Mothers of abuse victims siding with abusers.

darkdubh

One thing I've noticed in several sex abuse cases that have gone to trial in this country recently are cases where the mother of the victim/s knew about the case and either did nothing or worse punished the victim for reporting it.The Fiona Doyle case being a prime example and that horrific case in The West Of Ireland where one of the teenage children walked in on the mothers partner abusing their baby sibling.It seems to be more common than we'd care to think,very hard to understand the thinking behind this.

PandaPoo

I have first hand experience of it unfortunately. I'm not quite sure why it happens, in my case they're still together and have even gotten married.

Strange really.

NachoBusiness

Any parent that is show to have known about abuse taking place and failed to report it, should be charged also.

Cold War Kid

PandaPoo wrote: »

I have first hand experience of it unfortunately.

Shyte, that's horrible... :-/

Is it denial/delusion/blind loyality I wonder? "No way could the person I love be capable of such a thing" kinda dealie?

Robsweezie

If you've seen the movie "Precious" it shines a light on this kinda thing. Sickening betrayal of trust by someone who's first instinct should be to protect their child.

cloud493

My mother was like that. I don't know why, I never knew, but she always said I deserved what I got. Weird people.

PandaPoo

Cold War Kid wrote: »

Shyte, that's horrible... :-/

Is it denial/delusion/blind loyality I wonder? "No way could the person I love be capable of such a thing" kinda dealie?

I'm not sure to be honest, my case is quite unusual but she would get very angry at anyone blaming him, when the dog on the street knew it was him.

darkdubh

Robsweezie wrote: »

If you've seen the movie "Precious" it shines a light on this kinda thing. Sickening betrayal of trust by someone who's first instinct should be to protect their child.

I was reading about the Fiona Doyle case today and it detailed how her mother used to beat her and call her "the other woman" which is almost a carbon copy of what the mother in Precious was doing.A horrible example of life imitating art.

Chucken

Cold War Kid wrote: »

Shyte, that's horrible... :-/

Is it denial/delusion/blind loyality I wonder? "No way could the person I love be capable of such a thing" kinda dealie?

I imagine it's part this. Mothers who would have been abused themselves and never dealt with it and mothers who never heard of child abuse and can't imagine it.

silverfeather

I think in the cases of the older siblings its fear and mitigated responsibility. That is different.
To disengage from your entire family is difficult anyway but particularly if they are narcissistic and abusive.

Misplaced loyalty and trust is common in abused children.

Mothers etc Not everyone is ready to face the truth about their own past.

There are characteristic ways in which these abusers operate in any relationship they are authoritarian. And they seek women who will be weak or numb or even sociopathic

They undermine the victim and put themselves as the only credible person in the family. They use money or social relationships to cut all the family off from the outside they use emotional control etc.

They use manipulation.

For the mothers It may be easier to accept denial than the guilt of having failed to protect their children.

TO be honest I could never understand it. It's easier to presume that the child is lying or overeating than she has been sleeping with a man who was raping her child. That she gave that man love etc. It's easier to think the child is mistaken than the man is a raping pervert. Or it's easier to minimize what that really is.

They can be ignorant of familial abuse. The abuser often ONLY TARGETS ONE CHILD and this is to discredit the child. He can say 'well none of the other are saying this ' etc.

It's easier the abused is unwell or something. They would have to change their whole life to believe this. They feel for a lie. Everything was a lie.

As for victims of any sort anyone who turns on you (or tries to sweep stuff under the rug) when you expose your abuse should be out of your life. They will only serve to damage your psychological recovery.

Robsweezie

darkdubh wrote:

I was reading about the Fiona Doyle case today and it detailed how her mother used to beat her and call her "the other woman" which is almost a carbon copy of what the mother in Precious was doing.A horrible example of life imitating art.

Yep, she called her daughter a little **** on her communion day because She was withdrawn and physically uncomfortable from her abuse the night before. Just unbelievable.

silverfeather

I have no experience with child abuse. I have no doubt that either of my parents would have moved heaven or earth to protect me or my brother.

It's difficult to imagine unless you have seen it.

Junkyard Tom

Is there such a crime as 'accessory to sexual abuse'?

silverfeather

Robsweezie wrote: »

Yep, she called her daughter a little **** on her communion day because She was withdrawn and physically uncomfortable from her abuse the night before. Just unbelievable.

I think is some cases two very ill and evil people get together because it serves them to. In that case the woman was pure evil .

silverfeather

Junkyard Cat wrote: »

Is there such a thing as 'accessory to sexual abuse'?

I am not sure if in Ireland there is or not.

silverfeather

darkdubh wrote: »

I was reading about the Fiona Doyle case today and it detailed how her mother used to beat her and call her "the other woman" which is almost a carbon copy of what the mother in Precious was doing.A horrible example of life imitating art.

It's enough to make you sick actually.

In previous generations many women were under the financial control of their husbands, and anything that rocked the boat put the entire families security at risk. They needed the earner to keep earning or they were destitute, so blowing the whistle on the earner as an abuser gave the mother a grave dilemma that she might have consciously or unconsciously sought to avoid by simply disbelieving the child, and shooting the messenger. And of course there was the gossip factor, in insular Ireland of a generation ago the shame of having an abuser in the family tainted the entire clan, so keeping the child quiet about the abuse was paramount. Parents didn't believe or chose not to believe that priests were abusing their altar boy sons either, I suppose the shame factor was at work there too.

And some are just too selfish or abusive themselves to care. And vice versa, where the mother is the abuser and the father ignores it to keep the family unit running.

I have heard this from a former close friend who has been abused. Mostly for the sake of the family image, and for self preservation.

foggy_lad

I can only imagine that in some cases the wife of an abuser would have married him when very young because he liked young looking girls even years ago.

He then looks after her for a short while and she gets pregnant but then everything changes. She is not his little girl anymore, she is just another woman because she has had a child and is now too old for to satisfy his desires.

His behaviour may change to a severe mental abuse that causes a dependence to build up in her. Like if you tell someone often enough they are only a stupud and fat lazy cow that can't get any thing right and they would be lying dead in a ditch if you hadn't looked after then out of pity they will start to believe that themselves, the same shlt that the nuns used on the laundry girls to keep them subservient. They are basically left pregnant barefoot and chained to the sink but of course appearances are kept up for the neighbours and family etc.

identer

I believe it more mental than just basic reasoning. The mother should the examined and if not sick, should be punished by the law.

eviltwin

Personal experience of it too. It's not all that unusual unfortunately.

folamh

Some parents, especially Irish Catholic parents, simply don't want to believe that bad things happen. Violence, sexual abuse, addiction and depression are not appropriate discussion topics. Blocking your ears and going lalala is not a phenomenon that's unique to parents, but it's most pernicious in parents. Justice can go to hell as long as peace and quiet is maintained. If siding with the abuser helps keep the peace, they'll do it, even if their own children are at risk.

foxy06

Subject close to home and in my case the mother was just a selfish horrible bitch. It's weird how the victim is made feel guilty for the actions of the abuser and then by others for cutting off the relationship with the mother.

Victor

Junkyard Cat wrote: »

Is there such a crime as 'accessory to sexual abuse'?

Not specifically, but there are various child abuse / neglect charges that can be levelled.

I think there are various reasons, some of which are alluded to above. Another one would be where the mother is a victim of the abuse themselves. Abusers of all kinds seek out victims that won't talk or otherwise endanger the abuser.

Note that not all abusers are male.

Cold War Kid

The siblings in the Dalkey case accused the woman at the centre of it of being a liar. It's amazing what denial and delusion and twisted self protection can do to people.

Junkyard Cat wrote: »

Is there such a crime as 'accessory to sexual abuse'?

Fiona is, I think, pursuing the "wreckless endangerment" line. Her mother is truly disgusting by all accounts.

Turning a blind eye, aiding and abetting - this helps to empower abusers and helps abuse flourish. I think the Edmund Burke quote is flawed - not all "good men" have the means or influence to do anything, but when those men and women do, but choose not to, it's unforgivable.

tritium

In many cases they're as bad as the primary abuser. Unfortunately the law hasn't fully recognised this. Its one thing to not believe a child, cometely another to know it happened, maybe even saw or heard it happen, or even facilitate it and refuse to do anything

darkdubh

The same depressing story again.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/man-who-sexually-abused-stepdaughters-jailed-for-eight-years-girls-mother-stands-by-her-husband-34184475.html

allibastor

Its why I think we should have a purge night every year.

Some people just dont deserve to live if you can inflict horrible acts on others.

brevity

Should not had read that article.

What absolute animals. The mother should be locked away as well.

seamus

This is unfortunately how abusers typically manoeuvre themselves into the situation which gives them the power to abuse in the first place. It's rarely straight up physical abuse, there's emotional abuse and emotional and social manipulation, a concerted covering of one's tracks and setting up the ability to "offset" the potential fallout of any accusation.

This occurs both at the small scale - such as this scenario where the father has convinced his wife and sons that the daughters in the family are lying harlots - but also at the large scale where entire countries are led to believe that Jimmy Saville and Rolf Harris are great and wonderful people, above any ability to do wrong.

Seth Brundle

brevity wrote: »

Should not had read that article.

What absolute animals. The mother should be locked away as well.

Fair play to the two of them for naming and shaming the POS.
From the article, it looks like their brothers also do not believe their story.

Samaris

kbannon wrote: »

Fair play to the two of them for naming and shaming the POS.
From the article, it looks like their brothers also do not believe their story.

From the looks of it, the two brothers (half-brothers) are much younger and were kept away from the older girls. All they probably know is that the older ones ran away and there was some big fuss over something and/or it was all lies. Poor kids there too; someday they're probably going to have to face it, and how do you face that your father and your shared mother abused these strangers that are related by blood, but not raised together as any sort of family? Even more so when you've almost certainly been taught that they were bad girls and liars, and you were, presumably, treated with love and affection yourself by these same people, your own parents.

Edit: But yeah, it sounds like they were very courageous in surviving that and being able to come forward and fight for their story to be known, especially the older one who ran away aged 18 with a 13-yr-old sister to protect.

Junkyard Tom

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Is there such a crime as 'accessory to sexual abuse'?

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2006/act/26/section/176/enacted/en/html

Reckless endangerment of children

...

[subsection] (2) A person, having authority or control over a child or abuser, who intentionally or recklessly endangers a child by—

(a) causing or permitting any child to be placed or left in a situation which creates a substantial risk to the child of being a victim of serious harm or sexual abuse, or

(b) failing to take reasonable steps to protect a child from such a risk while knowing that the child is in such a situation,

is guilty of an offence.

Where a person is charged with an offence under subsection (2), no further proceedings in the matter (other than any remand in custody or on bail) shall be taken except by or with the consent of the Director of Public Prosecutions.

Up to the DPP. I wonder why it's not pursued more often.

Son Of A Vidic

NachoBusiness wrote: »

Any parent that is show to have known about abuse taking place and failed to report it, should be charged also.

I completely agree with you Nacho. For any individual to know about abuse and to then ignore it & turn a blind eye to it. They should at least face a charge of aiding and abetting or possibly obstruction of justice (subject to each individual case circumstances). The family & family home should be the safest sanctuary for any child and if any nation is really serious about child protection. Then the people who stand by and do nothing or fail to act on cries for help, should face more significant consequences than they currently do.

arayess

Deleted User wrote: »

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2006/act/26/section/176/enacted/en/html

Up to the DPP. I wonder why it's not pursued more often.

it's only a relatively new law , probably most of these people who know about this abuse are from cases prior to the law so it wasn't a crime at the time.

Going forward I can see Its may hard to prove a case unless it was proven they were present at the abuse.
They (as in this case) could claim they just genuinely didn't believe the child.
sad as that sounds.

sullivlo

I'd say it is a factor in why many cases of CSA go unreported - fear of being abandoned by your family.

OldNotWIse

As I've grown up (and older) I have started to suspect that my parents knew about my abuse. I try not to dwell on it because I don't want to hate them, but I suspect that when I have my own children, I probably will hate them, because I will know what it is like to love and protect a child with your life. A child should be protected and it doesn't matter if you want to play happy family or protect your spouse or your other children, a child should be protected and anybody who fails to do so is complicit.

cassid

A friend of my mothers, her hubby sexually abused 2 of his daughters. The wife stayed with him, he is dead now, and you would think he was Jesus the way she talks about him. The abuse is never mentioned and the abused daughters and mother get on well together. I don't know how they have any relationship with her for covering his dirty tracks for years.

As a mother I don't understand how you could stay with someone who abused your child, how can you let a scumbag who did that to children lie next to you in bed and how you would not do everything in your power to protect your child. I would give up my life in a second to protect my children.

Sorry to read about your abuse Oldnotwise xx

whatismyname

Really hopes this happens

Sisters sexually abused by stepfather want charges brought against their mother

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/sisters-sexually-abused-by-stepfather-want-charges-brought-against-their-mother-704958.html

Two sisters who were sexually abused by their stepfather over a 10-year period say they would like to see charges brought against their mother who they say never believed that he abused them.

Vanessa Witherow said that she and her sister will be closely watching the case of rape survivor Fiona Doyle, whose mother was arrested after her father was convicted of abuse.

Vanessa Witherow said: "There could possibly be (charges) - the guards had to deal with John Joe first…It's further down the line," she said.

Speaking in court yesterday, Emma Witherow broke down as she described how her mother still refuses to believe the abuse occurred.

"She totally denied everything she heard, and said I was only attention-seeking," she said.

"I went to my mother for help as a child should be able to do, but she gave me no help and ignored my plea," Emma said.

Totally think these two women are fantastic, and should be very proud of themselves.

PLL

My mother let her boyfriend abuse me (physically/mentally). I'm 25 now, left home at 18. Haven't spoken to her since I left. I honestly believe some people's brain's arent wired correctly, she still believes nothing was wrong.

The worst part is my culchie family who don't understand how I'd have any reason not to talk to my mother (I grew up in a city). Some respect your parents no matter how much they do wrong mentality. Its just wrong.

I now have a 4 year old daughter myself which makes it more incomprehensible that my mother let the things happen to me, happen.

If anyone went near my daughter they would get a hurl to the face.

whatismyname

PLL wrote: »

Some respect your parents no matter how much they do wrong mentality. Its just wrong.

Couldn't agree more with that.

I broke contact with my mother many, many years ago and never intend seeing her again. This will genuinely be no loss to me, and she deserves no part in my life.

Just because she happened to get pregnant with me, give birth to me and raise me for a number of years means nothing given the appalling upbringing she gave me.

Hannibal Smith

Sometimes I wish there was someone else involved in what happened to me so theres someone else I could deliver a slap to now. But as there was only him and me, and he's dead...there was only one other person compliant in it all to direct my anger at...and thats me!

I dont know how a parent could stand by and allow it to continue. I cant stand seeing a kid struggle at anything, to think a kid was trying to cope with abuse and I did nothing to help. I dont know how you could live with yourself. I dont believe there are any excuses, financial or whatever. You're talking about your child's safety and actually letting someone inflict pain on them. One parent allowing the other, or anyone else, to do it is something I cant get my head around at all.

Robsweezie

An enabler is as bad as a perpetrator.

drunkmonkey

NachoBusiness wrote: »

Any parent that is show to have known about abuse taking place and failed to report it, should be charged also.

And what of a Garda that failed to act when reported? The crap is going to hit the fan today about the ex minister.

vicwatson

NachoBusiness wrote: »

Any parent that is show to have known about abuse taking place and failed to report it, should be charged also.

Agreed. This should be straight forward Ffs. They are as bad as the perpetrators.

drunkmonkey wrote: »

And what of a Garda that failed to act when reported? The crap is going to hit the fan today about the ex minister.

It should, but will it really? This is Ireland so it won't, dudes will sail off into the sunset like always.

vicwatson

Also don't get how wives stand by their husbands when charged and convicted of having possession of child pornography. If it was my husband or wife they'd be on the first bus out of my home.

sbsquarepants

PandaPoo wrote: »

I have first hand experience of it unfortunately. I'm not quite sure why it happens, in my case they're still together and have even gotten married.

Strange really.

PandaPoo wrote: »

I'm not sure to be honest, my case is quite unusual but she would get very angry at anyone blaming him, when the dog on the street knew it was him.

PLL wrote: »

My mother let her boyfriend abuse me (physically/mentally). I'm 25 now, left home at 18. Haven't spoken to her since I left. I honestly believe some people's brain's arent wired correctly, she still believes nothing was wrong.

The worst part is my culchie family who don't understand how I'd have any reason not to talk to my mother (I grew up in a city). Some respect your parents no matter how much they do wrong mentality. Its just wrong.

I now have a 4 year old daughter myself which makes it more incomprehensible that my mother let the things happen to me, happen.

If anyone went near my daughter they would get a hurl to the face.

Jesus Christ - I think stories like this just expose that some people are just made "wrong"
The world is a god awful shítty place at times but when it comes right down to it there are certain people you should ALWAYS be able to turn to and your mother should be at the very top of that list.
Some things are just unforgiveable.

BattleCorp

The sentences for these types of crimes aren't long enough.

Some of these kids have been sexually assaulted and raped hundreds of times, the abuse lasting many years.

How in the name of Jaysus can someone only get a 7 year sentence for something like this (multiple offences)?

7 years per offence maybe (which still isn't enough to be honest) x 100 offences = 700 years which is appropriate in my eyes. And it shouldn't be 700 years in a cushy jail, it should be hard labour.

There's no amends that anybody can make for raping a child.

BattleCorp

vicwatson wrote: »

Also don't get how wives stand by their husbands when charged and convicted of having possession of child pornography. If it was my husband or wife they'd be on the first bus out of my home.

Under the bus would be better.

Azalea

Robsweezie wrote: »

An enabler is as bad as a perpetrator.

Not sure they're as bad. Nobody is as bad as the abuser in my opinion. But the enabler is a very close second.

whatismyname

Azalea wrote: »

Not sure they're as bad. Nobody is as bad as the abuser in my opinion. But the enabler is a very close second.

Yes, a very, very close second.

For me, my mother would never, ever be quite as bad as my abuser, given what he did.

But at the same time, there's a part within me that does feel she's 'as bad' because she was my mother, and it was her duty to protect me, and not let that happen, and certainly not to turn a blind eye.

And I know that even if she's not 'as bad', the massive failure on her part on that, and throughout my childhood more generally, has almost certainly had as much of an impact on my emotional development as a child and my mental health as an adult as what my abuser did.