Suitable Career For the part time farmer

Toplink

Bit of an off the wall topic for ye.

I am in my mid 30s with a wife and a few kids. I have a good job in the financial services industry but it consumes 50 hours plus a week. My parents are still young and healthy thankfully so I wont be taking over the farm for anther 5 years or so. My wife has a steady civil servant role albeit a low paying one.

I will be operating as a low percentage partner over the next few years and availing of top ups etc. Looking down the line when I do take over I know financially that full time suckler farming wont pay all the bills so I will have to back it up from somewhere. I also realize that if I want to continue calving down 40 cows plus a year it isnt feasible in my current career. A career which I am not overly excited about anyway and it I get the next 5 years out of it I reckon i'll be happy.

So I have 5 years to plan ahead. I want to farm and ideally stick to sucklers. What sort of a job or business would suit a partime suckler farmer?

A mate of mine does a few BER assessments whilst farming away but the wifes people have plenty of cash so there is no mortgage on that house

Teaching is the obvious one I suppose but not sure i'll go that route at this stage.

Timmaay

Why stick to sucklers, why not drystock? But anyways the whole BER assessment thing was a total white elephant, the only people who benefited were the lads doing the training courses, it's a real closed shop also, so unless you know an architect or engineer who will give you work I definitely wouldn't bother. But plenty of other self employed trades which would suit part time farming, however you gotta fine one that number 1 interests you above just earning money.

Teaching isn't nearly as good as it use to be either, you'd have 4 years of college, then afew years of very temporary jobs (if you can even find them).

None of this is hugely positive ha, but nay one definite start is to plan how you can make them 40 acres work as best for you, and the general consensus here seems to be maximise any government payments and pick a simple low input beef system. Otherwise rent it to a local dairy farmer and take a nice big tax free lump sum every year ha.

Username John

Toplink wrote: »

Bit of an off the wall topic for ye.

I am in my mid 30s with a wife and a few kids. I have a good job in the financial services industry but it consumes 50 hours plus a week. My parents are still young and healthy thankfully so I wont be taking over the farm for anther 5 years or so. My wife has a steady civil servant role albeit a low paying one.

I will be operating as a low percentage partner over the next few years and availing of top ups etc. Looking down the line when I do take over I know financially that full time suckler farming wont pay all the bills so I will have to back it up from somewhere. I also realize that if I want to continue calving down 40 cows plus a year it isnt feasible in my current career. A career which I am not overly excited about anyway and it I get the next 5 years out of it I reckon i'll be happy.

So I have 5 years to plan ahead. I want to farm and ideally stick to sucklers. What sort of a job or business would suit a partime suckler farmer?

A mate of mine does a few BER assessments whilst farming away but the wifes people have plenty of cash so there is no mortgage on that house

Teaching is the obvious one I suppose but not sure i'll go that route at this stage.

I think we are all a bit guilty of this in a way Toplink...

I dunno if asking us lot for suggestions to replace "A career which I am not overly excited about anyway" is the right way to go

I guess the question is, what are you excited about?

But, to provide something useful I was surprised to hear that people pay other people to grass measure - it makes perfect sense to do so, I just never thought about it before I guess.

It got me thinking, is there such a thing as a grass specialist? If so - how does one go about becoming one?

Measuring growth is the thing that put it in my mind. But what about the other elements - nutrition / value of the grass, soil sampling, return of fertilisers into actual grass?

Maybe this is already done, or maybe there isn't that much to it and I am only showing my ignorance... :P

Just what entered my head after reading the grass measuring bit that's all...

blue5000

How about milking cows for someone else? I hear a few noobies are pissed off already:(

Toplink

blue5000 wrote: »

I hear a few noobies are pissed off already:(

Did they anticipate that they would milk themselves?

Toplink

Username John wrote: »

I think we are all a bit guilty of this in a way Toplink...

I dunno if asking us lot for suggestions to replace "A career which I am not overly excited about anyway" is the right way to go

I guess the question is, what are you excited about?

But, to provide something useful I was surprised to hear that people pay other people to grass measure - it makes perfect sense to do so, I just never thought about it before I guess.

It got me thinking, is there such a thing as a grass specialist? If so - how does one go about becoming one?

Measuring growth is the thing that put it in my mind. But what about the other elements - nutrition / value of the grass, soil sampling, return of fertilisers into actual grass?

Maybe this is already done, or maybe there isn't that much to it and I am only showing my ignorance... :P

Just what entered my head after reading the grass measuring bit that's all...

Your right, twas a lazy post in fariness... but I'd never have found out about this grass measuring lark if I hadnt posted it

Where do i sign up?

Toplink

Timmaay wrote: »

Why stick to sucklers, why not drystock?

Good point. I have no interest in perusing the current career beyond the next 5 years. Its getting more cut throat year upon year and too much travelling involved also... I want out once the home farm becomes available. So switching to drystock would cut the profits in my opinion. I know a lot of lads are giving out lumps about suckler farming but I prepare the accounts with my parents and I there is still money being made in there.

Then again in 5 years time it could be a completely different story.

Username John

I don't know where you are based, or what it is you really do - but is there anything related to your current job that you could change to?

People will pay the most for experience, so if you could use the experience you have albeit doing something slightly different, it might be the best option.

Also - when did you last change jobs? Would this help do you think?

onyerbikepat

Any job where you are sitting down in front of a computer all day.:D
Great to get out in the evenings then and do a bit of manual work.

Just in relation to your own job. I think most people get a bit fed up with their job after a few years or so. Kind of a seven year itch, if you like. The thing really is to stick it out for a while, maybe change company. You'll find that you get a new zest for it again. I know I did.

Username John

onyerbikepat wrote: »

Any job where you are sitting down in front of a computer all day.:D
Great to get out in the evenings then and do a bit of manual work.

Just in relation to your own job. I think most people get a bit fed up with their job after a few years or so. Kind of a seven year itch, if you like. The thing really is to stick it out for a while, maybe change company. You'll find that you get a new zest for it again. I know I did.

+1

frazzledhome

blue5000 wrote: »

How about milking cows for someone else? I hear a few noobies are pissed off already:(

Really, already that was quick

frazzledhome

This has potential to be a really interesting thread. I love guys who've been in the corporate world considering farming, good on ya. We've a guy in our DG who left a very high paid high level job to dairy farm full time. He is by far the most profitable in the group. His discipline is almost monastic.

What are your skills that you'd like to use most? I'd start there I think.

Toplink

frazzledhome wrote: »

This has potential to be a really interesting thread. I love guys who've been in the corporate world considering farming, good on ya. We've a guy in our DG who left a very high paid high level job to dairy farm full time. He is by far the most profitable in the group. His discipline is almost monastic.

What are your skills that you'd like to use most? I'd start there I think.

Working in the corporate sector certainly does give you great discipline. There is zero waste in these places, everything gets measures and deadlines have to get met and if their extended your losing money. You think you have a good work ethic coming from a farming background but you meet some animals especially in the US who do 70/80 hour weeks, every week. Crazy stuff.

Projects that get run in the local office can be quite interesting however when they invested in cheap labour in some of the developing eastern nations it got soul destroying eventually. Maybe a change of scenery would help but its only really delaying the inevitable.

Reckon running your own online business is the only answer to the flexibility of part time farming.

I have 5 years to get this right

whelan2

Username John wrote: »

I think we are all a bit guilty of this in a way Toplink...

I dunno if asking us lot for suggestions to replace "A career which I am not overly excited about anyway" is the right way to go

I guess the question is, what are you excited about?

But, to provide something useful I was surprised to hear that people pay other people to grass measure - it makes perfect sense to do so, I just never thought about it before I guess.

It got me thinking, is there such a thing as a grass specialist? If so - how does one go about becoming one?

Measuring growth is the thing that put it in my mind. But what about the other elements - nutrition / value of the grass, soil sampling, return of fertilisers into actual grass?

Maybe this is already done, or maybe there isn't that much to it and I am only showing my ignorance... :P

Just what entered my head after reading the grass measuring bit that's all...

the guy doing mine speciallised in grass in ucd when doing ag science, he also offered soil sampling, grass testing and a few other farm management packages, i was just really interested in the grass end of it

Timmaay

onyerbikepat wrote: »

Any job where you are sitting down in front of a computer all day.:D
Great to get out in the evenings then and do a bit of manual work.

Just in relation to your own job. I think most people get a bit fed up with their job after a few years or so. Kind of a seven year itch, if you like. The thing really is to stick it out for a while, maybe change company. You'll find that you get a new zest for it again. I know I did.

7yrs, hmmm more like 4 years before I jump ship ha. Hmmm coming to think of that I'm close on 4 years farming ha... I suppose I'll give here another 2 or so ha, full time Milker/labourer then possibly.

Farmer Pudsey

A lot depends on what level of income you expect from this job OP. If 4-600/week is adequate there are plenty of opportunities, like a postman or general maintenance person. Salesmen are also a good choice as often they have the flexibility of starting late or early. However if you are looking at a job with a serious income 40K+ then you are looking at multinational's, Banking/insurance and public service jobs unless you start your own business.

For ever suckler cow you should be able to run 2 drystock so while margin may be lower overall profitability may be higher. Add to that drystock need less watching and they are more feasible if you have goodish land and work.

yellow50HX

Always fancied being a "gentleman farmer" myself but I don't think tweed is a great look on me:D:D

Username John

whelan2 wrote: »

the guy doing mine speciallised in grass in ucd when doing ag science, he also offered soil sampling, grass testing and a few other farm management packages, i was just really interested in the grass end of it

Well, I guess know how / where to learn the theory now
And that's what I was thinking about (the soil sampling, grass testing side of things)

C0N0R

Username John wrote: »

Well, I guess know how / where to learn the theory now
And that's what I was thinking about (the soil sampling, grass testing side of things)

To be fair any monkey can take a soil sample, start there!

Reggie.

Join the army

Miname

As pudsey said it depends on what you want to earn. It's very hard to drop a decent paying job. Farming will soak up money like nothing else out there and lads that are full time especially at beef don't get that many luxuries.maybe try and do all the work that needs doing now while you have your existing job to help finance the farm and maybe look to have it set up as well as possible when you do get the chance to farm full time. I think it's a fair undertaking to retrain now at your age then accept low wages for a good few years and maybe still not like it.im self employed with a couple of lads and while it's great being able to skip off for a few hours for the mart or testing or such I often envy the lads with a cheque in the bank every week while I'm out at night knocking on doors begging for money off lads you know have no intention of paying.

Dawggone

Toplink wrote: »

Bit of an off the wall topic for ye.

I am in my mid 30s with a wife and a few kids. I have a good job in the financial services industry but it consumes 50 hours plus a week. My parents are still young and healthy thankfully so I wont be taking over the farm for anther 5 years or so. My wife has a steady civil servant role albeit a low paying one.

I will be operating as a low percentage partner over the next few years and availing of top ups etc. Looking down the line when I do take over I know financially that full time suckler farming wont pay all the bills so I will have to back it up from somewhere. I also realize that if I want to continue calving down 40 cows plus a year it isnt feasible in my current career. A career which I am not overly excited about anyway and it I get the next 5 years out of it I reckon i'll be happy.

So I have 5 years to plan ahead. I want to farm and ideally stick to sucklers. What sort of a job or business would suit a partime suckler farmer?

A mate of mine does a few BER assessments whilst farming away but the wifes people have plenty of cash so there is no mortgage on that house

Teaching is the obvious one I suppose but not sure i'll go that route at this stage.

Are you talking 10's or 100's of acres?
What quality of land?

Username John

C0N0R wrote: »

To be fair any monkey can take a soil sample, start there!

Twas more the science / theory behind it, how what's in the ground relates to grass grown, relationships between the elements. That kinda thing...

it's something I'd like to know more about, but 'twas more a suggestion for the OP. It might not be a job at all, or it be something, was just a suggestion is all...

Farmer Pudsey

C0N0R wrote: »

To be fair any monkey can take a soil sample, start there!

Not really taking soil samples is an art its self especially if you are heavily stocked. No point in sticking the sampler in every dung pad

Toplink

Dawggone wrote: »

Are you talking 10's or 100's of acres?
What quality of land?

150
Light enough limestome land.

Dawggone

Toplink wrote: »

150
Light enough limestome land.

That's a damn good start.
Where do yo you see yourself ending up?
I started up with a helluva lot less.



It's NOT farming simulator. You do want to run a successful business? (coming from fin servs I'm presuming this).

Have you a finite goal?

queueeye

What about auctioneering? Not a huge leap for someone in the financial services sector and can be run from home office.

jimmy G M

How about doing accountancy / book keeping for some farmers / local businesses, a la lakill. Maybe throw in some health & safety consultancy to run along side it? Gonna be a growth area. What are your existing qualifications?

Toplink

Dawggone wrote: »

Have you a finite goal?

Drive around in a 4x4, with a copy of the racing post beside me and a cup of costa coffee on the dash...


1. Sort out grass management. There is no paddock system as such at present and this needs investment... water, fencing etc.

2. Reduce calving intervals.

3. We are going to go for the new suckler scheme so tied in until 2019 or so. Will probably use Tams2 to build extra capacity. I'll qualify for 60% funding.

4. Maximise every grant possible. Its a lot easier than trying to make money out of cattle.

5. Review the suckler game in 2019.

Suckler

Toplink wrote: »

Working in the corporate sector certainly does give you great discipline. There is zero waste in these places, everything gets measures and deadlines have to get met and if their extended your losing money. You think you have a good work ethic coming from a farming background but you meet some animals especially in the US who do 70/80 hour weeks, every week. Crazy stuff.

Time keeping and billing is the main driver now - every six minute block in the day has to be registered and billed accordingly to know exactly where time and money is being spent. You can't just log blocks of the same thing to account for a whole hour either.

Toplink

Suckler wrote: »

Time keeping and billing is the main driver now - every six minute block in the day has to be registered and billed accordingly to know exactly where time and money is being spent. You can't just log blocks of the same thing to account for a whole hour either.

Its excessive alright. The time lost updating these tools that capture time spent is never spoken about.

JohnBoy

Suckler wrote: »

Time keeping and billing is the main driver now - every six minute block in the day has to be registered and billed accordingly to know exactly where time and money is being spent. You can't just log blocks of the same thing to account for a whole hour either.

Christ.

6 minutes??????


I refuse to acknowledge the half hour option in our timesheet system.



in relation to the original post, the ideal is something 9-5 with some sort of flexi-time type options.

if going self employed then the accountancy one is not a bad choice, I've no idea how much it costs to qualify (assuming you're not already) but combine it with some further education in the ag sector and you could have a nice part time job.

Three men I know of with probably 3/4 time jobs that suit the farming very well are reps or agents for companies. one sells feed, one inputs and one buys cattle for a factory.

None are jobs that "have" to be full weeks or office hours as a lot of the time the people they need to call to are farmers who dont want to see them during the day.

BrianBoru00

First post in F&F. Stands out that you should apply for one of those Public Service jobs now that they are rehiring. You could afford to be choosy regarding the "where" if you have 5 years to get out. clock in clock out, flexi time, permanent and pensionable. . .
I know umpteen people who to realistically are farmers who go to the office for 8 hours monday to friday.
Low enough stress - ideal for farming I would have thought.

No major money starting prob low 30s given your experience and I assume degree.

tabby aspreme

You could live the dream to the max, buy a few shiny John Deeres and do some hire work , the six minute time sheets would work a treat

_Brian

BrianBoru00 wrote: »

First post in F&F. Stands out that you should apply for one of those Public Service jobs now that they are rehiring. You could afford to be choosy regarding the "where" if you have 5 years to get out. clock in clock out, flexi time, permanent and pensionable. . .
I know umpteen people who to realistically are farmers who go to the office for 8 hours monday to friday.
Low enough stress - ideal for farming I would have thought.

No major money starting prob low 30s given your experience and I assume degree.

Hi, do you have a link to these public service jobs ??

BrianBoru00

Advertised on publicjobs.ie. at the time - there had been none for a few years but a new recruitment process started towards the end of last year so it will prob be repeated in the next year or so.
There are also more specialised roles advertised there (i.e. for higher officers etc,.) - it basically covers the majority of publicly funded jobs

imitation

To me it sounds like a part time job in a mnc would be ideal. They are really rare beasts though, and the only people I know were in the company for a good while and managed to wrangle a deal when it was clear they were good. Hard to setup but worth it.

You could try the internet, but to be frank unless your lucky and good you wont make much money, and it could wind up being more hours than the farm !

_Brian

I worked in MNC for long time. They're good ok, but not so flexible for the likes of cows calving etc.

queueeye

Toplink wrote: »

Bit of an off the wall topic for ye.

I am in my mid 30s with a wife and a few kids. I have a good job in the financial services industry but it consumes 50 hours plus a week. My parents are still young and healthy thankfully so I wont be taking over the farm for anther 5 years or so. My wife has a steady civil servant role albeit a low paying one.

I will be operating as a low percentage partner over the next few years and availing of top ups etc. Looking down the line when I do take over I know financially that full time suckler farming wont pay all the bills so I will have to back it up from somewhere. I also realize that if I want to continue calving down 40 cows plus a year it isnt feasible in my current career. A career which I am not overly excited about anyway and it I get the next 5 years out of it I reckon i'll be happy.

So I have 5 years to plan ahead. I want to farm and ideally stick to sucklers. What sort of a job or business would suit a partime suckler farmer?

A mate of mine does a few BER assessments whilst farming away but the wifes people have plenty of cash so there is no mortgage on that house

Teaching is the obvious one I suppose but not sure i'll go that route at this stage.

One year on, have you made any decisions?

tractorporn

queueeye wrote:

One year on, have you made any decisions?

+1 very interested to hear what way you've decided go. I'm in a partnership with Dad from last year and would be in a similar senario.

I work with a farming organisation in a split role between office and out on the road and unlike the op I love my job. However I can't see how we will be able to stay calving and lambing whilst I'm working 40-50 hrs/week. I'm veering towards drystock with possibly dairy beef calves and store lambs.

You will need a seriously flexible job to be able to calve cows. If something happens when your at work you'll be seriously pissed off. And the difference in margin between drystock and sucklers will be very very small if you loose 2 or calves.

mahoney_j

Id recommend a wife with a teachers job,civil servant or govt job ,what's known around here as a laying hen!!!!!!

Timmaay

mahoney_j wrote: »

Id recommend a wife with a teachers job,civil servant or govt job ,what's known around here as a laying hen!!!!!!

If she's a recently qualified teacher then she unfortunately certainly won't be a laying hen for a good few years, any friends of mine in their 20s and teaching have found it very hard, jumping between voluntary and substitute work for months on end, very poor pay and not really going anywhere yet.

Grueller

Timmaay wrote: »

If she's a recently qualified teacher then she unfortunately certainly won't be a laying hen for a good few years, any friends of mine in their 20s and teaching have found it very hard, jumping between voluntary and substitute work for months on end, very poor pay and not really going anywhere yet.

Jaysus Timmaay, do you not know that all public servants and especially the teachers have it handy and are way overpaid? Any other suggestions and you could be hunted out of here with a pitchfork.

20silkcut

Dry stock with a 40 hour week job is difficult enough especially during the winter months you need good lights in the yard and on your tractor and I have neither. I have a 50 minute commute as well so for three months I farm in the dark. Help wise I'm on my own my father passed away 5 years ago. No brothers or family help. Can get minimal help from neighbours but they are all dairy men who are flat out themselves.
The co-op is closed when your off work a serious pain in the ass.
Slurry, topping, rolling, or any intensive non routine work you can forget about it. All contracted in. Fertiliser spreading can be squeezed in the evenings. Have to book holidays for silage.
Sick animals can really throw things.
Nothing worse than having to drive off to work and leave a sick animal behind hoping the vet can sort it in your absence.
Without serious help I can't see how a suckler or dairy farmer could have an off farm job.

J.O. Farmer

Grueller wrote: »

Jaysus Timmaay, do you not know that all public servants and especially the teachers have it handy and are way overpaid? Any other suggestions and you could be hunted out of here with a pitchfork.

Some teachers are. I'm thinking particularly those who spend decades in Leinster house while still having a teaching job to go back to if they get sacked at election time.
You want to marry one of those.

Miname

20silkcut wrote: »

Dry stock with a 40 hour week job is difficult enough especially during the winter months you need good lights in the yard and on your tractor and I have neither. I have a 50 minute commute as well so for three months I farm in the dark. Help wise I'm on my own my father passed away 5 years ago. No brothers or family help. Can get minimal help from neighbours but they are all dairy men who are flat out themselves.
The co-op is closed when your off work a serious pain in the ass.
Slurry, topping, rolling, or any intensive non routine work you can forget about it. All contracted in. Fertiliser spreading can be squeezed in the evenings. Have to book holidays for silage.
Sick animals can really throw things.
Nothing worse than having to drive off to work and leave a sick animal behind hoping the vet can sort it in your absence.
Without serious help I can't see how a suckler or dairy farmer could have an off farm job.

I'm managing it. I've the old man that throws an eye on them and am self employed so do have the advantage of being able to farm the odd day but I will admit it is fairly taxing. I've no work life balance at the moment but another week or two and i will be back to an hour a day farming and some Saturday's. I think organisation is key and an extremely tight calving period is essential. But for now I can only piddle with the Mickey I've got.

Username John

J.O. Farmer wrote: »

Some teachers are. I'm thinking particularly those who spend decades in Leinster house while still having a teaching job to go back to if they get sacked at election time.
You want to marry one of those.

Jaysus, that's some advice...

Which one would you chose to be married to yourself J.O?

And don't mind this laying hen muck - if you want to do fcuk all and get paid to do it, go on the dole. You don't need to get married at all...

ganmo

20silkcut wrote: »

Dry stock with a 40 hour week job is difficult enough especially during the winter months you need good lights in the yard and on your tractor and I have neither. I have a 50 minute commute as well so for three months I farm in the dark. Help wise I'm on my own my father passed away 5 years ago. No brothers or family help. Can get minimal help from neighbours but they are all dairy men who are flat out themselves.
The co-op is closed when your off work a serious pain in the ass.
Slurry, topping, rolling, or any intensive non routine work you can forget about it. All contracted in. Fertiliser spreading can be squeezed in the evenings. Have to book holidays for silage.
Sick animals can really throw things.
Nothing worse than having to drive off to work and leave a sick animal behind hoping the vet can sort it in your absence.
Without serious help I can't see how a suckler or dairy farmer could have an off farm job.

I was thinking about that yday while digging in trees for glas.
When getting the trees mam had to drive to get the trees, need penicillin for lambing so dad will have to go get that midweek. There will be no way that I'd be able to do that workin. But our supplier will deliver at the weekends or early morn.

patsy_mccabe

I'm in the unusual position that I can work from home anytime I like. I prefer to go into the office though as the internet connection is much faster. That flexibility is great and I don't abuse it. I know a good few people that can work from home so it does make part time farming that bit easier. It can be draining at this time of year with cows calving at all hours.

Toplink

OK... 1 year later.

So I figured the only way to keep suckler farming is to have a job that requires max 20 hours a week. So I was humming and hawing for a while but in the end I went with an online retail venture... Very small to start. Initial product offering only became available this month, delayed as baby 3 arrived recently so i was time poor.

I've sank a small investment into this and we'll see where it goes but it's definitely a business that can scale easily without excessive hours.

Oh, I have a laying hen which helps too :-)

Lady lou

Toplink wrote: »

OK... 1 year later.

So I figured the only way to keep suckler farming is to have a job that requires max 20 hours a week. So I was humming and hawing for a while but in the end I went with an online retail venture... Very small to start. Initial product offering only became available this month, delayed as baby 3 arrived recently so i was time poor.

I've sank a small investment into this and we'll see where it goes but it's definitely a business that can scale easily without excessive hours.

Oh, I have a laying hen which helps too :-)

Want to share what product/products you are offering