Cost of electrification of Railway line

L1011

There was track lowering and/or positional changes under some structures but that was about it. Original DART replaced a fair bit of track with slab track which has since been re-replaced with conventional - but the old track was 150 years old.

loyatemu

Sam Russell wrote: »

Do you have a link to that rather than just an opinion?

Just an observation that the track is now CWR and previously it was jointed, but they may not have done that at the same time (the IRRS may have some more information). Before the Dart there was literally only 10 (5 in each direction) trains a day between Greystones and Bray (plus some freight), though it had been more frequent in the past when the shuttle was running.

Maynooth line already has frequent services and is CWR so probably wouldn't require much track work.

AngryLips

They'd need to do something with the bridges in order to fit the overhead lines

Sam Russell

They did 'adjust' the bridges. Pedestrian bridges were raised on stilts.

Chivito550

EU average back in 2012 of electrification of railways 52%. Switzerland is over 99%. Ireland is less than 2%. We really are living in the dark ages regarding infrastructure.

marno21

Chivito550 wrote: »

EU average back in 2012 of electrification of railways 52%. Switzerland is over 99%. Ireland is less than 2%. We really are living in the dark ages regarding infrastructure.

Ah sure we'll be raising that number soon with some of the lines being shut! Progress...

Carawaystick

Chivito550 wrote: »

EU average back in 2012 of electrification of railways 52%. Switzerland is over 99%. Ireland is less than 2%. We really are living in the dark ages regarding infrastructure.

Irishwomen got to vote a hundred years ago last week. Swiss women were only franchised in '71.

I'm not sure why you regard electric railways as the defining marker of infrastructure.

marno21

Carawaystick wrote: »

Irishwomen got to vote a hundred years ago last week. Swiss women were only franchised in '71.

I'm not sure why you regard electric railways as the defining marker of infrastructure.

There are very few defining markers of infrastructure that show Ireland in a good light tbh

Chivito550

Carawaystick wrote: »

Irishwomen got to vote a hundred years ago last week. Swiss women were only franchised in '71.

I'm not sure why you regard electric railways as the defining marker of infrastructure.

I said we are in the dark ages regarding infrastructure. I didn't mention other areas so your voting rights remark is totally irrelevant.

I hope you don't actually think we have infrastructure as good as the Swiss, or the rest of Europe for that matter. We don't.

Carawaystick

I suppose if we actively proffited on the back of a genocide, while denying people basic human rights, we'd have better infrastructure too

Logue no2

Carawaystick wrote: »

I suppose if we actively proffited on the back of a genocide, while denying people basic human rights, we'd have better infrastructure too

Right. So our infrastructure is poor because we haven't committed mass murder somewhere.

lawred2

Whatever about euro cost but the lost opportunity cost is huge. Dart should never have happened. It should have been the start of Dublin underground.

Logue no2

lawred2 wrote: »

Whatever about euro cost but the lost opportunity cost is huge. Dart should never have happened. It should have been the start of Dublin underground.

We never miss the chance to squander the opportunity to think ahead and build the right infrastructure, not for now, but for the future.

According to the CSO the population of Ireland will expand by 1.7 million over the next 30 years. Will all of that increase live in Dublin or in an area about 50 miles around Dublin? They way we handle things that might happen and by the way they'll travel by bus or car if you believe some of the so called experts.

In reality we should be planning for a counterweight to Dublin but we will have turned all of our rural railways into horse and cart tracks by then if a few folk get their way.

BonkeyDonker

Logue no2 wrote: »

In reality we should be planning for a counterweight to Dublin but we will have turned all of our rural railways into horse and cart tracks by then if a few folk get their way.

Does Dublin need a counter-weight though. Public transport, especially rail works best where you have a high population density. This is lacking in most of Ireland, indeed even Dublin could be considered on the low side of optimum.

Chivito550

Carawaystick wrote: »

I suppose if we actively proffited on the back of a genocide, while denying people basic human rights, we'd have better infrastructure too

There simply are not enough facepalms to justify the above.

spacetweek

Chivito550 wrote: »

There simply are not enough facepalms to justify the above.

The conversation is escalating quickly to Nazism. No more about that please. Electrification should be based on need, not by comparing to Switzerland which is not similar to Ireland.

lawred2

Logue no2 wrote: »

We never miss the chance to squander the opportunity to think ahead and build the right infrastructure, not for now, but for the future.

According to the CSO the population of Ireland will expand by 1.7 million over the next 30 years. Will all of that increase live in Dublin or in an area about 50 miles around Dublin? They way we handle things that might happen and by the way they'll travel by bus or car if you believe some of the so called experts.

In reality we should be planning for a counterweight to Dublin but we will have turned all of our rural railways into horse and cart tracks by then if a few folk get their way.

Agree with everything except needing a counter weight for Dublin. It's a small city in real terms and generally speaking should benefit from the expansion. However can the Irish planning system facilitate such growth? probably not. So maybe in the context of Irish planning, restricting Dublin's growth might actually make sense.

purplepanda

£4.75M per mile cost for the London Goblin line (Gospel Oak - Barking) electrification project, that's without new trains, although new DMU's were introduced a couple of years back , they will be put to use elsewhere from 2017.

http://www.railtechnologymagazine.com/Rail-News/j-murphy-sons-to-carry-out-electrification-of-gospel-oak-barking-route

A lot of bridges have had to be replaced or rebuilt in the route, increasing the overall cost.

Sam Russell

purplepanda wrote: »

£4.75M per mile cost for the London Goblin line (Gospel Oak - Barking) electrification project, that's without new trains, although new DMU's were introduced a couple of years back , they will be put to use elsewhere from 2017.

http://www.railtechnologymagazine.com/Rail-News/j-murphy-sons-to-carry-out-electrification-of-gospel-oak-barking-route

A lot of bridges have had to be replaced or rebuilt in the route, increasing the overall cost.

So 25 km to Maynooth would cost about €87.5m. I would think that is very high as the 7.5km Dart extension to the airport was costed at €200m and that included the purchase of the land and provision of the permanent way. That price equates to €666m for a brand new line to Maynooth.

BonkeyDonker

Sam Russell wrote: »

So 25 km to Maynooth would cost about €875m. I would think that is very high as the 7.5km Dart extension to the airport was costed at €200m and that included the purchase of the land and provision of the permanent way. That price equates to €666m for a brand new line to Maynooth.

I reckon there is a decimal point in the wrong place.

4.75 * 25 = 118.75.

Sam Russell

BonkeyDonker wrote: »

4.75 * 25 = 118.75.

The 4.75 m is in GB pounds per mile. That is €3.5 m per km, or €87.5 for 25 km.

Indeed I got the decimal point wrong. Edited original post.

L1011

Most structures were altered for OHLE during the dualling. They would likely bundle the level crossing work and the extra EMUs in any figure though.

Sam Russell

L1011 wrote: »

Most structures were altered for OHLE during the dualling. They would likely bundle the level crossing work and the extra EMUs in any figure though.

Well, if they electrified the line first, and used Dart stock for off-peak and 29000 units for peak, that might get over the initial problem. Perhaps they could go with Dun Loaughrie to Maynooth on 20 minute spacing, with Bray to Malahide on 20 minute spacing, with Howth served by a shuttle. Alternatively, GCD to Maynooth on 20 minute spacing. Alternatively, change the requirement for ALL Darts to stop at ALL stations during peak operation.

Is it time to start splitting trains live? Say, split the 8 coaches at DL and run 4 coaches to Bray/Greystones. It appears that off peak, 4 coaches would be sufficient.

We need new thinking.