Win or lose today - Can we keep it civilised?

Black Menorca

I always say, and try to live by it, it's important to be a good loser but even more important to be a good winner.

If Yes wins today it will be a truly historic event.

Ireland will be the first nation on this planet where the people have voted to extend marriage rights to same sex couples.

Now I my side lost, but I will have the good grace to congratulate the Yes side, admire the way you were able to muster so many people who maybe never voted before to turn out and embrace this change as best I can.

Why embrace it? Well I am an out and proud Irish man and want to make this place as good a little country as is possible.

Petty triumphalism and name calling will diminish the historic result and take away from what is a wonderful result for all Yes voters.

Irish politics is pretty unique I think. We fight tooth and nail in campaigns but can have a pint when its all done and dusted and move on to the next one.

So try to keep the purile name calling out of it, enjoy your win and enjoy it with good grace.

Icepick

The no side is already amassing resources for the next abortion referendum. Now that will be proper drama.

Black Menorca

Icepick wrote: »

The no side is already amassing resources for the next abortion referendum. Now that will be proper drama.

And I will be putting my shoulder to that wheel if and when it happens.

But I think you have completely missed the point of my original post?

Icepick

Black Menorca wrote: »

And I will be putting my shoulder to that wheel if and when it happens.

But I think you have completely missed the point of my original post?

you lost after a hateful campaign but want to be friends, please?

Black Menorca

Icepick wrote: »

you lost after a hateful campaign but want to be friends, please?

I'd settle for being civil to one another.

Is that too much to ask?

Black Menorca

Black Menorca wrote: »

I always say, and try to live by it, it's important to be a good loser but even more important to be a good winner.

If Yes wins today it will be a truly historic event.

Ireland will be the first nation on this planet where the people have voted to extend marriage rights to same sex couples.

Now I my side lost, but I will have the good grace to congratulate the Yes side, admire the way you were able to muster so many people who maybe never voted before to turn out and embrace this change as best I can.

Why embrace it? Well I am an out and proud Irish man and want to make this place as good a little country as is possible.

Petty triumphalism and name calling will diminish the historic result and take away from what is a wonderful result for all Yes voters.

Irish politics is pretty unique I think. We fight tooth and nail in campaigns but can have a pint when its all done and dusted and move on to the next one.

So try to keep the purile name calling out of it, enjoy your win and enjoy it with good grace.

After what my gay friends have gone through over the last few weeks, I'll not be surprised if they give the same name calling back to the no camp.

Honestly!

Wang King

Black Menorca wrote: »

I'd settle for being civil to one another.

Is that too much to ask?

Pity the no side didn't take that line when they ran their campaign

PeteFalk78

Ffs both sides are too blame. The Yes side calling all people who vote No as homophobes and bigots was a bad start.

I'm afraid you won't get your serene utopia today Menorca. Just be glad it's all over and the drama can be left for real world problems.

LorMal

Icepick wrote: »

you lost after a hateful campaign but want to be friends, please?

I think the joy of a Yes result has been utterly ruined by the nastiness shown by so many on the yes side.
I have never witnessed such a level of scorn and derision - against anyone who even expressed an opposing viewpoint based on their sincerely held beliefs.
I really hope we don't have an abortion referendum next.

Icepick

PeteFalk78 wrote: »

Ffs both sides are too blame. The Yes side calling all people who vote No as homophobes and bigots was a bad start.

I'm afraid you won't get your serene utopia today Menorca. Just be glad it's all over and the drama can be left for real world problems.

oh, the irony

PeteFalk78

Icepick wrote: »

oh, the irony

Yeah you know poverty, employment, health, housing etc. Stuff that really deserves the country's attention.

mark_79

Yes , keep it civil everybody. No screeching or slapping or pulling each others hair.

PeteFalk78

mark_79 wrote: »

Yes , keep it civil everybody. No screeching or slapping or pulling each others hair.

Icepick

PeteFalk78 wrote: »

Yeah you know poverty, employment, health, housing etc. Stuff that really deserves the country's attention.

All those things are closely associated with basic human rights.

mark_79

Icepick wrote: »

All those things are closely associated with basic human rights.

In the pecking order marriage, gay or otherwise doesn't even begin to compare to them.

Sleeping rough tonight? Diagnosed with terminal cancer? Lost your job? No food on the table? Oh well, could be worse. Just think of poor John and Larry next door.....

Black Menorca

PeteFalk78 wrote: »

Ffs both sides are too blame. The Yes side calling all people who vote No as homophobes and bigots was a bad start.

I'm afraid you won't get your serene utopia today Menorca. Just be glad it's all over and the drama can be left for real world problems.

I still think there are enough people on the Yes side who will take on this victory with a good grace.

Serene Utopia would be just boring too.

Black Menorca

OK, this thread also goes out out No voters.

Whats the point in re-living the campaign today? The results will be in soon.

Maturity is required from both sides.

listermint

mark_79 wrote: »

In the pecking order marriage, gay or otherwise doesn't even begin to compare to them.

Sleeping rough tonight? Diagnosed with terminal cancer? Lost your job? No food on the table? Oh well, could be worse. Just think of poor John and Larry next door.....

Equality is not mutually exclusive.you can't pick and choose what's important.

If you think you can then you need some enlightenment my friend .

Back when women were refused the right to vote.industry was more important.

Do you comprehend that much?

Icepick

mark_79 wrote: »

In the pecking order marriage, gay or otherwise doesn't even begin to compare to them.

Sleeping rough tonight? Diagnosed with terminal cancer? Lost your job? No food on the table? Oh well, could be worse. Just think of poor John and Larry next door.....

You are failing to make the connection between discrimination and poverty.
But I agree that if the no side donated their vast resources to children charities instead of spending it on a campaign of fear and hate, it would have both helped and showed they actually care about children.

LorMal

Icepick wrote: »

You are failing to make the connection between discrimination and poverty.
But I agree that if the no side ahd donated their vast resources to children charities instead of spending it on a campaign of fear and hate, it would have both helped and showed they actually care about children.

This is absolutely the type of ****e that annoys me. Instead of eating today, why don't you go without and give the money to poor children to show that you actually care about children.

belfe

Black Menorca wrote: »

OK, this thread also goes out out No voters.

Whats the point in re-living the campaign today? The results will be in soon.

Maturity is required from both sides.

Results will be in soon and (I hope) the yes will win.

But discussions will be in the society for years. Whatever the result of the referendum is, the no voters will think that same sex marriage shouldn't be allowed and yes voters will think that should be.

The campaign is finished, the debate is just started.

LorMal

belfe wrote: »

Results will be in soon and (I hope) the yes will win.

But discussions will be in the society for years. Whatever the result of the referendum is, the no voters will think that same sex marriage shouldn't be allowed and yes voters will think that should be.

The campaign is finished, the debate is just started.

Oh please no!!

Icepick

LorMal wrote: »

This is absolutely the type of ****e that annoys me. Instead of eating today, why don't you go without and give the money to poor children to show that you actually care about children.

How do you know I am not doing that?

And my eating equals spending money on hateful posters and TV ads how exactly?

Gooners

Black Menorca wrote: »

Now I my side lost, but I will have the good grace to congratulate the Yes side, admire the way you were able to muster so many people who maybe never voted before to turn out and embrace this change as best I can.

I don't think the yes side mustered non-voters at all. I think the Irish people for a change felt a need to come out and vote, to have a voice to make a difference.

belfe

LorMal wrote: »

Oh please no!!

Don´t worry, not in TV or in the streets

But when someone is getting a same-sex marriage, every relative and neighbour will think that has the right to give its opinion.

LorMal

Icepick wrote: »

How do you know I am not doing that?

And my eating equals spending money on hateful posters and TV ads how exactly?

Well done. Try going for the full week.

LorMal

belfe wrote: »

Don´t worry, not in TV or in the streets

But when someone is getting a same-sex marriage, every relative and neighbour will think that has the right to give its opinion.

I'm sure it become a non issue in time. I actually think there are way way more important issues that need addressing in this country but this was a handy issue for the Government to look all cool and trendy - and to distract from issues like our level of indebtedness with people losing their homes etc

PopePalpatine

And I'm sure civil rights was a handy way for the Kennedy and LBJ administrations to look "cool and trendy" too.

LorMal

PopePalpatine wrote: »

And I'm sure civil rights was a handy way for the Kennedy and LBJ administrations to look "cool and trendy" too.

Spare me the drama. Mitchelstown is Burning.

galljga1

PeteFalk78 wrote: »

Ffs both sides are too blame. The Yes side calling all people who vote No as homophobes and bigots was a bad start.

I'm afraid you won't get your serene utopia today Menorca. Just be glad it's all over and the drama can be left for real world problems.

As opposed to unnatural? abomination? filthy? disgusting? and not just in the last month either.

LorMal

galljga1 wrote: »

As opposed to unnatural? abomination? filthy? disgusting? and not just in the last month either.

And what about the Burning Crosses in the gardens? No, wait....

PopePalpatine

Oh, are we playing Oppression Olympics today?

Black Menorca

Gooners wrote: »

I don't think the yes side mustered non-voters at all. I think the Irish people for a change felt a need to come out and vote, to have a voice to make a difference.

There are massive numbers in areas of working class Dublin. Unprecedented.

The Yes side did a wonderful job in getting people who never voted before, to vote yesterday. This cannot be denied.

Black Menorca

I would love those who voted for the first time today to come out again next year in the GE and hopefully vote. As most will share my Left leaning (Labour Party) politics on the economy.

marienbad

Black Menorca wrote: »

I still think there are enough people on the Yes side who will take on this victory with a good grace.

Serene Utopia would be just boring too.

Why be gracious in victory ? After the no side running a vicious mendacious win at all costs campaign I am looking forward (in between the rugby) to an afternoon of watching them having to suck it up, one of life's small pleasures .

Black Menorca

marienbad wrote: »

Why be gracious in victory?

Maybe because it would be the right thing to do?

marienbad

Black Menorca wrote: »

Maybe because it would be the right thing to do?

Sure , like you winding up posters on the other thread with one liners for page after page , was that the right thing to do ?

No I prefer to watch ye have to suck it up .

Black Menorca

marienbad wrote: »

Sure , like you winding up posters on the other thread with one liners for page after page , was that the right thing to do ?

No I prefer to watch ye have to suck it up .

I openly congratulate the Yes campaign. We're all Irish citizens and want whats best for this country and all who live here.


Politics is about debate, arguement, disagreement and working together within the democratic structures.

If you allow bitterness dominate the end of a successful campaign you do yourself and your cause a disservice in my view. In debates in the future we will no doubt be on the same side.

Thats the beauty of politics, especially in this country.

marienbad

Black Menorca wrote: »

I openly congratulate the Yes campaign. We're all Irish citizens and want whats best for this country and all who live here.


Politics is about debate, arguement, disagreement and working together within the democratic structures.

If you allow bitterness dominate the end of a successful campaign you do yourself and your cause a disservice in my view. In debates in the future we will no doubt be on the same side.

Thats the beauty of politics, especially in this country.

Pity you weren't like this when the issue was still open , show me a good loser and I'll show you a loser .

I shudder to think what would be said if ye won. Last time ye lost it was ''wife swapping sodomites'' , what will it be this time I wonder ?

No better to watch ye suck it up

Black Menorca

marienbad wrote: »

Pity you weren't like this when the issue was still open , show me a good loser and I'll show you a loser .

I shudder to think what would be said if ye won. Last time ye lost it was ''wife swapping sodomites'' , what will it be this time I wonder ?

No better to watch ye suck it up

I can only put it out there as a hope. I think I will get it too. I have faith in the Irish people.

marienbad

Black Menorca wrote: »

I can only put it out there as a hope. I think I will get it too. I have faith in the Irish people.

Too little too late , you were ungracious when it mattered .

Black Menorca

marienbad wrote: »

Too little too late , you were ungracious when it mattered .

I debate all day during a campaign but graciously accept victory or defeat in the same way.

Judging by the reaction of the Yes campaign this morning, they are being very amicable and dealing very well with their victory.

Great to see too.

uck51js9zml2yt

I'm already seeing the gloating at the count centre. Who was that woman screaming the house down ??

Sheldons Brain

We see here the sneering triumphalism, not unlike we saw when the DUP won back East Belfast. Some political movements have no class.

Last time ye lost it was ''wife swapping sodomites'' , what will it be this time I wonder ?

Perhaps now we'll have husband swapping sodomites.

Black Menorca

As I've said already, graciousness and respect after the campaign is over should come from both sides.

Maybe its because some involved here aren't used to political debate and don't know the etiquette of political debate in this country?

Immature tantrums have no place and in fairness we've seen none of this in official circles.

mark_79

Isaac Gifted Parakeet wrote: »

I'm already seeing the gloating at the count centre. Who was that woman screaming the house down ??

Leo Varadker

PopePalpatine

Let the immature gay jokes begin!

desertcircus

"Now that it's over and the No side can't claim media bias if anyone points out the endless lies coming from their campaign to deny equality to gay and lesbian couples, can we keep it civil?"

No chance. The figureheads of the No campaign are due a reckoning for running the most shamessly dishonest campaign I've ever seen.

mark_79

PopePalpatine wrote: »

Let the immature gay jokes begin!

PopePalpatine

mark_79 wrote: »

[.IMG]http://i.ytimg.com/vi/vfXdQCOIrE0/hqdefault.jpg[/IMG]

So...about that civility you guys were asking for...

Black Menorca

PopePalpatine wrote: »

So...about that civility you guys were asking for...

I was asking for. You came in to bait and got your reaction. Well done to the two of you.