Will Saudi Arabia go nuclear?

Egginacup

In light of the ever fragmenting situation on the Arabian Peninsula, what with the Saudis having to send their forces to crush a popular uprising in Bahrain 3 years ago and now that they are also engaging ground and air forces against Yemen, it's come to light that the KSA are seeking to become armed with nuclear weapons. The source would be Pakistan who enjoy a very cosy relatonship with the KSA.

Since the KSA is allied, militarily to the US, and have a vested interest in killing anything that is Shia, namely Iran, do you think that Saudi Arabia could go "red" soon? They would do so only with the permission of the US and Nato:

http://nypost.com/2015/05/17/saudi-arabia-to-buy-nuclear-bombs-from-pakistan-report/

http://www.timesofisrael.com/report-saudis-may-purchase-pakistani-atomic-bomb/

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

Don't think they'll be allowed tbf.

GerB40

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

Don't think they'll be allowed tbf.

I don't think they'll ask for permission..

galljga1

I really hope not.

él statutorio

They're probably nuclear already.

Junkyard Tom

Bluff.

strobe

I'd be very very surprised to find out there weren't quite a few nations, SA included, that weren't already nuclearly capable, that aren't on the official list.

Fleawuss

Only if nukes are on sale in Harrods.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

GerB40 wrote: »

I don't think they'll ask for permission..

They're too small and have too many enemies for it to be let go imo.

The Backwards Man

Star Wars 7, Return Of The Jeddah.

Sheep Lover

Will Carlow go nuclear is the bigger question.

Alpha_zero

Saudi Arabia financed 60% of Pakistan's nuclear program and that benevolence may not have gone unrewarded, as this is believed to have been in return for a set number of nuclear armed missiles off the shelf, whenever they should require them.

fleet_admiral

If they do and loads perish it will be free tea towels for the rest of us

Streetwalker

fleet_admiral wrote: »

If they do and loads perish it will be free tea towels for the rest of us

Hilarious

ardinn

Sheep Lover wrote: »

Will Carlow go nuclear is the bigger question.

We went Nuclear years ago - Try to keep up!

Alpha_zero

strobe wrote: »

I'd be very very surprised to find out there weren't quite a few nations, SA included, that weren't already nuclearly capable, that aren't on the official list.

Also there are some nations that are on the nuclear threshold like Japan who have an advanced civilian nuclear infrastructure with the technological prowess to develop nuclear weapons within 6 months. They have put satellites in orbit so have a ballistic missile already.

Germany too have the resources and expertise to quickly develop nuclear should they chose to.

The first step in getting the bomb is building a civilian nuclear power plant.

Mint Aero

Fleawuss wrote: »

Only if nukes are on sale in Harrods.

Brilliant post

jank

Alpha_zero wrote: »

Also there are some nations that are on the nuclear threshold like Japan who have an advanced civilian nuclear infrastructure with the technological prowess to develop nuclear weapons within 6 months. They have put satellites in orbit so have a ballistic missile already.

Germany too have the resources and expertise to quickly develop nuclear should they chose to.

The first step in getting the bomb is building a civilian nuclear power plant.

Heard somewhere that in Japan, if push came to shove they could have nuclear weapons available in 30 days.

Regards Saudi, well they are concerned by recent events in bringing Iran in from the cold. What we see lately is them taking a more pro-active role in matters while the US take a step back. Tbh its almost inevitable that they will go nuclear, especially when Iran seems determined to do the same.

People seem to forget, the recent conflicts in the Middle East have largely nothing to do with the West but which two sects of the Islamic faith gets to dominate the other. Sunni vs Shia. It is not something the west can solve either. With the West backtracking after its failed intervention in Iraq, both main powers in the middle east will be playing the long game for the next 25 years to see who can achieve a regional hegemony.

Jesus Wept

It'd be a laff.

Arsemageddon

ardinn wrote: »

We went Nuclear years ago - Try to keep up!

So you've finally managed to split the turf atom?

Kept that quiet didn't ye, ya sneaky fvckers!

Skylinehead

Sheep Lover wrote: »

Will Carlow go nuclear is the bigger question.

That lot will try anything to keep up with Leitrim :rolleyes:

old_aussie

I think they'll stick with the sword, nice and clean, no fallout, rather than go nuclear.

There's plenty of low pay public service jobs available but I don't think nuke bomb makers is one of them.(thank ***)

the jobs were classified as “religious functionaries” and that they would be at the lower end of the civil service pay scale.”

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/world/executioners-wanted-saudi-arabia-posts-online-job-listing-for-swordsmen-to-carry-out-public-beheadings

conorhal

old_aussie wrote: »

I think they'll stick with the sword, nice and clean, no fallout, rather than go nuclear.

There's plenty of low pay public service jobs available but I don't think nuke bomb makers is one of them.(thank ***)

the jobs were classified as “religious functionaries” and that they would be at the lower end of the civil service pay scale.”

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/world/executioners-wanted-saudi-arabia-posts-online-job-listing-for-swordsmen-to-carry-out-public-beheadings

From experience, the Saudi's have a great distain for manual labour.


The reality is that if Iran get nukes the Saudi's will buy some of Pakistan to ensure that they remain the Sunni powerbrokers in the region.

BuilderPlumber

For such a rich, connected country, Saudi Arabia is very very backward, parochial, racist, voodoo-dominated, tribal and unequal. It is only marginally better than ISIS controlled Syria and Iraq as a society.

This place's bad behaviour and reverence to pre-Islamic animist/voodoo/pagan tribal religious traditions and practices would not look out of place in the more violent pages of the Old Testament. It is also the source of 99% of all Middle Eastern terrorism whether directly or indirectly. The religion there is Wahabism, a sect that gives pre-Islamic voodooism an 'Islamic' official status. This was the thing Mohammed fought against actually. Yet, it is a Western puppet and its arrogant, violent and medieval behaviour is tolerated so much.

Definitely not a country to get nuclear weapons. If this place became a nuclear armed superpower, god help the rest of us.

Zillah

Alpha_zero wrote: »

Saudi Arabia financed 60% of Pakistan's nuclear program and that benevolence may not have gone unrewarded, as this is believed to have been in return for a set number of nuclear armed missiles off the shelf, whenever they should require them.

This is the correct answer. Saudi Arabia is already effectively a nuclear power by proxy. It was actually a really clever way of doing it: get access to nuclear weapons without having to set up reactors or actually build nuclear bombs, and avoid all of the diplomatic fallout that would result.

LDN_Irish

I've read some stuff that states that the populace is far more extreme and conservative than the House of Saud and if they revolt and take over the country it will completely change the current geopolitics. No idea if it's true, anyone have any insight?

Amalgam

LDN_Irish wrote: »

I've read some stuff that states that the populace is far more extreme and conservative than the House of Saud and if they revolt and take over the country it will completely change the current geopolitics. No idea if it's true, anyone have any insight?

It is very very tribal, there's also quite diverse ethnic/social populations within the country, not as unified as you might think. Probably end up like Libya, with bands of the country controlled by distinct groups.

BuilderPlumber

LDN_Irish wrote: »

I've read some stuff that states that the populace is far more extreme and conservative than the House of Saud and if they revolt and take over the country it will completely change the current geopolitics. No idea if it's true, anyone have any insight?

I think that the opposition in all Middle Eastern states apart from Iran are either dominated by an ISIS or an al Qaeda style group inclusive of ISIS and al Qaeda themselves. The main opposition in Saudi Arabia is al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula.

I think the House of Saud is very much afraid of these and implements its tribal, fascist, repressive laws to appease these. Wahabi priests and police control things and these may well be part of AQAP. Members of the royal family live Western-style lifestyles in secret too.

A so-called 'Islamic Revolution' in Saudi Arabia would be the world's worst nightmare. If it was to happen, a rich and powerful anti-West terrorist state would emerge and Iran would become the West's new ally. Oil shortages, another war and terror would result and a Mad Max scenario could come out of it too. Saudi, Iraqi and Iranian oil would be restricted certainly.

Grayson

conorhal wrote: »

The reality is that if Iran get nukes the Saudi's will buy some of Pakistan to ensure that they remain the Sunni powerbrokers in the region.

That's fa more likely than building them.

Plus I don't think they really need to. They have oil and petty much can control what happens to it. So for the next 50 years they don't need to worry about it. Besides the fact that they are a counterweight to Iran. If they were in actual danger the US would step up to the mark.

elefant

strobe wrote: »

I'd be very very surprised to find out there weren't quite a few nations, SA included, that weren't already nuclearly capable, that aren't on the official list.

Like which? Why would they develop nuclear weapons and then not tell anyone about it? Surely it would defeat the main purpose of actually having them at all.

Amalgam

elefant wrote: »

Like which? Why would they develop nuclear weapons and then not tell anyone about it? Surely it would defeat the main purpose of actually having them at all.

..it's called, 'Nuclear ambiguity', if you have a quick read of the Wiki on Israel and nuclear weapons, it hits on that policy of nuclear ambiguity and goes into the rationale, not being recognised by the NPT (Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty) very much has its advantages.

Nuclear weapons and Israel

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapons_and_Israel

nokia69

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

Definitely not a country to get nuclear weapons. If this place became a nuclear armed superpower, god help the rest of us.

I don't think you could call them a nuclear superpower unless they also had a good delivery system which I very much doubt they would ever get

I know someone who was in the British army and he spent some time in saudi arabia, he thinks their army is a joke, they spend billions on amazing high tech weapons but the people who use it are the most incompetent fools he ever saw in uniform

BuilderPlumber

nokia69 wrote: »

I don't think you could call them a nuclear superpower unless they also had a good delivery system which I very much doubt they would ever get

I know someone who was in the British army and he spent some time in saudi arabia, he thinks their army is a joke, they spend billions on amazing high tech weapons but the people who use it are the most incompetent fools he ever saw in uniform

This precisely makes it more scary. Saudi Arabia is primarily the way it is because the royal family are cow towing to the country's very powerful religious extremists. The problem is an organisation like ISIS or al Qaeda could take it over. And the progress ISIS are making as it is is scary.

Son Of A Vidic

The world's leading state sponsor of Sunni extremist terrorism and great violator of Human Rights - Saudi Arabia. Can probably do whatever they want, because they'll always have the full blessing & tacit support of their hypocritical US buddies.

nokia69

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

This precisely makes it more scary. Saudi Arabia is primarily the way it is because the royal family are cow towing to the country's very powerful religious extremists. The problem is an organisation like ISIS or al Qaeda could take it over. And the progress ISIS are making as it is is scary.

ISIS are a group like them will take over, its just a matter of time IMO

there are up sides to having ISIS in power in saudi arabia, at least the west might not allow them to continue building and controlling mosques all over the world

biko

We should nuke from orbit, it's the only way to be sure.

elefant

Amalgam wrote: »

..it's called, 'Nuclear ambiguity', if you have a quick read of the Wiki on Israel and nuclear weapons, it hits on that policy of nuclear ambiguity and goes into the rationale, not being recognised by the NPT (Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty) very much has its advantages.

Nuclear weapons and Israel

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapons_and_Israel

That's very specifically the case for Israel though, who are as good as admitting they have nuclear weapons but won't be bare-faced about it for political reasons. Everyone knows they have nuclear weapons so there is just as much a deterrent as if they were parading them.

What are the other nations among the 'quite a few' who are possessing nuclear weapons but saying nothing about it? It wouldn't make any political sense, unless some rogue nation was targeting an out-of-the-blue attack on another leading to their own inevitable destruction.

BuilderPlumber

nokia69 wrote: »

ISIS are a group like them will take over, its just a matter of time IMO

there are up sides to having ISIS in power in saudi arabia, at least the west might not allow them to continue building and controlling mosques all over the world

What the West and other countries should do is find alternatives to Saudi Arabia for oil. Develop good relations with Iran and other places and you will find a lot of things will improve.

The world has relied on a the rogue nation of Saudi Arabia for way too long. It is the worst offender in the region when it comes to human rights abuse and state sponsored terrorism. The place is loaded with money but spends nothing on the people. ISIS and the Saudi royal family could well do a deal if needs be as well. I'd be almost certain ISIS get funding from some elements of Saudi Arabia's political, religious or business sectors.

smurfjed

The place is loaded with money but spends nothing on the people

Says who?? You really need to do some research prior to statements like this.

Have you actually gone to Saudi Arabia?

captainfrost

Always thought they had before. They why is that hollywood potral Rich Arabs as nuclear, women, gold and oli loving fellow?
But even if they do not have, this people do not look like they give a sh1t about permission.

BuilderPlumber

smurfjed wrote: »

Says who?? You really need to do some research prior to statements like this.

Have you actually gone to Saudi Arabia?

Saudi Arabia should be a modern, moderate enlightened civilisation. Instead, it is an animist backward voodoo culture where stone age beliefs live side by side with skyscrapers. Connected people and those who go along with making money for the 3000 year old animist/voodoo church there as well as their corrupt royal patrons do well. But what about the ordinary people? No. Many live nomadic lives, many live in poor shanties, many face the most appalling of punishments for minor offences.

Look at that guy in the news at the moment. He gets flogged every few weeks and then gets 10 years in prison. And no that's not the worst of it. The animist voodoo regime is not above borrowing from the non-violent means of Ceaucescu either: when he is free from prison he has a 240000 debt and can't leave the fascist hellhole for 10 years. In other words, he will starve to death then (if the fascist voodoo cult still is around in 10 years). And no he is not an ISIS or al Qaeda terrorist!! But guilty of just requesting more freedoms. Which is a crime in this fascist neo-Nazi country.

Saudi Arabia is blessed with oil reserves, an ancient civilisation and a coastline and climate that would attract billions of tourists. It squanders it all because of their stubborn and arrogant belief in a religion that predates Judaism, Christianity and - surprise! - Islam. It still adheres to the intolerant beliefs Moses, Jesus and Mohammed all rebelled against.

smurfjed

Have you actually gone to Saudi Arabia?

Based on your response above, i take it you haven't visited Saudi Arabia!

nokia69

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

What the West and other countries should do is find alternatives to Saudi Arabia for oil

OPEC and the saudis are finished

Zebra3

Egginacup wrote: »

what with the Saudis having to send their forces to crush a popular uprising in Bahrain 3 years ago

Can you please explain why Saudi Arabia HAD to invade a neighbouring country and crush pro-democracy demonstrations?

Surely they had the option not to invade?

smurfjed

HAD to invade

They were asked to provide assistance by the King of Bahrain who also happens to be a sunni.

nokia69

Zebra3 wrote: »

Surely they had the option not to invade?

true

but from their point of view the shia had to be crushed

thats why they are backing ISIS with so much money

BuilderPlumber

Zebra3 wrote: »

Can you please explain why Saudi Arabia HAD to invade a neighbouring country and crush pro-democracy demonstrations?

Surely they had the option not to invade?

Because ALL these royal families are friends of each other and have a cozy club going. If one Gulf monarchy falls, it could mean the others do. Saudi Arabia don't want this to happen for obvious reasons.

BuilderPlumber

nokia69 wrote: »

true

but from their point of view the shia had to be crushed

thats why they are backing ISIS with so much money

This is precisely it. The Saudis have been active about crushing all other forms of Islam apart from their tribal primitive Wahabi sect for decades. Saudi money took down the Pahlavi dynasty that were about to make Iran the second richest Asian power after Japan. Saudi money fueled tensions in Palestine, Israel and Lebanon. Saudi money created the Afghan 'Islamic' resistance that would become al Qaeda and the Taliban. Saudi money continues to undermine Iran, Iraq and other rivals. Saudi money supports other likeminded Gulf/Arabian Peninsula monarchies. And Saudi money also supports ISIS.

But the US and the West continue to support Saudi Arabia because the alternative is a world like this:

http://madmax.wikia.com/wiki/Mad_Max_2

Zebra3

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

Because ALL these royal families are friends of each other and have a cozy club going. If one Gulf monarchy falls, it could mean the others do. Saudi Arabia don't want this to happen for obvious reasons.

But that's still a choice they made.

smurfjed

They still have a long way to go before the world turns its back on oil....

India consumed 637.8 million tons of oil and oil equivalent natural gas, coal, nuclear energy, hydro electricity and renewable energy.
This consumption was dwarf in comparison to 2972.1 million tons of oil equivalent energy consumed in China and 2298.7 million tons in the US.
It was also lower than Russia's 681.9 million tons but more than Japan's 456.1 million tons oil equivalent energy consumption.