Audi didn't come out looking good after Watchdog on BBC last night

NIMAN

Anyone watch it?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/1Q2rXBpVsXVQ12hVFmxMBjP/audis-oil-guzzling-issues

Apparently their TFSI engines around 2011 are drinking oil by the bucketload!

They sorted out the issue in the US but forgot about the UK.
They now have something on their own website:
https://www.audi.co.uk/content/audi/about-audi/latest-news/audi-uk-bbc-watchdog-oil-consumption-june-2015.html

Cuddlesworth

And yet people give out about all those horrible Toyota recalls that they enact in a heartbeat.

NIMAN

I think the fact that Audi knew about the problem and did nothing is very disappointing for such a premium brand.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

mossy50

just like BMW with their failing timing chains companies like these don't give a toss

Special Circumstances

NIMAN wrote: »

They sorted out the issue in the US but forgot about the UK.
They now have something on their own website:

The german manufacturers are a great bunch of lads for forgetting to let UK/EU know about recalls/goodwill/fixes they have to do in the US.
Imagine if there was some way of communicating almost instantly across oceans and continents?

13 years or 150,000 miles warranty on MINI power steering pumps in the US.
No known issue in EU.
LOL. Her's appears to be on pump number 3 within the US warranty period.

DSG - LOL. Even China, that well known bastion of stringent quality control and consumer rights, has an extended warranty.

NIMAN

I think they are wary of lawsuits in the US and do anything to avoid them.

Couldn't believe that in the US they changed the 4yr warranty to 8yr too. Wouldn't get that here.

Tea 1000

The MkV Golf GTI's are chronic for oil consumption. Worse than Rotary engines, which are actually designed to consume oil.

rex-x

NIMAN wrote: »

I think the fact that Audi knew about the problem and did nothing is very disappointing for such a premium brand.

The fact people think this is true is part of the problem

Oafley Jones

NIMAN wrote: »

I think they are wary of lawsuits in the US and do anything to avoid them.

Couldn't believe that in the US they changed the 4yr warranty to 8yr too. Wouldn't get that here.

Not a hope. Worth noting that VW had severe problems with the quality that was coming off their Mexican plants and that issue is still in the publics consciousness there.

listermint

The German brands always always leave the EU out of recalls. It happens everywhere in the EU unless it gets major exposure, then larger countries like the UK do get included. The Irish Dealers will try get out of anything though as best they can.

The reason the States gets all the work is because they are terrified of litigation over there.

There is feck all onus on them in Europe to fix things

BMW and Audi are one and the same in that regard.

keithclancy

rex-x wrote: »

The fact people think this is true is part of the problem

Of course its a Premium Brand, well in Germany anyways.

Tea 1000

Audi and VW only offered a 1 year warranty here until around 10 years ago or maybe less.

punisher5112

The TFSi engine has always drank oil its down to the grade of oil been light and I have had no trouble just check your level once a week and your fine.

Always checked levels and always will no matter what the make.

Honda engines were great for the oil so it's nothing uncommon.

If there is a major fault though they should be fixing the issue.

My vrs octavia likes a bit of oil and hasn't changed a bit from new.

Gazzmonkey

My A4 refuses to consume even a drop of oil between services, it's a bit worrying as all my previous cars consumed some oil.

Ah well, one less thing to worry about I guess :cool:

MugMugs

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

And yet people give out about all those horrible Toyota recalls that they enact in a heartbeat.

There's a lot to be said for this post.

Toyota recall models and the media go to town and slam them

Audi are outed as having a serious issue they are refusing to deal with and there's nothing said about it.

Makes you wonder !

Gazzmonkey

MugMugs wrote: »

Toyota recall models and the media go to town and slam them

Why not, they're pumping out some seriously faulty products that require recalls to repair.

They need slammed

Skylinehead

MugMugs wrote: »

There's a lot to be said for this post.

Toyota recall models and the media go to town and slam them

Audi are outed as having a serious issue they are refusing to deal with and there's nothing said about it.

Makes you wonder !

In Ireland at least, VAG cars are pretty much a deity for some reason.

MugMugs

Gazzmonkey wrote: »

Why not, they're pumping out some seriously faulty products that require recalls to repair.

They need slammed

Did you get a tan when you were working your way around my point ?

Xuro

I had a 2006 1.6 A4, thought there was a hole in the engine as I had to refill the oil all the time. Then I went to a dealer last year to check a 2nd hand 2011 Audi A4 but it was in garage guess why? The oil light was on. Needless to say I didn't buy it.

rex-x

Gazzmonkey wrote: »

My A4 refuses to consume even a drop of oil between services, it's a bit worrying as all my previous cars consumed some oil.

Ah well, one less thing to worry about I guess :cool:

Its probably filling the sump with diesel making it look like it's not using any

mickdw

rex-x wrote: »

Its probably filling the sump with diesel making it look like it's not using any

My 08 1.8Tfsi uses no oil worth talking about. I use the long life oil and change it at about 10k miles and it might need a half litre between services.
We have had alot of audis from the 80s to 08 and they have all been excellent in that regard.
Now I once had an alfa and that liked it's oil.

zizou_

mickdw wrote: »

My 08 1.8Tfsi uses no oil worth talking about. I use the long life oil and change it at about 10k miles and it might need a half litre between services.
We have had alot of audis from the 80s to 08 and they have all been excellent in that regard.
Now I once had an alfa and that liked it's oil.

The worst oil guzzler I've had was a 1.8t petrol a4. Needed a litre every 1500 miles. I bought it fairly new and kept it for 4 years and the usage stayed the exact same. It's pretty annoying if you're doing any decent mileage tbh.

Funnily enough the 2 TS alfas I've had were a lot better.

mickdw

zizou_ wrote: »

The worst oil guzzler I've had was a 1.8t petrol a4. Needed a litre every 1500 miles. I bought it fairly new and kept it for 4 years and the usage stayed the exact same. It's pretty annoying if you're doing any decent mileage tbh.

Funnily enough the 2 TS alfas I've had were a lot better.

I had the older 1.8T in a TT and tbh I never had to top up. I used to change oil at 8k miles in that.

Nonoperational

Tea 1000 wrote: »

The MkV Golf GTI's are chronic for oil consumption. Worse than Rotary engines, which are actually designed to consume oil.

Mine doesn't consume a drop luckily.

rex-x wrote: »

The fact people think this is true is part of the problem

Actually, what people think of the brand has absolutely nothing to do with the engine using oil.

jimgoose

There is truly nothing new under the sun. The old Audi 100LS used to get through a horrific amount of oil.

Gazzmonkey

rex-x wrote: »

Its probably filling the sump with diesel making it look like it's not using any

lol never thought of that

P.S they don't have dipsticks, I have to trust a fecking LCD display

gallag

MugMugs wrote: »

There's a lot to be said for this post.

Toyota recall models and the media go to town and slam them

Audi are outed as having a serious issue they are refusing to deal with and there's nothing said about it.

Makes you wonder !

I always thought this was a protectionism racket for EU car brands, if there is a defective switch in a Toyota it garners widespread media attention yet the german and french brands can roll out any old sh1t and not a peep.

keithclancy

gallag wrote: »

I always thought this was a protectionism racket for EU car brands, if there is a defective switch in a Toyota it garners widespread media attention yet the german and french brands can roll out any old sh1t and not a peep.

Uggghh

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-29625734

Toyota also disclosed that approximately 190,000 vehicles had faulty fuel suction plates in them, which could lead to a fuel leak and increase the risk of the cars catching fire.

Come on like

BMJD

keithclancy wrote: »

Uggghh

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-29625734



Come on like

^^

This recall affects only vehicles in Japan, specifically the Corolla Rumion and Auris models manufactured between October 2006 and October 2014.

Tea 1000

Plenty of issues the Euro brands could have issued a recall for and never bothered.
You'll have owners of such brands saying "Sure I have one and it never had that problem at all". True, but same story with Toyota - the amount of actual failures were miniscule.
Also the recent airbag recall was from a company that many Euro makes also use, none of those got air time when they issued their recall, or if they even bothered.

MuppetCheck

mossy50 wrote: »

ALSO THE A5 & R8 HAVE NEVER BEEN CRASH TESTED SO IT HAS ZERO POINTS IN PROTECTION

Neither has a Lexus LS...but what has that to do with oil usage?

mickdw

mossy50 wrote: »

ALSO THE A5 & R8 HAVE NEVER BEEN CRASH TESTED SO IT HAS ZERO POINTS IN PROTECTION

What's this about ?

corcaigh1

What I don't understand is how audi could make reliable petrol engines until 2009 and then they fcuk up with pistons and rings, the very basics of an engine..

dingding

From the AUDI website.

certain models have been exceeding the factory oil consumption tolerance of 0.5 litres per 1,000 kilometres (approx. 620 miles)


That means putting a litre of oil in with every full tank of petrol.

I had a 99 Golf from new and it was using a bit of oil. I complained to the dealer and he pointed to the section in the manual which stated the "factory tolerance".


And I think it was something like that.



In this day and age having a car consume a litre of oil per tank of petrol and consider this acceptable is unreal.

Needless to say I never got another VW car.

mickdw

dingding wrote: »

From the AUDI website.

certain models have been exceeding the factory oil consumption tolerance of 0.5 litres per 1,000 kilometres (approx. 620 miles)


That means putting a litre of oil in with every full tank of petrol.

I had a 99 Golf from new and it was using a bit of oil. I complained to the dealer and he pointed to the section in the manual which stated the "factory tolerance".


And I think it was something like that.



In this day and age having a car consume a litre of oil per tank of petrol and consider this acceptable is unreal.

Needless to say I never got another VW car.

That is a joke. Even if all was well mechanically, who was going to compensate a motorist for the additional cost of pouring in a litre of oil per tank of fuel. Audi would want to handing out free 25L drums of the stuff given that engine oil for these can cost 17 euro per litre when bought by the litre.

Limbo123

Patww79 wrote: »

Was there any indication in the programme of how far back this issue goes? I've a 2006 one but it just mentions that it's OK after 2011.
Do we fall under the UK for this or will I have to wait and see if Audi Ireland follow suit?

it was 2009-2011 a4's, a5's and q5's that have the 2lt petrol engine in.

Red Kev

jimgoose wrote: »

There is truly nothing new under the sun. The old Audi 100LS used to get through a horrific amount of oil.

I had an Audi 200, 20V Quattro, think it was a 1991 (2.2L engine). Never used any oil worth mentioning. Had it for nearly a year and did about 60,000 KM of motorway in that time.

challengemaster

listermint wrote: »

The reason the States gets all the work is because they are terrified of litigation over there.

There is feck all onus on them in Europe to fix things

BMW and Audi are one and the same in that regard.

It's not just litigation - it's 3 simple words that strike fear into manufacturers operating in the US.

Class Action Lawsuit.

Surprise surprise, there's already one for this issue, probably the only reason it's fixed in the US

http://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-settlements/open-lawsuit-settlements/57394-audi-oil-consumption-class-action-lawsuit-settlement/

If it was commonplace in EU countries as well, they'd soon start fixing these issues on a global scale.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

George Dalton

Gazzmonkey wrote: »

P.S they don't have dipsticks, I have to trust a fecking LCD display

03L 115 611M, €10 ex VAT from your local VW dealer

RandomAccess

Thats a seriously high consumption rate. How much Oil is there in those engines between the max & min levels before damage occurs?

Hachiko

rex-x wrote: »

The fact people think this is true is part of the problem

Indeed, Audi are down near the bottom of the recent survey.

I am glad I did not get one.

Hachiko

RandomAccess wrote: »

Thats a seriously high consumption rate. How much Oil is there in those engines between the max & min levels before damage occurs?

usually 1 litre between min and max, give or take.

Hachiko

dingding wrote: »

From the AUDI website.

certain models have been exceeding the factory oil consumption tolerance of 0.5 litres per 1,000 kilometres (approx. 620 miles)


That means putting a litre of oil in with every full tank of petrol.

I had a 99 Golf from new and it was using a bit of oil. I complained to the dealer and he pointed to the section in the manual which stated the "factory tolerance".


And I think it was something like that.



In this day and age having a car consume a litre of oil per tank of petrol and consider this acceptable is unreal.

Needless to say I never got another VW car.

that is nonsense, I checked my oil just out of interest today, before even looking at this. It right up at the max, I did an oil change (castrol edge 5/30) last september and have done at least 4,000 miles in that time.

some cars use oil but it should not be excessive.

dingding

dingding wrote: »

From the AUDI website.

certain models have been exceeding the factory oil consumption tolerance of 0.5 litres per 1,000 kilometres (approx. 620 miles)


That means putting a litre of oil in with every full tank of petrol.

:........


In this day and age having a car consume a litre of oil per tank of petrol and consider this acceptable is unreal.

Needless to say I never got another VW car.

If my car did 2000kms per tank I'd happily put in a litre of oil

Old diesel

How many - in percentage terms of 2.0 tfsi Audis made between 2009 and 2011 actually have the issue.

And did they actually fix the issue in 2011.

it was once thought that the BMW timing chain issue was fixed on post 2011 cars but I believe post 2011 20ds have popped up with the issue.

Re the airbags - didn't someone post on here that they bought their E46 3 series for a recall on airbags.

You might remember there was a bit of faffing about because said E46 was a car bought new in Holland as right hand drive.

challengemaster

Old diesel wrote: »

Re the airbags - didn't someone post on here that they bought their E46 3 series for a recall on airbags.

You might remember there was a bit of faffing about because said E46 was a car bought new in Holland as right hand drive.

Yup, that was me :pac: Car was imported from NL -> UK/NI -> IRL, I just never knew about the first one!

Wasn't too much faffing about - all in all it was sorted within 3-5 minutes while on the same initial phone call to BMW HQ in Dublin. Conversation was something like:

Can you give me the chassis number
-Sure, it's JT*****
OK, One second... You're sure that's correct?
-Yes
Is the car an import by any chance?
-Yes, it was imported from the NI/UK
OK then, I'll just run the chassis number through our UK database... and still there's nothing. You're sure that chassis number is correct?
-Yes, I'm sure
Let me just check another database
-OK
Yes, I've got it now. It was originally bought in the Netherlands, that's why it wasn't on the other systems. That vehicle is eligible for the airbag recall, would you like to be patched through to your local dealership to schedule the work?
-(WHAT?!) Yes please
OK, I'll just do that now. Please hold for one minute whilst I give the receptionist the details

munchkin_utd

Old diesel wrote: »

How many - in percentage terms of 2.0 tfsi Audis made between 2009 and 2011 actually have the issue.

And did they actually fix the issue in 2011.

it was once thought that the BMW timing chain issue was fixed on post 2011 cars but I believe post 2011 20ds have popped up with the issue.

Re the airbags - didn't someone post on here that they bought their E46 3 series for a recall on airbags.

You might remember there was a bit of faffing about because said E46 was a car bought new in Holland as right hand drive.

do people here think that BMW or Audi make these pumps or timing chains or whatever?

no!
of course not.
They simply have suppliers in a bidding race and take the cheapest one.
And everyone wonders why stuff goes wrong with components!
BMW even at one stage (maybe still do) had an ebay style bidding platform for suppliers for the more generic parts, only with the price going down rather than up.
When you start messing with margins of error, material quality and the likes then theres only so much efficiency you can eeke out before theres stuff breaking and snapping.
One of the first things I remember from doing Mech Eng was that "Engineering is the art of compromise", but now I'm thinking there a fine line between compromise and compromised !

I heard one smart alek remark that BMW are a finance company with an enginering wing, but thinking about it thats essentially thats what it is, they make more profits on the leasing deals than proper sales so the ethos of the place is focused on return on investment more than quality engineering.

I dont work for them (EDIT: and never have, and working on aeronautical stuff at the moment) but lots in Munich work directly or indirectly so you hear plenty on whats going on in there.
VW / Audi has obviously a focus on cost, but from what I hear from Ingolstadt is that its just not quite as blatant as BMW.

Truckermal

I went for a few pints the other night and a mate wished me good luck with the new motor only to be interupted by the village idiot who asks oh what you buy and when I replied a TDI A4 he started mouthing on about the watchdog programme and just to prove he is a idiot he thought it was the diesel model that consumed heavy amounts of oil...:rolleyes:

Tea 1000

munchkin_utd wrote: »

do people here think that BMW or Audi make these pumps or timing chains or whatever?

no!
of course not.
They simply have suppliers in a bidding race and take the cheapest one.
And everyone wonders why stuff goes wrong with components!
BMW even at one stage (maybe still do) had an ebay style bidding platform for suppliers for the more generic parts, only with the price going down rather than up.
When you start messing with margins of error, material quality and the likes then theres only so much efficiency you can eeke out before theres stuff breaking and snapping.
One of the first things I remember from doing Mech Eng was that "Engineering is the art of compromise", but now I'm thinking there a fine line between compromise and compromised !

I heard one smart alek remark that BMW are a finance company with an enginering wing, but thinking about it thats essentially thats what it is, they make more profits on the leasing deals than proper sales so the ethos of the place is focused on return on investment more than quality engineering.

I dont work for them (EDIT: and never have, and working on aeronautical stuff at the moment) but lots in Munich work directly or indirectly so you hear plenty on whats going on in there.
VW / Audi has obviously a focus on cost, but from what I hear from Ingolstadt is that its just not quite as blatant as BMW.

I assume BMW manufacture their own crank though?