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Kids in commercial vehicles

  • 17-05-2015 08:34PM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 722 ✭✭✭


    Kids in front of commercial vehicle, can u get points?

    What's the law on this?


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,069 ✭✭✭✭CiniO


    P_Cash wrote: »
    Kids in front of commercial vehicle, can u get points?

    What's the law on this?

    There's no laws in Ireland prohibiting kids or infants to travel in front seats of any vehicle...

    All you need to do is to ensure they are strapped in appropriate child seat.
    And in case of rear facing child seats, that airbag is not active.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,930 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    CiniO wrote: »
    There's no laws in Ireland prohibiting kids or infants to travel in front seats of any vehicle...

    All you need to do is to ensure they are strapped in appropriate child seat.
    And in case of rear facing child seats, that airbag is not active.

    +1

    You can leave the rotunda hospital tomorrow with your new born and put them straight into the front seat of a transit if you want. As long as they are in the appropriate seat for the weight/age, and the airbag is switched off.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,477 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody


    CiniO wrote: »
    There's no laws in Ireland prohibiting kids or infants to travel in front seats of any vehicle...

    All you need to do is to ensure they are strapped in appropriate child seat.
    And in case of rear facing child seats, that airbag is not active.
    Except commercial vehicles are to only be used for that; the business so unless the OP works at a creche chances are it's quite relevant...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,915 ✭✭✭✭Dtp1979


    kceire wrote: »
    +1

    You can leave the rotunda hospital tomorrow with your new born and put them straight into the front seat of a transit if you want. As long as they are in the appropriate seat for the weight/age, and the airbag is switched off.

    Are you sure? I thought a while back guards were warning us that's it's not allowed? I bring my old child in my van but I'm usually weary of it. Is there any issue with insurance?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,069 ✭✭✭✭CiniO


    kceire wrote: »
    +1

    You can leave the rotunda hospital tomorrow with your new born and put them straight into the front seat of a transit if you want. As long as they are in the appropriate seat for the weight/age, and the airbag is switched off.

    Airbag only needs to be switched off for rear facing seats, which generally are only seats for small children up to 9kg and about 12 months of age.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,400 ✭✭✭✭r3nu4l


    I was going to ask about this actually as in the last week I've been dropping my daughter off at her school (very rural) and noticed that some of the Mummy's are using what are quite clearly commercial vehicles.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,915 ✭✭✭✭Dtp1979


    r3nu4l wrote: »
    I was going to ask about this actually as in the last week I've been dropping my daughter off at her school (very rural) and noticed that some of the Mummy's are using what are quite clearly commercial vehicles.

    And still can't reverse them :pac:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,042 ✭✭✭Bpmull


    r3nu4l wrote: »
    I was going to ask about this actually as in the last week I've been dropping my daughter off at her school (very rural) and noticed that some of the Mummy's are using what are quite clearly commercial vehicles.

    Well they are technically breaking the law but realistically how many people have actually been done for this offence Id say not many most likely the worst that would happen is you get told off you'd want to get a very bad gaurd on a very bad day for him to fine/ summons you for it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 640 ✭✭✭Tony Beetroot


    Bpmull wrote: »
    Well they are technically breaking the law but realistically how many people have actually been done for this offence Id say not many most likely the worst that would happen is you get told off you'd want to get a very bad gaurd on a very bad day for him to fine/ summons you for it.

    What law are they breaking?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,042 ✭✭✭Bpmull


    What law are they breaking?

    A commercially taxed vehicle must only be used for commerical use not social domestic pleasure. If it is taxed privately it can be used as a car for any purpose but I mean finding a commercial vehicle taxed privately is a rare thing. Anyway as I said the chance of being caught are tiny but still possible.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,818 ✭✭✭jlm29


    All the rules and regs are on the rsa website. I read somewhere recently that if found transporting an infant in a rear facing seat where there is an active airbag, points and fine can be given.
    Otherwise, once in the right seat, the front seat is grand


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,069 ✭✭✭✭CiniO


    Bpmull wrote: »
    A commercially taxed vehicle must only be used for commerical use not social domestic pleasure.

    That's not an answer to question which was asked - "What law are they breaking?"

    I claim there is no law stating what you said above. If you believe otherwise, I'd be delighted to see it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 640 ✭✭✭Tony Beetroot


    Bpmull wrote: »
    A commercially taxed vehicle must only be used for commerical use not social domestic pleasure. If it is taxed privately it can be used as a car for any purpose but I mean finding a commercial vehicle taxed privately is a rare thing. Anyway as I said the chance of being caught are tiny but still possible.

    That is a politicians answer.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,042 ✭✭✭Bpmull


    CiniO wrote: »
    That's not an answer to question which was asked - "What law are they breaking?"

    I claim there is no law stating what you said above. If you believe otherwise, I'd be delighted to see it.
    That is a politicians answer.

    I know people have argued that there are loopholes but ultimately by filling out this form which you have to to tax a vehicle commercially if you then use it for SDP you have made a false declaration to a garda which is illegal. Anyway I'm not trying to argue for or against it.

    http://www.environ.ie/en/LocalGovernment/MotorTax/PublicationsDocuments/FileDownLoad,23874,en.pdf

    There is also a law which states that vehicles should always be taxed at the highest applicable rate so a van used for commercial and private use if the private tax is higher that's whats used.


  • Posts: 24,713 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Nobody really cares about using commercial vehicles for private use. Out my way nearly every house has a commercial of some form or other and private use is an everyday thing for them all with loads only ever being used privately and for commuting. Plenty of crew cabs being used for family cars etc also, you would be looked at like you had 10 heads of you taxed a commercial vehicle privately (and thus spend way more on tax).


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 640 ✭✭✭Tony Beetroot


    Bpmull wrote: »
    There is also a law which states that vehicles should always be taxed at the highest applicable rate so a van used for commercial and private use if the private tax is higher that's whats used.

    No there isn't.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,069 ✭✭✭✭CiniO


    Bpmull wrote: »
    I know people have argued that there are loopholes but ultimately by filling out this form which you have to to tax a vehicle commercially if you then use it for SDP you have made a false declaration to a garda which is illegal. Anyway I'm not trying to argue for or against it.

    http://www.environ.ie/en/LocalGovernment/MotorTax/PublicationsDocuments/FileDownLoad,23874,en.pdf
    Indeed, if someone signed such declaration, then usage of vehicle for private purposes is out of the question.
    Thing is - what is the base for motortax offices to request customers to sign such declaration? As there surely isn't any law covering that.
    There is also a law which states that vehicles should always be taxed at the highest applicable rate so a van used for commercial and private use if the private tax is higher that's whats used.

    Another interesting thing - could we have a link please?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,777 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    Bpmull wrote: »
    I know people have argued that there are loopholes but ultimately by filling out this form which you have to to tax a vehicle commercially if you then use it for SDP you have made a false declaration to a garda which is illegal. Anyway I'm not trying to argue for or against it.

    http://www.environ.ie/en/LocalGovernment/MotorTax/PublicationsDocuments/FileDownLoad,23874,en.pdf

    There is also a law which states that vehicles should always be taxed at the highest applicable rate so a van used for commercial and private use if the private tax is higher that's whats used.

    I'd like to see the law compelling you to make that declaration.

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,930 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    CiniO wrote: »
    Airbag only needs to be switched off for rear facing seats, which generally are only seats for small children up to 9kg and about 12 months of age.

    Hence the link to the Rotunda Hospital and new borns ;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 640 ✭✭✭Tony Beetroot


    Pity there isn't a law to stop insubstancial laws being talked about.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,251 ✭✭✭pippip


    galwaytt wrote: »
    I'd like to see the law compelling you to make that declaration.
    CiniO wrote: »
    Indeed, if someone signed such declaration, then usage of vehicle for private purposes is out of the question.
    Thing is - what is the base for motortax offices to request customers to sign such declaration? As there surely isn't any law covering that.

    You have to sign it in order to commercial tax a vehicle for the first time. Its one of the requirements from the Motor Tax office.

    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel_and_recreation/motoring_1/motor_tax_and_insurance/motor_tax_rates.html


    IF you did happen to get caught you also could have revenue after you for BIK, its not much you'd owe them but possibly more hassle.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,620 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    Well, what's the position on being on the way to a job and dropping the kids off at school?
    Surely that would come more under the employer's policy on carrying passengers rather than commercial vs private usage as defined by the state?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,251 ✭✭✭pippip


    Well, what's the position on being on the way to a job and dropping the kids off at school?
    Surely that would come more under the employer's policy on carrying passengers rather than commercial vs private usage as defined by the state?

    This is where it is a stupid rule but your still using it for personal use. I think I read somewhere that commuting to and from work is actually classed as personal use, doesn't fall under commercial tax use.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 640 ✭✭✭Tony Beetroot


    pippip wrote: »
    This is where it is a stupid rule but your still using it for personal use. I think I read somewhere that commuting to and from work is actually classed as personal use, doesn't fall under commercial tax use.

    Isn't going to lunch during the day personal use also.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,251 ✭✭✭pippip


    Isn't going to lunch during the day personal use also.

    Possibly, haven't seen anything mentioning lunch journeys?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 132 ✭✭MikeCairo78


    Most commercial vehicles, in the main vans etc, can be used for Social Domestic &Pleasure purposes - it will not the same on the certificate.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,620 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    pippip wrote: »
    This is where it is a stupid rule but your still using it for personal use. I think I read somewhere that commuting to and from work is actually classed as personal use, doesn't fall under commercial tax use.
    Isn't going to lunch during the day personal use also.

    Awesome. Does that mean if a Gard is having a bad day, he could potentially nab you for driving to your first job or outside the Spar or Centra when you're getting a sandwich?
    That's if there are any laws preventing this, rather than company policy on carrying passengers and personal use.
    When I had a work van, I simply didn't care, went to the beach, shopping on the weekends, up to Belfast when the Ikea opened there, going out and so on and so forth. No Gard ever said a thing, I guess because it's so hard to nail down what is allowed and what's not? Would be typical Ireland, don't bother your hole coming up with useable laws, just quickly whip 'em up and go to the pub. Now it's the problem of the Gardai and the courts.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,251 ✭✭✭pippip


    Most commercial vehicles, in the main vans etc, can be used for Social Domestic &Pleasure purposes - it will not the same on the certificate.

    But thats the insurance side, were talking tax. Someone on here said SD&P has always been on their commercial insurance.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 640 ✭✭✭Tony Beetroot


    Awesome. Does that mean if a Gard is having a bad day, he could potentially nab you for driving to your first job or outside the Spar or Centra when you're getting a sandwich?

    He can act the big man and nab you but for what is the question?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,251 ✭✭✭pippip


    Awesome. Does that mean if a Gard is having a bad day, he could potentially nab you for driving to your first job or outside the Spar or Centra when you're getting a sandwich?

    In theory yes they can, thats the stupid thing about it.

    In reality you are never going to be done for it unless you have really pissed them off and they add it in while you are being done for something else like speeding or a crash.

    I'm not defending the law in anyway, its ridiculous, I just find it annoying how many of these threads have appeared recently relating to commercial tax where people are stating there is NO law you are breaking and its perfectly legal.


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