Dublin Bus and bank notes

Shelflife

So up in the big smoke for the day with the Mrs and decided to nip into the city centre, had the correct money for the fare €5.10 and went to pay the driver.
Sorry says he we don't take notes, I look at him in surprise and he says dud you not know that ? I said sorry no, how would I when I'm only up for the day.
So I stand there looking at him and he says go on sure put the money in there (the coin slot) but it'll be stuck in there all week,
Now the driver himself was a pleasant enough fella , but would another driver have left us on the side of the road?
Found it a strange policy, surely they can operate a system where they can take notes. I know that they don't give change but this was a new one on me !

loyatemu

they haven't taken notes for years (ever?)

from the website:

"Please make sure that you have the correct change to pay for your fare. All our services are exact fare only and the driver cannot accept Euro notes or give change."

foggy_lad

Shelflife wrote: »

So up in the big smoke for the day with the Mrs and decided to nip into the city centre, had the correct money for the fare €5.10 and went to pay the driver.
Sorry says he we don't take notes, I look at him in surprise and he says dud you not know that ? I said sorry no, how would I when I'm only up for the day.
So I stand there looking at him and he says go on sure put the money in there (the coin slot) but it'll be stuck in there all week,
Now the driver himself was a pleasant enough fella , but would another driver have left us on the side of the road?
Found it a strange policy, surely they can operate a system where they can take notes. I know that they don't give change but this was a new one on me !

Dublin bus have operated this coin only policy for many many years due to the number of attacks on drivers during thefts from buses. At the moment the cash box is bolted to the floor and would also be very heavy with the weight of coins for some scumbag to run off with it, If they were to switch to taking notes again theft of the cashbox or even the whole bus would become worth the risk for the money to the scumbags.

Also that driver can be reprimanded for accepting notes and if he had taken the note from you to hand in at the end of shift he would have faced being sacked!

Tow

Must be close to 20 years at this stage.

Shelflife

loyatemu wrote: »

they haven't taken notes for years (ever?)

from the website:

"Please make sure that you have the correct change to pay for your fare. All our services are exact fare only and the driver cannot accept Euro notes or give change."

Thats fair enough, but I cant understand why they would refuse the correct amount because some of it was made up of a note.

Surely it would make more sense for them to accept notes rather than refuse a fare and leave a customer on the side of the road.

two4two

if they accepted notes then we would be all at home printing fivers. with coins it's very very unlikely its a dud

mrmorgan

they are going to go cashless soon!!

Shelflife

foggy_lad wrote: »

Dublin bus have operated this coin only policy for many many years due to the number of attacks on drivers during thefts from buses. At the moment the cash box is bolted to the floor and would also be very heavy with the weight of coins for some scumbag to run off with it, If they were to switch to taking notes again theft of the cashbox or even the whole bus would become worth the risk for the money to the scumbags.

Also that driver can be reprimanded for accepting notes and if he had taken the note from you to hand in at the end of shift he would have faced being sacked!

I understand the principle behind it, but its the same amount of cash that would be on board the bus, Im sure that they could create a box for notes that would dye the notes if tampered with.

As fares get dearer the need to take notes will increase.

loyatemu

Shelflife wrote: »

I understand the principle behind it, but its the same amount of cash that would be on board the bus, Im sure that they could create a box for notes that would dye the notes if tampered with.

As fares get dearer the need to take notes will increase.

more likely they will go cashless like many other city bus services.

LXFlyer

Shelflife wrote: »

I understand the principle behind it, but its the same amount of cash that would be on board the bus, Im sure that they could create a box for notes that would dye the notes if tampered with.

As fares get dearer the need to take notes will increase.

I think you'll find that won't be happening - the sheer capital cost alone for installing such boxes on nearly 1,000 vehicles would be enormous.


But, let's be honest, the emphasis is on moving away from using cash altogether, and switching to LEAP. So I don't see your suggestion ever happening.

coylemj

Taking notes requires machines that can read notes and reject ones it doesn't like, can you imagine the queue at the driver's machine with people trying to pay with clapped out fivers? Nightmare. Won't happen.

MGWR

The more cashless appears, the more automobile drivers will appear too. Centralisation is a disaster.

Miaireland

In my experience City Buses in many countries do not take notes. As others said that the cost to keep them secure is too high and really not needed. City buses are becoming more and more cashless.

fleet_admiral

loyatemu wrote: »

more likely they will go cashless like many other city bus services.

Hopefully, and it would be great if they went like London ie. you get on at the front and off at the middle. Speeds things up and works so well. I hate sitting on a 16 southbound on D'olier street for 5 minutes while the bus empties and fills again

noelfirl

MGWR wrote: »

The more cashless appears, the more automobile drivers will appear too. Centralisation is a disaster.

That has to be right up near the top in your substantial box of sheer ridiculous statements.

coylemj

MGWR wrote: »

The more cashless appears, the more automobile drivers will appear too. Centralisation is a disaster.

Centralisation

Tow

fleet_admiral wrote: »

Hopefully, and it would be great if they went like London ie. you get on at the front and off at the middle. Speeds things up and works so well. I hate sitting on a 16 southbound on D'olier street for 5 minutes while the bus empties and fills again

If the bus has two doors (they have been reintroduced in the lasted model) the driver is supposed to operate the bus in this manner.

MGWR

noelfirl wrote: »

me wrote: »

The more cashless appears, the more automobile drivers will appear too. Centralisation is a disaster.

That has to be right up near the top in your substantial box of sheer ridiculous statements.

Ah, name-calling. Wins every argument, doesn't it.

Well, ordinary Germans do not think it is ridiculous. And that's in the country where centralisation was honed to a fine art, never mind leading the entire EU politically as well as financially.

Paying for your bus ticket with a contactless card, putting down plastic in a restaurant or shop - these may be everyday aspects of life in the Anglophone world. But not so in Germany, where remembering to go to the cash point is something many expats have to get used to.

And according to a study released by YouGov on Thursday, this is just how Germans like it. Nearly three quarters (74 percent) of respondents said that they would oppose a law allowing shops and businesses to refuse cash payments. ...

The survey shows that three quarters of Germans believe cash is safer than card payments. They also believe that paying in cash helps one keep a better overview over one’s finances. ...

And no, Ireland is not so unique in the world that it cannot learn from other countries.

Not to mention that there have been banknote-accepting exact-change fareboxes on buses and even light railways for more than two decades thus far, in other countries.

MGWR

coylemj wrote: »

Centralisation

Public transport in Ireland is centralised. Therefore the method of payment will be promulgated by the Government and thus itself centralised, if/when cashless payment is forced upon everyone.

coylemj

MGWR wrote: »

Public transport in Ireland is centralised.

Is it now? Is that why today I can buy a single ticket from a machine at a Luas stop which will get me via Luas, Dart and Bus to my destination?

Which by the way is what I was able to do in Munich in 1979 - one ticket for a journey from A to B via multiple operators.

MGWR wrote: »

Therefore the method of payment will be promulgated by the Government and thus itself centralised, if/when cashless payment is forced upon everyone.

So let me get this straight - after cashless payment is forced upon everyone, the Govt. will then 'promulgate' the method of payment.

You really haven't a clue, do you?

monument

mrmorgan wrote: »

they are going to go cashless soon!!

It would be about time.

noelfirl

MGWR wrote: »

Ah, name-calling. Wins every argument, doesn't it.

I don't believe I used a name.

And I'm not getting dragged into your random stream of consciousness again, thank you very much. No matter what tenuous link you come up with about the Germans or anyone else loving their coins and notes.

London has gone cashless, seemingly without substantial issues, revolts against "centralisation" or an explosion in private motorists. Good enough for me.

AlekSmart

MGWR wrote: »

Ah, name-calling. Wins every argument, doesn't it.

Well, ordinary Germans do not think it is ridiculous. And that's in the country where centralisation was honed to a fine art, never mind leading the entire EU politically as well as financially.And no, Ireland is not so unique in the world that it cannot learn from other countries.

Not to mention that there have been banknote-accepting exact-change fareboxes on buses and even light railways for more than two decades thus far, in other countries.

This is a disgraceful post.

Surely Germany is the evil empire...did "The Germans" not preside over the destruction of Ireland recently...or are all the Anti-Austerity activists mistaken...?

How dare anybody come on here and suggest we embrace Teutonic practices..next thing you'll be suggesting we go to bed early,and wait for the green man to come on...g'way outa dah witcha.

The OP,perhaps unwittingly underlines why the Germans ain't broke but we are,as he insists on his right to pay:eek: 20% EXTRA:eek: for his Bus journies,as a consequence of not bothering to do even the most basic research into his public transport options....but at least the matter can be addressed by a good oul whinge instead...:rolleyes:

Sheldons Brain

AlekSmart wrote: »

This is a disgraceful post.

Surely Germany is the evil empire...did "The Germans" not preside over the destruction of Ireland recently...or are all the Anti-Austerity activists mistaken...?

How dare anybody come on here and suggest we embrace Teutonic practices..next thing you'll be suggesting we go to bed early,and wait for the green man to come on...g'way outa dah witcha.

The OP,perhaps unwittingly underlines why the Germans ain't broke but we are,as he insists on his right to pay:eek: 20% EXTRA:eek: for his Bus journies,as a consequence of not bothering to do even the most basic research into his public transport options....but at least the matter can be addressed by a good oul whinge instead...:rolleyes:

Public transport should be accessible by the public, they should not have to conduct enormous research just to use it. German bus stops have machines which take notes, there is no reason Dublin Bus couldn't do this on the city centre where there are large bus stops with a lot of visitors.

AlekSmart

Sheldons Brain wrote: »

Public transport should be accessible by the public, they should not have to conduct enormous research just to use it. German bus stops have machines which take notes, there is no reason Dublin Bus couldn't do this on the city centre where there are large bus stops with a lot of visitors.

A bit of minimal research is all that's required....nothing of major significance,I can testify that most Germans I encounter will VERY rapidly accquire a Leapcard upon learning of that 20% discount....:eek:

I'm all in favour of convienently placing boxes of banknotes on Dublin's streets,and I can imagine a referendum would endorse the move.

Dublin Bus did indeed install on-street ticket vending machines many years ago,however they proved somewhat prone to vandalism and the remnants of the last fire-damaged one had to be removed from College Green before it injured somebody....:mad:


In short,the on-street ticket machines went the way of the Public Convienences,Phone Boxes and Generally open Churches....now all a mere memory of bygone times....:(

LXFlyer

Sheldons Brain wrote: »

Public transport should be accessible by the public, they should not have to conduct enormous research just to use it. German bus stops have machines which take notes, there is no reason Dublin Bus couldn't do this on the city centre where there are large bus stops with a lot of visitors.

It's not that hard to either get a LEAP card or coinage surely?

Shelflife

AlekSmart wrote: »

The OP,perhaps unwittingly underlines why the Germans ain't broke but we are,as he insists on his right to pay:eek: 20% EXTRA:eek: for his Bus journies,as a consequence of not bothering to do even the most basic research into his public transport options....but at least the matter can be addressed by a good oul whinge instead...:rolleyes:

Thats a bit OTT, as an infrequent user of Dublin bus, I cant remember the last time I was on one a leap card really isnt of any use to me, im not really in the habit of reading all the T&Cs of all the public transport options open to me when I happen to visit a town for a day.

I didnt insist on any right to pay cash, I merely expressed suprise that the exact fare was almost refused because it wasnt all in coin thats all, I usually use the luas or dart and I can pay with coin,notes or card for that.

LXFlyer

Shelflife wrote: »

Thats a bit OTT, as an infrequent user of Dublin bus, I cant remember the last time I was on one a leap card really isnt of any use to me, im not really in the habit of reading all the T&Cs of all the public transport options open to me when I happen to visit a town for a day.

I didnt insist on any right to pay cash, I merely expressed suprise that the exact fare was almost refused because it wasnt all in coin thats all, I usually use the luas or dart and I can pay with coin,notes or card for that.

Actually LEAP is designed for people like you, who use bus, DART or LUAS occasionally. It's perfect for such users and avoids the need to have change.

Aard

For all those suggesting we "do a London" on it, it might be of interest to know that TfL have *brought back* the one-day bus/tram ticket. Precisely for people like the OP.

I don't think Leap is particularly useful for the OP's experience. For people visiting Dublin only very occasionally (sounds like he hasn't been in the city for many years, though I could be wrong) Leap represents an initial outlay of €5 and a steep learning curve. Then you gotta remember to bring your Leap card when you visit Dublin again in a few years' time....stored in that "safe place" that you've forgotten by now, or taking up valuable real estate in your wallet. Much less hassle to just pay the extra euro in cash fares.

schemingbohemia

Aard wrote: »

For all those suggesting we "do a London" on it, it might be of interest to know that TfL have *brought back* the one-day bus/tram ticket. Precisely for people like the OP.

I don't think Leap is particularly useful for the OP's experience. For people visiting Dublin only very occasionally (sounds like he hasn't been in the city for many years, though I could be wrong) Leap represents an initial outlay of €5 and a steep learning curve. Then you gotta remember to bring your Leap card when you visit Dublin again in a few years' time....stored in that "safe place" that you've forgotten by now, or taking up valuable real estate in your wallet. Much less hassle to just pay the extra euro in cash fares.

Yes but you still can't buy them on the bus like the OP tried here. S/He would still have had to find out in advance by doing a little bit of research.

_Kaiser_

Do the regional services/local city services in say Cork take notes, or is it coin/exact fare only as well?

If the former it's understandable how a non-frequent visit like the OP might be caught out.

cdebru

Shelflife wrote: »

Thats fair enough, but I cant understand why they would refuse the correct amount because some of it was made up of a note.

Surely it would make more sense for them to accept notes rather than refuse a fare and leave a customer on the side of the road.

There are a couple of reasons one is forgery you get on with a dodgy 50 get a 1.95 and a change ticket for 48.05 so you just converted a fake note for €48. Drivers dont handle cash so no way to determine fake or real.

Second the safes are emptied into a coin counting machine, when someone throws in a note it goes into the machine and get ripped up and clogs the machine, so one the machine needs to be fixed and they didn't get the money as it was shredded.

So actually they are better not taking the note, as they don't get it anyway and it costs them to fix the machine, the next best option is to just let you travel for free as it costs less than taking the money, but if they did that everyone would turn up with a fiver ;-)

frankyboy1986

cdebru wrote: »

There are a couple of reasons one is forgery you get on with a dodgy 50 get a 1.95 and a change ticket for 48.05 so you just converted a fake note for €48. Drivers dont handle cash so no way to determine fake or real.

Second the safes are emptied into a coin counting machine, when someone throws in a note it goes into the machine and get ripped up and clogs the machine, so one the machine needs to be fixed and they didn't get the money as it was shredded.

So actually they are better not taking the note, as they don't get it anyway and it costs them to fix the machine, the next best option is to just let you travel for free as it costs less than taking the money, but if they did that everyone would turn up with a fiver ;-)

just for your information the largest change ticket a wayfarer machine can generate is 2 euro and if a driver issued 24x2 euro change tickets in return for taking a fake 50 euro note he-d have some explaining to do,what may happen on rare occasion say if a large group of tourists are getting on in the middle of nowhere on a less regular route and present a 50 or 20 note the driver could contact control and they may allow him to handle the note and hand it into the depot when he/she gets back,but thats a rare exception (I work in CIE)

cdebru

frankyboy1986 wrote: »

just for your information the largest change ticket a wayfarer machine can generate is 2 euro and if a driver issued 24x2 euro change tickets in return for taking a fake 50 euro note he-d have some explaining to do,what may happen on rare occasion say if a large group of tourists are getting on in the middle of nowhere on a less regular route and present a 50 or 20 note the driver could contact control and they may allow him to handle the note and hand it into the depot when he/she gets back,but thats a rare exception (I work in CIE)

I don't get your point the reason the change is restricted to €2 is because drivers don't take notes so would have no reason to issue a €48 change ticket, IF they did accept notes then the settings on a wayfarer would have to be changed to reflect that, but they won't be because of the obvious risk of fraud.
Drivers are not permitted to handle cash, irrespective of who they contact and what they say.

joegriffinjnr

Does the Airlink take notes?

cdebru

joegriffinjnr wrote: »

Does the Airlink take notes?

Yes so does the bus to the Ferry port

rx8

On numerous occasions in the past, I have refused to take notes, as it's company policy. Sometimes, the passenger has been left behind, other times they have almost enough change to hardly matter, and I would let them travel, or sometimes another passenger would come forward with change for the note, and the problem is resolved.

Recently I had a conversation with one of the people in my depot who counts the cash,I was informed that because of the amount of junk, bits of wrappers, sometimes even cigarette butts,that ends up in the boxes,that they have to physically sift through all the coins by hand to remove any debris, and because of this that any notes that are in the boxes, are all found and removed before the coins are counted.

Since this conversation, I have been allowing any passenger who presents a note, to put it into the box if they have no other change. I don't even need to tell the cash office that I've taken a note,as I'm now assured that it will be found before the coins are counted. This, obviously, is not official policy, but it does end any disappointment for that in-frequent traveller, or the tourist.

thomasj

Shelflife wrote: »

So up in the big smoke for the day with the Mrs and decided to nip into the city centre, had the correct money for the fare €5.10 and went to pay the driver.
Sorry says he we don't take notes, I look at him in surprise and he says dud you not know that ? I said sorry no, how would I when I'm only up for the day.
So I stand there looking at him and he says go on sure put the money in there (the coin slot) but it'll be stuck in there all week,
Now the driver himself was a pleasant enough fella , but would another driver have left us on the side of the road?
Found it a strange policy, surely they can operate a system where they can take notes. I know that they don't give change but this was a new one on me !

I'd say there's a risk that if you were to put cash into the contraption used to insert coins, the note would get caught or tear in the process of going down. So makes sense kind of.

As for the driver not being able to give change you can blame it on the thugs that made life difficult for drivers.

If you are only using buses, it would make sense to buy a leap card and top up . you can pay for everyone using the one card and it would be cheaper. It also works on some bus eireann services.

I've seen on buses a couple of times when people get on with only notes, they would ask passengers has anyone got change, although there's no guarantee of success and first preference should always be to have correct change .

LXFlyer

Not too long ago a guy got on a 46a that I was on at Parnell Square heading towards Phoenix Park. He offered a note, the driver explained that he couldn't accept it and that he'd have to get change.

The guy then refused to get off the bus, claiming the driver was exceeding his authority and was insulting him (which the driver wasn't).

The driver called on the radio for assistance, and the guy just dug his heels in, despite an almost full bus of people telling him that the driver was right (and subsequently where he could go).

It was farcical, but to give him his due the driver remained calm throughout, keeping regular contact with control.

The guy just didn't give a damn about delaying everyone else at all.

It was a full 15 minutes before another bus arrived to rescue us (it was a Saturday), but it demonstrated to me the sheer ignorance and nonsense our bus drivers have to put up with from time to time.

MGWR

coylemj wrote: »

Is it now? Is that why today I can buy a single ticket from a machine at a Luas stop which will get me via Luas, Dart and Bus to my destination?

Which by the way is what I was able to do in Munich in 1979 - one ticket for a journey from A to B via multiple operators.

So let me get this straight - after cashless payment is forced upon everyone, the Govt. will then 'promulgate' the method of payment.

You really haven't a clue, do you?

That is an invalid definition of centralisation. I'm referring to how the government retains control and orders everything according to its whim. Has nothing to do with a single medium for payment, which frankly can be put together by the private sector if the government got out of the way of same.

And no, insults do not bolster anyone's argument still, nor do they excuse not knowing what someone is talking about.

MGWR

lxflyer wrote: »

Not too long ago a guy got on a 46a that I was on at Parnell Square heading towards Phoenix Park. He offered a note, the driver explained that he couldn't accept it and that he'd have to get change.

The guy then refused to get off the bus, claiming the driver was exceeding his authority and was insulting him (which the driver wasn't).

The driver called on the radio for assistance, and the guy just dug his heels in, despite an almost full bus of people telling him that the driver was right (and subsequently where he could go).

It was farcical, but to give him his due the driver remained calm throughout, keeping regular contact with control.

The guy just didn't give a damn about delaying everyone else at all.

It was a full 15 minutes before another bus arrived to rescue us (it was a Saturday), but it demonstrated to me the sheer ignorance and nonsense our bus drivers have to put up with from time to time.

And nobody offered to make change for the fellow with the note? Absolutely nobody, on an "almost full bus of people"? I've been on bus routes where people boarded with banknotes and other passengers stepped up to offer those people change for their notes. With all due respect, this anecdote sounds less than credible, unless people on the 46A are that apathetic; and even I doubt this in this day and age.

LXFlyer

MGWR wrote: »

And nobody offered to make change for the fellow with the note? Absolutely nobody, on an "almost full bus of people"? I've been on bus routes where people boarded with banknotes and other passengers stepped up to offer those people change for their notes. With all due respect, this anecdote sounds less than credible, unless people on the 46A are that apathetic; and even I doubt this in this day and age.

Well I'm sorry to disappoint you, but it did happen.

The guy had initially tried to pay with a note, refused to believe that there was a coins only policy, and then started arguing with the driver focussing on his apparent "attidude". That then became the focus of his attention rather than paying his fare.

He basically stood there arguing with the driver, and ignored everyone else. Some people did offer him coins but he wasn't interested, he was just digging his heals in.

IrishWandering

One of the number 14 bus drivers left me on the side of the road because I was 2c short on fare.

ted1

Shelflife wrote: »

I understand the principle behind it, but its the same amount of cash that would be on board the bus, Im sure that they could create a box for notes that would dye the notes if tampered with.

As fares get dearer the need to take notes will increase.

Most people use leap cards these days. We live in a cashless society

cdebru

IrishWandering wrote: »

One of the number 14 bus drivers left me on the side of the road because I was 2c short on fare.

Why did you tell him ?

IrishWandering

cdebru wrote: »

Why did you tell him ?

I didn't, the drivers can see the amount of money that has been entered into the coin box on a small screen, they can on the newest buses anyway.

frankoreagan

Driver on a 69 a while back eventually broke a 10 euro note for a passenger out of his own wallet. The passenger initially claimed he had no money and wanted to travel for free but the driver wasn't having it, so then yer man produced his tenner and the driver said the machine couldn't take it. Passenger then wanted to travel for free again. Driver exasperatedly took out his wallet and broke it for him. Whole saga took about 10 minutes. Some crap drivers put up with.

cdebru

IrishWandering wrote: »

I didn't, the drivers can see the amount of money that has been entered into the coin box on a small screen, they can on the newest buses anyway.

Only if they physically count it themselves, must have been a slow day if he had time to count up all your coins and work out you were 2 cents short.

hmmm

If I'm going anywhere and aim to use public transport, I'll spend 5 minutes researching in advance to find out how the system works. Not hopping on board and waving around notes or tesco vouchers or whatever it is I think they should be accepting from me.

Shelflife

hmmm wrote: »

If I'm going anywhere and aim to use public transport, I'll spend 5 minutes researching in advance to find out how the system works. Not hopping on board and waving around notes or tesco vouchers or whatever it is I think they should be accepting from me.

Good for you, You make it sound like I was some bogger who hadnt a clue what I was doing !

I offered the driver the exact fare part of which was a €5 note, I wasnt looking for change as I knew that they dont give change for security reasons.

As most people who travel regularly are aware of the fact that they dont take notes and lets face it most regular users would have the Leap cards I was just suprised that they dont a have a system where someone offering to pay with a note cant be accommodated.

As it happens the driver get us on the bus and took the note.

WomanSkirtFan8

loyatemu wrote: »

they haven't taken notes for years (ever?)

from the website:

"Please make sure that you have the correct change to pay for your fare. All our services are exact fare only and the driver cannot accept Euro notes or give change."

that's been the case since 1986 when they introduced OPO (One Person Operated) Services in and around Dublin City