Astra engine won't start at all

canhefixit

Ok lads 05 astra h and it's a complete non starter, I drove it this morning pulled into get petrol went to start it again and it wouldn't

Eml came on so scanned and brought up po340 camshaft sensor so replaced it and the crank sensor and still no different

Car is turning over and over but as if it's not being instructed to fire if ya get me

Was recently fully serviced by me including a genuine maf fitted recently

Any ideas?

biko

So car cranks but doesn't fire up.
Could be two things possibly, no spark or no fuel.
Have you recently changed fuel filter or pump?

canhefixit

biko wrote: »

So car cranks but doesn't fire up.
Could be two things possibly, no spark or no fuel.
Have you recently changed fuel filter or pump?

Have just checked for fuel and it's getting there no problems what's the best way to check for spark it's an ignition module, will I take it out and just turn it upside down with plugs in it would that work?

biko

In theory you could remove the ignition cassette and the plugs, put them in again and crank car while looking at the plugs.
This is a really messy way of doing it, hopefully someone else have a better option.
Do you have a volt meter?

canhefixit

biko wrote: »

In theory you could remove the ignition cassette and the plugs, put them in again and crank car while looking at the plugs.
This is a really messy way of doing it, hopefully someone else have a better option.
Do you have a volt meter?

I don't have a volt meter but I might try taking out the module turning upside down and putting spark plugs in and watch for spark

If say it has no spark at all what would I be looking for then, a problem with the module itself?

rex-x

canhefixit wrote: »

I don't have a volt meter but I might try taking out the module turning upside down and putting spark plugs in and watch for spark

If say it has no spark at all what would I be looking for then, a problem with the module itself?

If you try that the plugs must be grounded to the engine or you will get no spark, you cant just turn it over and have them sticking up in the air. The plug grounds through its threads into the head so those threads must be touching clean metal on the engine to test

canhefixit

rex-x wrote: »

If you try that the plugs must be grounded to the engine or you will get no spark, you cant just turn it over and have them sticking up in the air. The plug grounds through its threads into the head so those threads must be touching clean metal on the engine to test

Ok so if I tilt the module with the threads touching some metal on the car would that work? Also can I test one at a time are will I have to test the 4 at once? Cheers

biko

Good point, when I have done this it was long ago on ancient cars and I just hold the plug against the head.

Kinda like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUOmsGiirTU

canhefixit

Ok so checked for spark and it's there too, tried cleaning throttle body too and no joy, since the eml stayed in and brought back up p0340 camshaft senor, now it has been replace already but maybe it's faulty again? Can't get it till tomorrow now so will try a new one and see other than that I havent a clue

biko

If you have fuel and spark the car should at least cough. Hmm, not sure what this could be.

rex-x

Fuel in the rail does not mean the injectors are firing. As a home mechanic which I assume you are, an easy way to test if the injectors are firing is to remove one of the electrical plugs going to one of the injectors, then take a 501 bulb(sidelight bulb) bend down the little metal contacts and stick one in each of the two holes in the injector plug. If the bulb flashes on off on off quickly when cranking then the injectors are being told to fire.

You need to check on proper diagnostics if the cam and crank are synchronized and if the car is being de-immobilised by the key.

Special Circumstances

rex-x wrote: »

Fuel in the rail does not mean the injectors are firing. ... if the car is being de-immobilised by the key.

My (amateur) bet is on this. Have heard of a few of these astras just give up talking to one key. Try a spare?

Chemical Byrne

canhefixit wrote: »

I don't have a volt meter but I might try taking out the module turning upside down and putting spark plugs in and watch for spark

If say it has no spark at all what would I be looking for then, a problem with the module itself?

Defo make sure the blugs are grounded if you do this. if you don't you risk the HT terminal on the coil arcing across to the LT side and potentially cooking the electronics. Service manuals warn against this for that reason.

Also, perhaps you could get a bluetooth ELM 327 and check fuel rail pressures and other parameters to see if anything is out of whack.

B00056718

I know it's very unlikely, but you didn't fill it with diesel?

canhefixit

biko wrote: »

If you have fuel and spark the car should at least cough. Hmm, not sure what this could be.

Not even the hit of a cough just keeps turning over and normally car would start right away on first turn

canhefixit

rex-x wrote: »

Fuel in the rail does not mean the injectors are firing. As a home mechanic which I assume you are, an easy way to test if the injectors are firing is to remove one of the electrical plugs going to one of the injectors, then take a 501 bulb(sidelight bulb) bend down the little metal contacts and stick one in each of the two holes in the injector plug. If the bulb flashes on off on off quickly when cranking then the injectors are being told to fire.

You need to check on proper diagnostics if the cam and crank are synchronized and if the car is being de-immobilised by the key.

Thanks I'll defo try that later today on the injectors, if it isn't injecting why would that be?

I was driving the car stopped for petrol then when going to start it it wouldn't go all of a sudden, no prior warning of anything
Cheers

Special Circumstances

canhefixit wrote: »

Thanks I'll defo try that later today on the injectors, if it isn't injecting why would that be?

On some cars the engine will crank but injectors wont inject if the car is immobilized. In your case a faulty key transponder, faulty "ring" around the ignition switch, or a faulty immobilizer module might be one explanation.
I have heard of problems with the immobiliser in Astras.

Try the trick mentioned here to bring up an error code?
http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=74397

canhefixit

canhefixit wrote: »

Thanks I'll defo try that later today on the injectors, if it isn't injecting why would that be?

I was driving the car stopped for petrol then when going to start it it wouldn't go all of a sudden, no prior warning of anything
Cheers

Ok tried that and light blinks on all 4 injectors so can defo say there is fuel being injected anyway?

Chemical Byrne

Have you tried doing a "hard reset" of the car?

Disconnect the battery and then turn on the ignition and headlights of 15 seconds.

Reconnect the battery and try start it up again.

Probably won't work, but for the sake of 2 minutes work its worth trying.

canhefixit

Special Circumstances wrote: »

On some cars the engine will crank but injectors wont inject if the car is immobilized. In your case a faulty key transponder, faulty "ring" around the ignition switch, or a faulty immobilizer module might be one explanation.
I have heard of problems with the immobiliser in Astras.


Try the trick mentioned here to bring up an error code?
http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=74397

Never heard of those prob a with the astra tbh, the only code still appearing after clearing eml is the camshaft p0340 which I'm gonna put a new one of them in later again and see how it goes, cheers

Chemical Byrne

canhefixit wrote: »

Never heard of those prob a with the astra tbh, the only code still appearing after clearing eml is the camshaft p0340 which I'm gonna put a new one of them in later again and see how it goes, cheers

Mightn't necessarily be the sensor. You should check the connector and trace the cabling back as far as you can to check for damage.

I'd consider the condition of the timing belt/chain too. If it has stretched or the tensioner is faulty it could throw up crank/cam sensor issues as the crankshaft won't be syncing properly with the camshaft. This is a well known issue on 1.5 Nissan Almeras as the cam chains stretch on em.

canhefixit

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

Have you tried doing a "hard reset" of the car?

Disconnect the battery and then turn on the ignition and headlights of 15 seconds.

Reconnect the battery and try start it up again.

Probably won't work, but for the sake of 2 minutes work its worth trying.

Haven't done that no

Is that the same as resetting the ecu with scan tool!

Going to check for spark to ground it can I use front panel of car? Getting onto top is engine is very awkward with plastic in way

Chemical Byrne

Any solidly grounded metal part will do.

You could also use a jump lead. It would clamp around the spark plug quite nicely.

canhefixit

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

Any solidly grounded metal part will do.

You could also use a jump lead. It would clamp around the spark plug quite nicely.

Ok so I just run cable from positive on battery and other end on spark plug will I need to ground it?

What you were saying about hard resetting is that the same as ecu reset or maybe I'll try it anyway cheers

Chemical Byrne

canhefixit wrote: »

Ok so I just run cable from positive on battery and other end on spark plug will I need to ground it?

What you were saying about hard resetting is that the same as ecu reset or maybe I'll try it anyway cheers

JESUS NO!

Run a jump cable between the metal shell of the spark plug and any well grounded metal part of the car. Or the battery NEGATIVE terminal. NOT THE POSITIVE.

With the reset, sometimes disconnecting the battery clears out the volatile memory in the ECU(s). It is a long shot though but has been known to work on some occasions. My sister's passat used to have trouble with the electric handbrake, used to get stuck on. Hard resetting in this manner succeeded in alleviating the problem temporarily until a full repair could be carried out. Quick n easy, worth a try at least, even if it only temporarily clears the error/problem.

Rob32

Sounds like it could be the chain. Do an engine compression test

Chemical Byrne

Rob32 wrote: »

Sounds like it could be the chain. Do an engine compression test

Don't think it's warranted. This happened all of a sudden, compression wouldnt collapse slap bang out of the blue, its more of a gradual decline with progressively harder starting.

Of course we might possibly be overlooking the possibility that the belt/chain has snapped or slipped. That could well throw up a cam sensor fault as the crank n cam would, obviously, be completely out of sync.

Open the cover and check the cam belt/chain OP just ot rule out a major failure.

Rob32

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

Don't think it's warranted. This happened all of a sudden, compression wouldnt collapse slap bang out of the blue, its more of a gradual decline with progressively harder starting.

Of course we might possibly be overlooking the possibility that the belt/chain has snapped or slipped. That could well throw up a cam sensor fault as the crank n cam would, obviously, be completely out of sync.

Open the cover and check the cam belt/chain OP just ot rule out a major failure.

Thats just completely incorrect. Could have dropped a valve, bent a valve, head gasket could have failed, head could have a crack which gave way. Theres many possibilities.

It would be warranted if the tensioner failed/ chain stretched. Theres no real point him looking at the chain unless he knows what hes looking for/at. Compression test lest you know easily if somethings completely outta sync.

canhefixit

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

Don't think it's warranted. This happened all of a sudden, compression wouldnt collapse slap bang out of the blue, its more of a gradual decline with progressively harder starting.

Of course we might possibly be overlooking the possibility that the belt/chain has snapped or slipped. That could well throw up a cam sensor fault as the crank n cam would, obviously, be completely out of sync.

Open the cover and check the cam belt/chain OP just ot rule out a major failure.

I've the plugs out and the pistons are defo moving when I turn it over and it sounds fine not like a bag of spanners when turning so is say chain is grand there is just something not letting it fire up for some reaso

I'm trying the hard reset now

Rob32

canhefixit wrote: »

I've the plugs out and the pistons are defo moving when I turn it over and it sounds fine not like a bag of spanners when turning so is say chain is grand there is just something not letting it fire up for some reaso

I'm trying the hard reset now

If the chain has stretched to the tensioners limit, there wont necessarily be a rattle but it can be out enough for the cam/crank sendor signals to be out of range. The pistons will turn anyway as the starter turns the crankshaft

Rob32

Rob32 wrote: »

If the chain has stretched to the tensioners limit, there wont necessarily be a rattle but it can be out enough for the cam/crank sendor signals to be out of range. The pistons will turn anyway as the starter turns the crankshaft

Did you check the block connector for the maf you disconnected?

canhefixit

Rob32 wrote: »

Did you check the block connector for the maf you disconnected?

Yeah it's defo plugged in

I'm going to get a compression tool and test each cylinder see if it's that, wat pressure should I be expecting and not not hoping for?

Chemical Byrne

Well I know it could collapse if theres a sudden catastrophic failure. But generally such major failures are less common.

Just because it is not noising like a bag of spanners does not necessarily mean the belt/chain is OK. My mothers 1.9D S40 konked out and after much checking I was left sratching my head. It was turning over as normal, no clanking or crunching. Eventualy stuck my fingers in under the the back of the timing belt cover and low and behold, I grabbed a loose loop of broken timing belt. Just check it, costs nothing.

If you have an enclosed chain, maybe you can see the cams through the oil filler? Get an assistant to crank the engine and you watch and see if the cam is moving.

Rob32

canhefixit wrote: »

Yeah it's defo plugged in

I'm going to get a compression tool and test each cylinder see if it's that, wat pressure should I be expecting and not not hoping for?

The readings for each car are different depending on wear etc. But defo over 100psi and each cylinder should be similar. So if ya end up with 96, 96, 40, 0 then cylinders 3 and 4 are the issue.

@chemicalbyrne when the astras came out they were notorious for head gasket/ chain failures as more of them were repaired it became less common but it can still happen.

Chemical Byrne

Worth checking it so.

Rob32

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

Worth checking it so.

Especially with the cam sensor constantly throwing up a fault

murciamc

Check the timing

canhefixit

Right lads upon turning it over and looking to see if cam was turning engine seems to have come to a come stop and will not turn now at all
Is there a handy way to check for chain stretched?

Rob32

canhefixit wrote: »

Right lads upon turning it over and looking to see if cam was turning engine seems to have come to a come stop and will not turn now at all
Is there a handy way to check for chain stretched?

Do you mean because the batteries died?

Take the rocker cover off visually inspect the chain. See how loose it is how and how far the tensioners out

Special Circumstances

Is it still in the petrol station forecourt?
This sounds like a very bad day, even more so if the car is being slowly dismantled in Topaz.

canhefixit

Rob32 wrote: »

Do you mean because the batteries died?

Take the rocker cover off visually inspect the chain. See how loose it is how and how far the tensioners out

Right battery went dead so charged it, car is still turning over and over and over not even a hit of starting, there's fuel and spark getting there but no joy, checked timing and it's fine, checked all fuses all fine at it all day now still no further on

canhefixit

Right lads there is a plug in switch in between injector 2 and 3 and I've tested it and there is no power from it at all does any one no what it is? All 4 injectors r getting power and there is fuel pumped to the rail but I don't think injectors or spraying maybe this switch has something to do with it

Chemical Byrne

Are you sure the wiring to the crank/cam sensors is all intact and free from damage as far as you can see it back along the harness?

If you are still on the petrol station forecourt on day 3 I think you are only codding youself trying to get it going.

Personally if I were you now I'd just call a mechanic to come out, take it away and diagnose and fix it. Your time is surely worth more than to be squandering it fiddling around with this yoke in the petrol station.

canhefixit

I'm at home with the car and a neighbour who used to be a mechanic is helping me here but we can't figure out why is won't start

Chemical Byrne

OK right.

Have ye access to an ELM 327 and TorquePro app or know anyone with them? That might shed some light on whether any parameters are out of whack.

Still, in my opinion 3 days is too much time to be wasting foostering around with a knocked out car.
My advice would be to send it to a proper, competent mechanic at this point.

Next thing you know your started will be shagged from all the turning over.

canhefixit

I don't have access to that yolk, I haven't the funds s to leave it in a garage it's a 2nd car so I'm not stuck without it but still wanna get it going

Does anyone know how many volts are sent to the cam sensor?

Chemical Byrne

Most Haynes manuals I've read would strongly advise against putting a multimeter on sensor leads as there is a possibility of the multimeter frying some of the electronics. Now perhaps those manuals are overly cautions but personally I wouldn't do this unless I 100% knew what I was doing.

Chemical Byrne

Bluetooth Elm 327's are about €10 on ebay. TorquePro app is a free download for android.

canhefixit

Will buy one of them Bluetooth yolks be handy to have anyway, it does seem that it is something electrical or a sensor that is stopping it fromfiring up although the eml isn't on and no stored codes at all

Only thing we came across which may be nothing is some of the leads that go to the cam sensor and that aren't getting that many volt around 5 r 6 also the injector power when I put the bulb into it to test it starts of real bright blinking but after a few blinks starts to really fade out is this normal?

Rob32

canhefixit wrote: »

Right lads there is a plug in switch in between injector 2 and 3 and I've tested it and there is no power from it at all does any one no what it is? All 4 injectors r getting power and there is fuel pumped to the rail but I don't think injectors or spraying maybe this switch has something to do with it

Can ya post a picture of the rail and this extra block connector

canhefixit

I'm on me phone and it won't upload the bloody image, it is just very strange how it was driving one min perfectly then when stopped for 5 mins it refuses to start like not even a hint of trying to start