What can be done to ease the congestion in Dublin rush-hour traffic ?

JumpShivers

What can be done to ease the congestion in Dublin rush-hour traffic without imposing restrictions on traffic entering city limits or imposing more tolls?

My idea is to gradually start replacing ALL traffic lights in city limits with mini roundabouts, this will greatly decrease lag time and people taking ages to move off at a green. (perhaps impose dynamic lights at the new mini roundabout junctions so that they can be activated if necessary).

Where traffic lifts are necessitated, there should be left turn on a red, (much like right turn on a red abroad).

Replace all red / green man pedestrian crossings with flashing beacons, no more prolonged unnecessary stopping.

Any vehicle that is filled to its maximum legal capacity should be allowed in bus lane.

Allow motorcycles / mopeds to use bus lanes.

Mandate that cyclists use cycle lanes where they are available and in in good condition.

what do you think?

strandroad

Build underground rail transport. Everything else is deck chairs on the Titanic.

Atlantic Dawn

Build another orbital road along Dublin Bay.
Have a fixed daily charge of say €5 to travel on all Dublin Bus, LUAS and DART services.
Allow cars with 4 people in them to use the bus lanes.

Captain Chaos

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Have a fixed daily charge of say €5 to travel on all Dublin Bus, LUAS and DART services.
.

That exists already, it's called Leap card. Unlimited daily cap at €10 and an unlimited weekly cap at €40 you can travel as much as you like.

Most of the problem I see are drives using their phones at lights and taking far to long to start off when lights change. Correct usage of yellow boxes, I see this every day on the Luas with traffic blocking trams because they enter yellow boxes when they know they can't clear them.

pablo128

JumpShivers wrote: »

What can be done to ease the congestion in Dublin rush-hour traffic without imposing restrictions on traffic entering city limits or imposing more tolls?

My idea is to gradually start replacing ALL traffic lights in city limits with mini roundabouts, this will greatly decrease lag time and people taking ages to move off at a green. (perhaps impose dynamic lights at the new mini roundabout junctions so that they can be activated if necessary).

Where traffic lifts are necessitated, there should be left turn on a red, (much like right turn on a red abroad).

Replace all red / green man pedestrian crossings with flashing beacons, no more prolonged unnecessary stopping.

Any vehicle that is filled to its maximum legal capacity should be allowed in bus lane.

Allow motorcycles / mopeds to use bus lanes.

Mandate that cyclists use cycle lanes where they are available and in in good condition.

what do you think?

Roundabouts are a disaster for many people. They simply get confused and afraid to move off.

Actually you proposed to replace traffic lights with mini roundabouts...... with traffic lights. :pac:

A heap of Gardai out on the roads watching driver behaviour would have a positive effect.

Gmaximum

Ban jcbs bin collections and tractors from operating on the roads between 7 and 9

JumpShivers

pablo128 wrote: »

Actually you proposed to replace traffic lights with mini roundabouts...... with traffic lights. :pac:

I said dynamic traffic lights that can be activated if necessary.

pablo128

JumpShivers wrote: »

I said dynamic traffic lights that can be activated if necessary.

Sure just put them in place of the current traffic lights. No need for the roundabouts then.

markpb

Congestion can't really be solved. You can facilitate more trips in the same space by encouraging walking and cycling or improving public transport but the road space they free up will be taken by others.

Minor tinkering like changing junctions or allowing HOVs into bus lanes will provide very little benefit (and could even be negative).

There's some evidence that says if you want to reduce vehicular demand, you should reduce supply. Los Angeles county closed a major freeway years ago (can't remember why, probably earthquake repairs) and although chaos was predicted, overall vehicular traffic in the region reduced. This has been seen repeatedly but is so counterintuitive that people don't believe it and it's seen as heresy.

Edit: additionally, a lot of what the OP is proposing is wrong. Roundabouts are terrible at traffic management - they are excessively biased in favour of busy approaches. Mini roundabouts are worse. Letting HOVs into bus lanes requires a lot of enforcement to make sure it's not being abused and even then, drastically reduces the capacity of bus lanes. Zebra crossings only work on query roads, otherwise pedestrians end up being penalised. They're also very tough for disabled people to use.

Pegmatite

Honestly I don't know why there isnt a congestion charge for the city center. Maybe between the two canals. I see so many cars with only the driver in them.
I can't see any of the OP suggestions having any effect.

monument

Build a network of Dutch-quality cycle paths and lanes, fill in the gaps in bus lanes, more bus/access only streets, and build Dart Underground, a decent inner and outter park and ride system at public transport hubs, high-density bicycle parking at all train stations and key Luas stops manned for PT opening hours, secure parking at other Luas stops and bus stops, more surface Luas rather than BRT... Then stop stressing about cars moving slowly in a city.

Maybe I'm wrong but Dublin has far too high of level of traffic to look at traffic light removal on a large scale.

JumpShivers wrote: »

Mandate that cyclists use cycle lanes where they are available and in in good condition.

On a practical level, how would this help congestion?

Where is the issue of people not cycling in cycle lanes and holding others up?

ezra_pound

JumpShivers wrote: »

Mandate that cyclists use cycle lanes where they are available and in in good condition.

what do you think?

I think you need to start riding a bike a bit more often.

markpb

JumpShivers wrote: »

Mandate that cyclists use cycle lanes where they are available and in in good condition.

I missed this one. How do you think it would work? If there's congestion, a cyclist on the road is not going to make it worse. If there's no congestion, what would moving a cyclist achieve?

There's also the conflict about how you define a "good" cycle lane. Most cyclists would consider most cycle lanes to be poor. I doubt you'll get many local authority staff to agree since they'd be criticising their own work. You won't get many councillors to agree because they'd be admitting to their own failings.

Del2005

They should remove all the free parking that companies and our government provide to employees within the canals, a lot of these people could use public transport but the car and free parking is cheaper, so make public transport cheaper, this would also free up parking spaces for shoppers in the city centre. Only problem with this is that rush hour public transport is already at full capacity so adding more people won't be good.

No point in allowing motorbikes into bus lanes, which is already happening anyway, when there are very few legal places to park in the city centre.

James esq

The best thing for traffic is a good old recession. Banning deliveries and collections between 8 and 10 am would help ( especially Merrion Row). There is no need for all the schools in the state to open at 9. More companies using flexitime would help.

James esq

In the states cars with more than two occupants can use bus/car pool lanes.

markpb

James esq wrote: »

There is no need for all the schools in the state to open at 9.

I'm not sure how well this would work. Most people I know do a school run on their way to work. They might go slightly out of their way to get there and they might cause local congestion at the school itself but they're not making additional journeys because of it. If the school opened earlier, they'd still drive to the school and then drive to work. In between they'd either sit outside the school waiting (still causing local congestion), drive home and then to work (causing additional trips to be made) or drive somewhere for coffee or a paper (causing additional trips to be made).

If the school started after 9:30, I'm not sure what they'd do but it wouldn't involve less driving. For those with au pairs looking after younger children, it would probably involve both the parent and the au pair driving.

In neither case have you reduced the number of vehicles on the road at rush hour.

Zillah

- Ban private vehicles between the canals.
- Pedestrianise as many roads as feasible.
- Demolish hundreds of the manky old buildings along major roads and expand the roads with new infrastructure.
- Drastically increase funding for public transport.
- Massively expand the Luas to more parts of the city.

I know none of this will happen, but if we got some sort of insane dictator Taoiseach to force all of this to happen I really think we'd have a drastically improved city.

monument

James esq wrote: »

In the states cars with more than two occupants can use bus/car pool lanes.

Are there actually many examples of bus/car pool lanes off freeways?

Iwannahurl

JumpShivers wrote: »

What can be done to ease the congestion in Dublin rush-hour traffic without imposing restrictions on traffic.

That concept is essentially an oxymoron. It's like asking what can be done to tackle obesity without requiring overweight people to eat less and move more.

scouserstation

I feel the only thing that can save Dublins traffic problems now and into the future is a fully integrated commuter railway network.This will soon need expansion in both the city centre and the greater Dublin area.

First of all Dart underground needs to be built, the powers that be need to do whatever they can to get this project done as this will allow more trains and frequency.The EU have already stated they will help fund this project.

Several heavy rail "spurs" need to be constructed to take in areas of Dublin with high populations but poor transport options. For example an airport spur from the Drogheda line, a Blanchardstown spur from the Maynooth line and a Lucan spur from either the Maynooth or Hazelhatch line, these could all be done quite easily using wastelands or unused parklands.

all these lines need to be electrified to make an extensive Dart network which will all link together when dart underground is built.

All this along side an extensive Luas network and we should have a complete heavy/light rail transport network that will make getting around this city all the more easier and entice people out of their cars.

If this is not done within the next 10 - 15 years i think this city is going to suffer from major traffic problems.

dubscottie

monument wrote: »

Build a network of Dutch-quality cycle paths and lanes

And how do you propose to do that in say Dublin?

The Dutch have the space as the Luftwaffe/Wehrmacht, RAF, USAF etc blew the bollox out of the place in the mid 40's... Dublin does not.

Unless you are proposing to wipe half of Dublin off the map??

James esq

markpb wrote: »

I'm not sure how well this would work. Most people I know do a school run on their way to work. They might go slightly out of their way to get there and they might cause local congestion at the........la di da di da.....................
If the school started involve both the parent and the au pair driving.

In neither case have you reduced the number of vehicles on the road at rush hour.

I didn't suggest that varying the school opening hours would reduce the traffic, my thesis was that it would reduce the concentration of traffic at a certain time, a certain number of people would go into work earlier to facilitate the school drop and some would go in later to facilitate the school drop. I don't think many would do 2 journeys.

James esq

monument wrote: »

Are there actually many examples of bus/car pool lanes off freeways?

Look up "High-occupancy vehicle lane" on wiki and there are a about 3 pages of how this concept is applied in the USA and other countries around the world.

KingBrian2

Too many traffic lights in the city. Go couple of meters and it is red followed by red followed by red and the motorists take up most of the road. When the roads are clear the bus service works fine but once rush hour comes the place shuts down. Might as well sunbathe on the roof until the Traffic moves along.

Iwannahurl

dubscottie wrote: »

And how do you propose to do that in say Dublin?

The Dutch have the space as the Luftwaffe/Wehrmacht, RAF, USAF etc blew the bollox out of the place in the mid 40's... Dublin does not.

Unless you are proposing to wipe half of Dublin off the map??

In the 1950s and 1960s Fianna Fail inflicted far more deliberate damage on Dublin City than the Luftwaffe did in the 1940s by mistake. FF didn't stop there either.

If there's space for car parking then there is enough space to reallocate it to cycling. Very often it's not a question of lack of space but lack of political will. By way of an example that I am familiar with, here in Galway the Council is very fond of saying that there is "no room" for cycling provision in the city centre. Yet the same Council has created an extensive one-way system, with many Pay & Display parking areas on both sides of narrow streets. The same applies to pedestrian facilities: there is "no room" for wider footpaths, yet amazingly there is room for legal parking beside the footpaths and uncontrolled illegal parking on the footpaths.

KingBrian2

Zillah wrote: »

- Ban private vehicles between the canals.
- Pedestrianise as many roads as feasible.
- Demolish hundreds of the manky old buildings along major roads and expand the roads with new infrastructure.
- Drastically increase funding for public transport.
- Massively expand the Luas to more parts of the city.

I know none of this will happen, but if we got some sort of insane dictator Taoiseach to force all of this to happen I really think we'd have a drastically improved city.

Whoa! Hold on there chap the enabling act has not been passed yet.

monument

dubscottie wrote: »

And how do you propose to do that in say Dublin?

The Dutch have the space as the Luftwaffe/Wehrmacht, RAF, USAF etc blew the bollox out of the place in the mid 40's... Dublin does not.

Unless you are proposing to wipe half of Dublin off the map??

Err... the Dutch cities with the highest cycling modal share never suffered any notable bombing. Rotterdam which suffered bombing has a relatively low modal share of cycling compared to many Dutch cities, including Amsterdam.

Amsterdam has an extensive network of cycle paths and it's city and city centre's street network is generally just as constrained by width, if not more so, than Dublin's.

James esq wrote: »

Look up "High-occupancy vehicle lane" on wiki and there are a about 3 pages of how this concept is applied in the USA and other countries around the world.

It mainly seems to be a freeway thing in the US... which motorways around Dublin are you suggesting this be implemented on?

Iwannahurl

And what a waste of space those Dutch canals are!

Celly Smunt

Carpooling lanes would never work in dublin due to the lack of police enforcement, you'd just have every knob driving and clogging up bus lanes then which would make even more people less tempted to take the bus.

What i'd propose is a high speed line stretching from the airport to tallaght or further as parallel to m50 as possible with a split connection at palmerstown/clondalkin/blanch straight into the city centre.

This would relieve traffic on the m50 and traffic in the city centre.

The east is covered by the dart, but commencing the dart undergound project would sufficiently increase south bound demand.

Green line luas would fulfill south dublin and the red line west dublin. North Dublin has a fairly good bus infrastructure around drumcindra etc and blanch etc would be catered for by the new line.

KingBrian2

Iwannahurl wrote: »

And what a waste of space those Dutch canals are!

They are beautiful.

L1011

Increased service on all rail routes as all are overcrowded, a marketing campaign to follow and then a detailed traffic survey. I believe that Irish Rail capacity issues and Network Direct cuts have had a terrible impact on public transport usage. If it remains worse than cars it won't be used - and crammed to face-to-armpit levels or a bus an hour is worse than cars.

There should be no reason for a privately taxed vehicle to go in to the city regularly and if there is it needs to be investigated and dealt with.

Actual commercial traffic needs to be properly identified and not treated like commuters. Priority measures need to reflect this.

markpb

KingBrian2 wrote: »

They are beautiful.

Sarcasm detector needs new batteries.

MadDog76

I agree with the idea of mimicking the Dutch system, particularly the Red Light District and Hash Cafes ........ who would give a f*** about traffic congestion then!

SeanW

Iwannahurl wrote: »

That concept is essentially an oxymoron. It's like asking what can be done to tackle obesity without requiring overweight people to eat less and move more.

No, it's not. You are dead wrong on both counts.

Investment in public transport, such as the Metro North and Dart Underground, would give Dublin people real choice in transport. It would take cars (and buses) off the streets and give people fast, efficient alternatives that don't involve queuing in traffic and stopping every hundred metres for a red light.

This is where we should start. Find the money. Build the damn Metro and DU. Now. Then and only then look at how screwing motorists even more would help.

Obesity could also be partly resolved not by getting people to "eat less" but to "eat better" e.g. replace soft drinks and fatty foods with water or freshly made juices and less processed foods.

As usual, your posts are over-simplified, biased and counter-productive.

Sheldons Brain

Like all of these things a combination of things is needed, there is no silver bullet.
Restricting all day parking is one part of the solution. But there is also needs to be a commitment to providing some minimum level of public transport service, the current approach of cramming people into already full services/wait at bus stops while full buses pass by, is not acceptable. There needs to be some symmetry in the proposition, 1) we don't encourage you to drive into town 2) we will provide you with a reliable public transport service.

James esq

[/QUOTE]It mainly seems to be a freeway thing in the US... which motorways around Dublin are you suggesting this be implemented on?[/QUOTE]

I said nothing about the motorways around Dublin. I am only interested in the road from Rathfarnham to Westmorland Street and in particular allowing 2 or more people in a car to go in the bus lane just like Norway (except Rathfarnham is not in Norway, most people realise this and that some concepts can be adapted and adopted for some Irish situations)

trellheim

Ya have to look at both getting people out of cars AND improving public transport simultaneously. Suggesting anything else is silly. Waiting for one so the other can proceed isn't the smartest either.

We have 300 people in our office in D1 right beside a Luas stop. We have 2 onsite car parking spaces for customers. That's it - if you want to drive in - theres plenty of paid parking garages around.

What do you know ? Most people don't drive in. its amazing how people adapt.

timetogo

Reduce the M50 toll by 50c between 5am and 7am. Similar for 7pm - 9pm. Might move a few hundred cars our of rush hour and speed up peak hours by a bit.

_Kaiser_

trellheim wrote: »

We have 300 people in our office in D1 right beside a Luas stop. We have 2 onsite car parking spaces for customers. That's it - if you want to drive in - theres plenty of paid parking garages around.

What do you know ? Most people don't drive in. its amazing how people adapt.

I actually wouldn't take a job in the city centre that didn't have onsite (free) parking and flexitime.

I spent too many years standing waiting on buses and taking twice as long to get where I wanted to be, or stranded on a platform in Pearse for an hour because the DART I relied on to get me there for my connecting train to Coolmine hadn't shown/was delayed etc.

Add in the effects of the resurgence in property prices combined with a shortage of supply and rent hikes and I think many of your colleagues may be moving elsewhere as well if they haven't already bought in Dublin.

stehyl15

Ban those fúcking rickshaws and those mobile billboards a pointless waste of roadspace. Introduce bus lanes on any non motorway road that has bus usage. Ban private completely from the city centre or introduce congestion charges. Scrap the M50 toll I dont know any orbital motorway with a toll in Europe.

Calina

Fixing transport in Dublin means a lot of cultural changes for people living in and working in Dublin. It will also involve some pain.

My personal view is that some of the city will have to be levelled to facilitate a broader spectrum of non-road dependent transport be it trams or light rail or commuter heavy. And we will need to stop pretending that the Luas competes with the bus and the DART. Transport needs to be integrated across modes.

The stupidity in this country when the Luas went live first pretending that it was competing with and beating bus is part of the reason we have problems. Most people start with the premise that Dublin Bus is useless and everything else is a stick to beat it with.

In the meantime, I personally don't think the place has the guts to level too much of the existing stock, or for example, deal with the idea of having a central bus station used by all long haul bus companies instead of clogging up the streets with the private operators and having Bus Eireann use Bus Aras. Absolutely every other country I have lived in, the bus station was integrated for all bus companies providing public transport, publically owned or not.

The big, big problem with DUblin is journey time predictability and reliability. Arguably, the buses might be faster if there were fewer cars but actually, I don't think it's even that simple. Take a trek through Drumcondra in the morning and the buses get stuck behind each other at stops.

loyatemu

James esq wrote: »

There is no need for all the schools in the state to open at 9. More companies using flexitime would help.

Do they all start at 9? - my kids' school opens at 8.30, one of the other local primaries starts at 9.15 and the local secondary school starts at 8.15.

The problem with staggered openings though is that many parents have kids in more than one school.

Quickest way to reduce congestion? Encourage companies to offer flexitime and allow employees to work from home. Not every company or employee can do this but if the ones that could, did, it would dramatically reduce the numbers driving into the city each day.

Driving to the same building, at the same time, 5 days a week is a throwback to the 20th century - for many modern jobs it is not necessary.

KingBrian2

Calina wrote: »

Fixing transport in Dublin means a lot of cultural changes for people living in and working in Dublin. It will also involve some pain.

My personal view is that some of the city will have to be levelled to facilitate a broader spectrum of non-road dependent transport be it trams or light rail or commuter heavy. And we will need to stop pretending that the Luas competes with the bus and the DART. Transport needs to be integrated across modes.

The stupidity in this country when the Luas went live first pretending that it was competing with and beating bus is part of the reason we have problems. Most people start with the premise that Dublin Bus is useless and everything else is a stick to beat it with.

In the meantime, I personally don't think the place has the guts to level too much of the existing stock, or for example, deal with the idea of having a central bus station used by all long haul bus companies instead of clogging up the streets with the private operators and having Bus Eireann use Bus Aras. Absolutely every other country I have lived in, the bus station was integrated for all bus companies providing public transport, publically owned or not.

The big, big problem with DUblin is journey time predictability and reliability. Arguably, the buses might be faster if there were fewer cars but actually, I don't think it's even that simple. Take a trek through Drumcondra in the morning and the buses get stuck behind each other at stops.

Levelling the city you want to know the big disruptor to road use. Digging up the road. The place is constantly being dug up and buses have to go around or we see huge congestion.

monument

SeanW wrote: »

As usual, your posts are over-simplified, biased and counter-productive.

Keep it to the topic at hand -- I'm really not up for entertaining cross-boards / cross thread swipes at people.

- moderator

monument

Calina wrote: »

My personal view is that some of the city will have to be levelled to facilitate a broader spectrum of non-road dependent transport be it trams or light rail or commuter heavy.

What part of the city needs to be levelled and for what possible transport project?

I don't mind the idea of some demolition for progress, but I can't see any notable sections of the city needing to be leveled for any transport project. These days it would likely be cheaper to go underground before you start leveling large sections of any part of the city, besides maybe an industrial estate or two.

Talk of levelling any notable amount of area is premature when there's streets and roads with space which can be reconfigured and there's still space for railway and light rail lines to be built without much destruction.

tails_naf

A small change, would be to fix traffic lights in general. On way too many junctions the short time the light is green for only allows a few cars through. The 'reaction time' factor of drivers trying to find first gear makes lights wayyy less efficient with short green durations. One min in either direction would mean long times between changes, but a lot of flow.

This brings me to the second point, all lights learn which lane has the highest / lowest flow and adjusts duration to match.

Both are not difficult to do, and would enhance what we have without major infrastucture surgery.

Of course this would be something we could (should) have done now, while plannning for larger overhauls.

James esq

tails_naf wrote: »

all lights learn which lane has the highest / lowest flow and adjusts duration to match.

This is very interesting, please cite your source for this information.

Van.Bosch

James esq wrote: »

This is very interesting, please cite your source for this information.

I think he/she is saying they should do this, not they currently do.

pclive

Love these threads where car drivers try blame everything else apart from themselves for congestion

timetogo

pclive wrote: »

Love these threads where car drivers try blame everything else apart from themselves for congestion

Love these generalisations where people read the title of a thread and don't read the posts and then post something that's nothing to do with the thread in an attempt to be witty.