farm roadways

tullyGirl

Im interested in building a farm roadway through my farm as i am planning on changing to a paddock based grazing system.
Im looking for help to figure out costs and quantity i will need in tonnes.
3"down and 804 on top.
My plans are for 4-5m wide by aprox 800m in lenght.
Any help would be great,
Thanks.

raypallas

Depending on your ground, if you have good solid subsoil you will have a good foundation. 5m is a very wide farm roadway, how many stock are you going to have on it? A vibrating roller is money well spent, as you will have little or no subsidence afterwards.

Muckit

Are you suckler or dry stock? I would consider a roadway unnecessary for paddock grazing if drystock or even sucklers if you are running a bull. That amount of roadway the guts of half a hectare.

Take away productivity off this, payments and the cost of putting it in. l'd be seriously considering if it is really necessary.

Milked out

Will be hoping to do similar here this year, from what I understand if you have rock or gravel on farm it would reduce the cost significantly over buying material in. I have no figures yet but I think teagasc have a guide somewhere on rough costs. Some have just reversed the topsoil and sub soil to make a roadway for cattle mainly which worked ok on dry ground don't know for how long but I think part of that idea was that you could reinstate the field easy enough.
on roadways themselves they are a god send as they make moving stock a one man show as well as reducing damage to ground by allowing more access for machinery and beast with diference gaps etc and can allow you to get cattle out earlier and later by making it easier to let them in and out and back fencing etc

just do it

Milked out wrote: »

Will be hoping to do similar here this year, from what I understand if you have rock or gravel on farm it would reduce the cost significantly over buying material in. I have no figures yet but I think teagasc have a guide somewhere on rough costs. Some have just reversed the topsoil and sub soil to make a roadway for cattle mainly which worked ok on dry ground don't know for how long but I think part of that idea was that you could reinstate the field easy enough.
on roadways themselves they are a god send as they make moving stock a one man show as well as reducing damage to ground by allowing more access for machinery and beast with diference gaps etc and can allow you to get cattle out earlier and later by making it easier to let them in and out and back fencing etc

+1

PN14

Calculation for amount of stone

4m wide road (as stated above 5m wide very wide for farm roadways just leave gaps off road wide enough and you'll be able to swing in machinery / trailers if required)

800m long 4m wide say 200mm deep = 640m3 x 2.2tns /m3 = 1,408 tns at say 20tn per load = 70 loads

800m long 4m wide say 150mm (6") deep = 480m3 x 2.2tns /m3 = 1,056 tns at say 20tn per load = 53 loads

Also would suggest that terram is used under the stone. It stops the soil mixing with the stone. Its well worth the extra cost generally 150m per roll so 6 rolls required.

frazzledhome

Cow roads here is €20 per linear meter all bought and levelled with 360 machine. 4m wide

Shale used and travelling 10 miles

Muckit

Milked out wrote: »

Will be hoping to do similar here this year, from what I understand if you have rock or gravel on farm it would reduce the cost significantly over buying material in. I have no figures yet but I think teagasc have a guide somewhere on rough costs. Some have just reversed the topsoil and sub soil to make a roadway for cattle mainly which worked ok on dry ground don't know for how long but I think part of that idea was that you could reinstate the field easy enough.
on roadways themselves they are a god send as they make moving stock a one man show as well as reducing damage to ground by allowing more access for machinery and beast with diference gaps etc and can allow you to get cattle out earlier and later by making it easier to let them in and out and back fencing etc

From your username l am making the assumption that you are dairy? A no brainer if that is the case. The cows will be using it twice a day every day. And it no wonder you don't need to do calculations on cost as there is the comfort of knowing that your investment can be met from the monthly milk cheque!! :-)

The OP hasn't revealed their enterprise so again I am assuming beef cattle.

On the topic of moving cattle, you open the fence and they walk into the next paddock, simples:-) You shouldn't need a permanent roadway to get around the farm to graze it all. If ground is too wet, they should be in the shed.

Dosing.... can be easily done when they come around to the paddocks/fields nearest the yard.

Sick animal? Set up temp laneways with geared reels.

Also perhaps think about bringing the mountain to muhammad. There are grants for mobile penning. I'd spend on this before lorry loads of gravel and roadways that will rarely be used.

So what if cattle bog a wet spot where you're running them along a temp laneway. When it recovers they can eat the grass off it, they'd be a long time atin' gravel!

Same goes for machinery. What good is a permanent roadway to a wet field?

In conclusion, my view is that permanent roadways are an unnecessary expense fot the vast majority of beef farms anotare not needed to set up a paddock grazing system. Better spent on pipe, extra troughs and elec fencing.

mythos110

PN14 wrote: »

Calculation for amount of stone

4m wide road (as stated above 5m wide very wide for farm roadways just leave gaps off road wide enough and you'll be able to swing in machinery / trailers if required)

800m long 4m wide say 200mm deep = 640m3 x 2.2tns /m3 = 1,408 tns at say 20tn per load = 70 loads

800m long 4m wide say 150mm (6") deep = 480m3 x 2.2tns /m3 = 1,056 tns at say 20tn per load = 53 loads

Also would suggest that terram is used under the stone. It stops the soil mixing with the stone. Its well worth the extra cost generally 150m per roll so 6 rolls required.

Rule of thumb is usually 1.6 tns/m3 is it not? That would make 3/4 of your totals but still a significant spend.

Greengrass1

frazzledhome wrote: »

Cow roads here is €20 per linear meter all bought and levelled with 360 machine. 4m wide

Shale used and travelling 10 miles

Was priced 5/t + vat yesterday plus haulage on top because this lad hos no lorry. Great stuff all it needs is a 13t digger on it to press it in

PN14

Cl 804 is 2.2 tns / m3.

6" down around 2.0 ths /m3

Larger rockfill 1.6tns / m3

This is compacted.

GY A1

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Was priced 5/t + vat yesterday plus haulage on top because this lad hos no lorry. Great stuff all it needs is a 13t digger on it to press it in

Get a large roller and compact it well.

Username John

Muckit wrote: »

From your username l am making the assumption that you are dairy? A no brainer if that is the case. The cows will be using it twice a day every day. And it no wonder you don't need to do calculations on cost as there is the comfort of knowing that your investment can be met from the monthly milk cheque!! :-)

The OP hasn't revealed their enterprise so again I am assuming beef cattle.

On the topic of moving cattle, you open the fence and they walk into the next paddock, simples:-) You shouldn't need a permanent roadway to get around the farm to graze it all. If ground is too wet, they should be in the shed.

Dosing.... can be easily done when they come around to the paddocks/fields nearest the yard.

Sick animal? Set up temp laneways with geared reels.

Also perhaps think about bringing the mountain to muhammad. There are grants for mobile penning. I'd spend on this before lorry loads of gravel and roadways that will rarely be used.

So what if cattle bog a wet spot where you're running them along a temp laneway. When it recovers they can eat the grass off it, they'd be a long time atin' gravel!

Same goes for machinery. What good is a permanent roadway to a wet field?

In conclusion, my view is that permanent roadways are an unnecessary expense fot the vast majority of beef farms anotare not needed to set up a paddock grazing system. Better spent on pipe, extra troughs and elec fencing.

You never considered they might have sheep Muckit

Tisn't so easy to put up a temp fence for em

I put in a few roadways, and I only have the few sheep. Found em very handy, as tis no fun to be trying to run sheep from a bare paddock, through half-grown paddock, into another one... They just don't seem to listen when you tell them there is better grass in the next one

(altho the same argument re expense vs reward could be made maybe)

I said

Put a roadway in a few years ago saves on tearing up ground and moving cattle is so handy open gate and they go the direction you want them to with paddock/block grazing.
Once they get used to moving the likes of getting in for testing or treating takes all the rooting and bolloxing out of it a half hour job takes just that,no messing at all.

fanadman1

going to be doing this in the winter but the one thing that is going to save me a fortune is that i wont need to buy in stone :L
i knew that one day that fine pencil hill would prove very handy

freedominacup

fanadman1 wrote: »

going to be doing this in the winter but the one thing that is going to save me a fortune is that i wont need to buy in stone :L
i knew that one day that fine pencil hill would prove very handy

If the digger isn't just digging the fill out quickly, as in all he needs is a half days head start before the dumpers arrive to have a stockpile, then stone delivered at less than €10/tonne will probably be better value.

fanadman1

freedominacup wrote: »

If the digger isn't just digging the fill out quickly, as in all he needs is a half days head start before the dumpers arrive to have a stockpile, then stone delivered at less than €10/tonne will probably be better value.

Im widening an existin road whice is sitting beside the rock face if you get me this is where the stone will be comeing from abd it will need to be moved anyway if you get where im comeing from. Ahould have about 1 mile of a road for under a 1000 euro if the men i had priceing it up are to be belived

Miname

Rough stone ungraded round here delivered at €120 a ton. I've been considering roadways for a while and was going to put this in as a base with limestone screenings as a top late to seal it all in.

tomieen jones

Miname wrote: »

Rough stone ungraded round here delivered at €120 a ton. I've been considering roadways for a while and was going to put this in as a base with limestone screenings as a top late to seal it all in.

120 a ton? You mean 120 a load of about 20 ton I'm assuming

Sam Kade

If you have good subsoil and an excellent track machine operator you could do a reversible road. No need to buy in stone and the road can be taken out at any stage.

just do it

Sam Kade wrote: »

If you have good subsoil and an excellent track machine operator you could do a reversible road. No need to buy in stone and the road can be taken out at any stage.

How well do those work out? How well do they last the test of time particularly in high rainfall areas?

Sam Kade

just do it wrote: »

How well do those work out? How well do they last the test of time particularly in high rainfall areas?

If you have the right subsoil they will last forever. The forestry always make them around here where they have fully loaded artics traveling over them.

keep going

Where do ye put the fence posts on farm road ways.i have them along the edge of the stone but im thinking of moving the wire out about 18 inchs to 2 ft as the edges build up over the years

frazzledhome

Just put in 800m here all shale with larger pieces tracked in first then covered with crushed shale or slig as its known around here.

Bigger removed the sod and that was used to fill some hollows and make good an spot near yard that needed tidying.

60 lorry loads @€;150 came to €9000
9000/800 came in at €11.25/m at 4m wide
Not sure of digger cost yet as he did other works while here.

All other roads came in at €15/m and this looks similar

I said

frazzledhome wrote: »

Just put in 800m here all shale with larger pieces tracked in first then covered with crushed shale or slig as its known around here.

Bigger removed the sod and that was used to fill some hollows and make good an spot near yard that needed tidying.

60 lorry loads @€;150 came to €9000
9000/800 came in at €11.25/m at 4m wide
Not sure of digger cost yet as he did other works while here.

All other roads came in at €15/m and this looks similar

Christ I got lucky when we hit gravel on the farm saved me a fortune by the looks of it

Kevhog1988

They built a new road bypassing our village last year. I did the yard out the back of stables in stone for parking machinery on etc with the stuff they dug out and planings. Rolled the life out of it in layers with compactor on the pedestrian roller we have for laying tarmac. Got right into the corners etc. I was paying the lads 80 euro for an 8 wheel waggon load.

Cousin has gravel on there land, He used it for filling floors etc on the house build. i estimated that again we dug it out of the pit and drew with the tractors etc it would have been more ecenomical to buy in if he had of been paying wages etc. (i gave him a weekend on the basis hell give me a hand when i do mine).


Road planings are serious gear if anyone can get there hands on it?? we put them down in car parks here. The asian lads go mad for it as way cheaper than tar.

frazzledhome

I said wrote: »

Christ I got lucky when we hit gravel on the farm saved me a fortune by the looks of it

How much per meter?

Milked out

frazzledhome wrote: »

Just put in 800m here all shale with larger pieces tracked in first then covered with crushed shale or slig as its known around here.

Bigger removed the sod and that was used to fill some hollows and make good an spot near yard that needed tidying.

60 lorry loads @€;150 came to €9000
9000/800 came in at €11.25/m at 4m wide
Not sure of digger cost yet as he did other works while here.

All other roads came in at €15/m and this looks similar

Did you have roll or just tracked it in? What depth did you go with the larger material. Had to put off ours this year put may try and do part next year. Have shale rock here but finding the right spot and cost of breaking it out must be worked out yet

freedominacup

Milked out wrote: »

Did you have roll or just tracked it in? What depth did you go with the larger material. Had to put off ours this year put may try and do part next year. Have shale rock here but finding the right spot and cost of breaking it out must be worked out yet

If there's a breaker involved the cost is too high.

Milked out

freedominacup wrote: »

If there's a breaker involved the cost is too high.

That's why I mentioned finding the right spot as the rock above the surface is a bitch to break whereas the stuff below can be softer and the the digger could pull it out, don't want to waste time and money finding out either tho if it can be brought in cheaper. Local quarry wouldn't be as good as frazzs price id say. Last roadway done here was thru wet ground so needed more material and the rock broken out allowed us to mow an extra 2 or 3 acres as well.

frazzledhome

Milked out wrote: »

Did you have roll or just tracked it in? What depth did you go with the larger material. Had to put off ours this year put may try and do part next year. Have shale rock here but finding the right spot and cost of breaking it out must be worked out yet

Tracked in

I said

frazzledhome wrote: »

How much per meter?

Pm sent

freedominacup

Milked out wrote: »

That's why I mentioned finding the right spot as the rock above the surface is a bitch to break whereas the stuff below can be softer and the the digger could pull it out, don't want to waste time and money finding out either tho if it can be brought in cheaper. Local quarry wouldn't be as good as frazzs price id say. Last roadway done here was thru wet ground so needed more material and the rock broken out allowed us to mow an extra 2 or 3 acres as well.

In the right spot here we'd be the exact opposite. Anything up to the reach of the digger down of easy to dig stuff but at any point you can meet a vein of really hard stuff and then you have two options. Change the direction youtr digging in or pull the plug on that vein and try to strike somewhere else. Unless you've got ditches to shift it can be a pain. A big hole in some fairly random spot in a paddock. They get filled eventually but not how you'd like things.

Milked out

freedominacup wrote: »

In the right spot here we'd be the exact opposite. Anything up to the reach of the digger down of easy to dig stuff but at any point you can meet a vein of really hard stuff and then you have two options. Change the direction youtr digging in or pull the plug on that vein and try to strike somewhere else. Unless you've got ditches to shift it can be a pain. A big hole in some fairly random spot in a paddock. They get filled eventually but not how you'd like things.

I know what u mean alright, you won't find out till u go at it really and at that unlikely to not need a breaker for some part. Have ditches to bury as well but have to replace them as well with the new rules I think, all tho we have a couple of acres of a Glen type field that I may see if that would keep em happy instead of putting in hedges. I'll have to talk with dad about a few spots on farm and then sus out the contractor and local quarry and do the maths. Would be less hassle and a faster job to bring it in alright.

Wegian

We have dug out to see what's under the surface and found approx 2 ft of Soil and an abundance of Gravel underneath.

Would the following approach be madness (own digger and labour)?
Dig out 2ft of soil and leave to one side
Dig out 2ft of gravel and leave to other side
Bury the soil and at the bottom and cover with gravel - effectively swapping the location of soil / gravel
Compact with roller / digger
Fill in the gaps with bought in stone

mayota

Wegian wrote: »

We have dug out to see what's under the surface and found approx 2 ft of Soil and an abundance of Gravel underneath.

Would the following approach be madness (own digger and labour)?
Dig out 2ft of soil and leave to one side
Dig out 2ft of gravel and leave to other side
Bury the soil and at the bottom and cover with gravel - effectively swapping the location of soil / gravel
Compact with roller / digger
Fill in the gaps with bought in stone

If you could take gravel out of a hill elsewhere it would be faster. 4' is a lot of digging for a roadway and it would be hard to keep separate. Stone at €7.50/ton delivered might be the cheaper option.

GY A1

definetly dont put the soil back in and cover over,
that will be a mess

Wegian wrote: »

We have dug out to see what's under the surface and found approx 2 ft of Soil and an abundance of Gravel underneath.

Would the following approach be madness (own digger and labour)?
Dig out 2ft of soil and leave to one side
Dig out 2ft of gravel and leave to other side
Bury the soil and at the bottom and cover with gravel - effectively swapping the location of soil / gravel
Compact with roller / digger
Fill in the gaps with bought in stone

Sam Kade

Milked out wrote: »

I know what u mean alright, you won't find out till u go at it really and at that unlikely to not need a breaker for some part. Have ditches to bury as well but have to replace them as well with the new rules I think, all tho we have a couple of acres of a Glen type field that I may see if that would keep em happy instead of putting in hedges. I'll have to talk with dad about a few spots on farm and then sus out the contractor and local quarry and do the maths. Would be less hassle and a faster job to bring it in alright.

If you planted a hedge at one side of the roadway would that do if you were removing ditches? I've plenty gravel on the farm just below the subsoil and also have ditches to remove to fill the hole.

kowtow

Sam Kade wrote: »

If you planted a hedge at one side of the roadway would that do if you were removing ditches? I've plenty gravel on the farm just below the subsoil and also have ditches to remove to fill the hole.

We have two "roadways" with banks and ditches already running on one side of them, and in one of them a bank & hedge on the other side (that one has been a lane for centuries).

The ditches can run with some fairly significant water in the winter although I don't think they are marked as watercourses. There are also one or two springs which bubble up in a few places alongside them.

Difficult to do anything with the roadways unless we pipe the ditches and fill over them - running the roadway right up to the bank. Would that be a terrible plan?

Deepsouthwest

GY A1 wrote: »

definetly dont put the soil back in and cover over,
that will be a mess

I've done this a few times and it works fine for cow roads, don't think it would stand up to slurry tank etc. u'd easily knock 8/10 yrs out it if it's not beside the parlour ie.getting all the traffic. Ideal for rented ground.

Sam Kade

Deepsouthwest wrote: »

I've done this a few times and it works fine for cow roads, don't think it would stand up to slurry tank etc. u'd easily knock 8/10 yrs out it if it's not beside the parlour ie.getting all the traffic. Ideal for rented ground.

A reversible roadway is what it's called the forestry make them as access roads. A good operator is needed though. The council in mallow made a temporary car park in the town park a few years ago then reversed it back to grass when it wasn't needed any more back in grass now, you'd never know it was there.

Markcheese

Does anyone use geotextile fabric when putting down road ways - probably not terribly cheap - it'd keep the soil and gravel seperate though-
Would it work to just plough the top 6 or 8 inches of top soil - and then use a loader and remove it -(at least to somewhere better than under a road)

td5man

Markcheese wrote: »

Does anyone use geotextile fabric when putting down road ways - probably not terribly cheap - it'd keep the soil and gravel seperate though-
Would it work to just plough the top 6 or 8 inches of top soil - and then use a loader and remove it -(at least to somewhere better than under a road)

Yes to both.

Nettleman

Trying to fix up around the yard for the winter and wana put in some type of hardcore surface on areas where tractor will be driving bales. mostly old filling there for years, but wondering if shale tracked in and maybe a top layer for driving on would do the job? any suggestions for top layer, and cost? not much cattle traffic really

I said

Nettleman wrote: »

Trying to fix up around the yard for the winter and wana put in some type of hardcore surface on areas where tractor will be driving bales. mostly old filling there for years, but wondering if shale tracked in and maybe a top layer for driving on would do the job? any suggestions for top layer, and cost? not much cattle traffic really

I've 804 down it does the trick paid circa 250 a twenty Ton load