Nissan Leaf and a thank you

GreyDad

Hi EVeryone,

Hope you don't mind a Brit sticking his nose in here but I just wanted to say thank you for a really excellent and very informative forum which has helped me out immensely recently. Your real-world experiences with electric vehicles have been a revelation and I particularly thank Mad_Dog, cros13, DrPhilG and others for their very interesting threads and comments.

We are about to install a great lump of solar PV and have a plan to go all-electric for our two cars over the next year or two but up until last Friday hadn't driven an electric car. We've now had a Nissan Leaf on trial for the last 6 days (the dealer let us extend it when we asked) but sadly it goes back to them this morning. We have absolutely fallen in love with the car and we will return it only very reluctantly - my wife has gone from being somewhat sceptical and not sure whether she liked the way it looked to being a complete fan, demanding to know when she can have one. For her commute to work and use the Leaf is perfect and she would have no problems at all with the current model range. I suspect we're now going to be trading her petrol car in and getting a Leaf in the next few weeks.

We have friends in County Kerry and had a holiday there a while back staying in Kenmare so I liked reading about the EV coverage there - maybe the next time we go over we'll take an electric car and see how we get on!

I have a load of questions to ask but I'll post them a bit later, this was just a short intro and a thank you.

Now, where are my coupons for a Tesla Model S...

Cheers

Neil

GreyDad

GreyDad wrote: »

Hi EVeryone,

Hope you don't mind a Brit sticking his nose in here but I just wanted to say thank you for a really excellent and very informative forum which has helped me out immensely recently. Your real-world experiences with electric vehicles have been a revelation and I particularly thank Mad_Dog, cros13, DrPhilG and others for their very interesting threads and comments.

We are about to install a great lump of solar PV and have a plan to go all-electric for our two cars over the next year or two but up until last Friday hadn't driven an electric car. We've now had a Nissan Leaf on trial for the last 6 days (the dealer let us extend it when we asked) but sadly it goes back to them this morning. We have absolutely fallen in love with the car and we will return it only very reluctantly - my wife has gone from being somewhat sceptical and not sure whether she liked the way it looked to being a complete fan, demanding to know when she can have one. For her commute to work and use the Leaf is perfect and she would have no problems at all with the current model range. I suspect we're now going to be trading her petrol car in and getting a Leaf in the next few weeks.

We have friends in County Kerry and had a holiday there a while back staying in Kenmare so I liked reading about the EV coverage there - maybe the next time we go over we'll take an electric car and see how we get on!

I have a load of questions to ask but I'll post them a bit later, this was just a short intro and a thank you.

Now, where are my coupons for a Tesla Model S...

Cheers

Neil

I guess "Mad_Dog" sounds cool ! haha

Welcome to the forum Neil and you're welcome too !

I Love the Leaf and have driven 11,200 Kms, just about 7,000 since 24th January 15. I've chewed up almost half my PCP allowance !

That's almost 800 Euro's I haven't spent on petrol in the Prius @60 mpg.

I do wish we had incentives here for installing wind or solar PV but we don't so this makes it completely uneconomical, especially considering the cheap cost of Night rate leccy about 8 Cent per Kwh or 4.3 P your money.

I would always say to someone be prepared for winter driving because you'd want to be at a charge point after about 60 miles. You may get 70 but you'd want to be plugged in at this stage. I don't drive slow or easy either.

The cold means the battery can store less charge + it will take longer to fast charge or rapid charge as ye Brits say !

Speed and wind are the greatest range killers, more than even the cold or the heater. We get tonnes of wind here and pretty strong too.

I was impressed with my recent trip in the mountains it had almost 0 impact on range. I wasn't going fast which probably helped but it's interesting to know that what you loose climbing you don't need coming back down + the regen keeps the excessive downhill speeds down and that goes back to the battery. On that particular trip which was quiet hilly I managed to regenerate 10%.

I have a daily commute of 84 miles and a 10 min fast charge gets me home with about 20-25% battery.

Work are supposed to be installing 2 charge points which I have yet to see !

GreyDad

Doh! Sorry. I actually have an American friend who was nicknamed Mad Dog and I think I must have been subconsciously thinking of him when I was typing - although I genuinely thought I was typing Mad_Lad honest! Senior moment on my part, don't take it personally

We took the Leaf back only yesterday and it feels like we're all pining for it. Sounds so stupid, but we miss it already. My wife said when she came back from work yesterday that she missed seeing it parked out front snugged into the outside socket and wondered where it was. I can't wait to get rid of both ICE cars now, just so impatient for the new 2016/2017 models to come out with that magic bit of extra range I need. We'll get a Leaf for the missus though, she'll have no problems in winter or summer with the current 24kWh battery. I've been all over the secondhand Leaf models for sale in the UK the last few day. I'm thinking a 2014 Acenta with the 6.6kW charger is the sweet spot, there's a few with <5k miles for between £13-15k and a couple of outliers, including one for £11k which I don't quite understand yet (doesn't say it's Flex, which is confusing).

We did find that wind (and we've had some ferocious F8 winds this week) and motorways had an impact on the total range but like you when we went up into the hills it seemed quite happy. Both of us miss the regenerative braking! I'm trying to decide if I could ask the Nissan dealer for a second trial - I'd like to try some specific longer distance motorway driving, to my office and day tripping down to Exeter/Devon, which is about 50-60 miles away.

For myself I have a 45mile each way commute from Somerset to South Wales but no charging when I get there. The office car park is remote from the office itself and has no electricity available. I've started trying to get some chargers installed in the town car park but as it involves the local council it could take some time, possibly an infinite amount of time. There is a fast charger at the motorway services just over the bridge as I get back into England so I could pull in there each day for 10-15mins on the way home but it seems daft when the car sits in a car park for over 8 hours each day and could be charging then.

My biggest problem is that I also have to do long business trips, often 150-250 or more miles each way in a day and I don't think that's practical in a Leaf just yet. If I was just doing the office commute only I really think I'd take the plunge. If they get the range to 200 miles or so I'll also take the plunge because I think I could work the long distance business stuff with that - my rule is 3 hours of driving max so that would be comfortable. Or I could win the lottery and buy a Tesla...

I filled my own car up for a business trip on Monday, £60 of diesel. I pointed out to my kids that was over 2000 miles of driving in the Leaf....

The Solar PV incentives are slowly being scaled back in the UK as panel costs fall here but at least there are still some to be had - I was following your threads on the subject and it seems a real shame that they've stopped them in Ireland, surprising actually because I thought the gov was pretty progressive about that sort of thing. I'm looking to see if I can afford to put 6-8kW in and may bring 3-ph in to the house at the same time (it's available at the end of our lane, about 60m away) as I'm thinking of future charging of leccy cars over the next couple of years when I think it will get going big time. We would be able to put a 22kW charger in then... It all comes down to money of course in the end.

Anyway, I'm a real Leaf bore now but I find the car completely fascinating. I'm an electrical/electronics engineer though so it's probably no surprise. What was that quote I read on here? Leaf's are bought by "hippies and engineers"?

Thanks for the welcome, it's a great forum and incredibly helpful. I'll let you know when we buy one

Cheers

Neil

Indeed I would keep one ICE for the long trips, we wouldn't have the Leaf if we didn't have the Diesel. I wanted my partner to keep the prius but because of the 230,000 Kms she decided she'd get a diesel with less mileage and it's an estate too which has a useful extra bit of room for buggy and shopping. She also drives about 60 miles a day which at least made the diesel justifiable. I really hate driving it, getting into any ICE car after driving an EV for 7,000 miles really shows how bad and dated the technology is.

We did a long trip to Cork and Kerry back in March and took the old smoker , it would have been too inconvenient to take the Leaf because while driving to Cork or Kerry is possible you can't really do a road trip along the coast. Not comfortably anyway. And there is always the chances someone will be charging when you get there.

You get good deals on 2nd hand Leaf's in the U.K especially after the flood of PCP contracts expire. So it'd definitely worth checking out, especially the 2014+ because there is some change to the battery from 2014 provided it's an actually 2014 model year production !

There are rumors about a longer range leaf for 2016 model year, it's possible it could hit the actual 100 mile mark like the Kia Soul EV which is another EV worth while checking out.

2017 is the year the GM/Opel Bolt will be available with a claimed range of 200 miles but even 150 is a real welcome.

GreyDad

That was one of the questions I was going to ask - when did the battery chemistry change come in on the 2014 models? Is it the mid-14 models onwards (which would be '64' on the numberplate in the UK) or was it all '14' models, presumably from late 2013 onwards?? Is there any other way of telling?

There is a nice choice of used Leafs around the UK but it's surprising to me how few had the 6.6kW charger option fitted, which thins the pack out quite a bit. I think that's a good get-out-of-jail option and I can't understand why it's not standard, or why more people didn't install it.

I'm aware of the 2016 model year battery rumours (potentially that means from Sep/Oct 2015 I guess) and I keep making sly comments to our local Nissan dealer about that but they stay remarkably coy and dead pan when the subject comes up. As far as buying a Leaf for the missus I don't think it will affect our decision - I'd rather get a good secondhand deal on a 2014 which is good enough for her local use than spend all the extra on a brand new 2015/2016 model. I'm thinking she can run a 2014 for a couple of years and get into the the EV groove and then trade up to the complete facelifted Leaf in 2016/2017, when all sorts of things are likely to improve or maybe one of the many other interesting EV's due out around then.

No news from anyone about getting charging points in the town car park where I work but on the plus side I did get a call from Tesla Motors today and have a test drive booked in a Model S on Sunday

Cheers

Neil

Wow, a spin in a Model S. Nice one !

I don't know exactly when the battery chemistry was altered. It appears to be from the 2014 model year. There is no way to know.

I don't use the standard street chargers a lot but appreciate the 6.6 Kw charger when I do, they're 22 Kw capable and no reason the Leaf can't have a 10 Kw AC charger on board but in about 2 hrs at 6.6 kw the Leaf will replace 50% of the battery or close.

Using the standard street charge points when I am out and about means that when I leave the car and come back there is a good charge in the battery and most likely means after my business is done I don't have to then find a fast charger and wait for a charge or if someone is charging before me , wait for them to finish.

A lot of people don't get the 6.6 kw here in Ireland because dealers are trying to convince them they don't need it simply because it most likely means a special order and they might change their minds and not buy the car at all or go somewhere else. They want you to buy what's in stock !

But imo for 900 Euro's it's better to have it than want it because if one fast/rapid charger is down it might mean the difference between getting home or not and that in my opinion is worth the money ! But it should be standard.

GreyDad

Well, I followed up on the £11k 2014 Acenta and it was genuine - Nissan dealer ex-demo red with 6.6kw charger 7k miles including the battery (not Flex). Only problem is it's sold - very sold. Apparently it went within a few minutes of being advertised and they had over 20 enquiries the first day. The dealer was so taken aback by the response they're going to be stocking up with more cars! Yay go Leaf!

We've noticed several Leaf's (Leaves?) out on the road near us now and I saw my second i3 a few days ago. When we had the demo Leaf I had several people come up and enquire about, there was real interest and lot of people seem quite clued up about it, so I think there's a lot of latent demand there. Probably, like us, just waiting for the secondhand market to open up more.

Ah well, back to the search

Neil

You'll have a hell of a lot more 2nd hand (Leaf's) I think haha in the U.K than here, so it shouldn't take long to find one. But 11K is a good saving on a new price ! I opted for the PCP route because the savings on petrol alone pay almost half the repayments and I want to change in 2018 when the new model comes out, or whatever is the better EV by then.

The Renault Zoe is another one to check out and Renault are replacing the dash to a darker one for those who want it and I got to say it does look a lot better.

I think you can get the Zoe in the U.K now also without having to lease the battery. It is pricey enough though but one thing it has going for it is it's 44 kw on board charger, it's the most powerful of any EV in the world, that I know of anyway. So all the charge point has to do is supply the power and they can be made much cheaper.

Most of our standard non rapid chargers in Ireland are 22 Kw so should charge Zoe to 80% in an hour fully in about 1 hr 30 mins.

Zoe wasn't for me but it's a nice looking car, I preferred the Leaf inside and because it's got more power it is noticeable especially on the open road. It's a shame it could not be sold cheaper than the diesel because I would bet they would sell a lot more.

Benny_Cake

The Zoe is well worth a look, I gave some thought to getting one but I was put off by the lack of interest the Renault Dealer I approached showed in it and the savings didn't seem too huge compared to the Leaf.

The Chameleon charger is incredible though, and especially useful in Ireland where we have loads of 22kw chargers. I might consider getting a Zoe after the 3 years is up although I've heard that Renault are removing the option of charging at 43kw from the next model? Crazy if that's the case.

I'd be interested to hear how you get on with the Model S GreyDad. I'd love a spin in one but it might be hard to convince (fool) a Tesla dealer that I was the type of person who could afford one!

Renault will have to have DC charging if they're going to remove 44 Kw AC charging. 20 Kw AC charging would be really cool in any EV especially with our infrastructure.

The future of high power charging is without doubt DC, It would be very difficult for instance to have a 120 Kw on board AC charger in the Model S.

GreyDad

I've looked into the Zoe but haven't driven one yet. Didn't seem to have any particular edge over the Leaf in terms of performance or range although it's arguably a better looking (i.e. more conventional) looking car. I prefer the Leaf interior though and I think the Leaf specification is higher. The availability of more Leafs/Leaves on the secondhand market over here is likely to swing it for us I think.

You're right, though, the Zoe charging design is very good, they'd be daft to change that in my opinion, really the question should be why isn't the Leaf like that?

We've just come back from the Tesla Model S test drive. As soon as the blood returns to my extremities I'll start a new thread about it

Yeah I could say anyone who drives even the most basic Model S gets out with a big grin on their face, I could only imagine what the P85D with 750 HP would be like with instant torque !

The Leaf would take off harder only they have retarded it quiet significantly from stop to stop wheel spin, because it's front wheel drive you can't take full advantage of all that torque from the start. It takes off like a rocket once you're moving.

The MK I took off harder and it had about 20-30 Lbs more torque.

It would be really cool if Leaf II had more than just more range, higher performance would be nice and 4 wheel drive.

But back to charging, there is no reason apart from cost why they can't have more then 6.6 kw or 32 amp charging in the Leaf. Margins were really tight on the MK I Leaf and they're now just barely starting to make a profit. But the 32 amp charger should be standard in my opinion.
I would like to see more automation in driving too like the model S, having the ability to completely drive on it's own. After a night shift it would be a dream ! The hour drive home after a 12 hr night shift is a killer especially after working 72 hrs and driving 12 !

GreyDad

I think it would be nice on the Leaf to have an option to select a long (ish) range mode with say a 9-10sec 0-60 and a nippy sport mode around 5-7 ish like the i3 but at the expense of range. Not everyday is a 100 mile day, sometimes you just want to go out and have a bit of fun

There is a rumor that the Leaf in Japan can get a performance upgrade to the motor controller for more power.

Motors are capable of producing incredible peak power, especially water cooled motors, the Leaf motor could take a lot more power, I don't know the spec of the motor controller though. Then there would be extra stresses on the battery too. Drive shafts and reducer gear.

They do have the Leaf significantly retarded from stop which I don't like, it's over done. I've seen this on my electric bike projects, I had to implement this kind of limit to stop me doing wheelies and throwing me off. You could change the mapping of the throttle too just like the leaf which gives you eco and normal modes. Once speed builds up a bit you then allow max torque, or in the leaf's case I'd say that's being reduced unnecessarily too ! Rear wheel drive or 4 wheel drive Leaf II would be really cool and 200-300 HP it's actually not that difficult to do once the battery is up to it which the current battery isn't.

I would love to hack into the Leaf's controller to reduce this unnecessary limit it makes 0-100 Kph slower too.

GreyDad

I've just been reading about that on the UK forum Leaf Talk (which won't let me register, been trying for two weeks grrr), it's by NISMO but only available in Japan. Includes a body kit which I'm not interested in but engine management upgrade sounds wicked. Hope it leaks out to the rest of the world soon.

cros13

The NISMO Leaf only gets a second off the 0-100 time for an investment of €4000 in the chip alone. Mainly it just adjusts the torque curve.

The main problem with big motors is you need to feed them power, That's easier with a bigger pack (like the model S has).

The i8 uses a 90kW motor where the i3 uses a 125kW and the main reason is that the i8's battery is only 7.1kWh and can't discharge at more than 105kW.

Or you can use a higher power density pack such as LiPo ( if You Dare) haha. LiPo would probably have higher energy (more range) density too.

LiPo is capable of charging at 8-15C these days compared to 2C with the leaf and the LiPo won't warm up either compared to the Leaf at just 2C !

So if the Leaf 67 Ah new battery could charge at even 8 C that would be 536 amps and it could discharge at 4355 amps LOL With LiPo and not even the best Lipo I might add.

So if it can charge at 536 amps times 390 volts that would be 209 Kw or discharging (driving) would 390 volts times be 1,750,710 watts hahahahaha 1.75 Megawatts put that into horsepower = 2,279 Hp !!! imagine that acceleration !!!

But EV batteries don;t need such high specs, this is RC LiPo which is for remote control helicopters/planes etc which their tiny batteries need massive power outputs.

You can use much cheaper LiPo to build a very large pack out of these packs but the wiring would be a nightmare and also the BMS to balance/monitor the cells would be a headache to find. And not to mention the 390 voltage , you got to be so careful. LiPo can go up ina spectacular fireball.

I think the GM Bolt will be a lot more fun than the Leaf, the Americans are not known for building European/Japanese type slow vehicles.

Or you can use a higher power density pack such as LiPo ( if You Dare) haha. LiPo would probably have higher energy (more range) density too.

LiPo is capable of charging at 8-15C these days compared to 2C with the leaf and the LiPo won't warm up either compared to the Leaf at just 2C !

So if the Leaf 67 Ah new battery could charge at even 8 C that would be 536 amps and it could discharge at 4355 amps LOL With LiPo and not even the best Lipo I might add.

So if it can charge at 536 amps times 390 volts that would be 209 Kw or discharging (driving) would 390 volts times be 1,750,710 watts hahahahaha 1.75 Megawatts put that into horsepower = 2,279 Hp !!! imagine that acceleration !!!

But EV batteries don;t need such high specs, this is RC LiPo which is for remote control helicopters/planes etc which their tiny batteries need massive power outputs.

You can use much cheaper LiPo to build a very large pack out of these packs but the wiring would be a nightmare and also the BMS to balance/monitor the cells would be a headache to find. And not to mention the 390 voltage , you got to be so careful. LiPo can go up ina spectacular fireball.

I think the GM Bolt will be a lot more fun than the Leaf, the Americans are not known for building European/Japanese type slow vehicles.

GreyDad

Disappointing, 1 sec not worth the effort.

On a slightly related note, how fast do you all think a Leaf is 0-60? The 11.5 secs or whatever it is in the brochure is a wee bit conservative. I did a simple trial 4-up with my family on an open road and my son timed it on his phone at about 9.5 secs so I reckon it's faster than that. On Leaf Talk I found a thread where they were discussing tricks with the brake/N/D to get the fastest getaway Consensus seemed to be it was around 9secs, anyone agree with this? Is it different for a Gen 1.5 vs a Gen 1?

cros13

I've timed Gen 1.5 at 9.5 seconds dead as well.

Gen 1 was around 0.2 - 0.3 seconds off that due to the extra torque at the start.

I'd reckon the NISMO could hit 8 seconds on a good day.

Official 0-100 on the i3 is 7.2 seconds for the BEV and 7.9 on the ReX.... but I've timed my ReX at 6.6 seconds and I think with reprogramming I could get it just below 6.
Some people on forums have reported 5.5 second times in the BEV (coded).

One thing is sure. We've got some pretty quick "milk floats". The gearheads are missing out.

The Mk 1.5 leaf is down about 30 lbs of torque from the MK I which is pretty significant and it's also seriously retarded on take off.

When you're moving about 15-20 Km/hr and floor the throttle the Leaf takes off really hard but from 0 is a disappointment.

I would estimate a good 10 seconds to 100 Kph or 62 mph. I must see if the phone is any good at detecting the 0-100 Kph.

We really need to hack the controller and remove this limiting on take off.

GreyDad

Interesting (old) thread on Leaf Talk said that some people had managed 8.5secs 0-60 in a Leaf and many around 9secs no problem. Not quite Tesla or i3 I guess but respectable nonetheless.

I've downloaded Racelogger for my iPhone, now all I need is another Leaf to try a few experiments on

GreyDad

Sorry I'm trying to increase my number of posts to 25 so I can post a couple of pics from our tesla test drive...

samih

How was the testdrive?

GreyDad

It was pretty impressive. Drove an S85 (rear wheel drive only, which they don't make anymore but closest perhaps to the S70D in terms of price and spec) and we were driven in a P85D - average punters are not allowed to drive it (Dutch LHD model) so they are given a demonstration instead.

The P85D is eyeball-metling - the drag from standstill to 60 actually blurred my vision, it's just difficult to explain what it feels like. My eldest teenage son said he thought he was going to wet himself It's a £100k and quite a hard ride with big fat tires so road noise from them is noticeable.

Loved the S83 though and if I was rich and had the cash I'd order an S70D straight away but I'm not so I can't. S70D is actually faster 0-60 than the S83 for slightly shorter range but anything more than 200-230 miles is for me perfectly useable.

General conclusion by the family was yes lovely car want one but not the P85D, the tamer one was the favourite.

A point to note though, is that the Leaf is a quieter ride in my opinion, mainly due to the smaller tires, and at sub-motorway speeds there was little to tell between it and the S in terms of ride quality. Of course, on the motorway is where the Tesla really belongs and there it's superb.

Just arranging a test drive in a Kia Soul EV next, and trying to get another few days with the Leaf - I want to see if I can do my work commute which I haven't tried yet.

Oh, and BMW have finally got back to me so may try an i3 just for a laugh

I3 is very expensive compared to the Leaf for no better range.

But it would be a lot more fun.

Try get a spin in the non Rex version.

GreyDad

We're not Beamer fans in general despite the acknowledged quality of the cars. My main criticism of the i3 apart from price is the rear door arrangement which I think is very dangerous and I wouldn't accept it for my own kids. I would like to see if it's ride and handling is as good as claimed though, it ought to be for the money asked. The non-REx range is disappointing for the money, I would have thought they could do better than tha as it offers no advatage over the Leaf, which is still our favourite so far.

coolbeans

Just following this thread with with interest as we've got a Renault Zoe at work as a pool car. Not much power but instant availability of the torque it does have makes it a very responsive little motor in the suburbs.

Greydad, would a Mitsubishi PHEV not suit you better than a Leaf as its got an on board petrol generator?

GreyDad

Interestingly the Mitsubishi PHEV caught my attention a long time ago, well before we started looking at the Leaf. I've been in to see them and have the chance to do a test drive, but haven't so far.

I'm on the fence about hybrids and after the Leaf I think I've become a bit of an EV purist (i.e. opinionated lol). However the PHEV is a lot of car and seems like a very well thought out thing, so is understandably selling well.

But...

You have the advantage of an all electric drive option but the disadvantage of very limited range. So you then have the hybrid advantage of the 2L petrol engine (to either charge the batteries or drive the wheels directly, which is very clever) but all the disadvantages of an ICE engine - pollution, servicing, reliability etc. And you still need to buy fuel dammit. Personally I'd just like to dump all the petrol related parts completely. The PHEV is a very complicated vehicle mechanically and electrically and it strikes me it could cost a lot to service and maintain - potentially a lot of things to go wrong no matter how good Misubishi are in this regard.

I think the PHEV makes sense as a company vehicle leased with a service contract if you need a great big 4WD SUV. I'm not a company car driver and don't need an SUV so it has less appeal to me personally despite it's clever engineering. It also starts around £30k and to be honest I could buy a couple of Leaf Acentas a year or so old for less than that.

So I think it's a clever, interesting vehicle but not for me - I'd rather hang on to my diesel Octavia Scout for another couple of years as the long distance car, get a Leaf or Soul EV for the missus now and see what 2017 brings in the pure EV world.

If range is your worry then I would without doubt hold off until the end of 2017 when the Gen II electrics appear.

The Mitsubishi Plug in is something I would not have because , as you say it's got an engine and for the 1-2% of my driving I need an engine it's a major waste, I would rather spend a few mins at a fast charger !

People ask me all the time how do I find the limitation of electrics and I tell them that the only limitation to me is the 25,000 Kms a year PCP limit, I have to restrict driving it. Sure, waiting at a fast charger can be annoying and especially if someone is there specifically to get free electricity who live just down the road and could use their own charge point, electricity at night is cheap here and the miserable gits still hold up a fast charger.

Drivers of plug-ins always want more ev range because driving in electric is so much better.

The other problem I have with plug-ins is their battery is so small they will want the fast chargers a lot more often and they have an engine to carry on and they take up a fast charger on someone who absolutely needs it, this in my opinion is wrong and should not be allowed !

Luckily, currently the Mitsubishi is the only plug in that can fast (rapid) charge .

The MK 1.5 battery is proving to be lasting much longer, think of the U.K Taxi that has just over 100,000 miles and only lost 10% despite 1,700 fast charges.

If the MK II battery has twice the capacity and lasts as long then the battery will never be a worry.

GreyDad

So here's where I'm at.

Leaf for the missus, done deal. Current Gen 1.5 a year or so old so 2014 model with the very good updated battery. No range anxiety, home charging probably 99.99% of the time, wife loves it everyone happy.

If I was just doing my 135km work commute and occasional personal long trips I'd go for the same car. It will save me a fortune in fuel and maintenance (I reckon £3k+ per year). I have no charging ability at work but it's nearly all motorway and there are 4 sets of Chademo chargers each way so I don't really have any range concerns - just time, it will take me an hour to get home each night instead of 45 minutes with one 10 min fast charge

The sticking point is the occasional long distance business trips - typically 200 miles each way in a day, for which the Scout is ideal and where the current Leaf would not be practical.

However if a true 125 mile uprated Leaf comes out in autumn this year things change significantly for me. I could do my daily commute to work easily without the need to rapid charge coming home. I could reach most of my expected business destinations with one rapid charge each way (and it's not unreasonable to have at least one rest break on trips of that length anyway).

So the as yet unannounced Gen 1.5++ Leaf would work for me and it would be worthwhile (from a cost point of view) buying a brand new one. Then in 2017 trade in the wife's for a Gen 2 or Tesla 3 or whatever.

Kia Soul EV is a bit closer to this but still doesn't quite swing it for my needs.

So come on Nissan, get the Gen 1.5++ out and we'll buy 2 Leafs this year.