N5 - Ballaghaderreen to Scramoge [construction to commence shortly]

theoneeyedman

theoneeyedman wrote: »

No minister that is looking for votes from Roscommon, Mayo, or anywhere West or North of Tullamore really. Can't see any of them pushing money into this tbh

I thin that could be a problem with everything for the next 5 years. If your looking for funding outside of Dublin & Cork forget about it.
https://westernpeople.ie/2020/06/28/a-cabinet-fit-for-cromwell/#.XvkcJG1KjX6

Leonard Hofstadter

The Super Junior for Roads (and other things) is from Galway. She said on RTÉ Radio 1 today that Galway bypass and M20 were among her priorities for roads.

This is surely a far less contentious road than either of the above for the Greens, and far cheaper to boot, so there is no danger of it using up all of the 1/3 part of the roads / public transport split - which in any case only comes in after the maintenance budget has been allocated, and therefore relates to the ratio of capital spending not the full roads / public transport spending.

So, I wouldn't be all doom and gloom about it just yet;).

marno21

Deleted User wrote: »

I thin that could be a problem with everything for the next 5 years. If your looking for funding outside of Dublin & Cork forget about it.
https://westernpeople.ie/2020/06/28/a-cabinet-fit-for-cromwell/#.XvkcJG1KjX6

Since FG took over in 2011, there have been 13 major roads projects completed and 3 are currently under constructions. 3 of these 16 projects have been on the N5, or just under a fifth. If this project goes ahead, which it is likely to given it is the only project that actually can start this side of 2023, that will make it 4 from 17. The N5 has done very well in recent years and it may be time to concentrate on other roads also. I don't believe it's right to criticise a day old Government yet either.

Cosmo Kramer

To be fair, the condition of the N5 relative to the other N1 up to N11 roads necessitated that. It had been badly neglected previously.

I would agree though that if this stretch is done alongside Westport - Castlebar East the N5 would finally be pretty much sorted. The only major remaining issue would be Termonbarry but that can be lived with.

That said, I currently have little confidence that this will now be pushed through given the ministerial appointments. Will be interesting to see what is in the junior ministerial announcements but while there will probably be a token gesture after all the bad PR this weekend I think the damage has already been done for the west and north west.

DumbBrunette

I hope you're wrong Cosmo.

I think that as the tender process has started and there are feck all road projects that are shovel-ready it's very unlikely Cabinet would refuse to approve awarding the tender. It would be almost unprecedented at this stage of the process.

Bear in mind also that even if they did want to block it, the Greens have very few votes at Cabinet anyway.

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

To be fair, the condition of the N5 relative to the other N1 up to N11 roads necessitated that. It had been badly neglected previously.

I would agree though that if this stretch is done alongside Westport - Castlebar East the N5 would finally be pretty much sorted. The only major remaining issue would be Termonbarry but that can be lived with.

That said, I currently have little confidence that this will now be pushed through given the ministerial appointments. Will be interesting to see what is in the junior ministerial announcements but while there will probably be a token gesture after all the bad PR this weekend I think the damage has already been done for the west and north west.

steeler j

Would the government not sign off on it just to quieten the talk of no minister in the west

DumbBrunette

They would be pilloried if they don't sign off so maybe yes!!

steeler j wrote: »

Would the government not sign off on it just to quieten the talk of no minister in the west

DumbBrunette

DumbBrunette wrote: »

They would be pilloried if they don't sign off so maybe yes!!

Maybe if they also sign off on the continuation of the M17 from Tuam to beyond Sligo we will forgive them

Geuze

marno21 wrote: »

Since FG took over in 2011, there have been 13 major roads projects completed and 3 are currently under constructions. 3 of these 16 projects have been on the N5, or just under a fifth.

Ballaghderreen bypass

Charlestown bypass??

??

marno21

Geuze wrote: »

Ballaghderreen bypass

Charlestown bypass??

??

Longford bypass

Then Westport-Turlough under construction

joujoujou

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I have very strong feeling N5 Charlestown bypass was finished well before 2011. :rolleyes:

RedDevil55

joujoujou wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I have very strong feeling N5 Charlestown bypass was finished well before 2011. :rolleyes:

Marno said 3/16 projects since 2011 were on n5.

Ballaghaderreen bypass, Longford bypass and Westport-Turlough scheme.

Cosmo Kramer

joujoujou wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I have very strong feeling N5 Charlestown bypass was finished well before 2011. :rolleyes:

You are correct. The three schemes are Ballaghaderreen, Longford and Westport to Castlebar East (no idea why that scheme is still called Westport to Turlough, it no longer extends anywhere near Turlough after the ABP decision five or six years ago).

marno21

My apologies.

Since 2011:

2 built (Longford/Ballaghaderreen) out of 13

1 under construction (Westport-Castlebar) out of 3.

1 through planning from scratch (Ballaghderreen-Scramoge). Unsure of how many here because some were brought through planning during those years and are now under construction. There is a dearth of schemes in this category outstanding, just this and the M28 (in appeal) are with planning and not under construction or near it (Dunkettle).

The N5 did get priority during the Kenny/Ring years. That's not to say the N5 is not deserving of funding or should not be upgraded. However the nations roads in general were neglected during this time and the N5 did receive preferential treatment. I fully agree that the this scheme and the M4 Mullingar-Longford scheme go ahead but there needs to be better equality geographically in terms of capital roads investment.

marno21

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

You are correct. The three schemes are Ballaghaderreen, Longford and Westport to Castlebar East (no idea why that scheme is still called Westport to Turlough, it no longer extends anywhere near Turlough after the ABP decision five or six years ago).

It's just name inheritence as that's how it was filed with ABP and appeared in most literature. A few places have correctly referred to it as the N5 Westport-Castlebar East scheme since the DC retrofitting to Turlough was dropped.

marno21

marno21 wrote: »

My apologies.

Since 2011:

2 built (Longford/Ballaghaderreen) out of 13

1 under construction (Westport-Castlebar) out of 3.

1 through planning from scratch (Ballaghderreen-Scramoge). Unsure of how many here because some were brought through planning during those years and are now under construction. There is a dearth of schemes in this category outstanding, just this and the M28 (in appeal) are with planning and not under construction or near it (Dunkettle).

The N5 did get priority during the Kenny/Ring years. That's not to say the N5 is not deserving of funding or should not be upgraded. However the nations roads in general were neglected during this time and the N5 did receive preferential treatment. I fully agree that the this scheme and the M4 Mullingar-Longford scheme go ahead but there needs to be better equality geographically in terms of capital roads investment.

Simple reason for that, there is no motorway network north of south Galway and west of Mullingar.

This regions roads needed to be improved and are still in a terrible state. The N5 is the wests main artery to Dublin, it should of been upgraded 20 years ago. Our nearest intersection with a motorway is east of Mullingar :eek:

Saying that it got preferential treatment is totally false. The motorway network in the South and east and mid west were finished, then this one road got improvements to sections of a single lane road. We were very last on the list for road improvements. It got to the point that companies were refusing to transport product due to the state of the N5. This is not something most of the rest of the country have to even consider.

RedDevil55

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Simple reason for that, there is no motorway network north of south Galway and west of Mullingar.

This regions roads needed to be improved and are still in a terrible state. The N5 is the wests main artery to Dublin, it should of been upgraded 20 years ago. Our nearest intersection with a motorway is east of Mullingar :eek:

Saying that it got preferential treatment is totally false. The motorway network in the South and east and mid west were finished, then this one road got improvements to sections of a single lane road. We were very last on the list for road improvements. It got to the point that companies were refusing to transport product due to the state of the N5. This is not something most of the rest of the country have to even consider.

In fairness, traffic numbers on the N5 don't justify a motorway. What it needs is a consistent high quality road from Longford to Westport which should exist in a few years time.

Presuming Cloongullane bridge is completed too, we will also have a decent road from Ballina to Dublin.

RedDevil55

RedDevil55 wrote: »

In fairness, traffic numbers on the N5 don't justify a motorway. What it needs is a consistent high quality road from Longford to Westport which should exist in a few years time.

Presuming Cloongullane bridge is completed too, we will also have a decent road from Ballina to Dublin.

Agreed, then the goat track from Knock - Collooney needs attention.

To be specific, it's the main road to Castlebar, Westport and (indirectly) Ballina, and their surrounding regions, (Achill, Erris etc). For someone from Ballinrobe, Claremorris, Ballindine and South Mayo generally, the M17 and M6 are now the main roads to Dublin.

It's also interesting to see how Roscommon Co. Co. has proceeded so rapidly with this scheme since planning permission was granted in late January last year. In circa 18 months it has passed all stages to reach final tender stage, then presumably approval from government, contracts signed and construction starts.

I find it interesting from a strategic and economic point of view because this road doesn't really benefit or serve Roscommon at all. Boyle is just off the N4, South Roscommon is served by the M6 and Roscommon and Castlerea (via the N60 link) use the N61 and ultimately the M6 as well. The population density along the Roscommon section of the N5 is very low and only serves one town worth talking about (Ballaghaderreen), that is itself quite small even by West of Ireland standards.

Aa someone who's from Roscommon, I feel safety has been the overriding concern regarding this route for Roscommon Co Co for years now, and indeed for locals in general. When planning for this project started, there were 5 primary schools located right on this road, with very little scope for improved safety measures. Tibohine NS was included in the Ballaghaderreen bypass, Rathcroghan NS, which was in a particularly dangerous location right alongside the road, has since closed. Three schools remain, however: Frenchpark NS, Ballinagare NS and Tulsk NS. Road safety for these schools is a regular feature in local media. Add to this the Russian roulette that is the N5/N61 cross at Tulsk, the N5/R361 junction at Frenchpark and Scramogue Cross, plus the poor safety record and number of fatalities, and I can see from a safety perspective alone: this road can't come soon enough.

Which brings me to my final point. The only way to win over the Greens on any future road projects like the N5 will be safety. Safety for vulnerable road users, safety for pupils and safety for residents/businesses. It's a complete PR/communications strategy that one might look at cynically but if it achieves its aim of segregating traffic, improving efficiency and reducing deaths and accidents, I think it's a strategy worth pursuing.

DumbBrunette

Great post ^^^

Agreed that safety is the main issue here. The road will save 5 or 10 mins but that's a secondary benefit!

Btw if you live in or near the mini metropolis of Elphin, this road will be life changing

HabibiLibneni wrote: »

To be specific, it's the main road to Castlebar, Westport and (indirectly) Ballina, and their surrounding regions, (Achill, Erris etc). For someone from Ballinrobe, Claremorris, Ballindine and South Mayo generally, the M17 and M6 are now the main roads to Dublin.

It's also interesting to see how Roscommon Co. Co. has proceeded so rapidly with this scheme since planning permission was granted in late January last year. In circa 18 months it has passed all stages to reach final tender stage, then presumably approval from government, contracts signed and construction starts.

I find it interesting from a strategic and economic point of view because this road doesn't really benefit or serve Roscommon at all. Boyle is just off the N4, South Roscommon is served by the M6 and Roscommon and Castlerea (via the N60 link) use the N61 and ultimately the M6 as well. The population density along the Roscommon section of the N5 is very low and only serves one town worth talking about (Ballaghaderreen), that is itself quite small even by West of Ireland standards.

Aa someone who's from Roscommon, I feel safety has been the overriding concern regarding this route for Roscommon Co Co for years now, and indeed for locals in general. When planning for this project started, there were 5 primary schools located right on this road, with very little scope for improved safety measures. Tibohine NS was included in the Ballaghaderreen bypass, Rathcroghan NS, which was in a particularly dangerous location right alongside the road, has since closed. Three schools remain, however: Frenchpark NS, Ballinagare NS and Tulsk NS. Road safety for these schools is a regular feature in local media. Add to this the Russian roulette that is the N5/N61 cross at Tulsk, the N5/R361 junction at Frenchpark and Scramogue Cross, plus the poor safety record and number of fatalities, and I can see from a safety perspective alone: this road can't come soon enough.

Which brings me to my final point. The only way to win over the Greens on any future road projects like the N5 will be safety. Safety for vulnerable road users, safety for pupils and safety for residents/businesses. It's a complete PR/communications strategy that one might look at cynically but if it achieves its aim of segregating traffic, improving efficiency and reducing deaths and accidents, I think it's a strategy worth pursuing.

theoneeyedman

Good post alright, but the absolute horlix they made at the Scramog turn off on the recent 'safety' upgrade wouldn't fill you with confidence. It's more dangerous now than it was.

Covieland

Progress on N5 Ballaghaderreen to Scramoge road project

PROGRESS is being made on the N5 Ballaghaderreen to Scramoge road project, with the main construction design and build contract documents currently being finalised.

Deputy Michael Ring said it is anticipated that the main construction design and build documents will be issued to the candidates meeting the minimum pre-qualification criteria shortly.

Meanwhile, advance works on the project are progressing, including archaeological works, ground investigation, topographical surveys, fencing and hedgerow removal and service diversion works.

The acquisition of lands/properties for the scheme is also being progressed by Roscommon County Council.

Said Deputy Ring: “This project has an estimated total investment cost of circa €200 million. The project received planning approval in May 2019.

“I am pleased to see the upgrade of this section of the road of the N5 is continuing. The money which is there for this project is ring-fenced

Couldn't post link as I'm a new user so copy and paste job, it's from the Connaught telegraph

joujoujou

https://www.con-telegraph.ie/2020/07/22/progress-on-n5-ballaghaderreen-to-scramoge-road-project/

spacetweek

Wow they’re nearly at tender. That’s great!

Cosmo Kramer

Assuming that Michael Ring is correct and the money is ring fenced for this (i.e. out of reach of the Greens) is the first half of 2021 still a likely date for construction work to commence?

DumbBrunette

I think so yes. By way of comparison, for N5WTT the final tenders went out in January and contracts were signed in October, a gap of nine months.

However, at some point later this year when the preferred tenderer has been selected, Eamon Ryan will have to bring this to Cabinet for approval. He'll probably be off sick that day ðŸ˜

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

Assuming that Michael Ring is correct and the money is ring fenced for this (i.e. out of reach of the Greens) is the first half of 2021 still a likely date for construction work to commence?

Geuze

This is a big scheme.

I am correct to say that after it's built, there will be good road, i.e. with hard shoulder, all the way from Longford bypass to Castlebar?

Cosmo Kramer

Geuze wrote: »

This is a big scheme.

I am correct to say that after it's built, there will be good road, i.e. with hard shoulder, all the way from Longford bypass to Castlebar?

Almost, yes, and on to Westport with a dual carriageway. The only exception will be the village of Termonbarry where the road crosses the Shannon, all traffic will still go through the village and can sometimes be stopped to allow the bridge to be raised for passing boats.

user1842

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

Almost, yes, and on to Westport with a dual carriageway. The only exception will be the village of Termonbarry where the road crosses the Shannon, all traffic will still go through the village and can sometimes be stopped to allow the bridge to be raised for passing boats.

What is left is to fix the N26 to Ballina (a poor road). No need for a new road for the N26, an good in-line upgrade would do.

riddlinrussell

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

Almost, yes, and on to Westport with a dual carriageway. The only exception will be the village of Termonbarry where the road crosses the Shannon, all traffic will still go through the village and can sometimes be stopped to allow the bridge to be raised for passing boats.

Is there any proposed 'long-finger' plan for Termonbarry? Looks like you would have to shift the road a reasonable bit either direction to get a clear crossing point?