Has traffic around Limerick gotten worse recently?

Comhrá

Is it my imagination or has the traffic got a good deal worse around town and especially the suburbs in the past six months or so?

I live in Caherdavin and I seem to notice the local traffic has gone a bit mad recently, especially along the Ennis Rd. from around the Gaelic Grounds to Ivan's Cross.

Also, getting in and out of Caherdavin via Brookville Ave. and the Ennis Rd. has become a lot slower throughout the day.

I feel the traffic lights at the Jetland/LIDL junction are more of a hindrance than a help, causing long tail-backs to the Gaelic Grounds and general congestion throughout the afternoons and evenings. Maybe a one-way system for traffic leaving Woodies & Dunnes.... have them go around towards Clondrinagh rather than joining the Ennis Rd directly?

Maybe I'm just getting old and grumpy? :mad:

naughtysmurf

Yeah, old & grumpy I'd say

I've noticed an increase in traffic , Castletroy - Parkway roundabout & Corbally Rd from Grove Island to Mill Rd junction in the evenings, approx 4,30 when in the past I'd sail through

dunworth1

live out that side of town myself and i dont think that traffic has increased that much but rather the traffic lights timings have become poor.

the light at union cross normally only let three or four cars though at a time.
and i agree with regard to the lights coming from woodies/lidl

over all there's just too many lights on that stretch of road

juneg

I've definitely noticed an increase in traffic. It takes longer to get out at junctions and traffic lights I used to be out of quickly

OfTheMarsWongs

naughtysmurf wrote: »

Yeah, old & grumpy I'd say

I've noticed an increase in traffic , Castletroy - Parkway roundabout & Corbally Rd from Grove Island to Mill Rd junction in the evenings, approx 4,30 when in the past I'd sail through

Re: Traffic in Corbally, love the new Hook & Ladder, not a big fan of the people parking on the footpath down the road from it. Means cars have to drive slower from O'Driscolls to the lights, also means people turning right at the junction have to wait in traffic rather than going straight to the junction (when lights red).

mitresize5

its the economy innit

More people in work, more people on the road at rush hour

Work in Castletroy myself and the difference from now and 12/18 months ago is huge

Tefral

mitresize5 wrote: »

its the economy innit

More people in work, more people on the road at rush hour

Defintely part of it anyway. Also a certain cynical part of me thinks they fecked in so many lights to get people coming in the ennis road from shannon etc to use the tunnel.

thesimpsons

the lights at Ivans coming from Greenhills side and turning right towards Clonmacken road were at the best of times, terrible. now with increased traffic and idiots all trying their best to get into Ivan's small carpark, its horrendous. Why the green filter light turns to pure red on that junction annoys me. There might often be nothing coming out of town but yet the filter light goes red. written to council - no joy.

steveon

Not extra traffic just endless days due traffic lights that are red for no reason, roads been reduced to slow speeds condell road for example, punches cross reduced to one lane, squashing in of UN-neccessary bus lanes all having the effect of delays delays delays in the hope we will use the tunnel which cannot get most people from a-b...

naughtysmurf

OfTheMarsWongs wrote: »

Re: Traffic in Corbally, love the new Hook & Ladder, not a big fan of the people parking on the footpath down the road from it. Means cars have to drive slower from O'Driscolls to the lights, also means people turning right at the junction have to wait in traffic rather than going straight to the junction (when lights red).

O'Driscolls have given Hook&Ladder a few parking spaces, not sure if the customers use them though but some kind of an accident will happen sooner or later with the cars parked either side of the road

stefanovich

thesimpsons wrote: »

the lights at Ivans coming from Greenhills side and turning right towards Clonmacken road were at the best of times, terrible. now with increased traffic and idiots all trying their best to get into Ivan's small carpark, its horrendous. Why the green filter light turns to pure red on that junction annoys me. There might often be nothing coming out of town but yet the filter light goes red. written to council - no joy.

The timing on those lights is mad too in the evenings. Even if just trying to go towards town. It stays green for a few seconds at best. If the driver in front is not paying attention he may not get through.

Also union cross. I actually would take longer detours through mayorstone / clareview to avoid it.

I've found town manageable if you are a little assertive. There are so many slow and dozy drivers out there. I can usually fly up William street or O'Connell street by meandering through the queues of OAPs.

I think Limerick is a nice town to drive in, not a lot of traffic. Go to any big city in England and try driving in rush hour.

1huge1

Agree with the above posters regarding the increase in traffic, (though I'm not in Limerick as much as I used to be).

Perhaps poor traffic management but I would like to assume its due to the improvement in the economy with more people back at work.

zulutango

Traffic lights, in general, help ease traffic. That might mean slowing it down if you're coming from one particular direction, so it feels like they are actually hindering it. An example is the lights at the junction of Condell Road and Lower Shelbourne Road. People who were only ever driving in to the city via the Condell Road saw them as a huge hindrance, but they were a godsend to those who had to come down Lower Shelbourne Road. They helped free up traffic at Union Cross and the Ennis Road and in general improve traffic in the city, but try telling that to somebody who was used to having a free run in along Condell Road.

who_ru

The speed limits on Condell road are ridiculously slow and only serve to enforce the popular theory that road safety is more about extracting more money from drivers than anything else.

Why don't people contact their local representatives and get them to demand action from the council about poor traffic light management?

dunworth1

who_ru wrote: »

The speed limits on Condell road are ridiculously slow and only serve to enforce the popular theory that road safety is more about extracting more money from drivers than anything else.

the speed limit on the condell road is due to the amount of deaths that have happened on that stretch of road as far as i know

gotasmoke

dunworth1 wrote: »

the speed limit on the condell road is due to the amount of deaths that have happened on that stretch of road as far as i know

I can think of 2 separate deaths on that road. Combine that with the fact that there are pedestrian crossing along the way, I think the speed limit is needed.

dunworth1

gotasmoke wrote: »

I can think of 2 separate deaths on that road. Combine that with the fact that there are pedestrian crossing along the way, I think the speed limit is needed.

i totally agree

Jjiipp79

For the size of the city traffic in limerick is a dream!

I lived in Galway for 8 years and traffic is a nightmare!

juneg

gotasmoke wrote: »

I can think of 2 separate deaths on that road. Combine that with the fact that there are pedestrian crossing along the way, I think the speed limit is needed.

Also if you are speeding, in an accident and career off the road there's the danger of going into the river.

Insect Overlord

juneg wrote: »

Also if you are speeding, in an accident and career off the road there's the danger of going into the river.

Maybe so, if you drive a monster truck...

juneg

An File wrote: »

Maybe so, if you drive a monster truck...

Maybe I do

phog

who_ru wrote: »

The speed limits on Condell road are ridiculously slow and only serve to enforce the popular theory that road safety is more about extracting more money from drivers than anything else.

Why don't people contact their local representatives and get them to demand action from the council about poor traffic light management?

I've never seen a speed check on the 50 zone on Condell Rd.

Insect Overlord

phog wrote: »

I've never seen a speed check on the 50 zone on Condell Rd.

The Garda motorbike stops there sometimes, but not often. The bus and cycle lanes aren't for parking in, so the speed van has to stop in a spot that once had a 50 miles per hour limit. 60 km/h still feels slow on that wide stretch.

Poxyshamrock

phog wrote: »

I've never seen a speed check on the 50 zone on Condell Rd.

That's because there's no where for the van to pull in!

zulutango

The 50 kph zone is right, in my opinion. Plenty of cyclists use it.

stefanovich

They should put the cycle lane up by the path near the river and get rid of the practically unused bus lane.

phog

An File wrote: »

The Garda motorbike stops there sometimes, but not often. The bus and cycle lanes aren't for parking in, so the speed van has to stop in a spot that once had a 50 miles per hour limit. 60 km/h still feels slow on that wide stretch.

Poxyshamrock wrote: »

That's because there's no where for the van to pull in!

I'm aware of that but if the speed limit was there only as a means of extracting money from the motorist then one would imagine that a speed check would be far more frequently carried out on that stretch of road.

Aside, from it seeming too slow to drive, what time delay is there in driving that stretch of road within the limit and driving it at say 60kph or 70? Does it add two minutes to the journey?

stefanovich

phog wrote: »

Aside, from it seeming too slow to drive, what time delay is there in driving that stretch of road within the limit and driving it at say 60kph or 70? Does it add two minutes to the journey?

Some are not as patient as yourself. Don't assume people are going to behave logically when driving. A long straight road like that with such a limit will encourage people to overtake or undertake on the bus lane.

Irish_rat

Traffic looks the same to me, although I've better things to be thinking about. The economy in the city looks to be on a serious upturn judging by the sharp increase in the rental/property market in the past 2 months.

thesimpsons

stefanovich wrote: »

They should put the cycle lane up by the path near the river and get rid of the practically unused bus lane.

That onlys work for family and kid cycles. Anyone commuting or even cycling training need to be in the traffic and not sharing pathways with walkers. It's virtually the only decent cycle way in the city area - leave it alone.

peckerhead

stefanovich wrote: »

I think Limerick is a nice town to drive in, not a lot of traffic. Go to any big city in England and try driving in rush hour.

+1.

I moved here from Dublin 20 years ago; if I hadn't, about 4 of those years would probably have been spent sitting in traffic.

dr.fuzzenstein

mitresize5 wrote: »

its the economy innit

More people in work, more people on the road at rush hour

Work in Castletroy myself and the difference from now and 12/18 months ago is huge

I come in from Ennis direction to go to Plassey for 8am.
In the mornings the tunnel actually works out about the same, because once you go off the M7 for the Newport Roundabout, you will sit in traffic for quite some time. So I mostly go via King John's Castle, Clare Street/Dublin Road and past UL. Timewise very little difference and I will not throw nearly €4 per day down the gullet of the operators of that very excellent facility. If you got to make time in the evenings, it is great to have it. I think it's one of the best things for Limerick traffic ever.
I head out in the evening, sometimes via the tunnel, but most times via town or going off the M7 for the Dock Road. Been doing this since 2010, first I worked in Annacotty and since 2012 in Plassey.
I think traffic has increased a little bit, but not massively so. I do notice it in the evenings, before I used to cut through town, but now I would largely avoid it, because the city center is definitely getting busier.
I remember the bad old days in the early 2000's, before the tunnel and before the motorway all the way. I think my record for Caherdavin to UL, to be in for 9 AM was over one hour.
Anyone remember the traffic from the Ennis road to cross the river to go to town? It was eat your sh*t mental. The queue would start way before the Coonagh Roundabout and would go all the way across the river, up William Street, via the Castle was not much better and even Condell Road was a fool's errand.
Those were the days when you could plan nearly 1. 1/2 hours to reach the other side of the city from the Coonagh roundabout if you hit rush hour.
Limerick has improved beyond all recognition traffic wise from what it was in the 90's/early 2000's.

+1 on the Galway traffic. Who designs the road system there? A senile baboon? I would only work there if I earned enough money to commute via helicopter. Dublin I gave up on in 1996. I fear it has not improved with age.

dave 27

I actually think Limerick is blessed with its layout, gridded centre with relatively wide streets, completely bypassed with motorway and tunnel and good roads layout, comparing to the other cities around the country I think Limericks infrastructure means traffic is reduced

I would say tho that ever since the tunnel was built I always felt they put more traffic lights in and around the city to make it more of a hinderance so you use the tunnel instead but i may be wrong!

marno21

dave 27 wrote: »

I actually think Limerick is blessed with its layout, gridded centre with relatively wide streets, completely bypassed with motorway and tunnel and good roads layout, comparing to the other cities around the country I think Limericks infrastructure means traffic is reduced

I would say tho that ever since the tunnel was built I always felt they put more traffic lights in and around the city to make it more of a hinderance so you use the tunnel instead but i may be wrong!

They're right too. While I don't agree with the policy of tolling ringroads and bypasses with the tunnel built the city council should be doing everything possible to remove all non essential traffic from the city centre. Having an empty tunnel and a gridlocked city is foolish, although the tunnel (and indeed ringroad) would be ideal if it had proper interchanges rather than the mess that is the Dock Road interchange, the Ballysimon interchange, Finnegan's roundabout and lack of M20/M7 -> city centre at Rossbrien.

Dublin Road is surely quieter these days with UL being on holidays?

Cookiemunster

marno21 wrote: »

They're right too. While I don't agree with the policy of tolling ringroads and bypasses with the tunnel built the city council should be doing everything possible to remove all non essential traffic from the city centre. Having an empty tunnel and a gridlocked city is foolish, although the tunnel (and indeed ringroad) would be ideal if it had proper interchanges rather than the mess that is the Dock Road interchange, the Ballysimon interchange, Finnegan's roundabout and lack of M20/M7 -> city centre at Rossbrien.

Dublin Road is surely quieter these days with UL being on holidays?

I'm curious to know what you think is wrong with the Dock Rd and Finnegans junctions. They're perfectly adequete for the amount of traffic they handle. Personally I'm happy that the M20/M7 traffic can't get off at Rosbrien as the traffic would be entering a residential area near two primary schools. The traffic in the area is heavy enough already.

dr.fuzzenstein

Cookiemunster wrote: »

I'm curious to know what you think is wrong with the Dock Rd and Finnegans junctions. They're perfectly adequete for the amount of traffic they handle. Personally I'm happy that the M20/M7 traffic can't get off at Rosbrien as the traffic would be entering a residential area near two primary schools. The traffic in the area is heavy enough already.

Personally I think the Dock Road could definitely be improved. Far too many lights and junctions (probably not much can be done about that) and the two lane layout that goes back to one lane at the big Topaz station is causing more delays and chaos than it's worth. Everyone knows The Irish Cannot Merge, sorry, but statement and capitalisation fully justified.
If two lanes merge in Germany, both lanes will approach the point of merge and then merge in a one-two zipper fashion.
In Ireland, both lanes will merge 800 meters before the merge point, creating a massive tailback. Some people will drive past, while others try to block them. There will always be some people who drive even past the point of merging and then try to bully their way in. This will lead to arguments, beeping, flashing and the odd crash.
So any situation were 2 lanes merge should be avoided at all costs in Ireland, since it cannot work and will never work in this country.
Anyone disagreeing, go down the Dock Road and see it in action.

dunworth1

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Personally I think the Dock Road could definitely be improved. Far too many lights and junctions (probably not much can be done about that) and the two lane layout that goes back to one lane at the big Topaz station is causing more delays and chaos than it's worth. Everyone knows The Irish Cannot Merge, sorry, but statement and capitalisation fully justified.
If two lanes merge in Germany, both lanes will approach the point of merge and then merge in a one-two zipper fashion.
In Ireland, both lanes will merge 800 meters before the merge point, creating a massive tailback. Some people will drive past, while others try to block them. There will always be some people who drive even past the point of merging and then try to bully their way in. This will lead to arguments, beeping, flashing and the odd crash.
So any situation were 2 lanes merge should be avoided at all costs in Ireland, since it cannot work and will never work in this country.
Anyone disagreeing, go down the Dock Road and see it in action.

couldn't agree more that lane needs to be removed
i don't see the point of it there anyway.

i also think the toll for the tunnel should be reduced specifically for trucks
remober how quiet it got when they did the free week

Cookiemunster

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Personally I think the Dock Road could definitely be improved. Far too many lights and junctions (probably not much can be done about that) and the two lane layout that goes back to one lane at the big Topaz station is causing more delays and chaos than it's worth. Everyone knows The Irish Cannot Merge, sorry, but statement and capitalisation fully justified.
If two lanes merge in Germany, both lanes will approach the point of merge and then merge in a one-two zipper fashion.
In Ireland, both lanes will merge 800 meters before the merge point, creating a massive tailback. Some people will drive past, while others try to block them. There will always be some people who drive even past the point of merging and then try to bully their way in. This will lead to arguments, beeping, flashing and the odd crash.
So any situation were 2 lanes merge should be avoided at all costs in Ireland, since it cannot work and will never work in this country.
Anyone disagreeing, go down the Dock Road and see it in action.

All that may be true, but it has little to do with junction 2 on the N18 which I was talking about.

dr.fuzzenstein

dunworth1 wrote: »

couldn't agree more that lane needs to be removed
i don't see the point of it there anyway.

i also think the toll for the tunnel should be reduced specifically for trucks
remober how quiet it got when they did the free week

Would be nice, the problem is the idiotic deal done for the tunnel operator.
They were guaranteed x amount of traffic to pass through and if it was less, the government would pay the difference.
So they can charge what they want and if nobody uses their tunnel just kick back, relax and watch the money roll in.
Imagine if you bought a pub and the previous owner says "I GUARANTEE 2000 pints will be sold here every night and if it's less, I pay for the difference!"
Wouldn't you charge €10 per pint and just take it easy from here on in? You have guaranteed income.
Whoever did that deal should be shot. Who the FCUK does such a deal?
Anyone who buys a business is told "Well, good luck, if you fcuk it up, it's not my problem".

FYP:
http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/business/business-news/astounding-costs-of-limerick-tunnel-guarantee-1-5361997
http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/business/business-news/limerick-tunnel-boss-rules-out-toll-reduction-1-5966884

You can be absolutely sure the tunnel operators have hired some very clever accountants to show year after year "Oh yeah, sorry there bud, yeah, massive loss again, would you believe it, we just can't seem to get a break at all, anyway, hand over more money".

dr.fuzzenstein

Cookiemunster wrote: »

All that may be true, but it has little to do with junction 2 on the N18 which I was talking about.

Nothing wrong with that.

mitresize5

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Would be nice, the problem is the idiotic deal done for the tunnel operator.

.

that there is the problem with your post.

The tunnel operator is actually the partial tunnel owner i.e. the business that borrowed half a billion euro to build a critical piece of public infrastructure that should have been financed from central funds when the country was awash with money.

Why would you expect any private operator to build and finance any piece of public infrastructure if they weren't going to get a return. The fee they get every year in the form of tolls and anything supplementary from the government is a Minimum Annual Guarantee which is the bed rock of all projects (not just civil infrastructure) financed this way

http://www.allbusiness.com/the-minimum-guarantee-a-fundemental-feature-of-product-licensing-2-8518280-1.html

This has not surprisingly been spun by politicians to paint the company that designed built and financed the tunnel into the bad guy here when in fact the tunnel should never have been built if the traffic volumes weren't going to be there, or, financed by the government like the Jack Lynch tunnel.

Mc Love

Cookiemunster wrote: »

I'm curious to know what you think is wrong with the Dock Rd and Finnegans junctions. They're perfectly adequete for the amount of traffic they handle. Personally I'm happy that the M20/M7 traffic can't get off at Rosbrien as the traffic would be entering a residential area near two primary schools. The traffic in the area is heavy enough already.

They really messed up that junction and could have possibly done something like they have with the M50 in Dublin with a roundabout loop over the M7/N18 so that motorists coming from M20 could go to the city or the M7 or on the N18.

It's such a pain now having to exit the M20 at Dooradoyle to go by Rosbrien to get into town.

dunworth1

mitresize5 wrote: »

This has not surprisingly been spun by politicians to paint the company that designed built and financed the tunnel into the bad guy here when in fact the tunnel should never have been built if the traffic volumes weren't going to be there, or, financed by the government like the Jack Lynch tunnel.

traffic volumes would be there if the price was right.

when they trialed the free week for trucks the increase was 70%
so if they were to reduce the price to a more reasonable figure a lot more would use it.

i'm not going to pay 1.90 x2 a day just to save a few minutes of travel time
that's almost 20 euro a week. if it was 1 euro i'd be more inclined to use the tunnel

Cookiemunster

Mc Love wrote: »

They really messed up that junction and could have possibly done something like they have with the M50 in Dublin with a roundabout loop over the M7/N18 so that motorists coming from M20 could go to the city or the M7 or on the N18.

It's such a pain now having to exit the M20 at Dooradoyle to go by Rosbrien to get into town.

The M7/N18/M20 junction wasn't messed up. It was purposely designed not to have those movements. As I said above, I agree with the decision as there would be too much traffic entering a residential area.

mitresize5

dunworth1 wrote: »

traffic volumes would be there if the price was right.

when they trialed the free week for trucks the increase was 70%
so if they were to reduce the price to a more reasonable figure a lot more would use it.

i'm not going to pay 1.90 x2 a day just to save a few minutes of travel time
that's almost 20 euro a week. if it was 1 euro i'd be more inclined to use the tunnel

All that is perfectly reasonable on your behalf as it is your money to spend as you like.

My issue is with the politicians making a decision, stupid or not depending on your point of view, to finance this with private money and then complaining when the supplier wants a ROI

dr.fuzzenstein

mitresize5 wrote: »

that there is the problem with your post.

The tunnel operator is actually the partial tunnel owner i.e. the business that borrowed half a billion euro to build a critical piece of public infrastructure that should have been financed from central funds when the country was awash with money.

Why would you expect any private operator to build and finance any piece of public infrastructure if they weren't going to get a return. The fee they get every year in the form of tolls and anything supplementary from the government is a Minimum Annual Guarantee which is the bed rock of all projects (not just civil infrastructure) financed this way

http://www.allbusiness.com/the-minimum-guarantee-a-fundemental-feature-of-product-licensing-2-8518280-1.html

This has not surprisingly been spun by politicians to paint the company that designed built and financed the tunnel into the bad guy here when in fact the tunnel should never have been built if the traffic volumes weren't going to be there, or, financed by the government like the Jack Lynch tunnel.

Product licensing? The motorway is not Windows Server.

Clareman

I have to say I think the the tunnel is brilliant, it's very easy to forget not too long ago that if you wanted to get from Caherdavin to UL you'd be looking at almost an hour in peak traffic, now you can jump on the ring road and get there in ~15 minutes, the biggest problems with the ring road around Limerick now is getting off it, there seems to be a backlog on every exit now. Projects like the tunnel and other by-passes wouldn't be possible without part funding from private investors, to get these people you have to give incentives, I don't think anyone would pump half a billion into a project without some guarantees.

In regards to pricing, I agree it's too expensive, especially for the frequent users, in my opinion something like the discounts on the m50 for regular or registered users should be used to encourage people to use it, I think if you're an infrequent toll user €3 should be an acceptable amount for a once in a while journey, if you are a frequent user then something like a €1 would be more in line with what would be expected, maybe have a minimum spent of €10 for 10 journeys could encourage more and more people to use it.

As for lorries, I think lorries will always need to use to the dock road and make deliveries into the city so I can't see an easy solution there, I would have thought that it would be far more expensive to run a lorry through a city (with brake/diesel use or driver time) than it would be to take the toll, I would assume that most companies would be able to claim the expense through their tax returns.

mitresize5

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Product licensing? The motorway is not Windows Server.

Used to illustrate the concept of MAG's and it's use across all industry sectors but I'm pretty sure you knew that ...... if you didn't you do now

dr.fuzzenstein

mitresize5 wrote: »

Used to illustrate the concept of MAG's and it's use across all industry sectors but I'm pretty sure you knew that ...... if you didn't you do now

Well, yes I do now.
I had a look, this seems to deal more with a guaranteed return to the product owner, one example there being Disney getting a 20% licensing fee, but always getting a guaranteed minimum amount, regardless of income.
This seems to translate more into the motorway being licensed out to an operator who would pay a certain % of their income to the owner of the asset being licensed.
A bit like a franchise, i.e. McDonalds, where you set up the shop, kit it out and then pay a % of your income to the mothership. If no one buys your burgers, tough sh*t.
The Limerick tunnel works more like a franchisee sets up a Mickey D's and gets guaranteed a minimum turnover from the parent company and if they don't sell enough burgers, McDonalds will pay the difference.
Other minimum guarantees:
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/definition/minimum-guarantee

A minimum guarantee is an initial sum that is paid to the producer by the distributor irrespective of how the film performs. Typically, large producers command a high sum due to their brand that pulls in crowds into theatres.

A business where the party that runs the business is guaranteed a minimum income by the business owner is unheard of, at least to me. If it does exist, I want in.

mitresize5

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Well, yes I do now.
I had a look, this seems to deal more with a guaranteed return to the product owner, one example there being Disney getting a 20% licensing fee, but always getting a guaranteed minimum amount, regardless of income.
This seems to translate more into the motorway being licensed out to an operator who would pay a certain % of their income to the owner of the asset being licensed.
A bit like a franchise, i.e. McDonalds, where you set up the shop, kit it out and then pay a % of your income to the mothership. If no one buys your burgers, tough sh*t.
The Limerick tunnel works more like a franchisee sets up a Mickey D's and gets guaranteed a minimum turnover from the parent company and if they don't sell enough burgers, McDonalds will pay the difference.
Other minimum guarantees:
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/definition/minimum-guarantee



A business where the party that runs the business is guaranteed a minimum income by the business owner is unheard of, at least to me. If it does exist, I want in.

Look I don't want to sound patronising here and they do say if your explaining your losing but you seem to have gotten the whole thing backwards.

The (part) owner is Direct Route, the consortium that built and financed the tunnel. Not the government. I would think Ownership will pass to the government at the conclusion of the deal, although I couldn't be sure.

As the owners they are getting the toll income. If this doesn't reach the MAG they are subsidised to the point where they do.

In your example above Disney are the equivalent of Direct Route. direct Route are the product owner.

Anyway that's the long and the short of it. I haven't anything else to offer this conversation. I hope that clears it up

dr.fuzzenstein

mitresize5 wrote: »

Look I don't want to sound patronising here and they do say if your explaining your losing but you seem to have gotten the whole thing backwards.

The (part) owner is Direct Route, the consortium that built and financed the tunnel. Not the government. I would think Ownership will pass to the government at the conclusion of the deal, although I couldn't be sure.

As the owners they are getting the toll income. If this doesn't reach the MAG they are subsidised to the point where they do.

In your example above Disney are the equivalent of Direct Route. direct Route are the product owner.

Anyway that's the long and the short of it. I haven't anything else to offer this conversation. I hope that clears it up

I do very well understand the deal that the "proud" owners of the tunnel have gotten. The Gov said "you build it, and we guarantee the income"
That is akin to saying "You open a business and we guarantee the income". because that's what happened here. The Limerick tunnel is a business that a private operator was allowed to set up and open.
I am genuinely struggling to find another example where a private enterprise opened a business and the government said "If you don't at leats earn X, we will pay the difference".
Do you think the Irish government will subsidize Tesco if they don't hit their sales targets?
Show me ANY private business that has it's income GUARANTEED by the state.

Edit
Sorry that got out hand