Coming home? Are you thinking about it?

Anachrony

Wompa1 wrote: »

If I could live in Santa Barbara or Monterey in CA without worrying about the water shortage, I'd jump at that.

Bah, water. We have enough water for human usage. It's not like people are dehydrated and unable to bathe. Their large, formerly green lawns are browning up, and that's it. Unless you're a farmer you'll be fine. Are you a farmer? If not that's hardly a reason not to live somewhere.

We're also un-mothballing our desalination plant and expanding greywater use for landscaping. Longer term there are other infrastructure improvements we can invest in to make more efficient use of the water we have if conditions persist. Which they may not with the El Nino pattern shaping up this year.

If you want a reason not to live here it's that we have some of the least affordable real estate in the US relative to income. Property values here are comparable to some of the most expensive urban areas, but unlike those cities, our job market here is nothing special. The ratio between income and home value is terrible. On the other hand, there's a reason for that, and it's that people want to live here.

keithclancy

On the Growing old part, Ireland in my opinion is fairly awful place to do it.

I know good few people that have been financially well off, but the problem wasn't money, it was the infrastructure and services. Eventually when you get to a stage of not being able to drive anymore you have to rely on Taxis or non existent buses.

Or if you are unable to function by yourself in your home anymore you need to pay for home help.

If you start to have mental problems the facilities are not great either.

In the Netherlands they have a staged system of being independent for as long as possible, with home care, then group facilities in the neighborhood where people come from that are more like normal apartments than facilities.

People can get reliable public transport to anywhere they want to go and have access to excellent healthcare to boot.

Even the topic of Euthanasia is an option, if you are at a point where your quality of life isn't there anymore you can choose your time yourself rather than suffer in a bed for a long time.

And there are also places like Hogewey for people that suffer from Dementia for example:
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/AlzheimersCommunity/alzheimers-disease-dutch-village-dubbed-truman-show-dementia/story?id=16103780

After seeing some of the Mental Health and Care homes in Ireland the one I did see were pretty rubbish.

Maybe I'm just a bit cynical since I've had a few funerals recently but thats my two cents anyway.

In short Ireland is one of the last places I would want to live out my final years in.

Wompa1

Anachrony wrote: »

Bah, water. We have enough water for human usage. It's not like people are dehydrated and unable to bathe. Their large, formerly green lawns are browning up, and that's it. Unless you're a farmer you'll be fine. Are you a farmer? If not that's hardly a reason not to live somewhere.

We're also un-mothballing our desalination plant and expanding greywater use for landscaping. Longer term there are other infrastructure improvements we can invest in to make more efficient use of the water we have if conditions persist. Which they may not with the El Nino pattern shaping up this year.

If you want a reason not to live here it's that we have some of the least affordable real estate in the US relative to income. Property values here are comparable to some of the most expensive urban areas, but unlike those cities, our job market here is nothing special. The ratio between income and home value is terrible. On the other hand, there's a reason for that, and it's that people want to live here.

I should have said the water coupled with the cost. I wouldn't want to pay to live somewhere with those kinds of restrictions. I have a lot of family in Florida they have Water restrictions from time to time too. It always seemed inconvenient.

Also the traffic is pretty terrible and although I like the beaches around Santa Barbara and the town part is pretty nice it kind of reminds me of Scottsdale, AZ or Bellevue, WA...nice but pretty pretentious and sort of so clean, it's kind of fake. The hanging lights along the main street. It really is beautiful and I would be fine with living there but it doesn't feel all that genuine. Much nicer than Malibu. There's no work for me around Santa Barbara.

Monterey is beautiful but there's no work for me there. I'd have to commute to Silicon Valley.

The California drivers are real pr1cks. Even in other states they are just the worst. You've got the threat of Earthquakes too...but sounds like Washington and Oregon have that too which is a shame because the Pacific Coast line is amazing.

I really love Hawaii too but cost with the threat of natural disasters and being stuck over in the middle of the Pacific is a bit daunting. Also in Hawaii...driving at 35 mph all the time would drive me crazy.

Suaimhneach

@keithclancy, I think a lot of what you're saying is important, but you cant live your life now (somewhere between 20-50?) planning for when you're 70, right? I mean, ABSOLUTELY, plan and consider it, but dont make life decisions based on something that may or may not happen in 40 years?

I'm in the Bay Area and recently went to a Baby Shower (my first!) in Atherton - now there is a place where money and (no) water restrictions and the "America Dream" have gone wild. It was like someone had a cheat code in a Sims plot. Gorgeous, but surreal.

I think a lot of the small gorgeous towns along highway 1 are 100% pretentious, but that's because they're intentionally designed that way. It's a weird place to live.

Anachrony

Wompa1 wrote: »

Also the traffic is pretty terrible

Traffic? Really? Are you sure you aren't confusing it with LA? Downtown Santa Barbara has a walk score of 100%, and has everything you need within about two miles. And even the furthest flung suburbs are only about 15 minutes from the furthest suburbs on the opposite side of town.

I've never heard anyone who has spent much time here complain about traffic. If you commute to or from another community maybe, there are bottlenecks on the highway during rush hour. But if you live within the community it's really not hard to get around. It takes me about 5 minutes to drive to my office in the heart of downtown, and I never face traffic issues.

I can see a tourist having trouble with traffic, because they don't know where to drive. But it's not hard to learn, and most of the town does not have traffic issues. Don't drive on State Street or along the beach, basically. That's it. You drive on the big one way streets parallel to State Street, park in one of the convenient public lots near your destination, get out and walk. For the beach, park and walk; don't cruise down that one street more than necessary. Even if you do spend all your time at the beach (which you probably wouldn't if you were living your regular life rather than vacationing), you'll learn other beaches that are much less crowded and don't have congested streets.

Earthquakes are another thing that always concern people who don't actually live here way more than Californians. Not a big impact on quality of life. Most modern construction can handle the sort of earthquake you are likely to encounter, and most of the buildings are only 1 or 2 stories anyway. Wildfire is a concern, but mostly limited to certain areas up in the hills on the periphery of the community.

iusedtoknow

Wompa1 wrote: »

The California drivers are real pr1cks. Even in other states they aYou've got the threat of Earthquakes too...but sounds like Washington and Oregon have that too which is a shame because the Pacific Coast line is amazing.

I really love Hawaii too but cost with the threat of natural disasters and being stuck over in the middle of the Pacific is a bit daunting. Also in Hawaii...driving at 35 mph all the time would drive me crazy.

Sure there is a threat of earthquakes but in the 3 years I've lived here, we've had 3 jolts, the last one being last Sunday which was 3.3 and about 14 miles away off the golden gate - if I hadn't have felt the vibration before the shake, I'd have thought it was my neighbor moving furniture.

InTheTrees

I'd never felt an earthquake before that October 17th evening in 1989 when the 7.1 hit in Santa Cruz.

Its the aftershocks that really mess with you... over 90 smaller earthquakes (over 3.0) in the following three weeks. You never knew if/which one was going to be another really fcuking huge one.

Then I moved to Seattle just in time to be in a 6.8 earthquake. No aftershocks on that one thank god. Of course the entire pacific coast is lined with active volcanoes. The last one blew in 1980, killed 58 people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cascade_Volcanoes

Wompa1

Anachrony wrote: »

Traffic? Really? Are you sure you aren't confusing it with LA? Downtown Santa Barbara has a walk score of 100%, and has everything you need within about two miles. And even the furthest flung suburbs are only about 15 minutes from the furthest suburbs on the opposite side of town.

I've never heard anyone who has spent much time here complain about traffic. If you commute to or from another community maybe, there are bottlenecks on the highway during rush hour. But if you live within the community it's really not hard to get around. It takes me about 5 minutes to drive to my office in the heart of downtown, and I never face traffic issues.

I can see a tourist having trouble with traffic, because they don't know where to drive. But it's not hard to learn, and most of the town does not have traffic issues. Don't drive on State Street or along the beach, basically. That's it. You drive on the big one way streets parallel to State Street, park in one of the convenient public lots near your destination, get out and walk. For the beach, park and walk; don't cruise down that one street more than necessary. Even if you do spend all your time at the beach (which you probably wouldn't if you were living your regular life rather than vacationing), you'll learn other beaches that are much less crowded and don't have congested streets.

Earthquakes are another thing that always concern people who don't actually live here way more than Californians. Not a big impact on quality of life. Most modern construction can handle the sort of earthquake you are likely to encounter, and most of the buildings are only 1 or 2 stories anyway. Wildfire is a concern, but mostly limited to certain areas up in the hills on the periphery of the community.

I guess if you can live and work in that area it would be fine. I've driven up there twice. Been snagged in awful traffic on the Pacific Coast Highway and the...I want to I-10..might be wrong on that, though.

I like the Californian employees rights a lot more than other states. I'll give it that.

I know what you say about the beach. I've had a pool at my beckon call right under my balcony for 4 years. I've been in it twice.

We get wildfires here and crime...lots and lots of violent crime. Which I know is a problem in parts of California too..the parts I could probably afford! Most people I know in Phoenix moved from California or New England.

Wompa1

Suaimhneach wrote: »

@keithclancy, I think a lot of what you're saying is important, but you cant live your life now (somewhere between 20-50?) planning for when you're 70, right? I mean, ABSOLUTELY, plan and consider it, but dont make life decisions based on something that may or may not happen in 40 years?

I'm in the Bay Area and recently went to a Baby Shower (my first!) in Atherton - now there is a place where money and (no) water restrictions and the "America Dream" have gone wild. It was like someone had a cheat code in a Sims plot. Gorgeous, but surreal.

I think a lot of the small gorgeous towns along highway 1 are 100% pretentious, but that's because they're intentionally designed that way. It's a weird place to live.

The class system is plain to see here too. You see homeless people getting rushed out of Scottsdale and left to their own volition in downtown Phoenix or Tempe..it's a strange one

InTheTrees

Anachrony wrote: »

Bah, water. We have enough water for human usage. It's not like people are dehydrated and unable to bathe.

The south west is in year four of a historic drought.

Betting on El Nino this winter is serious desperation at this point.

statina

A lot of people have mentioned they will be taking a paycut to come home. Anyone have any tips on how to stop freaking out over this?!!

While I want to move home to be closer to my family and friends, I am second guessing my decision when I think about the reduction in wages (at least 30%), which therefore will have a big impact on my savings rate...which then affects my choices for the future. Beginning to think of the option of staying on for another year (even though im not particularly happy and it would be purely for the money aspect) But then I think to myself, that's not a great reason to stay and life is too short to stay in a place where you're not really happy

Gah, I sometimes hate having to make adult decisions

Wompa1

statina wrote: »

A lot of people have mentioned they will be taking a paycut to come home. Anyone have any tips on how to stop freaking out over this?!!

While I want to move home to be closer to my family and friends, I am second guessing my decision when I think about the reduction in wages (at least 30%), which therefore will have a big impact on my savings rate...which then affects my choices for the future. Beginning to think of the option of staying on for another year (even though im not particularly happy and it would be purely for the money aspect) But then I think to myself, that's not a great reason to stay and life is too short to stay in a place where you're not really happy

Gah, I sometimes hate having to make adult decisions

I'm not happy about staying for any length of time but I'm resigned to staying for at least 4 years. 1 year wouldn't be so bad....I'm working to build a nest egg.

Oh, Also...if you're in high demand wherever you are..you could do what I'm going to try to do. Work remote for a US company.

Anachrony

InTheTrees wrote: »

Betting on El Nino this winter is serious desperation at this point.

If you are concerned about the health of your lawn, maybe. That's not the end of the world if you aren't working in agriculture. And I didn't say El Nino is the only answer. I indicated that it's very likely to make further steps superfluous before they can be implemented, but we're still pursuing the alternatives just in case.

The city is moving forward on restarting the desalination plant; they built it during the last major multi-year drought 25 years ago, but by the time it was operational the weather had changed, and history is looking likely to repeat itself. Israel gets a large percentage of their water from desalination, in a very dry climate, so it can be done. My neighborhood is jointly investing in a purified greywater system for landscaping, and other cities have been working on water reclamation schemes which are still a future possibility for Santa Barbara in a prolonged drought.

Santa Barbara is also leading California in successfully reducing water use.

Suaimhneach

statina wrote: »

A lot of people have mentioned they will be taking a paycut to come home. Anyone have any tips on how to stop freaking out over this?!!

While I want to move home to be closer to my family and friends, I am second guessing my decision when I think about the reduction in wages (at least 30%), which therefore will have a big impact on my savings rate...which then affects my choices for the future. Beginning to think of the option of staying on for another year (even though im not particularly happy and it would be purely for the money aspect) But then I think to myself, that's not a great reason to stay and life is too short to stay in a place where you're not really happy

Gah, I sometimes hate having to make adult decisions

A lot of people have given good advice in this thread but the best (imo, and worked for me) was to set a target (either date or $$$) and then stick to it.

If one more year would double your savings, or change the kind of jobs you can get back home, may be worth it. If not, then like you, I think going home is the right choice.

Wompa1 wrote: »

I'm not happy about staying for any length of time but I'm resigned to staying for at least 4 years. 1 year wouldn't be so bad....I'm working to build a nest egg.

Oh, Also...if you're in high demand wherever you are..you could do what I'm going to try to do. Work remote for a US company.

Oh now there's an idea. How does that work? What have you figured out so far? I am in tech, but I'm not an engineer. Might work for me too, maybe.

FURET

statina wrote: »

A lot of people have mentioned they will be taking a paycut to come home. Anyone have any tips on how to stop freaking out over this?!!

While I want to move home to be closer to my family and friends, I am second guessing my decision when I think about the reduction in wages (at least 30%), which therefore will have a big impact on my savings rate...which then affects my choices for the future. Beginning to think of the option of staying on for another year (even though im not particularly happy and it would be purely for the money aspect) But then I think to myself, that's not a great reason to stay and life is too short to stay in a place where you're not really happy

Gah, I sometimes hate having to make adult decisions

You have to ask yourself what your long-term plan is.

• Where do you want to be (in terms of life and finances) in 10 and 20 years' time? (Yes, you should be thinking this far ahead, if for no other reason than that it's a useful exercise)
• How much money will you need to get there?
• Where will this money be more easily earned?
• How important are savings to you, with respect to achieving the outcome answered in question 1?
• And finally - why do you want to go back to Ireland so much?

Only you can answer these questions. You need to define where you want to be in life, and then design strategies to get you to that place. Strategy A - you stay abroad. How does this affect your ability to reach your 10-year goal? Strategy B - you repatriate. How does this affect your ability to reach your goal?

Once you know what you're aiming for and why you're aiming for it, planning and decision-making becomes easier.

Wompa1

Suaimhneach wrote: »

Oh now there's an idea. How does that work? What have you figured out so far? I am in tech, but I'm not an engineer. Might work for me too, maybe.

I was actually messaging somebody on this thread about it. He did the same thing. Essentially, get your employer to agree to it and agree to pay you in euros then go self employed in Ireland.

I'm working 3 jobs at the moment. 1 of which is part time for a startup company. They want to expand into Europe. The CEO said he'd like to setup in the Netherlands or Ireland. If he sets up in Ireland, I could work out of there..easy. If not, I should be able to work remote and maybe go to the office in the Netherlands a couple of times a month.

I think it should be possible to get that kind of job if you're in high demand. I'm working in virtualization. I've got 9 years experience which means I was basically working with this stuff since it's inception. I've also got some awards that help make me standout. So that helps me a lot.

astonaidan

Coming home from Toronto in one month, got offered PR with two companies but talked it over with my girlfriend and well we decided we couldnt do another Canadian winter
Kinda getting nervous as I dont know what Im going to do when I go home

Wompa1

astonaidan wrote: »

Coming home from Toronto in one month, got offered PR with two companies but talked it over with my girlfriend and well we decided we couldnt do another Canadian winter
Kinda getting nervous as I dont know what Im going to do when I go home

Keep your chin up and focus on the positives, I say.

Otherwise you might quickly find yourself regretting it. It's a great move and I envy you. There's of course things which are better elsewhere but there's a lot more I miss

Suaimhneach

September is a nice month to move back - not too winter-y yet, still bright late enough
Good time to go job hunting too.

I've a friend who just returned from three years away (one in new york, two in toronto) and she rented short term accommodation (found on daft) for three months, and managed to get a job (architect) within two weeks. She's hoping to find a place to rent for a year pretty soon. Was very impressed at her speed, but she basically didnt meet any friends until she had all that sorted, no break at all.

When we go back I hope to take some time off and have time to shop around, but I have a bit more flexibility than she does. If we had our own forum (shameless plug for forum idea "Coming Home" forum, for Irish Immigrants") hopefully we could support each other on these journeys

Undertow

Suaimhneach wrote: »

September is a nice month to move back - not too winter-y yet, still bright late enough
Good time to go job hunting too.

I've a friend who just returned from three years away (one in new york, two in toronto) and she rented short term accommodation (found on daft) for three months, and managed to get a job (architect) within two weeks. She's hoping to find a place to rent for a year pretty soon. Was very impressed at her speed, but she basically didnt meet any friends until she had all that sorted, no break at all.

When we go back I hope to take some time off and have time to shop around, but I have a bit more flexibility than she does. If we had our own forum (shameless plug for forum idea "Coming Home" forum, for Irish Immigrants") hopefully we could support each other on these journeys

That's really uplifting news to hear mate! I'm going to be back home in next April and feeling pretty nervous about finding work (I'm an Engineer), so to hear an architect got work in 2 weeks gives me a boost! Should also be a good month to be looking for work coming into the summer months. Not that there was much of a summer back home this year from what I've heard!

How much do you guys think is a good safety buffer financially to bring home? The dollar is just collapsing at the moment, and I'm losing a lot as each day goes by! Depressing! Hopefully I have enough to get myself set up again.

Suaimhneach

Hopefully if the forums comes to life we can put a lot more into this, but I think you could manage really low budget, if you're willing to skip on a bunch of stuff.

Costs that I can think of, off the top of my head:

- Flight home (fly at a not-peak time, take connections to save money)
- Accommodation on return (assuming you dont want to / cant stay with friends or family)
- Time without income / while job searching (you could take temp/any work until you get desired work, or do a lot of work before coming home to try secure a role)
- Cost of living budget for time without job (dependent on whether you're staying with family or not)
- Cost of adjusting to home (new rain jacket? decent pair of boots...?!)
- Taxes (doing them in two countries for year sucks)
- Car / Insurance

Glad I could share some news that helps. The $ might be up by the time you're going back,

Wompa1

Suaimhneach wrote: »

Hopefully if the forums comes to life we can put a lot more into this, but I think you could manage really low budget, if you're willing to skip on a bunch of stuff.

Costs that I can think of, off the top of my head:

- Flight home (fly at a not-peak time, take connections to save money)
- Accommodation on return (assuming you dont want to / cant stay with friends or family)
- Time without income / while job searching (you could take temp/any work until you get desired work, or do a lot of work before coming home to try secure a role)
- Cost of living budget for time without job (dependent on whether you're staying with family or not)
- Cost of adjusting to home (new rain jacket? decent pair of boots...?!)
- Taxes (doing them in two countries for year sucks)
- Car / Insurance

Glad I could share some news that helps. The $ might be up by the time you're going back,

If you've got a Pet, that can add to the price a bit.

If you can at all. Get a family member or friend to pick you up at the airport. Renting a car in Ireland is stupid expensive

keithclancy

Wompa1 wrote: »

If you've got a Pet, that can add to the price a bit.

If you can at all. Get a family member or friend to pick you up at the airport. Renting a car in Ireland is stupid expensive

Car rental in Ireland is the cheapest out of almost any country I've rented in.

I rent a car for usually around 10-15 euros per day, this weekend it's costing me 13.89 a day.

Tom Dunne

keithclancy wrote: »

Car rental in Ireland is the cheapest out of almost any country I've rented in.

I rent a car for usually around 10-15 euros per day, this weekend it's costing me 13.89 a day.

Sorry to go off topic, but yes, it is the cheapest. Until they swindle you into taking out extra items that are not made clear to you at the time of booking.

I have been stung on more than one occasion by car rental companies and their "hidden extras" in Ireland.

Kevhog1988

ok, land behind my homeplace is going up for auction in October. Has anyone any experience of gettng a bank loan in Ireland whilst income is earned overseas???

Wompa1

keithclancy wrote: »

Car rental in Ireland is the cheapest out of almost any country I've rented in.

I rent a car for usually around 10-15 euros per day, this weekend it's costing me 13.89 a day.

If you're coming from the States or moving back to Ireland. You won't have your own insurance to cover a rental. You'll need to pay for the insurance. Ireland has a legal minimum.

I've been f*cked every time I've rented a car going back without insurance.

My sister did the same and paid 600 euro for a few days. It's not the rental car, it's the insurance through the rental agency. If you look it up online they say Ireland and Italy are two of the most expensive due to the high rate of accidents for tourits

BailMeOut

Wompa1 wrote: »

If you're coming from the States or moving back to Ireland. You won't have your own insurance to cover a rental. You'll need to pay for the insurance. Ireland has a legal minimum.

I've been f*cked every time I've rented a car going back without insurance.

My sister did the same and paid 600 euro for a few days. It's not the rental car, it's the insurance through the rental agency. If you look it up online they say Ireland and Italy are two of the most expensive due to the high rate of accidents for tourits

The trick is to purchase car hire excess insurance from a 3rd party. That saves you a lot of money when renting cars here.

Wompa1

BailMeOut wrote: »

The trick is to purchase car hire excess insurance from a 3rd party. That saves you a lot of money when renting cars here.

LINK!!? That would be amazing if there's a cheaper way. I've had to stop renting because it was costing too much. The last couple of times I just refused to pick up the car because the price quoted vs the price when I got there were two very different things. F'kin Hertz!

BailMeOut

Wompa1 wrote: »

LINK!!? That would be amazing if there's a cheaper way. I've had to stop renting because it was costing too much. The last couple of times I just refused to pick up the car because the price quoted vs the price when I got there were two very different things. F'kin Hertz!

There loads and remember they just cover the excess which is how the rental companies really screw you. I also understand that some USA credit cards are covering this again for Ireland. For years they were not.

http://www.carhireexcess.ie/
https://www.aig.ie/personal/car-hire-excess-insurance
https://www.axacarhireexcess.ie/
(google for more)

Lastly I rented cars in Ireland over 20 years and always found the best deals on Nova - http://www.novacarhire.com/

Wompa1

BailMeOut wrote: »

There loads and remember they just cover the excess which is how the rental companies really screw you. I also understand that some USA credit cards are covering this again for Ireland. For years they were not.

http://www.carhireexcess.ie/
https://www.aig.ie/personal/car-hire-excess-insurance
https://www.axacarhireexcess.ie/
(google for more)

Lastly I rented cars in Ireland over 20 years and always found the best deals on Nova - http://www.novacarhire.com/

I owe you a great debt. I tried 3 different rental car companies over the last few years. Each f*cked me. Is there anybody I can kill for you to repay my debt!?