Fiancee doesn't seem to want to work, how to tell her it's not going to be ok?

LegacyUser

About 6 months ago my fiancee finished up a fixed term work contract and doesn't really seem to be looking for a new job, I'm getting very concerned. She hated her job & we've had a few conversations over the last few years where she told me that in an ideal world she wouldn't have to work for anyone, but would have a subsistence style lifestyle where she did something (no definite ideas on what that something would be) that earned a little money and on the side grew vegetable etc. to live off. I know she really would rather not work and if I earned enough to support us and she was doing something I respected with her day then it's something that we could look at. But I don't earn enough money to support 2 people in the expensive city we live in and she doesn't do anything during the day apart from sit online and walk our dog. She doesn't do housework, cook, grocery shop etc. during the day. Which is ok in one way because she's not my servant but in another, no, if you're at home all day then the house is your responsibility. As it would be mine if I was. I find idleness a very unattractive trait.

She's not unemployed because she doesn't have the skillset to find a job either, she's native level multilingual with a background in an industry that is hiring. It wouldn't necessarily be a very well paying job but there is work there for people with her background.

We're doing ok, just about, financially at the moment but I have wiped out my savings and am getting to a place that I am very uncomfortable with. We're living from payday to payday. I love her to pieces and she's amazing in so many ways but I know, from previous experience with a partner who didn't want to work because they were waiting for a job in the arts to land on their lap and needed to practice and be available for work in their dream field, that eventually unhappiness over a very unequal situation and a very restricted life will damage my feelings for her.

I'm not cheap but I am very funny about money because I'm scared witless about going back to living in poverty, which is what my childhood was like. How do you have that conversation with someone? I need her to understand that I am very, very happy to support us both while she looks for a new job but that that support won't last if she's not actually looking for a job. I'm happy to be the main wage earner, I'm happy to support someone else through tough times or illness, if we had kids I'd be happy to be the only income coming in because you just make that sh!t work. But, I will not be able to longterm be the only income into a household of 2 people where one person does not want to work and thinks that because my income supports a very frugal lifestyle for 2 people that they can just kick back and take it easy. I don't want to present this as a 'I will end our relationship if you don't... ' demand but I'm really very anxious about the situation at the minute.

Mr. Incognito

You should show her that in writing

retro:electro

I think you're 100% right and nothing you have said is unreasonable in the slightest. Why does she think it's okay for her to sit around all day and do nothing? It's just not on and you're not alone in finding that unbelievably unattractive. I think you've made some very good points there and you need to articulate them to her clearly.

beks101

I think you have to be just that blunt about it.

"I've noticed you don't seem overly concerned about finding work at the minute. Any particular reason why?" And then you explain to her that as much as you love her, you also want to have the best possible life together as you can and that can't be done with a single wage. It's important that she gets a job. Why would she not? It's not fair on you and it's not maintaining any kind of normal balance in your relationship.

Christ. Wouldn't we all love to sit on our aRses doing nothing and potter about with a veggie patch when we're bothered to get off the sofa. Smacks of an attitude of absolute self entitlement tbh.

pookie82

How long have you been engaged? Are you planning to marry soon? Have you set a date?

Sounds to me like she's coming from the old fashioned background of "once I marry I don't have to earn". She's toying with the idea of doing something flaky to earn some petty cash, maybe, but it sounds like she expects you to be the sole bread winner to be honest.

And on top of that she won't even run the household you're in to an acceptable extent?

You need to have a serious chat about your expectations and soon...

Neyite

Sorry OP, she is telling you clearly that this is what she wants in life. You need to listen to what she is saying. When someone tells you who they are, pay attention.

Even if you managed to persuade her to go back to work for a while, it will likely be the same pattern - she'll hate her job (and will hate all of them because she doesn't want to work), eventually quit, and mooch around until you are at your wits end and will reluctantly get a job when you've begged her enough, and the cycle will repeat itself. When you have kids, there is a perfect excuse right there. She will likely want to be a stay-at home mum. Then when the kids are finally in school, her skills will be outdated, she'll have a big CV gap and she will claim she cant find work because of that.

It would be different if she wanted to keep house and you were happy with the arrangement- but even then, an hour or two a day would be more than enough time to clean, prepare dinner and do groceries and other bits and pieces, so its still not a fair division of labour when you compare it to the hours you'll put in.

Has she ever tried to grow enough vegetables for two adults to live on? Does she know how many hours digging, weeding, sowing, in all weathers would be required? Frankly, if she cant be arsed to do dishes, then I highly doubt she'll morph into someone who jumps up at the crack of dawn to dig two ridges for potatoes. Even to earn enough to buy the land to plant a decent veg garden would be tricky enough on one income, because it would be unlikely you'd find a rental property where a landlord is happy to have a lawn dug up.

I know people who came from dire poverty and 60 years on it still affects them in little ways, I went through a very poor time for a year or two where it seemed I was always hungry and cold. I've never forgotten it. I don't think that misery ever gets forgotten. It's easy for your fiancee - if she is cold and hungry and miserable in the future, then it would become YOUR fault for not bringing home enough money. It's easy to daydream about an idealistic subsistence lifestyle when you've got the buffer of someone else to pick up the slack when you decide you want a bit of home comforts - and that is the bit I think is very unfair to you. It's a lose-lose arrangement for you - I really don't see what she is bringing to the table here - she is hazy and vague about her contribution to your partnership. It seems like a total incompatibility of values from both sides.

I know a couple who agreed from the start that it would be a one-income family, it was an arrangement they both were fully on board with. They are happy with it, but he did bear all the responsibility of income for the family and I think that it was a burden for him at times when kids and mortgages and recessions and all the other stuff life throws at you came along for them. The difference was though that he did earn enough to allow for a decent lifestyle for them all, and while they aren't flush, they have a lovely warm home, have annual holidays, kids have what they need, and are well fed and clothed. I think if they couldn't manage that, then both would have worked.

LegacyUser

Thanks for the feedback. I know I have to sit with her and talk this through. It's just such a horrible conversation because I feel like I'm putting conditions on something that should be unconditional. "Get a job or we won't last" seems so petty when you're supposed to love someone & be getting married to them. She is a great person, we're a great couple and we make each other stronger together and I don't want to damage that by making it seem like me loving her is dependent on her having an income. But at the same time she made a comment yesterday about how she needs to get her full licence so she can take the dog to the beach while I'm in work and it just stuck in my head that she plans on being at home for a while in that case.

It's probably partially my fault here because I made a big deal about how we'd pull together through this and how we'd budget and it would be fine while she was looking for a job, because we're a team and I don't think she understands that there's an end date for that. I might have made it seem like I was a lot more ok with her being out of work than I am (told her to take a little time to herself if she needed it when the contract ended and I'd happily pick up the slack financially).

So I need to tell her that I don't literally mean, I'm happy to support us both forever and that I love her unconditionally but being in a relationship with her might end up being something I cannot do because there are certain behaviours that are deal breakers for me, in any personal relationships.

@pookie82 we've been engaged since January & the plan is to get married early next year. It's a very vague plan at the moment because, as it stands, the registry office fee would be grand but any 'wedding' aspects would be a huge stretch for us. Which is an extremely weird position for me to be in because, even though I'm not loaded, I earn a decent salary.

bee06

Don't forget she's trying to put conditions on the relationship as well ... "I'm not going to work so you need to be fully responsible for all the money coming into the house". That's very unfair and not much of a partnership in my opinion.

ElizaBennett

When it comes to beginning that awkward conversation with her, OP, I think you should start with what you said in your opening post about being so scared of ending up in poverty again. Tell her that your childhood was hard financially and you are terrified of going back to that and if you guys continue as you are indefinitely then there will be no possibility of ever being 'well off' or able to afford things. I mean, are you expected to save for the wedding single handedly? Why not bring wedding plans into the discussion too? Even a small simple wedding will cost money, if you're inviting even a few people.
Even if your salary is very good - does it add up to two decent wages in total? Because that's what it's having to do and that's not workable.

You love her and you're great together except for this one thing - so come at the discussion from a personal pov and tell her of your fears. That should make her a bit more sensitive to your needs and worries. And it won't be that you're accusing her of laziness or anything. Just a discussion around your concerns for the future. Maybe ask her if her ideal scenario might be part time work and then tending to the veg and keeping house on her days off. Could that work?

Lux23

You don't have to say to her that you will break up with her if she doesn't get a job, but you can say something like the following:

My dear, I know you struggled in your last job, however it is six months since you left it and I think its time for you to get something new. We have talked about getting married next year, but this is something that I will not be able to commit to, without you in employment as I can't afford to support us both. If you don't want a job, I will have to find a cheaper place so that might mean living separately until you have a job.

Its factual rather than emotional?

castaway_lady

You're right to be seeing this as a red flag. She has inside her head got to a place of ease with not working and not planning to and you could be trying to change her personality. Have you asked yourself the question "do you love her or the person you thought she was", because it sounds like you're learning about a whopping aspect to her belief system. Those lifestyles are polar incompatible- this will limit your future, where you can go, what you can buy/do, how much peace of mind you have when you put your head on the pillow at night knowing where the money to pay the next bill will come from or you see a holiday deal advert and want to go there etc etc.

Test the water once and for all before having the haymaker conversation. Print off a dozen jobs she could apply for, sit down at the table by the computer with her and present them to her and be ready and willing to type her new cv and see what happens.............it there's a wall put up here you have to use that as the gateway to the conversation and dont sugar coat it. If you go ahead and marry her (youll obviously be paying for the wedding by yourself- she's not even motivated enough to get stuck into earning and saving for that) you will be beating yourself up about wrecking your life for the rest of your life.
I know this would be a dealbreaker for me and my OH.

pookie82

no_money_mo_problems wrote: »

@pookie82 we've been engaged since January & the plan is to get married early next year. It's a very vague plan at the moment because, as it stands, the registry office fee would be grand but any 'wedding' aspects would be a huge stretch for us. Which is an extremely weird position for me to be in because, even though I'm not loaded, I earn a decent salary.

So you're telling me there's a vague plan to get married early NEXT YEAR and she's not bringing in a penny?

I've seen a number of close friends get married recently. You can do it on a budget by all means without any fuss or frill but will she expect that? Because a typical Irish wedding, with a couple of hundred guests at a nice hotel with good food, a band, photographers, a dress, a bridal party etc. can stretch well into the thousands before you can blink. That alone would send shivers down my spine. Are you going to have to foot all of that? Any couples I know getting married are currently BOTH working over time to pay for it, on top of getting loans. And that's nothing to the next 50 years or so together.

I agree it doesn't need to be a "get a job or I'll leave you" conversation, but you do need to ask her what her long term goal is. Sit down with the sums and explain to her that you're not in a position to support the both of you in the type of lifestyle you want you both to have in the current set up.

I hate to sound cynical but she could be planning on getting pregnant as soon as you've walked down the aisle, and then she'll have years to put off going back into the workforce while you graft and stress to make ends meet single-handedly. If she envisions being a stay-at-home mother soon, you need to sit down with the maths and really see what will work. This is something every couple does, it shouldn't be a shock to her and it shouldn't turn into ultimatum territory.

Unless of course it becomes clear she never intends to work again. In which case you might not be compatible long term.

An Bhanríon

Two issues that need to be sorted out before you marry somebody - money and children!

You need to have your 'horrible conversation' with your fiancée. It may be uncomfortable, but what would be a lot more uncomfortable is getting married and ending up extremely unhappy because of your financial situation. I know marriages that have ended because of that very same thing.

It's not easy to bring these things up but, especially if you are getting married, it has to be done. I had to do it myself a few years ago about the 'children' issue. Myself and my boyfriend both wanted totally different things. We broke up for a few months. But then one of us changed our plan, we had lots of big long chats to make sure it was the right thing to do, and we are now happily married, safe in the knowledge that we are both on the same page regarding having / not having children.

Best of luck. And remember, even if the conversation doesn't go great the first time, that doesn't mean all is lost. If you love each other you will work this thing out and it will bring you closer.

Magicmatilda

But love is conditional. The only ones we love unconditonally are our children.

If she was to completely change and become someone who was nasty and constantly put you down and was horrible to everyone she came into contact with then your love would change. Or if she slept with someone else, would you still love her? That is conditional. Romantic love is conditional.

I think you need to clarify that in your head and heart.

She is taking you for a ride. She is sitting at home doing nothing while you pay and she sees no issue with that. As someone said earlier she is showing you who she is. She might get a job if you nag her but she is happy to stay at home and let you pay. A lot of women would not be comfortable with that. Does she know you have decimated your savings? What has she said about that? Because I would feel very guilty and would be trying everything to get a job if I were in her position

giggle84

Magicmatilda wrote: »

Does she know you have decimated your savings? What has she said about that?

This is the question I had too. I don't think this conversation has to be quite as dramatic as you think OP. Tell her that the two of you haven't just been living off your salary but your savings as well and they're gone now. She should realise from that that she needs to get a job and if she continues to play dumb tell her that she needs to get a job or you'll end up in debt because your salary isn't enough to support you both.

power pants

giggle84 wrote: »

This is the question I had too. I don't think this conversation has to be quite as dramatic as you think OP. Tell her that the two of you haven't just been living off your salary but your savings as well and they're gone now. She should realise from that that she needs to get a job and if she continues to play dumb tell her that she needs to get a job or you'll end up in debt because your salary isn't enough to support you both.

Tell her you will be long gone before the last line happens.

rcarroll

Jeez, where do the women find guys like you, willing to pay for everything??

Seriously though, my friend went through something similar, he added up how much it had cost him to support his leech of a girlfriend and was surprised at the amount. Although he could afford it at the time, he was severely disillusioned and disappointed when hints and helps to get her work were ignored. He realised his values, work ethic, desire to provide a stable home in the future were not shared by his partner. She used him, and that was what hurt the most...

If we give her the benefit of the doubt, maybe she's not aware of what a strain she's putting on you financially or emotionally. Have a chat, let her know you've eaten into your savings and can't financially support ye both. If she claims she's happy to live on a lower income, then advise her that you need savings for the future and can't build them/buy a home/pay for the wedding etc.

I was always brought up to work and pay my way, I find it a massive turn-off in friends and partners alike if they can't or refuse to do the same.

Dolbert

'We can't afford this wedding if you don't get a job soon.'

Her response will tell you if it's more important to her to marry you, or live off you.

IlmoNT4

That would be a big deal breaker for me. Not that she is unemployed but is clearly happy to be unemployed and isnt actively looking for work, or up-skiling or even keeping the house in order. Total turn off...

I'd have very serious concerns about this. I wouldnt care what the person did for a living as long as they were contributing in some way. What happens after you are married OP, and you start a family? How will you support a house hold then? If shes not prepared to work now, she's certainly not going to want to work after having a baby. Whos going to pay for the wedding? Either shes very naive/hasnt a clue about your finances or your being taken for a ride.

Ann84

Op I do not to offend but your ideas of love and relationships seem extremely naive for someone who is engaged to be married...
For a start, adult love and relationships absolutely is/are conditional... Conditional in all senses... As two adults, you both have wants, needs, likes and limits... Those limits are conditions... Deal breakers come in all shapes and sizes and when you are setting up a life together, you really absolutely need to discuss how you see your life together developing and both of your roles in working towards that life together.
For a start, you really need to decide that you are happy to be the sole bread winner if that is what she is suggesting... And if so, are you happy to accept a lifestyle on a certain income... There is nothing wrong with it by the way, but chances are you won't have lots of money, for mortgages, kids, travelling etc... Two incomes means sacrifices also but it depends on the lifestyles you both want together.
I am engaged and my fiancé and myself have discussed our future plans a lot, our expectations, our wants and needs and if he turned around and decided to quit his job and decided working wasn't for him.. Our relationship would be in serious jeopardy, that doesn't mean I don't love him, but he wouldn't be the person I am commuting to marry...

You need to think about what you want from life and a marriage, this is serious, it's a legal contract and you need to take it more seriously than I think you are...

Love is lovely but a marriage (in my opinion) is not just love, it's respect for your partner, consideration of their wants and needs in line with your own, working together as a team to raise a family (if that's what you want) and plenty more... But it's certainly not unconditional!

ivytwine

OP like yourself I am a bit funny about money, because, like yourself, I have grown up without any.

I'm a woman and I could not in all conscience imagine living off a partner like that. I don't even like the idea of having a joint account! Financial independence is very, very important to me, and I completely understand why you're freaking out about your savings being wiped.

I expect you probably feel a bit guilty about being annoyed about her not doing any housework, but you've a legitimate right to in this case. She's doing nothing all day. It's not as if she's searching for jobs. Not fair on you to pay for everything, work full time and then be expected to keep the house clean.

Are you expected to fork out for the wedding? Or even the 80 quid for her to take her driving licence?

You need to have a serious talk with her. You need to fill her in what poverty is like.

LegacyUser

To me a long term relationship or marriage require both give and take. If your doing all the giving and she is doing all the taking - as in this case no wonder you feel the way you do.

The reality your girlfriend sounds very selfish. At the moment your working full time and meanwhile she is making no effort to find a job. At this stage I would tell her that you have no savings left to pay for a wedding and that your salary can't pay the bills and to save for a wedding.

See what she says or how she reacts when you tell her this. If she says she will look for a job ask to see the emails, applications ect she is doing. Ask her about the interviews she is going to. My feeling is that she is quite happy at the moment being unemployed when your paying all the bills. Along with this she could tell you she is looking for work but she could be making no effort to do this at all.

At this stage I would say to her that unless she gets a job you can't afford to support her on your salary as you need to build up your savings again. The reality is that would be a red flag to me. As a couple you need to be able to talk about money and the future. You both need to be working to afford your wedding, a home and children.
No one like a leech. I would advise you that unless your girlfriend gets work to end things with her because long term I don't think you will have a happy marriage when your always worrying about money.

Aseth

I think OP it will be much easier to show your partner what impact her unemployment has on your relationship. You don't have to break up with her. Instead introduce 'budget cuts' - if you're eating out a few times a month limit it to one or two, since you're paying for her clothes give her half the money you usually do, etc. I think it will serve as an eye opener.

LegacyUser

You sound like a really decent person, and I can understand your dilemma: you love her, and you don't want to not be supportive, but things can't continue long term the way they are now. As others have said, what is she contributing? And her contribution doesn't necessarily have to be financial - but she's not putting money or work into maintaining your lifestyle or home. That's just not right.

Love isn't unconditional; if she suddenly changed to being into drugs / cheating / bullying you, would you stay with her? Extreme examples, but the situation you find yourself in is also deserving of an eagle-eyed look at your future. Could you put up with this being a long term behaviour on her part that you could accept? I couldn't.

It's also incredibly selfish on her part. Sure we'd all love to be funded to not have to up for work each day, and fart around with some alleged idea of Bohemia. But reality means that we don't do that. Not to mention that walking a dog and doing sod all else all day isn't exactly productive or life enhancing on any level.

In her defence, have you expressed any level of unhappiness at all with the current scenario? Although even if you haven't, I'd be a bit shocked that she is sponging off you this long. The only other factor I can think of is that she was bullied in her last job, or is depressed. But both scenarios need her to address those situations and sort herself out.

As things stand, you are carrying her as though she's a child and your the adult. That's not fair on you, and is pretty dysfunctional tbh. You really need to talk to her. Maybe she's in a funk and will cop on. If this is a real pattern tho, re not liking any job or not wanting to work, I think you should leave her.

osarusan

OP, from my perspective, everything you have said sounds rational and fair.

I do not think you need to be worried that you are doing something wrong and introducing conditions into something that should be unconditional.

We go into a relationship with expectations - reasonable expectations, hopefully.

The idea that a partner would find work so that savings aren't maxed out and financial troubles are avoided is a perfectly reasonable expectation - you don't need to feel guilty about thinking there is something wrong with the situation.

Sit down with her and talk about how you (both, as a unit) are struggling financially, and you want to look for ways to overcome this.

LegacyUser

Op I think its crazy that she's sitting at home doing nothing all day while you are working to keep a roof over your heads. She wants to be a kept women well that would be fine if you were super rich but seriously I can't believe that she wouldn't be doing something around the house as well if she's at home.
Relationships are a two way street, there has to be some give from her as well, I'm not saying she should be your servant but if one person is in a stay at home role then why are they not doing the chores and stuff that need doing around the house, like the cooking, cleaning etc.
I mean its a bit crazy to expect you to come home and do all the chores around the house as well as doing a full days work!
As for depleting your savings why did you do this? What would happen if you had kids together? or if you got sick and had to rely on social welfare ?

LegacyUser

Hi all - again, thanks for all the objective feedback. I hugely appreciate having had so many outside eyes on this.

We had a talk last night and it was horrible, as expected, but it was a good kind of horrible if that makes any sense. I started with the basics, our rent is just under half my take home pay (extremely expensive city, we have a comparatively affordable house for the area we're in but it's still a very large expense) and it's not manageable to continue on living where we are if I am the only income. That it would be a max of another month or so and we would have to consider our options. And that it wasn't that I couldn't keep paying for all of our expenses and living like a hermit but that I didn't want to & wouldn't be doing that anymore.

We spoke about the fact that she hasn't been looking for work and she had a few reasons behind that, basically that she has 'sort of' been looking but being very particular because she is anxious about having to work in an office again because she hates that environment and that she only wants a job in her particular industry if she can get it at a certain (unfortunately very unlikely) salary level to make being miserable worth her while. She felt that I hadn't been clear enough about what I meant when I said to take some time for herself. She didn't seem to realise that it was pushing 6 months since she had finished work, she spoke about it like it was much more recent. She also said that she would, without hesitation, do the same for me.

Anyway, we got to the point where she understood that she has to, for both our sakes, find a job that covers some of our expenses. She's not very happy about it or very enthused about it. We didn't get into the housework end of things because I felt like I'd gone on the attack enough and I didn't want to give her the impression that it would be ok for her not to work as long as she kept the house.

I love her but after hours of talking things through it seems like she doesn't really see much wrong with what she's been doing, it's more that that she's not suited for a 'normal working office' and that she feels like we could live on one income if we tried. I actually don't know what's going to happen with us to be very honest because I feel like we both see each other very differently at the moment than we did a day ago or a few months ago. I know for certain that we can't get married at the moment, it wouldn't be the right choice for either of us. So, will give it a while and see how she moves this forward, I don't want a frugal minimalist life. We both have a lot of thinking & talking to do.

Again, thanks for your feedback. It's very much helped.

iusedtoknow

Does she know the ins and outs of your weekly/monthly budget. Does she know how much is coming in vs how much is going out? Does she know how much you have decimated your savings to continue to support her? Does she know about your past and how it affects your present?

If she knows any of the above and doesn't care...then move on ASAP and count your losses. If she doesn't know any of the above, then you have to talk to her and go from there. If she doesn't do anything to help the situation, then move on.

While her aims of living a subsistence lifestyle are idealistic (and unrealistic) she doesn't seem to be living in reality that is living in an expensive city and is probably going through life unaware of how much things actually cost, and that someone, somewhere has to take up the financial slack.

Every month (or however often you get paid) you need to sit down together to do a budget- top line is income, everything else is outgoing. It will soon be clear to her that there needs to be two top lines, especially when she knows about your savings.

LegacyUser

Op I don't think you are any nearer to sorting out your problem after your chat.
She seems completely oblivious to the situation regarding your finances and the fact that she thinks it ok for you to slave away all day and then come home and do chores is a bit nuts.
Before she lost her job were you doing everything around the house as well or did she help out at all? If you didn't cook dinner/buy food and do stuff around the house what would happen?

kylith

I'd recommend saying straight out "How is the job hunt going? I cannot afford to support both of us past [date]. After that I won't be able to pay the bills and we'll be evicted/electricity cut off/internet cut off".

power pants

Id say the majority of people dont like their job or want more money but being an adult they carry on.

If everyone had the same attitude as your other half, would anybody actually bother working?

If it was me in that situation after the talk last night, I would have made my mind up by now. If you carry on , you will end up resenting her anyway. What's the point in working when you have nothing to show for it as you are funding someone who is happy to sponge.

Nice of her to say she would do the same for you, but alas she cant as she doesnt like working.