School going age

Lisa2011

My brother was recently having a conversation with his GF about what is the right age to send their daughter to school.

She is determined to send her to school at 4 in September 2018 only two months after her 4th birthday.

My brother is not keen as he believes 5 is the right age.

I have another brother whose son will start school september 2016 as he will only be a few months from his 5th birthday. I see no problem in sending them at 4 when they are close to being 5 .

What really is the best age to send kids to school?

I started school less than a month after my 5th birthday and it never had any negative affect on me.

monflat

He may change his mind by then. It's another while yet.
It really is child dependant. people say they are more ready when they are 4.5/ 5 yrs.

I won't have the problem of wondering what ageto send my three as they all are summer babies and will turn 5. JJust before September.

My oldest will go to school this sept.
She will be 5 next month.
She is now ready and has really gained confidence in past yr.
However I don't think she would have been ready atext 4 to start school

blackbird 49

As someone else pointed out it really depends on the child, my niece will be 5 at the end of this month, she is starting school in September, while she is a clever little girl, socially she would not have been ready for school last September, the year at play school really helped and she is well ready for school this September,

EoghanIRL

Well I started school a couple of months after my fourth birthday.
It wasn't a problem but the one thing I did notice was the age gap. When I did my leaving cert I had just turned 17 and most people were celebrating their 18th/19th birthday. Subsequently I was 17 for nearly the entire first year of college. Even though this never worked in my disadvantage I definitely noticed the age difference.
Looking back now I definitely feel more mature being one year older. The advantage is that I'm finished college at 22.

I think that as long as the child is capable then there is no problem starting young.

alroley

My sister is a teacher and she says if they're not 5 by December, wait until the next year.

EoghanIRL

alroley wrote: »

My sister is a teacher and she says if they're not 5 by December, wait until the next year.

I can't agree with this.
There are plenty of children in the local primary school starting young. Why would you subject a child to an extra year of pre school if they are ready to move on and are deemed capable?

athtrasna

You need to look beyond the present to the future. If the children go to a secondary school without a transition year they then might be very young going to university. My birthday is January so I was 4 and 3/4, I was one of the youngest in my class and was the youngest by a mile on my university course. 4 might not be too young to go to school but in my opinion 17 is too young to go to university.

my teapot is orange

athtrasna wrote: »

You need to look beyond the present to the future. If the children go to a secondary school without a transition year they then might be very young going to university. My birthday is January so I was 4 and 3/4, I was one of the youngest in my class and was the youngest by a mile on my university course. 4 might not be too young to go to school but in my opinion 17 is too young to go to university.

That's true, but that kind think can go both ways. I know people who started at 5, did TY and needed to repeat the leaving, going to university at 20.

lazygal

Both of mine will start at five. I see no need to start them at four. I'll be sending to.a Montessori for two years before. I don't care how ready they might be at four for primary school, I'm more concerned about being ready socially for secondary school, going out with their peers, doing the leaving cert etc. Preschools that are anyway decent will be well able to have a two year programme.

pooch90

Am I reading the dates right?
Is the child in question not even 1 year old yet and they are debating this??

hallo dare

I was only 4 years and 3 months when I started and I was too young. My Kids didn't go until they were 5 and it just seems to suit better with that extra year standing to them.

hallo dare

pooch90 wrote: »

Am I reading the dates right?
Is the child in question not even 1 year old yet and they are debating this??

Of course they have to debate this. The child has to be registered at school for to get their place at that particular year.

My Cousin had to register his little girl in a school in Lucan only a few months after she was born to be sure of her having a place when the time came.

pooch90

Things a lot different in my neck of the woods, it seems crazy to decide before any development has taken place.
Children down here are enrolled 5-6 months before they start.
4 years and two months is very young for Junior Infants.
I would hold off until the following year.
I know of very few parents who regret sending the child a year later but plenty who regret sending too soon.
As a teacher, a child who is too young is an awful thing to witness.

The J Stands for Jay

athtrasna wrote: »

You need to look beyond the present to the future. If the children go to a secondary school without a transition year they then might be very young going to university. My birthday is January so I was 4 and 3/4, I was one of the youngest in my class and was the youngest by a mile on my university course. 4 might not be too young to go to school but in my opinion 17 is too young to go to university.

I went to university at 17 and never had a problem with it.

lazygal

McGaggs wrote: »

I went to university at 17 and never had a problem with it.

I know people who went at 17 and they said they were too young.

We had to register our children as soon as we had pps numbers for them as the local educate together school is first come, first served. We're still deciding on secondary schools but we'll have missed the boat in some schools at this stage.

The J Stands for Jay

lazygal wrote: »

We had to register our children as soon as we had pps numbers for them as the local educate together school is first come, first served. We're still deciding on secondary schools but we'll have missed the boat in some schools at this stage.

This is madness. We were registering our sob in local schools before his first birthday. We have no idea where we're going to be living by the time he's five (born in September, so now way will he be starting at 4). Should we be registering him in every school on the east coast?

The J Stands for Jay

lazygal wrote: »

I know people who went at 17 and they said they were too young. .

The main problem is choosing leaving cert subjects just before sitting your junior cert. It doesn't matter if you are 15 or 16, it's far too young to be effectively choosing your adult career.

Qualitymark

A year for a four-year-old is a quarter of her whole life on this earth. It's a long, long time of very great change.

In Sweden, children don't go to big school until at least seven, though they go to playschool, with plenty of skills taught, from a year old.

The main problem is choosing leaving cert subjects just before sitting your junior cert. It doesn't matter if you are 15 or 16, it's far too young to be effectively choosing your adult career.

But are you really doing that? Nowadays it's possible to go back and do subjects you've missed, such as languages, when you're working. And science teaching is still, from what I hear, so bad in Ireland that Irish students who wish to study science in university have to be brought up to school-leaving standard in their first year of university, to the bafflement of international students in their lectures.

GottaGetGatt

I have 3 nieces and nephews all born in the same year.they'll all be 5 this year and starting school in September.

monflat

McGaggs wrote: »

This is madness. We were registering our sob in local schools before his first birthday. We have no idea where we're going to be living by the time he's five (born in September, so now way will he be starting at 4). Should we be registering him in every school on the east coast?

What s a sob???

pooch90

Imagine a typo and should be son and not Son of a B!!

lazygal

McGaggs wrote: »

This is madness. We were registering our sob in local schools before his first birthday. We have no idea where we're going to be living by the time he's five (born in September, so now way will he be starting at 4). Should we be registering him in every school on the east coast?

It depends on the schools locally really. There's schools near us I wouldn't ever consider sending ours to and they've loads of places so there's no panic. Other popular schools required very early registration.

Qualitymark

Don't this thread and other similar ones show that our society is in big trouble? Surely it should be normal and easy to be educated in a good school wherever you are, and to enter that school with no hassle.

EoghanIRL

lazygal wrote: »

I know people who went at 17 and they said they were too young.

Only disadvantage is not being allowed entry to clubs etc... This isn't the be all and end all of college (or at least it shouldn't be).

I am speaking from experience. I just finished first year. There were 17 year olds but then on the other hand lots of 19-21 year olds. Surely 20 is just too late to be leaving school at.

Dravokivich

alroley wrote: »

My sister is a teacher and she says if they're not 5 by December, wait until the next year.

What an absurd Idea. My kid will be turning 5 in the january. Theres no point keeping him back the where he is turning six in juniour infants.

byhookorbycrook

Qualitymark wrote: »

Don't this thread and other similar ones show that our society is in big trouble? Surely it should be normal and easy to be educated in a good school wherever you are, and to enter that school with no hassle.

It very much depends on what you consider "a good school." Sometimes people want a particular type of school like a mullti-denom/ Gaelscoil and there may only be one of those in the locality.
Sometimes there are just not enough places for everyone in the area.

lazygal

Qualitymark wrote: »

Don't this thread and other similar ones show that our society is in big trouble? Surely it should be normal and easy to be educated in a good school wherever you are, and to enter that school with no hassle.

Depends on what your definition of a good school is. We don't consider single sex schools good and the local gaelscoil is extremely Catholic and does a lot of indoctrination so they were never going to be good for our children.

byhookorbycrook

Just to point out that many Gaelscoileanna are also multi-denominational.

Qualitymark

Myself, I'm waiting for laïcité to hit Ireland - State-run schools with no crucifixes or religious teaching (which I'd see as a matter for parents to take care of at home), and with a high, regulated standard of teaching and care.

lazygal

Qualitymark wrote: »

Myself, I'm waiting for laïcité to hit Ireland - State-run schools with no crucifixes or religious teaching (which I'd see as a matter for parents to take care of at home), and with a high, regulated standard of teaching and care.

You'll be waiting a while. The dept of education has rule 68 which basically means children coming to know God is the most important thing in schools in Ireland. There's no non denominational schools in Ireland unless you opt for a completely private school. All schools in receipt of public funding must have religious elements to their teaching.

echo beach

lazygal wrote: »

You'll be waiting a while. The dept of education has rule 68 which basically means children coming to know God is the most important thing in schools in Ireland.

The only surprise is that they didn't make it Rule 1.
So much for the right to religious freedom, which it seems gives you the right to pick a religion but not the right to reject all of them.

Qualitymark

lazygal wrote: »

All schools in receipt of public funding must have religious elements to their teaching.

Really? Where are these rules published?

lazygal

Qualitymark wrote: »

Really? Where are these rules published?

https://www.education.ie/en/Schools-Colleges/Information/Rules-and-Programmes-for-Schools/rules_for_national_schools_7_13.pdf

See page 7-religious instruction. It is considered by far the most important subject taught in school. Note, this is religious instruction, not eduction on religion.

Qualitymark

lazygal wrote: »

https://www.education.ie/en/Schools-Colleges/Information/Rules-and-Programmes-for-Schools/rules_for_national_schools_7_13.pdf

See page 7-religious instruction. It is considered by far the most important subject taught in school. Note, this is religious instruction, not eduction on religion.

Unfortunately this PDF has no identifier - no title or other identifying material like a half-title, copyright, etc. Where is the full document, please? I tried searching education.ie for "Rules and Programmes for Schools" without success.

byhookorbycrook

Ok can we take this back on topic or open a new thread please?

Qualitymark

Sorry, of course. Back on topic. New thread opening. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=95644552#post95644552

DGOBS

I had the same dilemma last year, my daughter was 4years and 4months

Had a very informative discussion with the play school she was attending, and they normally have a good handle on where your child is at socially and educationally (certainly my play school had a lot to say) and it helped me make a decision.

One guiding factor they said to also look at, was did the child still need a nap some days in the week after playschool or mid afternoon (mine did) and this was also a good indicator that she may not be ready.

My older daughter was 5 when she started, and there was a number of 'just 4' year olds in that year, and talking to their parents, they felt the kids were struggling with social interaction in the yard, and found it difficult to keep up with class tasks, I also note, that most of those younger kids are in english and maths support now (and they are entering 3 class next year) yet, the older kids (mine included, thank goodness) are flying, given extra readers, early finisher tasks and had to move to a supplementary maths book as they had finished the normal one early in the year.

All said, I left my daughter for another year, she is starting in September, happy, confident, good network of friends from play school by her side (very important in my book for her confidence) and has all her phonics and half her tricky words already under her belt, and opposed to last year where there was nervousness around the subject of school from her, she is now excited and can't wait for summer to end....!

Hope that gives a little insight from another perspective.

Lastly, think of what age she will be finishing secondary school and off (away possibly) to collage, as my sisters child was going off to collage in Dublin at barely 17!!

overmantle

alroley wrote: »

My sister is a teacher and she says if they're not 5 by December, wait until the next year.

I definitely don't agree. It depends on the child but many children are over ready for school, when parents are over cautious about age grounds. December is completely too early to have as a cut off month.

What can often happen is when a child is let's say 5 and a half (or more) going to school, he or she appears to be extremely bright (in the eyes of their parents). They have probably had a long spell in preschool, are much older than others and appear brighter. Very often the playing field levels out after a few years and the parents who thought they had a prodigy on their hands find it difficult to accept that their child is the same as many others.

I have had children born in February and April who did very well when starting school at 4. Equally a child whom we decided to hold back (because everybody told us he was too young) ended up being a decision we regretted.

Lisa2011

Dravokivich wrote: »

What an absurd Idea. My kid will be turning 5 in the january. Theres no point keeping him back the where he is turning six in juniour infants.

Very true. My brother and his wife will send their son at 4 in September 2016 as he turns 5 the following January.

Your right there is no point in keeping them back a year when they will actually turn 6 during their first year of school.

Regards my niece I do hope her mother changes her mind.

A four year old is definitely not ready to start school only two months after the 4th birthday.

Crew63

Thanks!! nice sharing

mohawk

This debate comes up time and again. When we were kids the norm was 4 but it's 5 now days.

I have a friend whose child is 4 in July and is starting school in September. I think she is mad! My friends rational is that she knows her alphabet and can count etc. However she is a very shy girl who doesn't mix very well with other kids. She isn't my child so I have said nothing to her.

A lot of parents also don't consider things like zippers on coats, opening lunchboxes and drinks etc The teacher is there to teach not open 30 lunches. They need to have some level of independence in order to be ready.
My son is 6 in a few weeks and is no way near the oldest in Junior Infants. His school prioritises older kids when enrolling the Junior Infants classes which is very common for most of the local schools. One of the local schools has an April cut off ie if the child isn't 4 by the April then they have to hold off until they are 5. It might be worth reading the enrolment policy for the school when making the decision.

titchy

The majority of children starting school are 5+

So while the child may be well able at 4-4.5 you could have a 15 year old (almost 16) friends with with 17.5 year olds.

16 year old getting invited to 18ths
17 year old up against 19 year olds in the points race.

Majority that i know were turning/had turned 19 doing the LC because of TY.

The J Stands for Jay

titchy wrote: »

Majority that i know were turning/had turned 19 doing the LC because of TY.

That seems far too old, a young adult like that in a school uniform being treated like a child. When I was 19 I'd done two years of university and was working in the States for a year's work placement.

titchy

McGaggs wrote: »

That seems far too old, a young adult like that in a school uniform being treated like a child. When I was 19 I'd done two years of university and was working in the States for a year's work placement.

I know that's true...but it's really changed now and late 18 early 19 is the average age, where I am anyway, combining the later starting age and TY being so popular,

Just something to take into consideration. That it seems fine at primary school level but the later years of secondary will see them in/ competing against peer groups a lot older than them.

A year and a half is nothing to adults but at 16/18 I think there is a difference.

boogerballs

This is something I've been thinking alot about, my daughter was born in December. I'm in two minds as whether to send her when she is 4 years 9 months or wait until she is a year older. As some here have said she'd be turning 6 after just 3 months of Junior infants. Another concern is she is very tall for her age, people are often surprised when they hear how old she is and comment they would have thought she was at least a year older and I wouldn't want her to really stand out against her class mates. It's a hard decision to make.

katydid

alroley wrote: »

My sister is a teacher and she says if they're not 5 by December, wait until the next year.

That's strange, coming from a teacher. It really depends on the child. Some are raring to go at four, others need the extra time.

katydid

McGaggs wrote: »

That seems far too old, a young adult like that in a school uniform being treated like a child. When I was 19 I'd done two years of university and was working in the States for a year's work placement.

The answer to that is to treat students in the LC cycle as adults, not children. No uniform, different rules.

athtrasna

athtrasna wrote: »

You need to look beyond the present to the future. If the children go to a secondary school without a transition year they then might be very young going to university. My birthday is January so I was 4 and 3/4, I was one of the youngest in my class and was the youngest by a mile on my university course. 4 might not be too young to go to school but in my opinion 17 is too young to go to university.

Or they might end up doing TY and repeating the leaving and being much older than their classmates
They also don't have to go to uni straight away, they might work for a year

I think you should look at if the child is ready now or not and go from there instead of whatifs 15 years down the line. It depends on the child.

sarahv

overmantle wrote: »

I definitely don't agree.

I have had children born in February and April who did very well when starting school at 4. Equally a child whom we decided to hold back (because everybody told us he was too young) ended up being a decision we regretted.

I'm curious, why did you end up regretting the decision to hold your child for a year? I have a march born son and have enrolled him for this September. As the date approaches though I'm wondering whether to leave him till next year when he is 5 and a half

annoyedgal

Having just had Junior Infants last year, ill throw in my 2 cents. First want to say it's completely an individual decision as each child is different and at different stages of development so ill speak only of my own experience.

Three boys with a july birthday who were 4 starting were still 4 finishing at the end of the year. Two will need learning support next year as they really struggled with phonics, reading and writing. The other lad did pretty well.

The kids who were 5 or 5 and a half starting on the whole breezed through the year. A small few however struggled. It really depends on the child. I think parents probably know themselves if their child is ready, def consult with their playschool to see what they think.

If in doubt err on the side of caution and wait the extra year. Will do them absolutely no harm and plenty of good. Schools don't like kids repeating anymore unless really necessary. We had one boy move school in order to repeat as we wouldn't hold him back. He was just 4 starting and mum really regretted her decision. Again, depends on your own child and their circumstances.

sarahv

Thanks. I think he might cope ok this year but I'm wondering about holding him to prevent problems further on down the line. Hanging around with kids nearly a year older etc. He is a good child but extremely active (can be a bit of a messer) He likes to be on the go all the time. He's the one at home who loves doing 'jobs' like watering the flowers or helping in the kitchen etc. I hate to think of him getting in trouble for not being able to sit. I'm not sure if that will improve with age however which is why we decided to put him in. Socially he loves company and wouldn't be intimated by the older ones, the only thing is if they pushed he might push back twice as hard! I suppose he might be that bit more immature than them