Stannard, Danny Pate, Vasil Kiryienka, and David Lopez"

Looks like they are not even regarding Philip Deignan as being in with a shout....

In my opinion Ian Stannard is a must to guide Froome through the early cobbled/Ardennes style stages. Henao would usually be another favoured rider except he's been injured and an unknown quantity right now. Deignan looked pretty comfortable in the crappy weather last week which is something SKY have been fairly poor at dealing with in the past. The dept in that squad is astounding. (unfortunately, since I really don't want Froome to win )