Car tax for driving in Europe

BillJ

Here's my situation:

Doing a banger rally in Europe in July, bought a car with NCT and insurance will be sorted also, car tax is out.

Im wondering if I need to tax the car or if I will get away with it?

Will be driving from Cork to Rosslare, ferry to Fishguard, Fishguard to Dover, Dover to Calais and then onto Barcelona. The car will be scrapped in Barcelona and will be flying home. I really don't want to have to tax the car for the sake of 7 days driving.

I know i may get stopped in Ireland, will they care in UK or rest of Europe? Opinions?

listermint

BillJ wrote: »

Here's my situation:

Doing a banger rally in Europe in July, bought a car with NCT and insurance will be sorted also, car tax is out.

Im wondering if I need to tax the car or if I will get away with it?

Will be driving from Cork to Rosslare, ferry to Fishguard, Fishguard to Dover, Dover to Calais and then onto Barcelona. The car will be scrapped in Barcelona and will be flying home. I really don't want to have to tax the car for the sake of 7 days driving.

I know i may get stopped in Ireland, will they care in UK or rest of Europe? Opinions?

Unsure, but in the UK they have done away with Disks. So as long as you just display the NCT and Insurance in a 2 Holder in the window and not a 3 holder and blank. you should technically get away with it.

pa990

After roslare,. don't worry, they won't know what you have or haven't to display on your windscreen.

Enjoy, and post some pics here when you return.

Falcon L

Technically, the car must comply with the legal requirements in it's home country. You run the risk of getting done, if you meet the wrong cop.

BillJ

Thanks for the replies

Falcon L wrote: »

Technically, the car must comply with the legal requirements in it's home country. You run the risk of getting done, if you meet the wrong cop.

Thats what I was thinking, but what would the penalty be and how would they know?

punisher5112

You need to tax the car.

No other way about it.

You have an Irish car it has to be road worthy and taxed in state/country it is from.

The UK has anpr camera systems now so not much need for discs as most cop cars are also fitted with equipment.

If you are stopped they will know its not taxed as you will have no disc or it will be out of date.

BillJ

punisher5112 wrote: »

You need to tax the car.

No other way about it.

You have an Irish car it has to be road worthy and taxed in state/country it is from.

The UK has anpr camera systems now so not much need for discs as most cop cars are also fitted with equipment.

If you are stopped they will know its not taxed as you will have no disc or it will be out of date.

Can anpr pick up an irish reg?

Falcon L

BillJ wrote: »

Thanks for the replies



Thats what I was thinking, but what would the penalty be and how would they know?

Not sure what the penalties would be in France, probably an on-the-spot fine. In Spain you risk the car being impounded and you being left on the side of the road.

They do know what's needed on the cars from Ireland. Especially if they're trafico.

JackHeuston

Falcon L wrote: »

They do know what's needed on the cars from Ireland. Especially if they're trafico.

Really? I thought each EU country don't know about motor tax of another country... And for example, in Italy you don't even need to display the receipt, and Police will never ever ask you to show them that you paid the motor tax. I'm not even sure if they are allowed to ask for it. If you don't pay it, your local municipality knows that already and will simply send a letter to the address in the car registration.

So I'd think if things work this way, no one would wonder if you don't display anything else other than the insurance disc.

I thought having tons of those little receipts to display on the windscreen was only Irish maybe it's like that in Spain too then...

punisher5112

BillJ wrote: »

Can anpr pick up an irish reg?

No but markers can be put on any reg they upload.

I would not risk it been left with no car to be honest.

Falcon L

JackHeuston wrote: »

Really? I thought each EU country don't know about motor tax of another country... And for example, in Italy you don't even need to display the receipt, and Police will never ever ask you to show them that you paid the motor tax. I'm not even sure if they are allowed to ask for it. If you don't pay it, your local municipality knows that already and will simply send a letter to the address in the car registration.

So I'd think if things work this way, no one would wonder if you don't display anything else other than the insurance disc.

I thought having tons of those little receipts to display on the windscreen was only Irish maybe it's like that in Spain too then...

That's the same system in Spain, but they know that the Irish cars need a disc in the screen. Most wouldn't bother you, but you might just get the narky one, or a checkpoint where they're looking for something. They can and will lift the car. In Spain there are loads of 'English bangers' running around. No test, tax or even insurance.

BillJ

Falcon L wrote: »

That's the same system in Spain, but they know that the Irish cars need a disc in the screen. Most wouldn't bother you, but you might just get the narky one, or a checkpoint where they're looking for something. They can and will lift the car. In Spain there are loads of 'English bangers' running around. No test, tax or even insurance.

Most of our driving will be done going through the Alps and through France, is it likely to have checkpoints on mountain passes? And how do the French enforce it?

And if we got to Spain and got the car was taken off us it wouldn't be the end of the world, we'd have made it most of the way by then!

I'm still undecided as to what to do though.

JackHeuston

Falcon L wrote: »

In Spain there are loads of 'English bangers' running around. No test, tax or even insurance.

Ahh ok then, maybe they know more since there are more UK and Irish drivers. Pretty sure not everyone cares if you don't pay your local taxes, but yeah there's always the chance to cross the cop who wants to make your day feel like hell if he/her knows about that stuff.

OP, maybe it's possible to get a refund here if you prove your car is not on the road anymore, after having payed the tax? Don't know, just wondering.

BillJ

JackHeuston wrote: »

Ahh ok then, maybe they know more since there are more UK and Irish drivers. Pretty sure not everyone cares if you don't pay your local taxes, but yeah there's always the chance to cross the cop who wants to make your day feel like hell if he/her knows about that stuff.

OP, maybe it's possible to get a refund here if you prove your car is not on the road anymore, after having payed the tax? Don't know, just wondering.

Never thought of that, is this possible does anyone know?

Falcon L

If it was me... I'd run the gauntlet. Probably less than 5% chance of getting in hot water.

It sounds like a good adventure. Just make sure you're well identified as being an Irish car. They get better treatment in France than the British registered ones.

Good luck with the run.:)

listermint

BillJ wrote: »

Never thought of that, is this possible does anyone know?

No that is not possible.

Clearlier

BillJ wrote: »

Never thought of that, is this possible does anyone know?

http://www.environ.ie/en/LocalGovernment/MotorTax/Refunds/

Don't know if it's possible to get the ELV certificate in Spain or if there are alternative acceptable. (just my curiosity) Is the tax very expensive?

BillJ

Clearlier wrote: »

http://www.environ.ie/en/LocalGovernment/MotorTax/Refunds/

Don't know if it's possible to get the ELV certificate in Spain or if there are alternative acceptable. (just my curiosity) Is the tax very expensive?

190e, for a few days driving.

Clearlier

BillJ wrote: »

190e, for a few days driving.

Pricey but perhaps not a huge % of the overall cost of the trip?

Just noticed that on the link I sent you they require a minimum of 3 whole months left on the tax in order to issue a refund. Might be worth giving them a call to find out if you can get a motor tax refund after scrapping a car in Spain and what proof you'd have to provide. You'd also have to pay for 6 months of tax.

CiniO

Lots of misinformation in this thread.
Irish motortax is required by Irish law - Finance Act, and has nothing to do with any foreign road laws. You don't need Irish motortax when abroad.
You also don't need to display anything on your windscreen - no discs.
What you need though is your registration certificate (to be carried with you at all times) and you need your insurance cert and proof of valid roadworthiness test, which would be NCT cert in case of Irish car. Have all those documents with you, don't display anything on your windscreen and you will be fine.
That's all what's required by Convention on Road Traffic from Vienna from 1968 which regulates requirements for vehicles in international traffic.

PS - to back this up, I confirm I've travelled over 60,000km on the Continent through various countries in Irish registered cars, most of them were untaxed. Encountered several road checks, and was never asked for a tax as obviously as mentioned above, Irish tax is none of their business.

CiniO

Falcon L wrote: »

Technically, the car must comply with the legal requirements in it's home country. You run the risk of getting done, if you meet the wrong cop.

Show me any law from any country which would say that?

BillJ

Thanks for that great info, going by that I should have no problem as I have valid NCT, log book and will have valid insurance and documents to back it all up.

ironclaw

@BillJ, is this the Mongol Rally?

BillJ

ironclaw wrote: »

@BillJ, is this the Mongol Rally?

No its the wacky rally, much less extreme than the Mongol rally. Mongol rally is something I would love to do. Would need a lot of funds and about 18months planning I reckon

_Brian

In France isn't their motor tax collected on te tolls and already added to fuel. So surely there your compliant ?

Mycroft H

don't bother taxing it.

Insurance and NCT and your reg cert. Drive on and enjoy the holiday.

Henry Ford III

CiniO wrote: »

Show me any law from any country which would say that?

Show me any law that says the opposite.

Henry Ford III

https://www.gov.uk/importing-vehicles-into-the-uk/temporary-imports

Interesting reading CiniO.

TrailerBob

BillJ wrote: »

No its the wacky rally, much less extreme than the Mongol rally. Mongol rally is something I would love to do. Would need a lot of funds and about 18months planning I reckon

I assume this is one of those "buy a car for a fiver and get it to Spain" jobbies. What dates are you driving out of interest... I'm doing the same route in early July for camping hols.

ironclaw

BillJ wrote: »

No its the wacky rally, much less extreme than the Mongol rally. Mongol rally is something I would love to do. Would need a lot of funds and about 18months planning I reckon

Great. Enjoy! I'm currently planning the Mongol for a 2016 attempt. It is however looking very expensive by the time you factor in Visas and transport (Ferry etc)

mullingar

As cinio said, motor tax is a financial tax, nothing to do with Road traffic legislation.

Bring your NCT, insurance and VLC certs and you are 100% compliant

Henry Ford III

See the link in post #28 above.

166man

I wouldn't worry about tax at all! NCT and insurance be grand. €190 for 7 days driving is nuts!

I was in Europe in Apil and while the car was fully compliant I neevr once met a checkpoint nor was I aksed for any documentation.

Enjoy the trip, sounds class!

Oh and don't mind any high horses in the thread, drive her on and enjoy, the car will run fine without tax!

BillJ

Cheers lads/ladies. Looks like we'll drive on without it I think. Let's hope we don't get stopped between cork and rosslare!

@ironclaw good luck with the prep for Mongol rally. It's a serious trip! Think there's a bunch of lads from tipp doing it this year or maybe next year too. It's on my bucket list for sure

BillJ

TrailerBob wrote: »

I assume this is one of those "buy a car for a fiver and get it to Spain" jobbies. What dates are you driving out of interest... I'm doing the same route in early July for camping hols.

July 3rd - 7th is lille to barca. Picked up the car for 500, bit over budget!

TrailerBob

Cool.. Hope it will be suitably decorated! Leaving Dover on the 3rd myself..I'll happily offer mechanical assistance in the general Perpignan corner of France should the worst case happen.. Best of luck with it

CiniO

ironclaw wrote: »

Great. Enjoy! I'm currently planning the Mongol for a 2016 attempt. It is however looking very expensive by the time you factor in Visas and transport (Ferry etc)

Friend of mine was planning this for 2013. Unfortunately he failed, as he didn't get Russian visa which he was waiting for a while. Russian embassy was misleading him, and eventually he had to change the plans, so make sure you sort out visas early enough.

CiniO

Henry Ford III wrote: »

https://www.gov.uk/importing-vehicles-into-the-uk/temporary-imports

Interesting reading CiniO.

What you quoted is what everyone quote whenever this subject appears on boards.
It's not the law, it's just information, and it's worded very unprecisely and misleading.

You can usually use a vehicle with non-UK number plates without needing to tax or register it in the UK if all of the following apply:

you’re visiting and don’t plan to live here
you only use the vehicle up to 6 months in a 12-month period (one single visit, or several shorter visits adding up to a 6-month period)
the vehicle is registered and taxed in its home country

By this they mean, that vehicle has it's registration tax (like Irish VRT paid - not refunded) as otherwise vehicle woulnd't be officialy registered in this country.
This is based on EU-wide law in relation to this.
Nothing there about motor tax.

After reading actual legislation, you can find out that's the case.

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Show me any law that says the opposite.

F.e. Polish law:

5. Pojazd zarejestrowany za granicą dopuszcza się do ruchu, jeżeli odpowiada wymaganym warunkom technicznym i jest zaopatrzony w tablice rejestracyjne z numerem rejestracyjnym składającym się z liter alfabetu łacińskiego i cyfr arabskich, z zastrzeżeniem art. 59 ust. 2 i 3, a kierujący pojazdem ma przy sobie dokument stwierdzający dokonanie rejestracji.

http://www.v10.pl/prawo/Kodeks,drogowy,-,Dzial,III,-,Pojazdy,5.html#rozdzial2

In short it says that vehicle registered abroad can be allowed in traffic in Poland if it fulfils technical requirements (set by different act), is equipped with set of number plates and driver carries registration cert with him.
Requirement for insurance and valid roadworthiness test is also included in other spots of this legislation.
Nothing about valid tax.

*Kol*

CiniO wrote: »

Lots of misinformation in this thread.
Irish motortax is required by Irish law - Finance Act, and has nothing to do with any foreign road laws. You don't need Irish motortax when abroad.
You also don't need to display anything on your windscreen - no discs.
What you need though is your registration certificate (to be carried with you at all times) and you need your insurance cert and proof of valid roadworthiness test, which would be NCT cert in case of Irish car. Have all those documents with you, don't display anything on your windscreen and you will be fine.
That's all what's required by Convention on Road Traffic from Vienna from 1968 which regulates requirements for vehicles in international traffic.

PS - to back this up, I confirm I've travelled over 60,000km on the Continent through various countries in Irish registered cars, most of them were untaxed. Encountered several road checks, and was never asked for a tax as obviously as mentioned above, Irish tax is none of their business.

best post in this thread. But probably known anyway that Irish tax is not required in any other country. Given that its the "motor tax" of Ireland or something similar.

sean1141

could you tax the car for six months before leaving and claim back 5 months when you scrap the car?

Henry Ford III

CiniO wrote: »

What you quoted is what everyone quote whenever this subject appears on boards.
It's not the law, it's just information, and it's worded very unprecisely and misleading...

It's clearcut.

More importantly a Traffic Officer in the UK is likely to pull and possibly impound a car on the strength of it if he/she feels so inclined.

www.gov.uk is an official site, and contains simplified interpretations on various bits of legislation.

Your reference to Poland doesn't mention foreign road tax at all. That doesn't mean it's not required however. It's just not mentioned.

It makes sense that any car being driven temporarily abroad should comply fully with any/all legal requirements relating to it's country of origin. That'd include having current road tax.

Henry Ford III

sean1141 wrote: »

could you tax the car for six months before leaving and claim back 5 months when you scrap the car?

You could get 3 months back.

power pants

166man wrote: »

I wouldn't worry about tax at all! NCT and insurance be grand. €190 for 7 days driving is nuts!

I was in Europe in Apil and while the car was fully compliant I neevr once met a checkpoint nor was I aksed for any documentation.

Enjoy the trip, sounds class!

Oh and don't mind any high horses in the thread, drive her on and enjoy, the car will run fine without tax!

Exactly, this guy never encountered a checkpoint in "europe" for the month of April. This has to mean you wont either....:rolleyes:

166man

power pants wrote: »

Exactly, this guy never encountered a checkpoint in "europe" for the month of April. This has to mean you wont either....:rolleyes:

Ah the classic rolleyes is always the sign of a good argument.

In my own personal experience with driving through Italy, France, UK, Switzerland, doing close to 4000km I never encountered a check point, nor any hassle from police at any stage. I saw plenty of them though, and they saw me, but never got hassle over it. Have you ever been on the continent or been stopped?

I think you'd have to be fairly unlucky to get stopped Bill! Enjoy the holiday and make sure you have reg cert, insurance, NCT etc.

power pants

166man wrote: »

Ah the classic rolleyes is always the sign of a good argument.

In my own personal experience with driving through Italy, France, UK, Switzerland, doing close to 4000km I never encountered a check point, nor any hassle from police at any stage. I saw plenty of them though, and they saw me, but never got hassle over it. Have you ever been on the continent or been stopped?

I think you'd have to be fairly unlucky to get stopped Bill! Enjoy the holiday and make sure you have reg cert, insurance, NCT etc.

The classic roll eyes was to emphasize the daftness of your argument

Because this never happened to me, you dont need to that.

Ive never been stopped in Dublin but have seen numerous police cars and police around the town. By your logic, Im wasting my money on tax too?

sean1141

Henry Ford III wrote:

You could get 3 months back.

Oh I thought you would get 5 months back.

166man

power pants wrote: »

The classic roll eyes was to emphasize the daftness of your argument.

Ive never been stopped in Dublin but have seen numerous police cars and police around the town. By your logic, Im wasting my money on tax too?

.....Irony is a wonderful thing....


Your argument is completely daft because it's a legal obligation in Ireland that theoretically is strictly enforced. It's not strictly enforced to have Irish tax on the continent.

I gave my example based on personal experience, obviously it doesn't mean that nobody ever gets caught. To think so would be illogical.

Have you ever been in the continent and been caught? Or been on the continent and not caught? I'd be interested to hear if anyone on this forum has been on the continent and caught and had their car seized, because I reckon itd be a very small number.

power pants

I wouldn't worry about tax at all! NCT and insurance be grand. €190 for 7 days driving is nuts!

I was in Europe in Apil and while the car was fully compliant I neevr once met a checkpoint nor was I aksed for any documentation


You are telling him not to worry about tax because you never got stopped.

That's your personal experience as you have said, so it is logical to make sweeping assumptions on your one experience driving in europe? (in april)

Henry Ford III

I hate this anarchistic attitude to driving rules and regulations. Seems to be an Irish/Polish thing. Why not just comply fully and enjoy the drive safe in the knowledge that even if you get stopped you won't get any hassle?

munchkin_utd

to be honest the checks you will find on a motorway on the continent are normally for catching lads doing drugs runs and the likes.
What you most need is your licence and car ownership papers plus have triangles, warning vests and the likes easily to hand.
If the car looks like a banger then an NCT would be useful, but motor tax is the least of their worries, especially in the likes of Germany where theres not such a focus on Motor tax enforcement seeing as the income is relatively low
(instead, they ride you on income tax / 15% medical insurance Charge / 9% state Pension contribution / church tax / PRSI / Solidarity tax / old age care levy/ council tax )

Mycroft H

Henry Ford III wrote: »

I hate this anarchistic attitude to driving rules and regulations. Seems to be an Irish/Polish thing. Why not just comply fully and enjoy the drive safe in the knowledge that even if you get stopped you won't get any hassle?

As its 190 quid for a few days holidays. We're not all made of money