Commercial Van tax too high?

pbthevet

With most tax costs on vehicles going down by near 50% when based on co2 is the €333 for commercials now a bit high?

Equivalent "car" tax of my vehicle is €280

The €333 came in during the boom. Tine to be more realistic especially to help generate business.

About €280 be fair

166man

Sorry are you joking here?

You mean Vans that use the roads 7 days a week doing hundreds of thousands of km every year, yet they should pay less?

Things would want to be pretty bad for your business if you're looking for an annual saving of €53.......;)

turbocab

166man wrote: »

Sorry are you joking here?

You mean Vans that use the roads 7 days a week doing hundreds of thousands of km every year, yet they should pay less?

Things would want to be pretty bad for your business if you're looking for an annual saving of €53.......;)

yeh and the taxis pay only 80 odd euro a year,we are subsidising them all

Bpmull

you can claim back the cat if you are a business so I don't really think the 143 euro difference a year is the end of the world. You either want a van or a car you don't pay benefit and kind on a van so you can't really have it everyway 333 is hardly high tax either.

Bpmull

Bpmull wrote: »

..... you don't pay benefit and kind on a van...

5% of OMV is the rate for a van. Regardless of what business miles are done by who has the "benefit" of the vehicle.

George Dalton

I would say it is far more likely that the government would seek to address the issue by increasing the rates for private tax rather than reducing the commercial rate.

Bpmull

Augeo wrote: »

5% of OMV is the rate for a van. Regardless of what business miles are done by who has the "benefit" of the vehicle.

See exceptions section. If your using the van for work you don't pay benefit and kind. Anyway Im not going arguing it out as it's not that relevant to the thread.

http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/it/leaflets/benefit-in-kind/private-use-vans.html#section9

Bpmull

Bpmull wrote: »

See exceptions section. If your using the van for work you don't pay benefit and kind. Anyway Im not going arguing it out as it's not that relevant to the thread.

http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/it/leaflets/benefit-in-kind/private-use-vans.html#section9

Of course there are exceptions, any private use and BIK is applicable, you said BIK does not apply to vans as a blanket statement, you were incorrect, no argument.

Bpmull

Augeo wrote: »

Of course there are exceptions, any private use and BIK is applicable, you said BIK does not apply to vans as a blanket statement, you were incorrect, no argument.

But how to do tax a van commercially to use it for private use. If your using it privately you'd tax it privately which wouldn't apply to what I said as we are talking about commercial tax on commercial vehicles how does private use come into it. You can't turn around tax a van commercially and pay bik on it if you do it won't take revenue long to get onto you about it.

Bpmull

Bpmull wrote: »

But how to do tax a van commercially to use it for private use. If your using it privately you'd tax it privately which wouldn't apply to what I said as we are talking about commercial tax on commercial vehicles how does private use come into it. You can't turn around tax a van commercially and pay bik on it if you do it won't take revenue long to get onto you about it.

On a company supplied van if there is private use there is BIK applicable.
The exemptions you link to almost join the dots for you, employer doesn't require employee to take van home as they have a lock up / secure yard / premises with parking, they allow employee take van home, BIK is applicable.

Revenue won't be "getting onto" anyone in above case.

What rate was your golf van taxed at?

Bpmull

Augeo wrote: »

What rate was your golf van taxed at?

Sure you know everything anyway why would you have to ask.

Lol.... You are a funny guy, no bother telling us all about your dad paying 333 per annum on a new golf as the tax rate would be less privately and he uses it for work.

Quite clamish when asked about the golf van used as a commuter to college where commercial rate was about half private rate, no revenue links being bandied about for that

Bpmull

Augeo wrote: »

Lol.... You are a funny guy, no bother telling us all about your dad paying 333 per annum on a new golf as the tax rate would be less privately and he uses it for work.

Quite clamish when asked about the golf van used as a commuter to college where commercial rate was about half private rate, no revenue links being bandied about for that

My dad use his van soley for work he uses our octavia for any private use. My golf van was taxed privately so what I meant was surly you know what a 1.9 is taxed on on cc rates it's great being on co2 rates im saving nearly 500 quid a year. Anyway I'm not commenting on this anymore.

One thing I will say is you are posting on the motors thread for a good while now and you have never actually come on to post a comment that would help someone with an issue just soley to troll and nit pick whatever someone else's say not just me loads of other posters. It's a pity as it has the forum ruined used to be great a few years ago always great chats about cars and mechanics no wonder so many decent posters have left.

166man

Bpmull wrote: »

My dad use his van soley for work he uses our octavia for any private use. My golf van was taxed privately so what I meant was surly you know what a 1.9 is taxed on on cc rates it's great being on co2 rates im saving nearly 500 quid a year. Anyway I'm not commenting on this anymore.

One thing I will say is you are posting on the motors thread for a good while now and you have never actually come on to post a comment that would help someone with an issue just soley to troll and nit pick whatever someone else's say not just me loads of other posters. It's a pity as it has the forum ruined used to be great a few years ago always great chats about cars and mechanics no wonder so many decent posters have left.

With respect I'm pretty sure I remeber reading one of your posts recently where you mentioned your mother had been driving his Golf van for quite a while as he was spending so much time abroad?

I'm also pretty certain when your Golf was for sale it was also taxed commercially, or am I wrong?

Supergurrier

Ahh no.

Lets sort out the joke that is the cc rate on private vehicles first lads

Bpmull

Supergurrier wrote: »

Ahh no.

Lets sort out the joke that is the cc rate on private vehicles first lads

I realistically couldn't see that coming down just the CO2 bands going up to make the gap smaller seems the government are sorry they ever brought them out.

Bpmull

Bpmull wrote: »

....

Anyway it's getting way to personal at this stage maybe Augeo is right on the 5% it's just ive literally never heard of anyone paying bik on vans and have heard loads of people turning down company cars to get vans because of bik. That was always my interpretation of it you remove rear seats to cut out the bik.

I'm 100% correct on the 5%, as per the link you provided.

Stheno

Augeo wrote: »

I'm 100% correct on the 5%, as per the link you provided.

Yep any private use makes it suobject to BIK it's just not enforced

Bpmull

Augeo wrote: »

I'm 100% correct on the 5%, as per the link you provided.

Well that's fair enough but I just can't understand how so many people have company vans that I would know and never pay bik surly it should be automatically be taken out of their wages where as when it comes to cars there seems to be no arguments everyone who has a company car pays bik. I mean people that get vans from companies they work for not talking about vans that people but themselves.

Stheno

Bpmull wrote: »

Well that's fair enough but I just can't understand how so many people have company vans that I would know and never pay bik surly it should be automatically be taken out of their wages where as when it comes to cars there seems to be no arguments everyone who has a company car pays bik. I mean people that get vans from companies they work for not talking about vans that people but themselves.

They probably claim there is no private use

pablo128

pbthevet wrote: »

With most tax costs on vehicles going down by near 50% when based on co2 is the €333 for commercials now a bit high?

Equivalent "car" tax of my vehicle is €280

The €333 came in during the boom. Tine to be more realistic especially to help generate business.

About €280 be fair

Private motorists cannot claim back VAT on diesel. Business people can.

Bpmull

Stheno wrote: »

They probably claim there is no private use

Must be because people have said to me ah I took the van over the company car so I wouldn't have to pay bik on it. I have genuinely never heard of someone who actually pays bik on a company van they but as I've learned that doesn't mean it doesn't apply you just think they would clamp down on it probably they have bigger fish to fry I suppose.

The BIK on a 20k van is 1000/annum, on the higher rate that would cost a tenner a week in tax, people might consider it small enough to call it nothing or they may not even know they are paying it.

A friend earns 28k per annum and pays BIK on a VW caddy, the tax he pays is less than a fiver a week

Bpmull

Augeo wrote: »

The BIK on a 20k van is 1000/annum, on the higher rate that would cost a tenner a week in tax, people might consider it small enough to call it nothing or they may not even know they are paying it.

A friend earns 28k per annum and pays BIK on a VW caddy, the tax he pays is less than a fiver a week

I suppose when you put it like that where as it would be a few 100 a months a car wouldn't it ?

Stheno

Bpmull wrote: »

I suppose when you put it like that where as it would be a few 100 a months a car wouldn't it ?

Yes

Bpmull

Bpmull wrote: »

I suppose when you put it like that where as it would be a few 100 a months a car wouldn't it ?

If doing less than 24k business kms per year its 30% of the OMV. 30% of 20k is 6k, on the higher rate that's 3k approx per annum in out of the pocket cash, €250 per month.

To be fair, 20k doesn't buy much new car.

166man

Augeo wrote: »

What rate was your golf van taxed at?

Bpmull wrote: »

My dad use his van soley for work he uses our octavia for any private use. My golf van was taxed privately so what I meant was surly you know what a 1.9 is taxed on on cc rates it's great being on co2 rates im saving nearly 500 quid a year. Anyway I'm not commenting on this anymore.

One thing I will say is you are posting on the motors thread for a good while now and you have never actually come on to post a comment that would help someone with an issue just soley to troll and nit pick whatever someone else's say not just me loads of other posters. It's a pity as it has the forum ruined used to be great a few years ago always great chats about cars and mechanics no wonder so many decent posters have left.

This must be the first case in Ireland BP where you were actually paying more tax than you clearly should have been.

You're here giving out about the forum being ruined, yet also changing your facts to suit your argument. It's poor form, your Golf Van was taxed commercially, simple as.

Bpmull

I don't own that van anymore so what does you looking up how it is taxed now help prove anything. You can change between private and commercial bands the tax was up in April when I was selling it so all you've effectively done is looked up how it's currenrly taxed well done as if the new owner was going to tax it privately. It's a bit weird that you memorised the reg number off the ad tbh.

This all ultimately has nothing to do with it I never said that people should tax vans privately for private use or whatever my point was that if you are paying bik on a commercially taxed van then surly there is a contradiction there as the government say you can't use them for private use yet you are paying bik for private use if you get me doesnt make sense.

166man

Bpmull wrote: »

I don't own that van anymore so what does you looking up how it is taxed now help prove anything. You can change between private and commercial bands the tax was up in April when I was selling it so all you've effectively done is looked up how it's currenrly taxed well done as if the new owner was going to tax it privately. It's a bit weird that you memorised the reg number off the ad tbh.

I know for a fact you had it taxed commercially, as far as I remember you have admitted it here as well. It'd be a bit mad for the new owner to tax it privately alright, just don't treat others on this forum like we are idiots and try and get away with it.

Bpmull

166man wrote: »

I know for a fact you had it taxed commercially, as far as I remember you have admitted it here as well. It'd be a bit mad for the new owner to tax it privately alright, just don't treat others on this forum like we are idiots and try and get away with it.

I'm in the wrong your the one that's flat out making empty acquisitions with zero proof. Then you say I'm changing the facts the suit myself and you turn around and post a bullsh!t screenshot of how a van is taxed now which I don't even own anymore. Then you say that my parents use their golf for private use which is just untrue my mother used it for a few days while her crashed car was being repaired and she is entitled to use it and never broke any law using it it's not like she was out shopping in it.

This is a complete personal attack at this stage and gone beyond a joke I bought the golf van as I couldn't find a decent car version and that van still has the factory plastic on the interior lights that how original it was. I didn't buy it to save on tax and never broke any taxation law with it. So maybe stop throwing around acquisitions until you can prove them as this thread is completely ruined at this stage and might as well be renamed to personal attack on Bpmull posting pictures of my old reg and asking me such personal questions is unfair. Sure I was wrong about the bik which I admitted too but I don't deserve all this. This might be the final straw that breaks the camels back for me tbh might be no harm at this stage.

No Voter And Proud

I remember that van my son called about it when it was for sale and you told him it was on commerical tax and doed.
In fact he told me you too had a great conversation about a langtons evening a couple of weeks back.
I saw it on here and sent it too him (ive been reading this board for a few months before I funally took the plunge and singed up_)

Bpmull

No Voter And Proud wrote: »

I remember that van my son called about it when it was for sale and you told him it was on commerical tax and doed
I saw it on here and sent it too him (ive been reading this board for a few months before I funally took the plunge and singed up_)

Well since I sold it after 1 days I got 3 calls 1st was from the guy that bought it. Second was a guy that was going on about how would he get it taxed commercially if he didn't have a business and I never said to him that it was taxed commercially. 3rd guy I said it was sold too and didn't answer any questions with him.

No Voter And Proud

Well in'all sure whom I gonna believe like me own son or someone lying on the interweb?
I dont see what the issue is. I've had many a commercial taxed private car. DOnt see why yoiu are lyin abou it.

Foxhole Norman

Stheno

Bpmull wrote: »

Then you say that my parents use their golf for private use which is just untrue my mother used it for a few days while her crashed car was being repaired and she is entitled to use it and never broke any law using it it's not like she was out shopping in it.
.

Is it just me or is the above not a contradiction? You say your mother used the van for a few days after she crashed her car and claim that's not private use when she was effectively using it as a replacement for her crashed car ?

No Voter And Proud

Stheno wrote: »

Is it just me or is the above not a contradiction? You say your mother used the van for a few days after she crashed her car and claim that's not private use when she was effectively using it as a replacement for her crashed car ?

Well, OH I dont know perhaps he or she is lyin thru there teeth!

Bpmull

How much detail do you all expect me to go into on a bloody public forum my mother could have been stopped at any stage and would not have been breaking the law by using that van. I can't turn around and give exact details about why as its getting beyond personnel at this stage. As I said I could perfectly gives reasons for everything but I'm not going putting them up on a public forum.

Special Circumstances

No Voter And Proud

Bpmull wrote: »

How much detail do you all expect me to go into ......

Enough to explain why you are lying.

Bpmull

Bpmull wrote: »

I don't own that van anymore so what does you looking up how it is taxed now help prove anything. You can change between private and commercial bands the tax was up in April when I was selling it so all you've effectively done is looked up how it's currenrly taxed well done as if the new owner was going to tax it privately. It's a bit weird that you memorised the reg number off the ad tbh.

......

Well..... Tax due date is Jun 2015 so considering it was sold in late April I don't think the current owner could have taxed it

Stheno

Bpmull wrote: »

How much detail do you all expect me to go into on a bloody public forum my mother could have been stopped at any stage and would not have been breaking the law by using that van. I can't turn around and give exact details about why as its getting beyond personnel at this stage. As I said I could perfectly gives reasons for everything but I'm not going putting them up on a public forum.

I think you are just contradicting yourself and don't fully understand what you are talking about, same with the BIK. Your mother using the van as a replacement for her car most likely constitutes private use, so she should pay the BIK on it going by the letter of Revenue rules is all I am saying here.

You seem to think that because she is a director of the company that owns the van that she can use it regardless and not be subject to BIK which is untrue if there was private use.

jimgoose

My mother (she's 79) is currently doing ten-to-Life in Portlaoise for driving a Seddon Atkinson low-loader over the road to the village for milk in 1981. I chopped the broad in to the filth last year, good enough for her. :cool:

Bpmull

Stheno wrote: »

I think you are just contradicting yourself and don't fully understand what you are talking about, same with the BIK. Your mother using the van as a replacement for her car most likely constitutes private use, so she should pay the BIK on it going by the letter of Revenue rules is all I am saying here.

You seem to think that because she is a director of the company that owns the van that she can use it regardless and not be subject to BIK which is untrue if there was private use.

Your assuming she was using the van for personnel use im telling you it's not the case they wouldn't have a car if it was just a few vans. She would have only used the van for business use as that's what her car is used for the vast majority of the time the car is used for weekend trips with family that's about as much personnel use as it gets. So how much bik they should pay is upto the company accountants to decide infairness Id be hopeing they would be up on the current regulations.

You'd swear that we all had paye employees and went out and bought 3 3.0l jeeps to tax commercially and use privately 100% of the time to save 1000 of euros on.

dgt

What a vanload of fail this thread is, certainly has not been a commercial success for some...!

I'll see myself out, my terrible puns will get better on a Daily basis, i swear

jimgoose wrote: »

My mother (she's 79) is currently doing ten-to-Life in Portlaoise for driving a Seddon Atkinson low-loader over the road to the village for milk in 1981. I chopped the broad in to the filth last year, good enough for her. :cool:

Please don't turn me in... I have used the tractor once or twice to get a roll in the shop

jimgoose

dgt wrote: »

...Please don't turn me in... I have used the tractor once or twice to get a roll in the shop

I can't, I've been in shock all these years since seeing a Burd run an Eaton Twin-Split. :pac:

Stheno

Bpmull wrote: »

Your assuming she was using the van for personnel use im telling you it's not the case they wouldn't have a car if it was just a few vans. She would have only used the van for business use as that's what her car is used for the vast majority of the time the car is used for weekend trips with family that's about as much personnel use as it gets. So how much bik they should pay is upto the company accountants to decide infairness Id be hopeing they would be up on the current regulations.

Well that's fine so. You can just check with the accountants, given that you didn't realise BIK applied to vans at all

Bpmull

Stheno wrote: »

Well that's fine so. You can just check with the accountants, given that you didn't realise BIK applied to vans at all

I have nothing to do with that side of things but believe me to say their accountants would dot every eye and cross every t they would they may well be paying bik on it for all I know I don't sit down a go through the accounts with them :pac:

jimgoose

Bpmull wrote: »

I have nothing to do with that side of things but believe me to say their accountants would dot every eye and cross every t they would they may well be paying bik on it for all I know I don't sit down a go through the accounts with them :pac:

I keep a couple of accountants in the boot nice-and-handy, between the pickaxe-handles and the sawnoff Purdey!

166man

Bpmull wrote: »

I'm in the wrong your the one that's flat out making empty acquisitions with zero proof. Then you say I'm changing the facts the suit myself and you turn around and post a bullsh!t screenshot of how a van is taxed now which I don't even own anymore. Then you say that my parents use their golf for private use which is just untrue my mother used it for a few days while her crashed car was being repaired and she is entitled to use it and never broke any law using it it's not like she was out shopping in it.

This is a complete personal attack at this stage and gone beyond a joke I bought the golf van as I couldn't find a decent car version and that van still has the factory plastic on the interior lights that how original it was. I didn't buy it to save on tax and never broke any taxation law with it. So maybe stop throwing around acquisitions until you can prove them as this thread is completely ruined at this stage and might as well be renamed to personal attack on Bpmull posting pictures of my old reg and asking me such personal questions is unfair. Sure I was wrong about the bik which I admitted too but I don't deserve all this. This might be the final straw that breaks the camels back for me tbh might be no harm at this stage.

Stheno wrote: »

Is it just me or is the above not a contradiction? You say your mother used the van for a few days after she crashed her car and claim that's not private use when she was effectively using it as a replacement for her crashed car ?

Augeo wrote: »

Well..... Tax due date is Jun 2015 so considering it was sold in late April I don't think the current owner could have taxed it

Id tread quite carefully if I were you Bp. Firstly, I have no interest in going into all the personal details of your life with you, but I know that you mentioned that your mother had been driving the Van for quite a while (I'm not bothered finding the post) while your dad was away, and that in itself contradicted what you had said earlier. The Golf van was not being used for any business relating to your fathers so I'd be careful what you're saying.

Secondly, as Augeo has pointed out, if the Van has road tax until June 2015, how on earth could the new owner have taxed it privately, if he only bought it in April 2015? Also, you posted photos of the Van when it was in your posession online on a public forum with the reg clearly visible, that's your own fault there.

This is by no means a personal attack on someone at all I want to add, you contribute a lot to the forum, but it's now been proved you haven't been truthful about certain facts, so don't throw a tantrum when you're called up on them. I don't mind what was you taxed it tbh, it's really no business of mine, but don't try and blatantly change facts to suit yourself.

Now lads....... Moving on.... Apologies to the OP for derailing the thread.

Bpmull

166man Id love to leave this down more than anyone but I'm leaving it like this.

So firstly you say your not trying to bring my personnel life into it but you mentioned my dads golf van. Now if I do nothing else on this forum im setting this straight. You are 100% percent right I said my mother was driving the van for 4 days while her car was being fixed. Not permanently. I did not say she was using it for personnel use just using it. Now as I said most of the time her own car is used for business use too. So for the few days she drove it she would have used it to Carry out her duties in the businesses office. If going to visit friends relative in the evening I would have driven the megane as she prefers to be a passenger. Now I say it's my dads van but in reality it's a 50% 50% split as they both own the company conpany owns the van.

So as I said above she would have never been breaking any law by using it the way she used it. There is no difference between private and commercial tax so that doesn't come into. I don't know whether or not they pay bik but if they are suppose to they do. As do you really think an internationally trading business would take a risk over a few 100 euro a year it would be negligible the savings that they would make.

The proof you know my dad spends loads of time abroad im always saying it. I said a few days ago that it was booked in for its first service so there is now mid 14k km on in it so considering my dad would do 2k km in a week when driving here from site to site and its nine months old Ye so that means it is parked up the vast majority of the time as why would my mother even use it when she has a car.

So that's it in saying know more the above is honest to God truth believe it or not I don't care but I'm fcuked if I'm letting people think my dad has some kind of a company car that has nothing to do with my mother but she drives it around all the time as it's simply not the case.