Why is The Haka even allowed?

kub

Well folks as all the rugby pitches are now being well looked after by their ground staff and as its all quite i thought it might be a good time to pose my question.

Why is it that a country like New Zealand can monopolies the start of a rugby game, why is it allowed?

Dravokivich

They aren't the only ones that do it.

diusmr8a504cvk

Dravokivich wrote: »

They aren't the only ones that do it.

Yeah because everyone is shaking in their boots when Tonga come out and do their dance

Dravokivich

Wynter Petite Scrapbook wrote: »

Yeah because everyone is shaking in their boots when Tonga come out and do their dance

It's still not a monopoly. It is something the New Zealand teams do. But it's not New Zealand's thing for themselves.

diusmr8a504cvk

I suppose it's tradition. Their basketball team do it along with other sports like Lacrosse but it's only in Rugby that it's intimidating because they're beasts and arguably the greatest sports team ever.

diusmr8a504cvk

Although here's a video of the NZ Basketball team or the "Tall Blacks" as they're also known as performing a fairly intimidating Haka against the USA in a game where they lost 98-71.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDucvQYlWj4

dregin

Sure Ireland get two goes at an anthem! I'm sure other countries could do something if they felt like it. I didn't realize it caused offense to anyone.

pkvader

I always wondered how the all blacks would react if the team facing them turned their backs and just ignored the Haka.

bilston

dregin wrote: »

Sure Ireland get two goes at an anthem! I'm sure other countries could do something if they felt like it. I didn't realize it caused offense to anyone.

It hardly causes offence!!! I don't think anyone has that gripe about it!

I think some might argue that it gives NZ a psychological edge. I'm not one of those, but that would be the argument against it, not that it causes offence.

I do think the Kiwis can occasionally be a bit precious about it mind as we saw in Cardiff a few years ago. Still it's part of the theatre of the game when NZ are in town and is here to stay.

sydthebeat

pkvader wrote: »

I always wondered how the all blacks would react if the team facing them turned their backs and just ignored the Haka.

Wouldn't make a difference.
As bilston alludes to above, the kiwis performed a haka in their changing room in a match versus Wales in 2006, because Wales were going to sing their national anthem AFTER the haka.

It's tradition, it's can be hair raising (munsters 4 man haka response was spine chilling), and its inoffensive

fitz

sydthebeat wrote: »

It's tradition, it's can be hair raising (munsters 4 man haka response was spine chilling), and its inoffensive

For that moment alone, and future moment's like it, it should never be gotten rid of. No matter how many times you watch a replay of the Hakas before that game, it's electrifying.

.ak

The ironic thing is however that it was the home nations that asked NZ to preform the Haka on touring games.

Evil_g

kub wrote: »

why is it allowed?

Adidas.

.ak

.ak wrote: »

The ironic thing is however that it was the home nations that asked NZ to preform the Haka on touring games.

How dare you bring history and rationality into this.

dregin

bilston wrote: »

It hardly causes offence!!! I don't think anyone has that gripe about it!

I think some might argue that it gives NZ a psychological edge. I'm not one of those, but that would be the argument against it, not that it causes offence.

I do think the Kiwis can occasionally be a bit precious about it mind as we saw in Cardiff a few years ago. Still it's part of the theatre of the game when NZ are in town and is here to stay.

!!! I'm sorry my post seems to have caused offence. One more for good luck... !

boredatwork82

It should simply for how teams react. There is a video doing the rounds on Facebook, of Peter Clohessys response. Priceless. We have had great responses to the haka over the years, pity we haven't had he results to match.

I think letting teams do things like this are alll part of the respect and sportsman and community that makes rugby what it is. Let's try to keep as much old and traditional.am values in the game. Because it's currently trying so fast to a game I don't like.

BoJack Horseman

Cos it has a monetary value.

The fact that opposing teams are ordered to stand there like idiots watching it & that it takes a timeslot of its own is proof

If it was on its own merit, the kiwis could dance themselves into a frenzy while their opponents warm up in their own 22.....

Buer

Anyone who knows their rugby knows that NZ perform the haka because of the vast number of Pacific Islanders that are present in their team. The haka is the traditional dance of the islanders and, due to the fact that at least two thirds of the NZ side at any given point are born and bred Samoan/Fijian/Tongan, the haka is here to stay.

In fact, the direct translation of the words "Ka Mate" is a Tongan derivative and a rough synonym of "Poached" as evidenced here.

Why are we allowed to intimidate people on our home soil by bringing out the man himself Michael D. Higgins?

Tox56

sydthebeat wrote: »

Wouldn't make a difference.
As bilston alludes to above, the kiwis performed a haka in their changing room in a match versus Wales in 2006, because Wales were going to sing their national anthem AFTER the haka.

It's tradition, it's can be hair raising (munsters 4 man haka response was spine chilling), and its inoffensive

That's a change id be happy to see, if the ABs are visiting they should do the haka first, then the anthems with the home teams anthem last

jack presley

It's a gimmick at this stage. No team is actually intimidated by it or starts shaking in their boots when they line up against it. Pantomime villains are probably scarier.

Micky Dolenz

We should do some version of Riverdance with Healy mixing it up a bit. That'd be some craic.

Rixuraxu

Deleted User wrote: »

Why are we allowed to intimidate people on our home soil by bringing out the man himself Michael D. Higgins?

Man, who the hell is gonna tell him no? You better believe it's not me.

dball

I enjoy watching the haka - as a spectacle there is nothing more hair raising but in recent years there are always hundreds/thousands of spectators booing it to try and drown out its power. Im not a fan of the booing but it seems to have taken the edge off the intensity

Macy0161

The only issue, imo, is how opposition teams are made to stand and take it a certain way. I've no problem with the Haka, but teams should be able to react how they like - like we did in 89, or totally ignore it like Campese doing keepy uppy's in his own 22. This stand on the 10m and do nothing or face a fine is crap.

kub

Macy0161 wrote: »

The only issue, imo, is how opposition teams are made to stand and take it a certain way. I've no problem with the Haka, but teams should be able to react how they like - like we did in 89, or totally ignore it like Campese doing keepy uppy's in his own 22. This stand on the 10m and do nothing or face a fine is crap.

Sorry what is this about facing a fine?

Macy0161

kub wrote: »

Sorry what is this about facing a fine?

France were fined by the IRB for facing up to the haka in the 2011 world cup.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/france/8847514/Rugby-World-Cup-2011-France-fined-for-advancing-on-New-Zealands-haka-before-final-kick-off.html

razorblunt

Does anyone other than fans get their back up about it?
I've never heard a player complain. Personally if I were pro, I'd love to face it, saying that though if they performed anything other than the traditional one I'd be píssed off!

George Hook

Macy0161 wrote: »

The only issue, imo, is how opposition teams are made to stand and take it a certain way. I've no problem with the Haka, but teams should be able to react how they like - like we did in 89, or totally ignore it like Campese doing keepy uppy's in his own 22. This stand on the 10m and do nothing or face a fine is crap.

Didn't a team walk beyond the halfway line and got penalised?



Anyway I love it! It enriches the sport and adds character to the game. And it's here to stay until they sell the rights off to Nike. Then we'll be sitting though 30seconds of a team doing 'the Nike'. Goading us in to buying their wares.

The Dark Side

Was it nor Ireland in the early 90's that first started the trend for facing the Haka - or is my memory playing tricks with me?

Prior to this most teams just continued to warm-up in their own half during the Haka.

buggy beag

Ya think it was france wasnt it.your not allowed to be within 10 metres of them brought down from 20 metres few years ago

keano_afc

Macy0161 wrote: »

The only issue, imo, is how opposition teams are made to stand and take it a certain way. I've no problem with the Haka, but teams should be able to react how they like - like we did in 89, or totally ignore it like Campese doing keepy uppy's in his own 22. This stand on the 10m and do nothing or face a fine is crap.

This. I have no issue with the haka or how its performed. But no way should the opposition have to stand there and take it all in.

Macy0161

I should say, I have some recollection that the All Blacks actually paid the fine for France (but can't find a link), but they certainly don't seem to have an issue with the confrontation anyway (not sure how they react to the disinterest).

The Dark Side

keano_afc wrote: »

But no way should the opposition have to stand there and take it all in.

They don't have to.

Neil3030

It is kind of funny when you see one of the other NZ teams do their haka and then get beaten out the gate. I saw the Rugby League final in Old Trafford last year and it must have been so humiliating to do this big dramatic war dance and then be comprehensively beaten by half time.

Cookiemunster

The Dark Side wrote: »

They don't have to.

They do. http://www.allblacks.com/News/14266/irb-confirms-haka-will-not-be-challenged

The Dark Side

Don't see anything in that about having to watch it.

Pat Mustard

Cookiemunster wrote: »

They do. http://www.allblacks.com/News/14266/irb-confirms-haka-will-not-be-challenged

The Australian Rugby Union (ARU) paid the fine, after it was revealed by a Sydney newspaper that there was a clause in the IRB tournament rules that dictated that teams must face the haka, and remain 10 metres on their own side of the halfway line.

I don't see why the Kiwis have to be pandered to because they are so precious about their haka.

No side should be forced to look on and be captive audience to what is an attempt to gain a psychological edge.

Macy0161 wrote: »

The only issue, imo, is how opposition teams are made to stand and take it a certain way. I've no problem with the Haka, but teams should be able to react how they like - like we did in 89, or totally ignore it like Campese doing keepy uppy's in his own 22. This stand on the 10m and do nothing or face a fine is crap.

^^^^^
Campese's casual lack of interest was best response imo. But apparently, he should have been looking on in reverence.

Swiwi.

Pat Mustard wrote: »

I don't see why the Kiwis have to be pandered to because they are so precious about their haka.

I agree, I can't stand a fuss about nothing.

The Lost Sheep

The Dark Side wrote: »

Was it nor Ireland in the early 90's that first started the trend for facing the Haka - or is my memory playing tricks with me?

Prior to this most teams just continued to warm-up in their own half during the Haka.

It was the 89 side but I don't think they started any trend about facing/challenging the Haka

The Dark Side wrote: »

They don't have to.

They do under WR regs...

Pat Mustard wrote: »

I don't see why the Kiwis have to be pandered to because they are so precious about their haka.

No side should be forced to look on and be captive audience to what is an attempt to gain a psychological edge.

^^^^^
Campese's casual lack of interest was best response imo. But apparently, he should have been looking on in reverence.

Facing the Haka is a challenge and I don't think facing the Haka is pandering to them its accepting the challenge.

total former

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Facing the Haka is a challenge and I don't think facing the Haka is pandering to them its accepting the challenge.

But the point is you should be allowed accept the challenge however you want; you should be allowed get up in their faces or you should be allowed ignore it completely and focus on your own preparation.

I've no problem with the NZers performing the haka but it's a bit much to insist that everyone has to respond in the exact way that NZ want them to.

Thud

It wasn't intimidating to start with so I don't think they should have been allowed to change to be intimidating to get whatever advantage they get (it psyches them up too), make they do this version again, can't see either team getting a benefit or being intimidated and it would be back on a par with a national anthem/Irelands call

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emJyEa4z2Ec

Bridge93

Having faced the Haka myself in rugby games it actually pumps you up as much as the NZ players.

Hagz

My only gripe with the Haka is that the home team should be afforded the opportunity to decide if it is performed prior to the anthems or afterwards. It seems unfair to me that New Zealand, regardless of whether they play home or away, are given the privilege of having the final say in the pre-match ceremonies.

Of course, if history is anything to go by, New Zealand will elect to perform the dance in the changing room if it is not to be the performed immediately before kick-off. And that of course would not sit well with a lot of people.

George Hook

Hagz wrote: »

My only gripe with the Haka is that the home team should be afforded the opportunity to decide if it is performed prior to the anthems or afterwards. It seems unfair to me that New Zealand, regardless of whether they play home or away, are given the privilege of having the final say in the pre-match ceremonies.

Of course, if history is anything to go by, New Zealand will elect to perform the dance in the changing room if it is not to be the performed immediately before kick-off. And that of course would not sit well with a lot of people.

Just to remind everyone, the Haka is not exclusive to New Zealand. It would be helpful if those who know better stopped perpetuating the notion.

Podge_irl

Are the cipi tau etc all known as Hakas?

Swiwi.

George Hook wrote: »

Just to remind everyone, the Haka is not exclusive to New Zealand. It would be helpful if those who know better stopped perpetuating the notion.

Moreover, please note in its correct and sacred Māori form, handed down by the mythical god of war Tūmatauenga, it's Te Haka™. Patent was approved by King George III in 1801. Originally, it was the feared dance of the NZ croquet team, but in a savage bit of trickery, the rights were handed over for 2 bottles of bottleg whisky, 10 blankets, 50 muskets, and 10 pounds of tobacco.

Hagz

George Hook wrote: »

Just to remind everyone, the Haka is not exclusive to New Zealand. It would be helpful if those who know better stopped perpetuating the notion.

Wikipedia doesn't seem to agree with you.

melekalikimaka

Hagz wrote: »

Wikipedia doesn't seem to agree with you.

Tonga off the top of my head also has a Haka, Haka just means war dance, its not the name of their specific dance

Hagz

melekalikimaka wrote: »

Tonga off the top of my head also has a Haka, Haka just means war dance, its not the name of their specific dance

Ah, thank you. I guess someone needs to edit the wikipedia page so!

I didn't know that there were people aware of this fact, who were maintaining that only New Zealand do a war dance.

stephen_n

Thud wrote: »

It wasn't intimidating to start with so I don't think they should have been allowed to change to be intimidating to get whatever advantage they get (it psyches them up too), make they do this version again, can't see either team getting a benefit or being intimidated and it would be back on a par with a national anthem/Irelands call

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emJyEa4z2Ec

Who says it's intimidating? I have never ever heard any player say they find it intimidating. In fact I know if I stood in front of that I'd be more revved up, being challenged like that would psyche me up big time.