With all the online vendors, any suggestions for bike shop businesses?

Trojan

I was just discussing bike shops as a business with someone recently. CRC, Wiggle, etc have put a massive dent into many casual purchases. Even if the shops have their own online shop they find it nigh on impossible to compete on price.

Any suggestions for independent bike shop owners on how to stay profitable in 2015+ and avoid the race to the bottom in price competition with online giants?

fat bloke

People will virtually elbow their grannies in the face to save tuppence ha'penny on purple XXL overshoes from some Czech Republic website so you're wasting your time trying to compete there. And you can never have enough stock to keep everyone happy.

You gotta do what online businesses can't do and will never be able to do. E.g. service and repair. And the quicker the better. My bike is currently in for a full service. I dropped it in last Thursday and it's still there. Won't be ready until (maybe) tomorrow. That's fine, I was told that when I booked it in, it's a busy shop. Would've been pretty awesome if they could have had it for me the following day. But the wait and queue and time clearly means they've a backlog, which means there's a market, which means there's an opening.

Let fellas buy their 60% off chains and cassettes and cables and derailleurs on fahrrader-sind-unds.de all they like, and bring them in and charge them to fit all that stuff properly and set the bike up.
Also, I think 150 euro bike fits are overpriced. I think a 60 quid hour is enough. An awful lot more people would avail of that and you'd still make your money.

Finally I think like there is in the UK now, destination/social type shops/cafe's have a place. Think Brown Thomas for bikes, blokes and birds . Cycling on the telly, couches and coffee.

omri

Yeah repairs and spare parts are what they make most money on in the bike shops. I doubt that whoever gives you/me/others paychecks at the end of the month will throw an extra few hundred out of the goodness of their hearts so you can shop at the high street at the high street prices - so yeah I don't feel bad about "elbowing the granny in the face to save tuppence ha'penny on purple XXL overshoes from some Czech Republic" and shop where's cheaper

tailendcharlie

Sponsor a club and cycle with that club and give a club discount and employ racing cyclists, works very well for Stagg cycles in Lucan

Setup a half arsed shop in a unit with a good catchment area and flog bikes of dubious quality to naive bike to work customers </sarcasm>

omri

However I think there is a certain amount of other cyclists that just want to go in to the shop, pick a bike, try it, buy it and pay for everything else. They will never visit this forum or do any maintenance work on their bikes or shop online for the cheapest deals possible.

xebec

fat bloke wrote: »

You gotta do what online businesses can't do and will never be able to do. E.g. service and repair. And the quicker the better. My bike is currently in for a full service. I dropped it in last Thursday and it's still there. Won't be ready until (maybe) tomorrow. That's fine, I was told that when I booked it in, it's a busy shop. Would've been pretty awesome if they could have had it for me the following day. But the wait and queue and time clearly means they've a backlog, which means there's a market, which means there's an opening.

This is the one that bugs me. I'm happy to book my bike in at a time when the shop will turn it around quickly even if it means I have to wait a week to put the bike in, at least I have my bike. But a shop taking my bike for a week for a basic service is pretty annoying. If you can't turn around the bikes you are getting in quickly, then put in place a scheduling system which means you don't have to keep bikes in store and can give a 1-2 day turnaround.

I've stopped using a south Dublin shop now because of repeated incidences of the above, tried one of the other 4 shops within 2km of me and the service was much better.

ted1

Trojan wrote: »

I was just discussing bike shops as a business with someone recently. CRC, Wiggle, etc have put a massive dent into many casual purchases. Even if the shops have their own online shop they find it nigh on impossible to compete on price.

Any suggestions for independent bike shop owners on how to stay profitable in 2015+ and avoid the race to the bottom in price competition with online giants?

Form a co op to increase their buying power , just like expert for hardware stores

Shedite27

Recent experience with a local bike shop would make me avoid them in the future. After receiving €1700 from me for a bike on a Saturday told me they were too busy to attach the pedals and to come back during the week. Got home and realised they were the wrong pedals then!

With a few bad eggs like that about it's easy to see why the local bike shop is avoided.

And BTW, are LBS's really struggling? Seem to be far too many of them at the moment. Can't all be doing bad.

rubadub

fat bloke wrote: »

Let fellas buy their 60% off chains and cassettes and cables and derailleurs on fahrrader-sind-unds.de all they like, and bring them in and charge them to fit all that stuff properly and set the bike up.

I was thinking people could come in and get a consultation and buy the bike online with you. Not sure how to do it exactly. Maybe pay €40-50 for an hour consultation, showing them all the styles of bikes, then go online and show them all the good shops, and which ones suit them, size & style, possibly have some deal setup with a shop to get a discount for referrals. Then charge more if the bike needs to be built when it arrives, possibly have it delivered to your premises so people do not have extra hassle.

It would seem some countries have lower RRP and presumably lower wholesale prices so you might not even be able to get it wholesale for the same price some sell for online.

They do not have to buy one there and then, you could have them on your books and if you see deals in your daily searching you could notify them. You still get your original consulation fee, it could be €20 for 20mins, depending how indepth they need to go. They probably make it back anyway with the deals you would find.

iwillhtfu

If they have the square footage I always liked the idea of a bike shop come cafe. There's a unbelievable mark up on coffee etc so one might help with the prices in the bike shop part.

L'Enfer du Nord

Seems fairly hard to get a second hand bike from a shop. Not sure how you would source them but a shop with a wide selection of second hand bikes would be good. I frequently have friends asking me about bikes, I think a second hand hybrid for 200-400 is a good bet for a beginner. Plenty on Adverts I suppose. Not so easy to find in a shop.

OldBean

In no real order...

As already mentioned; service, servicing and repairs.

Offer a 'class' rate if someone wants to learn something - From replacing a tube to the bottom bracket; +50% of the price it'd take you guys.

Don't concentrate on just the latest carbon fibre racing gear;

CRC, Wiggle, etc are great if you want the lightest, newest pieces of kit that people who ride bikes a lot faster than I ever will use. But there's very few places that have a good selection of (Silver!) hubs and rims, nice racks and panniers (Again, most places have kit that will do for riding a bike through a monsoon or into war, but I've not seen a single Giles Berthoud pannier in Ireland), Velo Orange, Nitto and Rivendel kit. It's pretty specialist, but it demands a price for it being specialist that people are willing to pay. There's a serious lack of pretty (vain) bike stuff out there.

Ditto for marino wool jersey's, nice mitts and the like.

Buy a Chemex or three, a grinder and get a good coffee supplier. Send interested staff to 3FE or similar for a brewing class, and have great coffee without the overheads of a two group espresso machine. Cyclists will only be too happy to have to wait a few minutes in the shop for their brew.

Cycleworx in Lucan do turbo trainer spinning classes, which I always thought would be a great idea if it weren't a pretty far cycle for me, and I have zero motivation to do them. But still, if you have the space to let people turn up with their own bikes, hook them in to a turbo and get paid to shout at them for an hour... do it.

ted1

L'Enfer du Nord wrote: »

Seems fairly hard to get a second hand bike from a shop. Not sure how you would source them but a shop with a wide selection of second hand bikes would be good. I frequently have friends asking me about bikes, I think a second hand hybrid for 200-400 is a good bet for a beginner. Plenty on Adverts I suppose. Not so easy to find in a shop.

They would need to charge VAT, fix them up and warranty them. The price wouldn't be too far off what they get new ones for

unichall

Again like most people are saying, don't compete with them, offer what they can't. Coffee shop is the big one for me, also hire cyclists as staff and create a nice social environment where people can watch races, talk shop and tech etc etc

Another option would be to offer finance or hire purchase on higher priced items. I also like all the other suggestions re: turbo classes, servicing workshops, cheaper bike fitting, perhaps organised group spins for non club cyclists. Basically anything and everything you can't get online will help you edge online competition

Daroxtar

How many shops in the country hire decent spec bikes? It'd be nice to be able to properly test a bike for a few days for a reasonable fee.

Wanderer78

Daroxtar wrote: »

How many shops in the country hire decent spec bikes? It'd be nice to be able to properly test a bike for a few days for a reasonable fee.

im currently looking for a new bike and this is the problem im facing. im a mountain biker and i feel theres even less bikes available to me to check out compared to road bikes. this would be a great idea but it seems like a lot of the manufacturers arent really bothered about ireland compared to other countries for supplying demo bikes. i have only been able to rent a couple of bikes in various parts of the country in order to properly check them out. its a shame really but since im gonna spend a couple of grand, i dont wanna pick the wrong bike.

crosstownk

I find it hard to believe that people are happy leave their bikes in for a regular service and are told it will be ready in a few days/weeks.

Is it not reasonable that the bike shop tells you today (Wednesday) that they are fully booked and they won't get to it until Tuesday of next week and that in the meantime you can continue to have full use of your bike and when you drop it in on Tuesday you can collect it the same day?

I've heard similar stories from a few cyclists and it appears to me that some (not all) bike shops do not 'load' their workshop.

If there are X mechanics working Y hours per day then it should be quite easy to load the workshop. Obviously it is necessary to keep hours aside for sales work and emergency/breakdown work. A simple diary works well.

Maybe I've spent far too much time in the management of aftersales in the motor trade but what I can say is that if you left your car in for a service and were told it would be ready in a few days you wouldn't accept it - you'd expect an appointment. However, cars take up more space (and are more valuable in general) so the garage wouldn't want them blocking the forecourt. Bikes can be stored easier and maybe the shop see it as guaranteed work as it's now in their care.

I do all my maintenance myself so I don't have much experience of bike shops but on the odd occasion that I left my bike in to my LBS for some warranty issues it was ready for collection the same day. I wouldn't have left it in if I wasn't going to have it back the same day unless parts availability/breakdown was a factor. I'd make an appointment.

CatFromHue

Are bike shops struggling? I can't think of any that have shut down that were open 5-10 years ago and that's with the introduction of Halfords to market in my area too.

The last bike shop that I can think of that shut down in my area did so about 20 years ago.

rodneyTrotter.

CatFromHue wrote: »

Are bike shops struggling? I can't think of any that have shut down that were open 5-10 years ago and that's with the introduction of Halfords to market in my area too.

The last bike shop that I can think of that shut down in my area did so about 20 years ago.

Speaking of which , whatever happened to Hardings on the quays ?

L'Enfer du Nord

rodneyTrotter. wrote: »

Speaking of which , whatever happened to Hardings on the quays ?

It turned in to a long narrow super pub called Panamas or something. Terrible place.

L'Enfer du Nord

ted1 wrote: »

They would need to charge VAT, fix them up and warranty them. The price wouldn't be too far off what they get new ones for

The profit or the price? Either way I take you point, it probably explains why trade in offers are fairly low and secondhand bikes are both rare and over priced in bike shops.

Wishbone Ash

CatFromHue wrote: »

Are bike shops struggling? I can't think of any that have shut down that were open 5-10 years ago and that's with the introduction of Halfords to market in my area too..

Cyclogical and Cycle Hub spring to mind.

L'Enfer du Nord

Could Dublin support a Bianchi bike and coffee shop? Bikes maybe a little pricey, but not much more than Trek or Giant unless I'm mistaken.

CatFromHue

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Cyclogical and Cycle Hub spring to mind.

Fair enough I don't know them but in my area there are a few bike shops that have been around for ages. The one in Dun Laoghaire, the one in Johnstown, the one in Booterstown, and then there's the addition of Halfords up in Carrickmines too.

fat bloke

crosstownk wrote: »

I find it hard to believe that people are happy leave their bikes in for a regular service and are told it will be ready in a few days/weeks.

It's silly alright. I'm trying out a new service. Dropped the bike in a week ago. Was told it would take a week. Rang yesterday and they hadn't touched the bike yet, so essentially they've just been storing my bike for a week which doesn't make sense to me for anyone concerned.

CatFromHue

Well for them it means you can't take it anywhere else so they've got the job still.

nok2008

I think that the bike to work scheme has increased the turnover in last 5 years dramatically for lbs especially with people replacing bikes with new ones and usually a lot dearer ones!! Probably a very high percentage still buy bike from lbs and get repairs from same place

jon1981

fat bloke wrote: »

It's silly alright. I'm trying out a new service. Dropped the bike in a week ago. Was told it would take a week. Rang yesterday and they hadn't touched the bike yet, so essentially they've just been storing my bike for a week which doesn't make sense to me for anyone concerned.

All the more reason to do stuff yourself, that's crazy!
Out of interest I asked a bike shop in town how long would a service take and they said it would be a day turn around. I wonder, does that say something about the quality of the service? or are they just organised? They only had 2 ppl working there.

crosstownk

fat bloke wrote: »

It's silly alright. I'm trying out a new service. Dropped the bike in a week ago. Was told it would take a week. Rang yesterday and they hadn't touched the bike yet, so essentially they've just been storing my bike for a week which doesn't make sense to me for anyone concerned.

Maybe it's time to get firm (not narky) with them and ask them when they can do it. If they give you a day next week or whatever then tell them you need your bike back in the meantime (assuming it's OK to ride).

Surely the aim of the LBS is to keep the cyclist on the bike rather than store it...?

Seriously, being told by anyone in any service industry that they'll get to when they can is totally unacceptable in this day and age.

An indeterminable delay is only acceptable if there is a problem with parts availability.

It seems there's a lack of understanding of basic customer expectations on behalf of the LBS.

Gordy6040

L'Enfer du Nord wrote: »

Seems fairly hard to get a second hand bike from a shop. Not sure how you would source them but a shop with a wide selection of second hand bikes would be good. I frequently have friends asking me about bikes, I think a second hand hybrid for 200-400 is a good bet for a beginner. Plenty on Adverts I suppose. Not so easy to find in a shop.

Couldn't agree more

Daroxtar

fat bloke wrote: »

It's silly alright. I'm trying out a new service. Dropped the bike in a week ago. Was told it would take a week. Rang yesterday and they hadn't touched the bike yet, so essentially they've just been storing my bike for a week which doesn't make sense to me for anyone concerned.

I'm getting vexed just reading that. Ridiculous/no organisation there. As said already, when you go to the garage with your car you make an appointment, leave your car and pick it up as scheduled unless there's a disaster.
I wouldn't leave the bike there for another minute. As long as they're getting away with that they'll keep doing it. Take your bike back and if they want your trade they'll have to reschedule to suit you.

terrydel

L'Enfer du Nord wrote: »

Seems fairly hard to get a second hand bike from a shop. Not sure how you would source them but a shop with a wide selection of second hand bikes would be good. I frequently have friends asking me about bikes, I think a second hand hybrid for 200-400 is a good bet for a beginner. Plenty on Adverts I suppose. Not so easy to find in a shop.

No second hand market for anything in this country, we are obsessed with having the latest and greatest. Another horrible by-product of the horrid Celtic Tiger years. Cages being the prime example.

As for coffee shops, would only work in a location people would like to cycle to. City centre or suburbs it would be a waste of money I reckon.

terrydel

CatFromHue wrote: »

Are bike shops struggling? I can't think of any that have shut down that were open 5-10 years ago and that's with the introduction of Halfords to market in my area too.

The last bike shop that I can think of that shut down in my area did so about 20 years ago.

Cycle Inn Tallaght has.

ted1

crosstownk wrote: »

Surely the aim of the LBS is to keep the cyclist on the bike rather than store it...?

If it's taking that long you may as well post it to an online shop based in China get them to service it and you'll have it back sooner .
Totally defeats the purpose of an LBS, I'd expect same day turn around, especially if I book it in , in advance.

manafana

bought new bike recently, one of key selling points was that a bike fight was included in the purchase. Wasn't the super fancy bike fit that you pay 150euro for (too much in my view) but covered alot of the angles etc based on my body against my current set up interesting and good way to get the bike how you like it. Was in fitzcycles btw

iwillhtfu

terrydel wrote: »

As for coffee shops, would only work in a location people would like to cycle to. City centre or suburbs it would be a waste of money I reckon.

Perhaps then they might have to think outside the box as some of the coffee shops have done. Caffe Banba springs to mind.

Cycle shop could be bricks and mortar in a busy location with coffee shop for like minded people and no F'in hipsters with top knots.

The mobile van/cycling accessories/coffee stop could head to the more remote locations and if based in Dublin then this trip wouldn't be far. I'm sure if someone set up something like this I'd imagine they'd be busy on the Wicklow/Dublin mountains for most of the summer. I'm sure there are similar spots in other counties.

Feck I'll go pitch it to Dragons Den and set up a go fund me page

tailendcharlie

terrydel wrote: »

No second hand market for anything in this country, we are obsessed with having the latest and greatest. Another horrible by-product of the horrid Celtic Tiger years. Cages being the prime example.

As for coffee shops, would only work in a location people would like to cycle to. City centre or suburbs it would be a waste of money I reckon.

If they put one at the top of howth hill it would do a roaring trade

2 Wheels Good

Strava mapped the best London cycling cafes. A combination of location, good coffee and some creative thinking on how to make money from the online purchasers would make a good business idea.

Tenzor07

So we've gone from what bike shops can do to turning them into coffee shops? :rolleyes:
Having a bike/coffee shop in locations such as Howth summit would be a massive cost and wouldn't make any money, apart from maybe one day a week, Sunday.

As for fancy brand stores, they'd probably loose money and close within a couple of months also.

We have the Giant brand stores in places like Dublin and Cork, they make most of there money in the sub-€1000 category. Anyone looking to spend €2k plus will most likely know exactly what they want and order it online anyways...

So, to make a success a bike shop needs to stock plenty of sub €1000 bikes, cheap kids bikes.. actually..that sounds like Halfords!

manafana

Tenzor07 wrote: »

So we've gone from what bike shops can do to turning them into coffee shops? :rolleyes:
Having a bike/coffee shop in locations such as Howth summit would be a massive cost and wouldn't make any money, apart from maybe one day a week, Sunday.

As for fancy brand stores, they'd probably loose money and close within a couple of months also.

We have the Giant brand stores in places like Dublin and Cork, they make most of there money in the sub-€1000 category. Anyone looking to spend €2k plus will most likely know exactly what they want and order it online anyways...

So, to make a success a bike shop needs to stock plenty of sub €1000 bikes, cheap kids bikes.. actually..that sounds like Halfords!

I find the more im likely to pay for bike the more I will go to a shop for the service when making such a purchase. I got to test ride my latest purchase was happy with the service so went ahead and bought

terrydel

tailendcharlie wrote: »

If they put one at the top of howth hill it would do a roaring trade

Theres a lovely little coffeshop on Howth hill iirc, think the owner has some vintage cars out back and 2 huge dogs!
Nice chap too.
Think he might only open certain times of the year, which is understandable.

terrydel

Tenzor07 wrote: »

So we've gone from what bike shops can do to turning them into coffee shops? :rolleyes:
Having a bike/coffee shop in locations such as Howth summit would be a massive cost and wouldn't make any money, apart from maybe one day a week, Sunday.

As for fancy brand stores, they'd probably loose money and close within a couple of months also.

We have the Giant brand stores in places like Dublin and Cork, they make most of there money in the sub-€1000 category. Anyone looking to spend €2k plus will most likely know exactly what they want and order it online anyways...

So, to make a success a bike shop needs to stock plenty of sub €1000 bikes, cheap kids bikes.. actually..that sounds like Halfords!

And vastly overpriced everything else

Beasty

Cycling has grown enormously in recent years which has helped keep a lot of bricks and mortar shops in business. Many of those now have an online presence also, and I think anyone thinking about opening a new shop would be best off trying to do it while building up an online store also

Price-wise the online retailers are always going to win-out, due to economies of scale and reduced overheads.

The idea of combining a shop with a cafe has already been mentioned. That's only going to work with the right location. Given the popular ones are going to be away from built-up areas, that diminishes the chances of passing custom

I think the way forward is to build on the upturn in cycling, which has been partly fuelled by the BTW scheme. Service and servicing has already been mentioned as the thing that helps differentiate an LBS from an online shop. The key though is quality and speed of service/convenience, which comes down to having and keeping good mechanics.

I can think of one family-run north Dublin shop that has built a great reputation through the quality of service they offer (and I'll be going out of my way over the next few days to take 3 wheels to the to get some tubs fitted) - it seems to me their model works very well (even if they don't have that online presence), but that's because the "family" side of it ensures they keep their biggest asset - the mechanic who is a family member. Other shops do seem to suffer (based on comments I've seen in this forum) when they lose a mecahnic with a great reputation.

Tenzor07

This looks like a great idea for small independent bike shops: LINK

terrydel

Tenzor07 wrote: »

This looks like a great idea for small independent bike shops: LINK

Good idea but very easily replicated. I think software like this, cycling or otherwise, generally ends up going one way, usually in the medium term. Its sold to a bigger fish, and this usually ends up being a negative for the customer.
Have seen it a number of times in my own line of work.

smacl

Beasty wrote: »

I think the way forward is to build on the upturn in cycling

I agree, but as with any new business venture I think a bit of lateral thinking is required and a closer examination of potential markets. If I was going to set up a bike shop, I'd tend to look for a gap in the market and specialise in serving that gap. One huge gap that springs to mind from first hand experience is in high quality children's bikes. Even in the UK, Islabikes seem to have cornered the market, and I reckon there is plenty of scope in Dublin for a bike shop specialising in light, robust, simple kids bikes that are made to be functional rather than glitzy toys. Add in trailers, trail gators etc... and maybe some parent and child cycling lessons and I reckon you could mop up. There's also a significant trade in / trade up business potential as kids grow. Given the childhood obesity scare, I'd say throw in a bit of clever marketing, media promotion and political lobbying, and you could easily get into a lucrative enough niche without too much competition from the CRCs of this world.

Having been in business for myself for way too long now, it's always a hard call starting up no matter which way you do it, and a fair amount boils down to being brave and taking a punt.

smacl

fat bloke wrote: »

People will virtually elbow their grannies in the face to save tuppence ha'penny on purple XXL overshoes from some Czech Republic website so you're wasting your time trying to compete there.

At the same time, if you took a three identical bottles of whiskey, put different labels on them, sold one for €15, one for €25 and one for €50, you'd be shocked at the number of people that would buy the expensive one. Cynic that I am, I think there's a lot of that goes on in the bike industry. Only sayin'...

stecleary

ronoc wrote: »

Setup a half arsed shop in a unit with a good catchment area and flog bikes of dubious quality to naive bike to work customers </sarcasm>

call it a cool name like hal's frauds

Beasty

smacl wrote: »

One huge gap that springs to mind from first hand experience is in high quality children's bikes. Even in the UK, Islabikes seem to have cornered the market, and I reckon there is plenty of scope in Dublin for a bike shop specialising in light, robust, simple kids bikes that are made to be functional rather than glitzy toys.

The problem is though that kids quickly grow out of bikes. From what I've seen here I really cannot imagine there is a great demand at the high end of the kids market. To the extent there is such a demand I suspect people will typically buy their Islabikes online

desertcircus

One thing I'd suggest (more of a defensive/reactive suggestion rather than a positive or proactive one) is that shops should keep an eye on the prices charged on the likes of Wiggle. Forget saving a euro on purple Czech overshoes - I had to buy a replacement pair of reversible SPD/platform pedals a couple of months ago, and wanted to go for a local option. I gave up on that once I was quoted a price of over sixty euro in two different shops for a pair of Shimano M324s and found them on Wiggle for barely over half that. A fiver or a tenner might be manageable, but a thirty-quid difference just isn't sustainable.