How do readers feel about series catching up with books?

TheIrishGrover

I must admit I'm pretty p1ssed. I've been reading them as they came out from book 2. While it was always going to happen I think this is going to be the end of Martin finishing the books (Apart from WoW).

The focus won't be there for him to finish the books within any kind of timeframe. Plus, while there will be large differences between the series and the books, the general direction and the final outcome will be the same. I know Martin has given (Pretty obvious and vague) hints about what happens.

But here's the thing. IF he does manage to finish the books it's going to be at least another 7-9 years before he finishes them. Do you want to wait 7-9 years to read about what you saw 5-7 years beforehand or will you have lost interest?

Nody

Honestly seeing how much the series have started to divide away from the books I don't really see the tv series & the books really having much in common in the end and I'll happily read the book as they come. My main worry is that he'll die before he'll finish and we'll end up with a butched version to wrap it all up

MrWalsh

It was announced last week that the next book will be out before Season 6 airs so there will be plenty of material to get through before we see the next season.

http://www.vinereport.com/article/winds.of.winter.release.date.george.rr.martin.will.blow.it.towards.bookshelves.sooner.than.the.tv.series.season.6/604.htm

Im not pushed anyway, the books and series have diverged so much as to be different creatures anyway so it doesnt bother me that one gets ahead of the other.

Mormegil

MrWalsh wrote: »

It was announced last week that the next book will be out before Season 6 airs

Martin saying he plans to have the book out before Season 6 and the Book coming out before season 6 are two very different things.


I've been reading these books for 15 years and I'd love to read Book 6 before Season 6 but I want a lot more proof than Martin saying he hopes to do it before believing it's going to happen.

TheIrishGrover

MrWalsh wrote: »

It was announced last week that the next book will be out before Season 6 airs so there will be plenty of material to get through before we see the next season.

http://www.vinereport.com/article/winds.of.winter.release.date.george.rr.martin.will.blow.it.towards.bookshelves.sooner.than.the.tv.series.season.6/604.htm

Im not pushed anyway, the books and series have diverged so much as to be different creatures anyway so it doesnt bother me that one gets ahead of the other.

MrWalsh

Me too but thought I'd share it, I'm an optimist!

bopper

The sixth season is supposed to start filming next month, so regardless of when the sixth book is out, the two could still end up being very different. The writers are still working off a conversation with GRRM and their own ideas, and not the actual source material.

December2012

I watched the show before I read the books, but I Love Love Love LOVE the books. As fantastic as the TV show is, I don't regularly rewatch the shows - I do re read the books.

I take grrrms point that they are two interpretations of the same story, so I welcome some diversions (Hardhome being an example!)but I miss lots of book elements, like Griff, Arianne and LSH. Oh and Jamie in the Riverlands!

So I'm happy enough for a different version of the story to come out before the genuine story. But I would love for Winds of Winter to come out soon.

Digital Solitude

December2012 wrote: »

I watched the show before I read the books, but I Love Love Love LOVE the books. As fantastic as the TV show is, I don't regularly rewatch the shows - I do re read the books.

I take grrrms point that they are two interpretations of the same story, so I welcome some diversions (Hardhome being an example!)but I miss lots of book elements, like Griff, Arianne and LSH. Oh and Jamie in the Riverlands!

So I'm happy enough for a different version of the story to come out before the genuine story. But I would love for Winds of Winter to come out soon.

How fast can you read :pac:

RoryMac

bopper wrote: »

The sixth season is supposed to start filming next month, so regardless of when the sixth book is out, the two could still end up being very different. The writers are still working off a conversation with GRRM and their own ideas, and not the actual source material.

The writers of the show are working off a lot more than "a conversation with GRRM". The two may end up very differently but not because the writers are in the dark about the conclusions to the different plotlines.

December2012

Digital Solitude wrote: »

How fast can you read :pac:

Well, I was out of work at the time. Now I listen to book podcasts. 😎

bopper

RoryMac wrote: »

The writers of the show are working off a lot more than "a conversation with GRRM". The two may end up very differently but not because the writers are in the dark about the conclusions to the different plotlines.

I never said they were in the dark about any conclusions.

Mickeroo

I'm delighted the show is pushing on ahead tbh, I'm liking not knowing what's going to happen next and there's so much differences between the two now I'll still be able to enjoy the future books regardless of knowing the general outcome. I also think the show will benefit from not having to be scrutinised over differences to the book so much.

MrWalsh

Mickeroo wrote: »

I'm delighted the show is pushing on ahead tbh, I'm liking not knowing what's going to happen next and there's so much differences between the two now I'll still be able to enjoy the future books regardless of knowing the general outcome. I also think the show will benefit from not having to be scrutinised over differences to the book so much.

I also think itll be interesting to see how much people prefer the show storyline over the books storyline when the show is the first to deliver.

Taboola

I'm happy it's moving on and I'm looking forward to seeing how it progresses. I doubt GRRM will have the books finished before the next season.

Hans Bricks

Going by the potential storylines and plots for WOW, I hope that DB & W have been kept up to speed with the book on everything completed thus far.

froog

i watched the show first and loved it. read all the available books between season 1 and 2. by then i really wanted to finish the story with the books so a bit disappointed really, but the show is awesome so i'm good with that.

have to say though, martin has only himself to blame. when he sold the rights to the tv show he had 9 years to finish the series but seems to have spent his time enjoying all the fame and getting as much of his other stuff out as he can. still, it's his baby so he can do what the **** he wants i suppose.

TheIrishGrover

You hear that a lot: "It's their movie/series/whatever. Let them do what they want with it" and this is obviously true.... But there is also a responsibility to the people who bought those items, who raised their profile and kept them in the (Albeit niche) limelight initially, who told their friends to buy them, who made these people very wealthy. One cannot simply abandon the fans who made them a lot of money initially or milk them with endless tweaks and side projects knowing that they'll come running back with their money for whatever tidbit you throw them *cough-Lucas-cough*. It's mistreatment of their fans. I'm not saying that Martin does not own the books and that he should be chained to a chair to finish the books for ME but I and many others have been reading the books now for 15 years. 15 YEARS!!!! I enjoy the books and the series immensely but I can't help feeling pissed that it is now looking more and more likely that he himself will never finish the books and that the books we will get (Last two probably ghost written - No pun intended) will owe more to the series than the initial intent of the books. Why bother waiting 8-10 years for a book version, written by a hired hand, of something you saw 7-8 years ago?

Digital Solitude

5 books to the scope of ASOIAF in 15 years ain't bad I think, especially seeing as its not his only project that he works on.

I'd rather he takes his sweet time and writes the books exactly how he wants to at his own pace. He's got enough money to do what he wants for the rest of his life, and if he's as close to death as everyone makes him out to be he hasn't got long to not give a **** about abandoning the series with no qualms.

I was a bit disappointed when I heard he's trying to finish WoW before Season 6 comes out, while the brunt of it is finished and yes probably just tidying up and making adjustments to his final edits, it still made me feel as if he was rushing it.

Given his artistic talent, I don't think anyone has the right to ask him to hurry along with his own series.

Mormegil

TheIrishGrover wrote: »

Why bother waiting 8-10 years for a book version of something you saw 7-8 years ago written by a hired hand?

I would hope that come Season 7 (or 8 if we get it) that GRRM will be back on writing duties for the show and that he gets at least a joint credit on the last few episodes.



We probably will have book six out before the show ends but no way will GRRM have book seven out so at least this way people can see a GRRM written ending to the story within the next few years.

Eugene Norman

He should come back on the show as a consultant and when the series is ended, write or help to write the final books.

As long as the main ideas are what he wanted all along I don't care, like a lot of writers with great vast ideas of other worlds the story is more important than the writing style. Not that he's a a bad writer.

mirrorwall14

Still refusing to watch the show or read the books until they are finished. Been burned by shows before and the time gap is really long on the books!

Iwasfrozen

TheIrishGrover wrote: »

You hear that a lot: "It's their movie/series/whatever. Let them do what they want with it" and this is obviously true.... But there is also a responsibility to the people who bought those items, who raised their profile and kept them in the (Albeit niche) limelight initially, who told their friends to buy them, who made these people very wealthy. One cannot simply abandon the fans who made them a lot of money initially or milk them with endless tweaks and side projects knowing that they'll come running back with their money for whatever tidbit you throw them *cough-Lucas-cough*. It's mistreatment of their fans. I'm not saying that Martin does not own the books and that he should be chained to a chair to finish the books for ME but I and many others have been reading the books now for 15 years. 15 YEARS!!!! I enjoy the books and the series immensely but I can't help feeling pissed that it is now looking more and more likely that he himself will never finish the books and that the books we will get (Last two probably ghost written - No pun intended) will owe more to the series than the initial intent of the books. Why bother waiting 8-10 years for a book version, written by a hired hand, of something you saw 7-8 years ago?

Artists are tricky people and ASOIAF is a piece of art. Give it time.

MrWalsh

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Artists are tricky people and ASOIAF is a piece of art. Give it time.

Interesting concept, if you add up all the money that has been made off the books and the show is it be more than the most expensive piece of art ever sold?

Google tells me "Pablo Picasso's Nude, Green Leaves and Bust, a painting created in the span of a single day in 1932, for $106.5 million dollars" was the most expensive piece ever sold.

Sleepy

Nice thought concept but I'm guessing Harry Potter eclipses ASOIAF in terms of revenue.

MrWalsh

Sleepy wrote: »

Nice thought concept but I'm guessing Harry Potter eclipses ASOIAF in terms of revenue.

Of course. Its very difficult to gauge these things anyway when you take into account how much it costs to make the film or tv show and then the future revenue from DVD sales and reruns etc... I just dont know enough about it. But considering GRRM is worth about 65 million dollars and JK Rowling is worth about 1 billion dollars I think Harry Potter is doing very well!

Course Lord of the Rings is still selling books too!

fitz

Digital Solitude wrote: »

5 books to the scope of ASOIAF in 15 years ain't bad I think, especially seeing as its not his only project that he works on.

Steven Erikson put out a book a year for 10 years with his Malazan Book of the Fallen series, which was way more complex, broader in scope, better written and infinitely more ruthless than ASOIAF. If you haven't read it, do...makes George look like a kind uncle to his characters. They're easily the same length/longer books than ASOIAF too.

Martin lost focus and let himself get bogged down in books 4/5 much the same way that Robert Jordan did after the first 6 books of the Wheel of Time series. Did the time he spends with conventions, editing other books, etc. increase around the same time, or was it just the writing that slowed down? Who knows. It's his prerogative to do what he wants with his time, but I feel, like Jordan, he needs a stronger editor, or someone who can give him a kick in the arse. As Neil Gaiman said, GRRM is not our b*tch, but fans aside, I think if he wanted, he could write quicker. He's shown he can with the first three books. As with Jordan, when he expanded the plot-lines and characters out, it started to become unwieldy, and things slowed down to accommodate complexity that doesn't really move the story along.

I really hope Martin finishes the series.
It's not beyond the pale that what happened with Jordan will happen again, and George has said that if he croaks, there won't be anyone else finishing the series.

Digital Solitude

I was looking at the Mazlan book of the Fallen earlier actually! Pretty much defeats my points anyways

Is there a lynch mob against GRRM I can join now? :pac:

Generic Dreadhead

I'm glad personally.
I'd rather see it progress in approx 30 more hours over 3 years as opposed to ~6,000 pages in 3 books over 15 years.

Something something "pacemaker" joke that incorporates the books pacing and him getting so old by the time it's done

wrt40

at this stage I'm really confused over what the differences are between the books and the series, when it comes to reading the next book I'm going to need some sort of summary of what's happened so far otherwise it's going to be a confusing and not so pleasant read. Anyone know if such a summary thing exists? And no, I'm not going to reread them!

Digital Solitude

Wikipedia? Or the wikias have plot synopsis for each book

wrt40

Digital Solitude wrote: »

Wikipedia? Or the wikias have plot synopsis for each book

Thanks, wikias outline the differences:

http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Differences_between_books_and_TV_series

ixoy

fitz wrote: »

Steven Erikson put out a book a year for 10 years with his Malazan Book of the Fallen series, which was way more complex, broader in scope, better written and infinitely more ruthless than ASOIAF. If you haven't read it, do...makes George look like a kind uncle to his characters. They're easily the same length/longer books than ASOIAF too.

This. The difference also is that Erikson planned his books. He's an "architect" when it comes to his books where GRRM describes himself as a "gardener" who lets his plots and characters grow with less constraint but then finds it difficult to reign in. Perfect example is the likes of the Meereenese knot where GRRM wrote himself into a bit of a corner.

Frankly, it doesn't bother me all as a result. I'm not hugely optimistic then if he's taking so long that he's going to produce something great. I wasn't over-awed by the fourth or fifth books so my interest is waning to an extent, especially when I've read a large number of other series in between (many of which have published entire series in the same time frame - the output of say Daniel Abraham or Brandon Sanderson versus GRRM is amusing). Maybe it'll pick up but I don't see the series as an amazing, stellar piece as I once did.

KaiserGunner

fitz wrote: »

Steven Erikson put out a book a year for 10 years with his Malazan Book of the Fallen series, which was way more complex, broader in scope, better written and infinitely more ruthless than ASOIAF. If you haven't read it, do...makes George look like a kind uncle to his characters. They're easily the same length/longer books than ASOIAF too.

Martin lost focus and let himself get bogged down in books 4/5 much the same way that Robert Jordan did after the first 6 books of the Wheel of Time series. Did the time he spends with conventions, editing other books, etc. increase around the same time, or was it just the writing that slowed down? Who knows. It's his prerogative to do what he wants with his time, but I feel, like Jordan, he needs a stronger editor, or someone who can give him a kick in the arse. As Neil Gaiman said, GRRM is not our b*tch, but fans aside, I think if he wanted, he could write quicker. He's shown he can with the first three books. As with Jordan, when he expanded the plot-lines and characters out, it started to become unwieldy, and things slowed down to accommodate complexity that doesn't really move the story along.

I really hope Martin finishes the series.
It's not beyond the pale that what happened with Jordan will happen again, and George has said that if he croaks, there won't be anyone else finishing the series.

Thanks, not a big book reader by any means but just finished the 5 ASOIAF books recently and was looking for another fantasy saga to read to tie me over till the winds of winter. Just bought the first Malazan book of the fallen book, looking forward to this now.

GerB40

KaiserGunner wrote: »

Thanks, not a big book reader by any means but just finished the 5 ASOIAF books recently and was looking for another fantasy saga to read to tie me over till the winds of winter. Just bought the first Malazan book of the fallen book, looking forward to this now.

Stephen King's "The Dark Tower" series is also very good. It's not a fraction as complex as ASoIaF which makes for a nice change, just proper Kingesque fare.

Mickeroo

I read the Gunslinger a few months ago, it was good but didn't leave me dying to read the next one. I have the first Malazan book sitting on my kindle, looking forward to it, though my gf is on the third one at the moment and said it's gone downhill since the first book (there's no guarantee I'll agree with her though :P).

fitz

Malazan drops you in to story without much expositionary explanations, can take a while to adjust to having to figure out what things mean. Great first book, second one is a little slow in the first half, but brilliant end. He tends to spiral a load of story arcs together over the course of each book. stick with it, it's a hugely rewarding read.

GhostInTheRuins

wrt40 wrote: »

at this stage I'm really confused over what the differences are between the books and the series, when it comes to reading the next book I'm going to need some sort of summary of what's happened so far otherwise it's going to be a confusing and not so pleasant read. Anyone know if such a summary thing exists? And no, I'm not going to reread them!

Here's the best summaries that I know of. Book by book, chapter by chapter, character by character. http://towerofthehand.com/books/guide.html

I'm the same way, it's been years since I've read the books and now for some characters I've completely forgotten or confused their book storyline with their show storyline.

Oranage2

Actually I'm regretting watching it, I really hope the books are very different.

Washington Irving

While I enjoy the show for what it is, or at least I did before this season, I do regret it. Not through spoilers or anything like that, but rather through how I feel it has been butchered for the most part. Saying that, it really would have been unavoidable in my social circles and online haunts.

In a massively selfish way, I'd have preferred an alternative world where the TV show never came into being in the first place. I'll still keep watching now that I've come this far, but I reserve the right to bitch and moan when I do :pac:

Witcher

Doesn't matter a bit to me, if anything I enjoy it:pac: watching people lose their mind because of some minor difference or the show spoilering something from the unreleased books is hilarious, definitely helps me pass the time until Winds :pac: The tears spilled on a single forum page on Westeros.org could fill a bucket. Posters over there went off the rails last night because Jon didn't say 'Ghost' despite him not saying it in the books either:pac: Actually, just checked and he does say 'Ghost' in the books..

froog

Strider wrote: »

Doesn't matter a bit to me, if anything I enjoy it:pac: watching people lose their mind because of some minor difference or the show spoilering something from the unreleased books is hilarious, definitely helps me pass the time until Winds :pac: The tears spilled on a single forum page on Westeros.org could fill a bucket. Posters over there went off the rails last night because Jon didn't say 'Ghost' despite him not saying it in the books either:pac:

lol yeah those guys really know how to overreact. the meltdowns over the sansa storyline were some of the worst i've ever seen on the internet. until last week's final scene with stannis of course.