Zero Grazing is it the way Forward for Finishing Cattle?

Pacoa

Have yee seen this?
What do yee make of his claims?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aK1QMlBHmM

Farmer

Three times more efficient, he says. Scrap the suckler genomics programme, save the planet, and buy every man a zero grazer:)

I have no doubt that there's a place for it, perhaps not on a wet slippery hill in the north west, but 80 cattle on 20 acres sounds great

yellow50HX

It's like the robot for milking. It has a place in certain operations. Good paddocks and good farmland management and stock grazing is a much cheaper option. However not all farms can have the required set up, espically if it's fragmented. That said I know lads that finish cattle indoors in summer feeding silage and meal. Take in the cost of making and feeding the silage and I'd say it's not much different to zero grazing.

onyerbikepat

I'd say there's a place for those finishing big bulls indoors. The type that would be difficult to manage outdoors. But when you factor in the cost of the extra labour, diesel, wear and tear of machinery, soil compaction for both cutting the grass and also for the slurry, you'd have to wonder why not just open the gate and just let them off like mother nature intended.;)

Farmer

Soil compaction and poaching by the cattle was one of the reasons cited for going this way.

600kg spread out over 4 small hooves ploughing round all day in the wet thrashes a single run with a wide twin axle once every 4 - 6 weeks

keep going

There must be more in cattle than cows to pay for all that,as they "if a man 7s happy at it what about it

Farmer Pudsey

What is the price of a zero grazer. Biggest issue is labour and machinery costs. You would also need your own slurry spreader and a goodish tractor. On good land you would have near enough the same silage costs. As well you would need to water down the slurry. Mains water is slightly over 2 euro/cubic meter (1K litres) If watering down slurry by 30% it works out at 3 euro/1000 gallons. If 50% it is 5 euro/1000 gallons. You would need cheap water.

yellow50HX

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

What is the price of a zero grazer. Biggest issue is labour and machinery costs. You would also need your own slurry spreader and a goodish tractor. On good land you would have near enough the same silage costs. As well you would need to water down the slurry. Mains water is slightly over 2 euro/cubic meter (1K litres) If watering down slurry by 30% it works out at 3 euro/1000 gallons. If 50% it is 5 euro/1000 gallons. You would need cheap water.

Rain water, no shortage of in this country. Just turn the shoot into the tank when needed.

Sam Kade

They say you grow 30% more grass with the zero grazer but that man says one acre grazing is the same as 3 acres zero grazing, there's someone telling lies

_Brian

Sam Kade wrote: »

They say you grow 30% more grass with the zero grazer but that man says one acre grazing is the same as 3 acres zero grazing, there's someone telling lies

I think he was saying that the zero gives twice and then the other third is saved by not having cattle trampling and dirtying the grass by being out on it.

Farmer Pudsey

yellow50HX wrote: »

Rain water, no shortage of in this country. Just turn the shoot into the tank when needed.

Would have been grand this May but April very little rain to turn into sheds. I have silage slab turned into tank every 25mm off slab will be about 100mm in tank. But you would need more than this for summer. I imagine that uou need to dilute 50% Finishing cattle would be producing 500 litres of slurry/week. so you would need 500 litres of water. Finishing cattle need 3M squared so from my slab I need 42mm/week to dilute slurry week in week out through out the year. You would be lucky to hit 30% of that. You would need more than our average rainfall for the year falling on my slab from mid April to Mid October to have enough water to dilute the slurry.

blue5000

Why not throw more money at the system and put an aeration agitation pipeline in the bottom of the tank?

onyerbikepat

Farmer wrote: »

Soil compaction and poaching by the cattle was one of the reasons cited for going this way.

600kg spread out over 4 small hooves ploughing round all day in the wet thrashes a single run with a wide twin axle once every 4 - 6 weeks

Compaction from machinery, even with wide low pressure tyres, is far worst than from cattle. Even though the ground pressure may be lower, the compaction zone goes lower with the increased contact area and higher loads of the machinery.

joejobrien

Just some points.
Slurry straight from the tanks that fill by stock been zero grazed require little or no adgation.
Higher performance from this slurry.
adquate rain in most places...Mid west Regionanyway.
It is more costly than grazed grass but alot less than concentrate. Costs includes all of the above mentioned costs.
Labour is everyday!!, AT least if grazing you can walk out at your convience , but it becomes a constant chore.
Weather watching is also a factor, especially on heavy ground.
Need to be machinery savvy.
Suitable for fragemented holdings.
Land in video appears very dry, note stone walls. poaching should not be an issue.
Soil compaction could become a problem, likewise with poaching Most dont recognise it!!
New machines start from 27k up to around 50k
Also silage vs grass. on D VALUE alone preformance will be higher.no contest

tomieen jones

We would be busy fool's with the extra costs and expense there would be nothing extra or of it only a few shiny machines in the yard

White Clover

Does anyone here practice zero grazing ?

farm14

It definitely has its benefits. What is the utilisation % with zero grazing compared to the stock grazing it?

Base price

Interesting video. I have to agree with what the man said about cattle stomachs having to adjust to a different indoor feeding regime be it silage/straw & high concentrate feed. That adjustment period is lost in daily weight gain.
I think that the system has its merits on the right type of land. I wonder how he is coping during this wet spell. Nothing worse than seeing a nice grass field ploughed up by tractor/trailer tyres.

darragh_haven

farm14 wrote: »

It definitely has its benefits. What is the utilisation % with zero grazing compared to the stock grazing it?

Zero grazing grass utilisation is 85 to 90%. Stock grazing is 60 to 65%

Bullocks

Hard to believe someone that has absolutely no bad points -the cattle are doing awful awful well ! No doubt it has benefits over grazing but I wouldn't fancy it every day either .
There was no shortage of money in that yard , did I see 2 fairly new Land cruisers and the finest of sheds

ellewood

darragh_haven wrote: »

Zero grazing grass utilisation is 85 to 90%. Stock grazing is 60 to 65%

Would grazing not be 75 80 % with
Good rotational grazing ?

Sam Kade

Bullocks wrote: »

Hard to believe someone that has absolutely no bad points -the cattle are doing awful awful well ! No doubt it has benefits over grazing but I wouldn't fancy it every day either .
There was no shortage of money in that yard , did I see 2 fairly new Land cruisers and the finest of sheds

Indeed he must have either won the lotto or got a nice inheritance as there is no way you could fund new sheds and machinery from 80 cattle. If they were doing as bad as he says when grazing his profit wasn't too great.

_Brian

Lads with big SFP in action.



(Runs for the drumlins)

ganmo

_Brian wrote: »

Lads with big SFP in action.



(Runs for the drumlins)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZlDZPYzfm4

Farmer Pudsey

_Brian wrote: »

Lads with big SFP in action.



(Runs for the drumlins)

I didn't say it:rolleyes:

bogman_bass

There is no doubt that there is potential for higher production but higher production doesn't always mean higher profits

Timmaay

bogman_bass wrote: »

There is no doubt that there is potential for higher production but higher production doesn't always mean higher profits

Higher production leading to higher losses would be the ultimate fear. In my view the harsh reality is if it doesn't make sense in dairying then I cannot see how it would pay for a lower margin game like finishing. In the sums you need to factor in lifetime machine costs, extra labour, slurry etc etc, and ultimately it totally breaks the golden rule of keep it simple stupid.

_Brian

Deleted

Milked out

Unless the land is fragmented I see no reason for it

frazzledhome

This guy got a discounted machine for doing promotional video. He does however make some good points about utilisation but other than that can't see benefits

Baling every 5 weeks and feeding would be better IMV if he doesn't want to let out. Lovely tidy setup though

kowtow

darragh_haven wrote: »

Zero grazing grass utilisation is 85 to 90%. Stock grazing is 60 to 65%

That's always one of the key points put forward by advocates and on the face of it it makes absolute sense - provided I suppose that the grass is drawn in small enough loads and fed out at a generous enough barrier so that there is no waste in the yard.

Interestingly when you look at supposedly objective comparisons I'm not sure credit is given for the utilisation % -

I'd love to see a sensible discussion of c / kg dm grazed, zero grazed & silage which concentrated on figures rather than descending into a graze or no graze argument.

onyerbikepat

We've land a mile away from the home place. It drives me mad having to load cattle into a trailer and bring them there compared to just opening a gate and letting them in. I'd hate to be drawing grass the other way. I give up If I had to.

kevthegaff

I think the idea has merit thats if he does contracting for local farmers or has a large number of cattle. Smells of high sfp, hiding behind my rushes:-D

darragh_haven

ellewood wrote: »

Would grazing not be 75 80 % with
Good rotational grazing ?

Figure I got of teagasc website a few months back. You won't get God clean out more than half the time in reality

kowtow

I think there was a Northern Ireland cost comparison a few years ago which was a bit less biased toward grazed grass all the time - and realistically few people would zero graze paddocks which were in good nick and adjacent enough for cows to graze themselves unless there were special circumstances.

The real cost / performance comparison is probably not between grazed grass and zero grazed but between silage and zero grazed. For those intensively stocked and buffering, particularly at the shoulders, would bales not be as cost effective as ZG?

frazzledhome

kowtow wrote: »

I think there was a Northern Ireland cost comparison a few years ago which was a bit less biased toward grazed grass all the time - and realistically few people would zero graze paddocks which were in good nick and adjacent enough for cows to graze themselves unless there were special circumstances.

The real cost / performance comparison is probably not between grazed grass and zero grazed but between silage and zero grazed. For those intensively stocked and buffering, particularly at the shoulders, would bales not be as cost effective as ZG?

Bales are costing 15c/kg inc land charge. Having the zgrazing tee shirt since the early 90's I'd go bales every time.

I can think of few circumstances where zgrazer wins. I hated every day of it and it was almost daily during grazing season here from 1990- 96.

Unfortunately guys love kit, they say they don't but boys love toys. When you go to price or look at one of these machines you're already there its only price and a salesman needed to get you across the line.

My next neighbour is considering one and no amount of persuading will move him. Met him yesterday and now he's talking of a new tractor to operate it.

The best sales line I heard was that he'd grow 33% more grass so I asked him to ask sales guy how much more in tonnes, that's where he got stuck for words. This guy would be growing 12-14 tonnes already and doesn't even know it. Sales guy hasn't a clue either but any thinking person couldn't accept that a zgrazer will grow 3-4 extra tonnes.

A zgrazer grows no tonnes at all, simple its just a way of carting grass to animals that put the operator into a hamster wheel. The same grass can be brought to the yard 3 times in the summer in ye form of bales by a contractor for 15-16c/kg inc land and fed as required.

danjoe

Would Zg have a place in feeding cattle or cows grass from February onwards until weather improves to get animals out to grass full-time.

Timmaay

danjoe wrote: »

Would Zg have a place in feeding cattle or cows grass from February onwards until weather improves to get animals out to grass full-time.

In terms of cows, you'd get much more bang for buck by matching your calving date to grass turnout, also cows can be let out for 2/3 hrs a day, when they will consume a large amount of grass with minimum of poaching, other tricks like strip grazing, backing fences etc. All of theses probably end up taking as much time as just ZG, but at least without the capital or running costs needed.

kevthegaff

Sunday the tractotis parked up, id hate to be carting around silage 7 days per week, i have enough slurry to be spreading also. Not a runner in my system, but maybe for guys with fragmented acres. Frazz is bang on the money, see the diff here between local d farmers, the guys that invest in cows/land and the guys who love theyre machinery. Salesmen will tell you ye look good in the mirror!

kowtow

frazzledhome wrote: »

The same grass can be brought to the yard 3 times in the summer in ye form of bales by a contractor for 15-16c/kg inc land and fed as required.

I thought that might well be the case in practice, and difficult to argue that ZG has better utilisation than a mower used 3 times a year on the same ground?

In my case I will confess to a nagging interest in ZG regardless of all that, but only because I am toying with avoiding silage, particularly in the cheese making season.

So what I really need is a zero grazer set up to feed a solar powered hay drier

kowtow

frazzledhome wrote: »

I can think of few circumstances where zgrazer wins. I hated every day of it and it was almost daily during grazing season here from 1990- 96.

I'm sure you have told us before frazz (in which case apologies) but out of interest did you use a dedicated machine? Is there a real life cu capacity / no. of cows figure?

frazzledhome

kowtow wrote: »

I'm sure you have told us before frazz (in which case apologies) but out of interest did you use a dedicated machine? Is there a real life cu capacity / no. of cows figure?

I'm off to fire up a BBQ at the school for sports evening then the hard working dads will partake of light ale refreshment, perhaps a more coherent answer may be available tomorrow

Farmer

frazzledhome wrote: »

.
..... then the hard working dads will partake of light ale refreshment, perhaps a more coherent answer may be available tomorrow

...and zero grazing would be the equivalent of sitting in with a six pack from Aldi

J DEERE

darragh_haven wrote: »

Zero grazing grass utilisation is 85 to 90%. Stock grazing is 60 to 65%

Maybe for certain times of the year but can't see those figures being correct all year round. If you're good at managing grass then waste between April and October should be minimal. I know with our land anyway if u can't let a cow out then I'd be very reluctant to let machinery onto it.

Would the Extra production from zero grazing compensate the additional costs of labor, fuel costs, depreciation, machinery upkeep and wear and tear, additional slurry spreading costs and labor and most importantly your own time? Maybe on an intensive dairy unit and even at that it would probably be pushing it. Cant see its merit on beef farms

Mad4simmental

kowtow wrote: »

In my case I will confess to a nagging interest in ZG regardless of all that, but only because I am toying with avoiding silage, particularly in the cheese making

If you really haveto do it at the shoulders would you be better off doing a deal with a local lad with a wagon for the few times a year you'd use it or buy a littel old single chop? It would be allot lighter on the pocket than a ZG

rangler1

J DEERE wrote: »

Maybe for certain times of the year but can't see those figures being correct all year round. If you're good at managing grass then waste between April and October should be minimal. I know with our land anyway if u can't let a cow out then I'd be very reluctant to let machinery onto it.

Would the Extra production from zero grazing compensate the additional costs of labor, fuel costs, depreciation, machinery upkeep and wear and tear, additional slurry spreading costs and labor and most importantly your own time? Maybe on an intensive dairy unit and even at that it would probably be pushing it. Cant see its merit on beef farms

There's a sector of farmers that just like their toys and they never need to justify a new machine. I hate farm machinery myself, I like my jeep though....often wonder how to put the topper on it

Mad4simmental

rangler1 wrote: »

There's a sector of farmers that just like their toys and they never need to justify a new machine. I hate farm machinery myself, I like my jeep though....often wonder how to put the topper on it

You need to get one of those old landcruisers with the pto ha,

rangler1

Mad4simmental wrote: »

You need to get one of those old landcruisers with the pto ha,

And a second tank for the 'green'

yellow50HX

kowtow wrote: »

I thought that might well be the case in practice, and difficult to argue that ZG has better utilisation than a mower used 3 times a year on the same ground?

In my case I will confess to a nagging interest in ZG regardless of all that, but only because I am toying with avoiding silage, particularly in the cheese making season.

So what I really need is a zero grazer set up to feed a solar powered hay drier

How about a windmill or are you surrounded by the not in my back yard crowd!! Ha ha

yellow50HX

Mad4simmental wrote: »

If you really haveto do it at the shoulders would you be better off doing a deal with a local lad with a wagon for the few times a year you'd use it or buy a littel old single chop? It would be allot lighter on the pocket than a ZG

Fiend of mine pulled out his dad's old silage harvestor a few years ago during those sh1te summers as he had to house the cows. Used it to cut grass and draw it into the cows rather then use the silage in the pit. Reckons it's a great job for that kinda of work on wet land but wouldn't be able to justify a ZG for a few weeks either end of the season or for a wet summer. The old harvestor has been sitting in the shed again for the last few years but will be usable again if needed.

Sam Kade

yellow50HX wrote: »

Fiend of mine pulled out his dad's old silage harvestor a few years ago during those sh1te summers as he had to house the cows. Used it to cut grass and draw it into the cows rather then use the silage in the pit. Reckons it's a great job for that kinda of work on wet land but wouldn't be able to justify a ZG for a few weeks either end of the season or for a wet summer. The old harvestor has been sitting in the shed again for the last few years but will be usable again if needed.

The only trouble with the single chop is that regrowth will be slow after it as it pulls the grass out of the ground rather than cutting at ground level. If you baled it or if you had an old silage wagon you'd have faster regrowth. The ideal job would be an old wagon and front mower.