''Casual Traders''

arrowloopboy

Lads,i've had ''Casual Traders'' call to my yard at least once a week for the past month,i don't want these people coming anywhere near my property un invited,i've never bought any of their dirt and never ever would. I've told each of them this in a very very aggressive manor ,and to fcuk off my property and never to call again.
I'm erecting sighs Monday,on all the entrances ,stating Private property,do not enter,trespassers prosecuted .
I'm just wondering ,if they pass these signs ,I presume the law is 100% on my side,as their trespassing,and can be prosecuted .
Their has been Farms,out farms,quads,gates stolen right left and centre in our area in the past 6mths,and absolutely not 1 caught for any of it :mad::rolleyes:.
In my opinion their should be a law passed on Casual traders calling un invited to peoples private property selling/spotting their wares.
Advice appreciated,

catastrophy

A guard dog warning sign is far more effective.

frazzledhome

They will not call where there's a big dog, cowardly bastards

galljga1

Be specific with the wording on your signs. Casual traders not welcome. You don't know who these fcukers are. They have no right to enter your property regardless of what they think. Personally, if I want to buy something, I chose to go to a shop/yard/whatever and deal with someone solid who I can return to if there is a problem, not some cnut chancing their arm and possibly eyeing your place up to see what they can rob.

arrowloopboy

I agree with the above lads,but I want to know where I stand from a legal point of view,if people pass buy no entry signs,dose the reasonable force act come into play,whats the difference in trespassing in someones farm/yard/house ?

howdee

A guard dog or even a beware of dog sign will sort them out. Casual traders despise dogs and the dogs despise them. They come in here looking always looking for the old man. They don't even want to talk to me as they know I'll tell em where to go.

td5man

frazzledhome wrote: »

They will not call where there's a big dog, cowardly bastards

Had a rottweiler here and none of them ever got out of there vans.
Had several lads this year walking round the yard.
Got another rottie last week so I must introduce him to them.

arrowloopboy

I have dogs lads,they blow their horn because their afraid to get out of their ''vehicles'' ,I want to prosecute the next one that calls un invited to MY yard.

Mad4simmental

td5man wrote: »

Had a rottweiler here and none of them ever got out of there vans.
Had several lads this year walking round the yard.
Got another rottie last week so I must introduce him to them.

I have two here and they don't call in any more. I know the bitch would pull a lads limbs off if they steped foot into the yard. Not so sure about the male, but as his the biggest rottie iv ever seen I wouldn't like to see what he'd do if he started.

arrowloopboy

I get the dog thing lads,i don't want these filth in my yard in the first place, to see my dogs,or anything else they can steal ,i want them to turn around at my entrance and fcuk off back to the hovel they crawled out of .

Bullocks

arrowloopboy wrote: »

I get the dog thing lads,i don't want these filth in my yard in the first place, to see my dogs,or anything else they can steal ,i want them to turn around at my entrance and fcuk off back to the hovel they crawled out of .

Electric gate at the entrance?

td5man

Bullocks wrote: »

Electric gate at the entrance?

240v???

foxy farmer

Im 300 yds down a lane. Pair of gates at the entrance with a chain slung around them not even locked usually deters them. Its only when i leave the gate open they seem to call. Have a good lump of a dog here too that hears anything coming down the lane.
Around here its a few locals raiding diesel tanks by night thats the biggest worry.
Neighbour had to threaten a frozen food salesman with the guards last year after he sat waiting in his yard for 3 hrs.

hiddenmongoose

frazzledhome wrote: »

They will not call where there's a big dog, cowardly bastards

Used to have a german shepard,fantastic quiet clever dog. he would let you in the yard in daylight..but not out !! and at night time nothing came inside the property without all hell braking loose.Had ''casual traders''(lol) call one day, as I made my way up from the shed to them the shepard went the other side of the house and in behind them quietly,you never seen two fat men move so quickly back into a van in your life.The are terrified of big dogs, and will avoid properties with them as its just not worth the hassel.
As for prosecuting them, you will probably find it hard to push unless you have caught the same guys coming in a few times.

Jimlh86

Lads a good dog is the only job! These lads come in under the pretence of selling whatever but really they're only in for a look! I can assure you if they found nobody home they will have a good snoop around. They won't take anything because chances are someone will ring the guards about them calling around and they will be stopped and searched. If they saw anything good like your nice ifor Williams or stihl saw someone will be back for it! Amazes me that other farmers/ tradesmen provide a market for these knowing some other decent person is at the loss of what they buy!

mf240

Jimlh86 wrote: »

Lads a good dog is the only job! These lads come in under the pretence of selling whatever but really they're only in for a look! I can assure you if they found nobody home they will have a good snoop around. They won't take anything because chances are someone will ring the guards about them calling around and they will be stopped and searched. If they saw anything good like your nice ifor Williams or stihl saw someone will be back for it! Amazes me that other farmers/ tradesmen provide a market for these knowing some other decent person is at the loss of what they buy!

One of them was in the area lately with a big fancy 151 jeep. Seen him pulled up talking to another one of his kind in a older plainish van up the road. I reckon he was picking up stuff that the other lad spotted in yards while looking for shed paining work.

Youd have to wonder why the revenue are not auditing these guys.

frazzledhome

td5man wrote: »

Had a rottweiler here and none of them ever got out of there vans.
Had several lads this year walking round the yard.
Got another rottie last week so I must introduce him to them.

Electric gate at farm so all callers have to phone, great job

Have a Lab Boxer cross here at house big stupid bastard who'd lick you to death. He does however run out to all callers with a welcome.

Shed painter called to Mrs Frazz the other day as couldn't get to yard. She rounded the corner with a 50kg stook by her side "I didn't know you kept a dog" says he "well you know now" says she. End of conversation :)

Nekarsulm

mf240 wrote: »

Youd have to wonder why the revenue are not auditing these guys.

That would be discrimination. Probably........:rolleyes:

arrowloopboy

I know a few older bachelor farmers in my area who are living in what can only be described as terror ,they are basically prisoners on their own farm .
I know for a fact some of them are sleeping with loaded shotguns beside their beds,and its only a matter of time before someone is going to get a melted .
Where do the IFA stand on these casual traders terrorising elderly farmers ?

foxy farmer

arrowloopboy wrote: »

I know a few older bachelor farmers in my area who are living in what can only be described as terror ,they are basically prisoners on their own farm .
I know for a fact some of them are sleeping with loaded shotguns beside their beds,and its only a matter of time before someone is going to get a melted .
Where do the IFA stand on these casual traders terrorising elderly farmers ?

Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't the IFA advocating the banning of legally held firearms. This after Padraic Nally causing a change in the law in the property owners favour.

blinding

I have seen areas in England(a few years ago mind) with signs for :

NO COLD CALLERS.

There is no doubt a lot of these guys are just checking stuff out or looking for an opportunity.

Nobody should buy or interact with Cold Callers of any Ilk and there should be a law made that if people have signs up saying "NO COLD CALLERS" then it is illegal to enter the grounds of their property.

We should canvass our political representatives regarding this.

Nekarsulm

foxy farmer wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't the IFA advocating the banning of legally held firearms. This after Padraic Nally causing a change in the law in the property owners favour.

Couple of points here, no firearm can be licensed in this country with the intention of using it for self defence. To even hint at such a plan would result in your application being denied.

IFA did not propose the banning of legally held firearms as such, but they were very unhelpful. By not supporting people with semi-automatic shotguns and rifles in their endeavours to oppose a proposed Gardai ban, they adopted an "I'm all right Jack" attitude, as the vast majority of farmers have a double or single barrel shotgun

If Pauric had owned a double barrel shotgun in the first place, the entire case would have likely taken a different course.

While I'm at it, putting up a humorous sign at the gate stating "No warning shots" or "House guarded by shotgun 3 night a week, you guess which 3" etc. will not improve your situation in the eyes of the law, should a tragedy occur, no matter who or how.

cerastes

foxy farmer wrote: »

Im 300 yds down a lane. Pair of gates at the entrance with a chain slung around them not even locked usually deters them. Its only when i leave the gate open they seem to call. Have a good lump of a dog here too that hears anything coming down the lane.
Around here its a few locals raiding diesel tanks by night thats the biggest worry.
Neighbour had to threaten a frozen food salesman with the guards last year after he sat waiting in his yard for 3 hrs.

is frozen food salesman a euphemism? or an actual frozen food salesman?
Why 3 hours? wouldn't leave until what?

Ive wondered about having another dog myself even though not out rural, ie one that would have a good temperment to us but despises anyone else.
Our dog is too pleasant for this kind of thing and looks nice and happy too and is glad to be petted by anyone, utterly useless for keeping anyone at bay, although she can make herself known with a bit of noise other than barking so at least its known there s a dog there before she can be seen.

Still something a bit big imposing and lazy with a bark worse than its bite might be good. Suggestions? I might be coming to the consideration that a Rottweiler might fill this job, but I dont think Ive the time for one.

arrowloopboy

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Couple of points here, no firearm can be licensed in this country with the intention of using it for self defence. To even hint at such a plan would result in your application being denied.

IFA did not propose the banning of legally held firearms as such, but they were very unhelpful. By not supporting people with semi-automatic shotguns and rifles in their endeavours to oppose a proposed Gardai ban, they adopted an "I'm all right Jack" attitude, as the vast majority of farmers have a double or single barrel shotgun

If Pauric had owned a double barrel shotgun in the first place, the entire case would have likely taken a different course.

While I'm at it, putting up a humorous sign at the gate stating "No warning shots" or "House guarded by shotgun 3 night a week, you guess which 3" etc. will not improve your situation in the eyes of the law, should a tragedy occur, no matter who or how.

Yes,those ''funny'' signs are for simpletons.
But ,the law is now on the side of the property owner,and the property owner can use what he deems to be reasonable force ,weather it be with a shotgun or a .270 ,to protect his posessions on his property,from un invited,un welcome vermin .
This is a big problem in Rural Irelad,and needs to be sorted out at government level !

foxy farmer

cerastes wrote: »

is frozen food salesman a euphemism? or an actual frozen food salesman?
Why 3 hours? wouldn't leave until what?

An actual salesman with a freezer in the van working for a legitimate co. from wexford i think. Literally sat in the van waiting for someone to appear around the house. Farmer saw him coming and hid but he never left. Should have ran him but was just pissed off.

Connemara Farmer

Nekarsulm wrote: »

IFA did not propose the banning of legally held firearms as such, but they were very unhelpful. By not supporting people with semi-automatic shotguns and rifles in their endeavours to oppose a proposed Gardai ban, they adopted an "I'm all right Jack" attitude, as the vast majority of farmers have a double or single barrel shotgun

Useless as a chocolate teapot, I even offered to make introductions to the right people to get them on the right track, no joy, just went back to internal dialogue.

arrowloopboy

Connemara Farmer wrote: »

Useless as a chocolate teapot, I even offered to make introductions to the right people to get them on the right track, no joy, just went back to internal dialogue.

Y
Yea ,probably on too cushy a number,i have me pension,i'm grand ,why would I bring up an emotive issue like this,fcuk you, :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:.

Connemara Farmer

arrowloopboy wrote: »

Y
Yea ,probably on too cushy a number,i have me pension,i'm grand ,why would I bring up an emotive issue like this,fcuk you, :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:.

It was an issue they could have helped with but they were listening to the wrong people. Once the cops get certain guns taken it, it becomes a slippery slope. A few years ago there was no issue with semi automatic shotguns, now they're in the firing line so to speak. I illustrated the farming connection as well (pigeon/crow/vermin shooting), but no point. All you can do is try, then it's up to the other guy.

tabby aspreme

OP a few cctv signs and a realistic looking camera may be a help, anyone comes around here gets there picture taken with the phone , sets them mad , also make it obvious your taking a picture of , or writing down number plates

Farmer

tabby aspreme wrote: »

...... anyone comes around here gets there picture taken with the phone , sets them mad , also make it obvious your taking a picture of , or writing down number plate

Sounds like a policy we should all adopt.What has a genuine caller got to hide

MickeyShtyles

Farmer wrote: »

Sounds like a policy we should all adopt.What has a genuine caller got to hide

Do it any time any of the boys appear in the yard in work.
They're not found of it.

arrowloopboy

I do take pictures lads,but your missing the point,i don't want these filthy vermin on my property, period,its my property ,and they havn't been invited in ,in my view its the same as someone entering your house un invited !

greysides

arrowloopboy wrote: »

I do take pictures lads,but your missing the point,i don't want these filthy vermin on my property, period,its my property ,and they havn't been invited in ,in my view its the same as someone entering your house un invited !

[mod]Please tone down your descriptions, we get your drift.[/mod]

arrowloopboy

greysides wrote: »

[mod]Please tone down your descriptions, we get your drift.[/mod]

Fair point,well made !It just angers me no end that these folk have free rein to terrorise elderly bachelor farmers ,and no one is doing anything about it,myselelf ,personally ,i'm more than willing and capable of dealing with them .
But when people prey on the weak and defenceless ,i'm not going to refer to them as gentlemen.

Count Mondego

arrowloopboy wrote: »

This is a big problem in Rural Irelad,and needs to be sorted out at government level !

The problem isn't with the legislation or the guards. It's with the judicial sentencing. Why do we keep seeing scumbags with 50 previous convections getting little or no sentencing for crimes like this? Judges want these boys filling the courts so that they'll have work next year, and of course free legal aid solicitors that play the "disadvantaged upbringing/ problem with drugs and alcohol your honor'. The 'disadvantaged' are an industry in Ireland.

arrowloopboy

Count Mondego wrote: »

The problem isn't with the legislation or the guards. It's with the judicial sentencing. Why do we keep seeing scumbags with 50 previous convections getting little or no sentencing for crimes like this? Judges want these boys filling the courts so that they'll have work next year, and of course free legal aid solicitors that play the "disadvantaged upbringing/ problem with drugs and alcohol your honor'. The 'disadvantaged' are an industry in Ireland.

Agreed,and they also benefit from a different kind of tax arrangement with the state ,they can draw the dole and openly operate a Cash business ,ive yet to see any of these gentlemen listed as tax evaders ,but I forgot,thats just for normal people that work :mad:.
Bout time some of our ''politicians'' grew some balls !

Jimlh86

Lads yer spot on about the courts! The irish courts system is leaking money like you wouldn't believe, it's one big money making game for judges, solicitors, barristers etc.. They dont care about the human cost of their fannying about and not actually cracking down on criminals in general! How lads with 50+ convictions are still entitled to free legal aid is beyond me? If someone with a head for it looked into where the money is spent it would be frightening! Anyway slightly off the point sorry O.P

onyerbikepat

I was shown the criminal record for an individual once (a junkie not a travelling salesman). It went on and on and on. Usually when a system is kept in place it is usually because certain people with power want to keep it that way. Money talks and all that.

Base price

My brothers house got broken into a few years ago. I happened to be passing by and saw a strange van in the driveway and two men walking out the hall door. I phoned the guards and in fairness they arrived within minutes. Caught the fellas red handed and there was three of them.
At the Court case a few months later only one of them was there. Appears the guards didn't have enough evidence against the other two :rolleyes:
After hearing all the evidence the FLA solicitor stood up for this lad and told the judge his clients 16yo wife was pregnant with their first child and that a custodial sentence would be unfair in the circumstances and the judge agreed. It was this lads 37th conviction :mad:

O.A.P

Base price wrote: »

My brothers house got broken into a few years ago. I happened to be passing by and saw a strange van in the driveway and two men walking out the hall door. I phoned the guards and in fairness they arrived within minutes. Caught the fellas red handed and there was three of them.
At the Court case a few months later only one of them was there. Appears the guards didn't have enough evidence against the other two :rolleyes:
After hearing all the evidence the FLA solicitor stood up for this lad and told the judge his clients 16yo wife was pregnant with their first child and that a custodial sentence would be unfair in the circumstances and the judge agreed. It was this lads 37th conviction :mad:

That's unbelievable nearly but when I think about it, I wont doubt you

Pacoa

i don't want these filthy vermin on my property

Sounds to me like the gate is your only option but its no guarantee to keep them out.

Base price

O.A.P wrote: »

That's unbelievable nearly but when I think about it, I wont doubt you

He had to pay €300. €200 was the cost of replacing the door, door frame and lock and fitting of same. The other €100 was my brothers costs for attending the court - driving up from Longford and having to pay a lad to look after the place while he was away
The break in occurred in my brother's house in NCD and he was living between both houses at the time.
In fairness the judge asked me did I have any costs and like a feckin eegit I said NO. I had to take a day off work as holidays TBH it was our first and thankfully only experience, however I will be a lot cuter next time.

Pacoa

sure they are only laughing at the system if they only get fined a few hundred. One stolen chainsaw would nearly pay that.

Base price

Pacoa wrote: »

Sounds to me like the gate is your only option but its no guarantee to keep them out.

Agree Pacoa, I think a locked or electric gate is the only option. If they pass through either then they are breaking and entering which is an offense, otherwise they can claim that they simply took a wrong turn into your driveway.

ellewood

Pacoa wrote: »

sure they are only laughing at the system if they only get fined a few hundred. One stolen chainsaw would nearly pay that.

Do ya reckon they pay the fines??

gctest50

blinding wrote: »

I have seen areas in England(a few years ago mind) with signs for :

NO COLD CALLERS.
..........

you can get together with the neighbours there and get a no-cold-caller-zone setup

http://new.surreycc.gov.uk/business-and-consumers/stop-cold-callers/no-cold-calling-zones/what-happens-in-a-no-cold-calling-zone

might be helpful if you had to shoot them

slimjimmc

arrowloopboy wrote: »

Lads,i've had ''Casual Traders'' call to my yard at least once a week for the past month,i don't want these people coming anywhere near my property un invited,i've never bought any of their dirt and never ever would. I've told each of them this in a very very aggressive manor ,and to fcuk off my property and never to call again.
I'm erecting sighs Monday,on all the entrances ,stating Private property,do not enter,trespassers prosecuted .
I'm just wondering ,if they pass these signs ,I presume the law is 100% on my side,as their trespassing,and can be prosecuted .
Their has been Farms,out farms,quads,gates stolen right left and centre in our area in the past 6mths,and absolutely not 1 caught for any of it :mad::rolleyes:.
In my opinion their should be a law passed on Casual traders calling un invited to peoples private property selling/spotting their wares.
Advice appreciated,

I think you presume wrong.
As I understand it trespass is not illegal unless it's likely to put you in fear.
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/criminal_law/criminal_offences/public_order_offenses_in_ireland.html
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1994/en/act/pub/0002/sec0013.html#zza2y1994s13

Jimlh86

Base price wrote: »

Agree Pacoa, I think a locked or electric gate is the only option. If they pass through either then they are breaking and entering which is an offense, otherwise they can claim that they simply took a wrong turn into your driveway.

No such thing as breaking and entering in this country it's an American thing. Going past your gate locked or otherwise is trespass which comes under the Public Order Act!!! Ridiculous stuff!!

Base price

Jimlh86 wrote: »

No such thing as breaking and entering in this country it's an American thing. Going past your gate locked or otherwise is trespass which comes under the Public Order Act!!! Ridiculous stuff!!

The guards did ask me was the driveway gate and house securely locked. I said that it was, I think the expression they used was forced entry.
In my book it amounts to the same, which is, dirty rotten lowlife feckers who have nothing else on their mind other than stealing from hard working, tax paying people. In my book that ain't "Ridiculous stuff" if you are a victim :mad:

Farmer

Anyone convicted of certain crimes should at least be tagged, with jail on the cards for interfering with the tags. In these cases, the onus of proof shouldn't need to be as high as a tag wouldn't be any impediment to someone who just happened to fall into bad company ( or whatever other excuse) It amazes me that every lorry driver can be tracked to the nearest metre by GPS but criminals cannot be tagged lest it impair their civil rights. No mention of the victim's right to walk the street or sit in his home.
Courts should also have access to a certain percentage of social welfare payments

Jimlh86

Base price wrote: »

The guards did ask me was the driveway gate and house securely locked. I said that it was, I think the expression they used was forced entry.
In my book it amounts to the same, which is, dirty rotten lowlife feckers who have nothing else on their mind other than stealing for hard working, tax paying people. In my book that ain't "Ridiculous stuff" if you are a victim :mad:

Sorry you picked me up wrong I wasn't having a pop at you! The law it comes under is very very minor charge! I totally agree with you