Contrails: What are they?

NI24

HI guys,
I'm wondering if anyone can give me a dumbed down version of the science behind contrails. The reason I ask is that for the last few years I've been noticing what I can only assume are contrails, however, they are quite bizarre in appearance. Firstly, they appear morning, noon, and night and every single day without question. Secondly, they streak across the sky from one horizon to the other, literally across the entire expanse of sky. And thirdly, they start off a certain size, and instead of dissipating, grow in width until the entire sky is covered in a white haze. I've also noticed that after a certain "blitz" of these trails, followed by this white haze, the temperature increases by at least 5-10 degrees Fahrenheit. I would also like to mention that I live in an area that sees very little air traffic and that I can never seem to locate a plane. Any ideas?

vicwatson

Water vapour condensed, the size and how long they last is to do with air pressure surrounding where they are created.

google -

Contrails are clouds formed when water vapor condenses and freezes around small particles (aerosols) that exist in aircraft exhaust. Some of that water vapor comes from the air around the plane; and, some is added by the exhaust of the aircraft. The exhaust of an aircraft contains both gas (vapor) and solid particles.

Buona Fortuna

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contrail

Is it to early for the popcorn ?

They don't happen EVERYDAY, somedays you look up and see high level traffic with no contrail and somedays you see aircraft with very short contrails and then most of the time as you describe with horizon to horizon contrails

Watch this short video, it's probably the best I have seen https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xl6iR7w7a_Q

FWVT

Ffs not more of this crap. What planet is the op living on?

Read this and stop posting rubbish.

Contrails are ice crystals formed when the upper atmosphere is moist enough (relative humidity above around 65%).

https://irishweatheronline.wordpress.com/2013/09/08/contrails-v-chemtrails-the-science-that-debunks-the-conspiracy/

Captain Chaos

Seriously how do people still not know about contrails and don't notice them. I was tought about them in school when I was about 5 back in the late 80s. I noticed them myself as a kid growing up as they are very easy to see yet I meet people who don't notice them until they are in their 20s. Seriously do people not look up every now and again or is everyone walking around with horse blinkers on. They are covered is kids school books since the 50s.

Timberrrrrrrr

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Seriously how do people still not know about contrails and don't notice them. I was tought about them in school when I was about 5 back in the late 80s. I noticed them myself as a kid growing up as they are very easy to see yet I meet people who don't notice them until they are in their 20s. Seriously do people not look up every now and again or is everyone walking around with horse blinkers on. They are covered is kids school books since the 50s.

Unfortunately for the last 15 years or so people have been walking with their heads down looking at phone screens.

Awaits the first post claiming they are chemtrails.

lord lucan

Any talk of chemtrails will be met with infractions so keep it on the topic of contrails only please.

NI24

vicwatson wrote: »

Water vapour condensed, the size and how long they last is to do with air pressure surrounding where they are created.

google -

Contrails are clouds formed when water vapor condenses and freezes around small particles (aerosols) that exist in aircraft exhaust. Some of that water vapor comes from the air around the plane; and, some is added by the exhaust of the aircraft. The exhaust of an aircraft contains both gas (vapor) and solid particles.

OK. Does the exhaust account for the white haze though? It covers the entire sky. And what about the temperature increase? Like I said, we get very little air traffic where I live. Not that I can spot actual aircraft, but I only have binoculars to look through and they're cheap.

Buona Fortuna wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contrail

I was hoping for more personal observations.

Deleted User wrote: »

Is it to early for the popcorn ?

They don't happen EVERYDAY, somedays you look up and see high level traffic with no contrail and somedays you see aircraft with very short contrails and then most of the time as you describe with horizon to horizon contrails

Watch this short video, it's probably the best I have seen https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xl6iR7w7a_Q

Says you. I know for a fact that they do because I've been documenting it.

FWVT wrote: »

Ffs not more of this crap. What planet is the op living on?

Read this and stop posting rubbish.

Contrails are ice crystals formed when the upper atmosphere is moist enough (relative humidity above around 65%).

https://irishweatheronline.wordpress.com/2013/09/08/contrails-v-chemtrails-the-science-that-debunks-the-conspiracy/

What crap? I'm looking for an answer to my questions. And for the record, I live on planet Earth, a planet Earth, that has, for the last few years, been coating my sky with residue.

ProfessorPlum

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Unfortunately for the last 15 years or so people have been walking with their heads down looking at phone screens.

Awaits the first post claiming they are chemtrails.

Too late. See 4 posts above.

FWVT

NI24 wrote: »

OK. Does the exhaust account for the white haze though? It covers the entire sky. And what about the temperature increase?



I was hoping for more personal observations.


Says you. I know for a fact that they do because I've been documenting it.



What crap? I'm looking for an answer to my questions. And for the record, I live on planet Earth, a planet Earth, that has, for the last few years, been coating my sky with residue.

1) Where do you live?
2) Let us see your "documented evidence".
3) Pretty much everything you claim is a gross exaggeration. We DON'T get contrails EVERY DAY without fail, they DON'T always span the ENTIRE sky, they DON'T form a milky haze, and they MOST CERTAINLY DON'T cause a 5-10 degree temperature-rise.

That is the crap I speak of.

This is not After Hours, where your only other posts have been.

vicwatson

^^^^

Jeez relax

NI24

FWVT wrote: »

1) Where do you live?

In the US.

FWVT wrote: »

2) Let us see your "documented evidence".

I didn't say it was "evidence". I'm not trying to prove anything to you, I'm asking for a simplified explanation of the contrails and any observations someone across the ocean might have.

FWVT wrote: »

3) Pretty much everything you claim is a gross exaggeration. We DON'T get contrails EVERY DAY without fail, they DON'T always span the ENTIRE sky, they DON'T form a milky haze, and they MOST CERTAINLY DON'T cause a 5-10 degree temperature-rise.

Once again, says you. You may not get contrails every day, yours may not span the entire sky, I didn't say they form a "milky haze", I said they form a white haze, and yours may not cause a temperature increase--mine, however, do.

FWVT wrote: »

That is the crap I speak of.

The only crap I see is the angry accusatory tone you've railed against me, based on your assumptions.

FWVT wrote: »

This is not After Hours, where your only other posts have been.

Completely untrue, but nice try.

NI24

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Seriously how do people still not know about contrails and don't notice them. I was tought about them in school when I was about 5 back in the late 80s. I noticed them myself as a kid growing up as they are very easy to see yet I meet people who don't notice them until they are in their 20s. Seriously do people not look up every now and again or is everyone walking around with horse blinkers on. They are covered is kids school books since the 50s.

Um, I think its quite obvious that I do notice them.

NI24

NI24 wrote: »

Says you. I know for a fact that they do because I've been documenting it.

Less of that attitude and you might get more friendly responses, the "Facts" you speak of are unproven by yourself therefore they are NOT facts merely unsupported statements.

For a start you never stated your location, you may point to your profile "ponderosa" but many people don't put accurate locations in theirs so it certainly would have been helpful to state your location. it was easy for us to assume you were in Ireland as it is Boards.ie. I was speaking in relation to what I have experienced here in Ireland and they most certainly don't happen here EVERYDAY.

We most certainly DO NOT get 5-10 degree temperature changes afterwards.

eatmyshorts

The tone and contact of your posts indicates that you definitely belong in the chemical nut group.

However..

If you live in the US, there's no real possibility that there's "very little air traffic" . Have you looked at FlightRadar24.com?

Contrails formation, size and characteristics are a function of many variables. Wind velocity, temperature, humidity, altitude, engine type etc.
A contrail is just an artificially created cloud. Water molecules freezing or coming out of suspension due to coalescence around a starter particle nuclei.
The length will be effected by how much water is available and the make up of the airmass in which it is formed. The reason they sometimes spread out into a thin layer is simply due to the upper winds dispersing the ice crystals. You can even tell the direction of the wind by looking at the spread of the contrail. Just imagine how a line dye put into a river would spread due to the currents. Exact same thing.

It's not some government conspiracy, it's not some form of mind control, it's not some form of global climate alteration..... It's simply just good old physics and chemistry.

NI24

Deleted User wrote: »

Less of that attitude and you might get more friendly responses, the "Facts" you speak of are unproven by yourself therefore they are NOT facts merely unsupported statements.

I am not the one who started in with the attitude, so my attitude was completely justified, GVHOT, especially since it came out of left field. The only one who needs to be more friendly in this thread is FWVT. He had no reason to adopt that attitude right off the bat and if he doesn't like the thread, he is under no obligation to continue posting in it. And I didn't realize my location was mandatory information, and since FWVT is so familiar with my posting history, I have an inkling he knows exactly what my location is. Back on topic please....

eatmyshorts

Very little air traffic??.... . [url] http://youtu.be/z1US_4uf4YE[/url]

NI24

eatmyshorts wrote: »

The tone and contact of your posts indicates that you definitely belong in the chemical nut group.

And the tone of some the posts in here, including yours, indicate some serious whackos with a serious axe to grind. An axe that had nothing to do with my questions, btw.

eatmyshorts wrote: »

It's not some government conspiracy, it's not some form of mind control, it's not some form of global climate alteration..... It's simply just good old physics and chemistry.

What on Earth has this got to do with the questions I raised? Your post is really stretching now.

K.Flyer

O.P.
Which part of the first few answers do you disagree with, it really does have to do with physics.
Simply put, they are the products of combustion, not too far different than the "steam" that you see coming from the flue of a modern day gas or oil boiler.

FWVT

NI24 wrote: »

In the US.
I didn't say it was "evidence". I'm not trying to prove anything to you, I'm asking for a simplified explanation of the contrails and any observations someone across the ocean might have.


Once again, says you. You may not get contrails every day, yours may not span the entire sky, I didn't say they form a "milky haze", I said they form a white haze, and yours may not cause a temperature increase--mine, however, do.



The only crap I see is the angry accusatory tone you've railed against me, based on your assumptions.



Completely untrue, but nice try.

Tell me where you live and show me the evidence of 5-10 degree rise due to contrails. I have posted my article for you, which explains the science of contrails in both a dumbed-down and in-depth way, so post your counter evidence.

You're not, by any chance, that woman who sprayed vinegar in the air to ward off the contrails, are you?

eatmyshorts

NI24 wrote: »

And the tone of some the posts in here, including yours, indicate some serious whackos with a serious axe to grind. An axe that had nothing to do with my questions, btw.


What on Earth has this got to do with the questions I raised? Your post is really stretching now.

I tried to answer your questions about contrails formation and characteristics. Which I took the time to type out. But you just seem incapable of understanding.
Actually, what is it you really want to know then? I thought my post answered some of your questions. I'm sure others here would agree.

The only one in here throwing around attitude seems to be you.

Happy contrailing!

NI24

eatmyshorts wrote: »

Very little air traffic??.... . http://youtu.be/z1US_4uf4YE

Yeah, I consider where I live to have very little air traffic. And you haven't provided any answers to my questions, so why are you posting?

FWVT

NI24 wrote: »

And the tone of some the posts in here, including yours, indicate some serious whackos with a serious axe to grind. An axe that had nothing to do with my questions, btw.


What on Earth has this got to do with the questions I raised? Your post is really stretching now.

You fool no-one. You are trying to get in here under the guise of an innocent person asking innocent questions about contrails when in fact the claims you make are word for word those that chemtrail nuts use. I've seen it a hundred times, it's so transparent

NI24

FWVT wrote: »

Tell me where you live and show me the evidence of 5-10 degree rise due to contrails. I have posted my article for you, which explains the science of contrails in both a dumbed-down and in-depth way, so post your counter evidence.

You're not, by any chance, that woman who sprayed vinegar in the air to ward off the contrails, are you?

I don't have to show you any evidence, because I'm not trying to prove anything to you. And you especially.

eatmyshorts

FWVT wrote: »

You fool no-one. You are trying to get in here under the guise of an innocent person asking innocent questions about contrails when in fact the claims you make are word for word those that chemtrail nuts use. I've seen it a hundred times, it's so transparent

The tinfoil hat aroused my suspicion straight away. :-)

Timberrrrrrrr

NI24 wrote: »

I don't have to show you any evidence, because I'm not trying to prove anything to you. And you especially.

Well you made the claim of severe temp rises so the onus is on you to prove this.

NI24

eatmyshorts wrote: »

I tried to answer your questions about contrails formation and characteristics. Which I took the time to type out. But you just seem incapable of understanding.
Actually, what is it you really want to know then? I thought my post answered some of your questions. I'm sure others here would agree.

The only one in here throwing around attitude seems to be you.

Happy contrailing!

And that attitude started with FWVT's ridiculous accusations right out of the starting gate.

eatmyshorts

NI24 wrote: »

.


What on Earth has this got to do with the questions I raised? Your post is really stretching now.

I, and the others, thought we answered your questions quote comprehensively.

Obviously not, so can you just take a minute to clarify what exactly you are enquiring about? That's if you know yourself.

Endthescam

vicwatson wrote: »

Water vapour condensed, the size and how long they last is to do with air pressure surrounding where they are created.

google -

Contrails are clouds formed when water vapor condenses and freezes around small particles (aerosols) that exist in aircraft exhaust. Some of that water vapor comes from the air around the plane; and, some is added by the exhaust of the aircraft. The exhaust of an aircraft contains both gas (vapor) and solid particles.

If you believe that, you'll believe anything.

FWVT

NI24 wrote: »

And that attitude started with FWVT's ridiculous accusations right out of the starting gate.

No, the thread started with your ridiculous statements of "fact", yet you refuse to show us your "documented" evidence.

Round and round and round we go. Mods, can we put an end to it?

eatmyshorts

FWVT wrote: »

Round and round and round we go. Mods, can we put an end to it?

Let it run... We haven't had a good laugh like this since owenc got banned!!

Graham

Endthescam wrote: »

If you believe that, you'll believe anything.

You don't believe in physics or you don't believe planes have exhausts that emit exhaust gases?

eatmyshorts

Graham wrote: »

You don't believe in physics or you don't believe planes have exhausts that emit exhaust gases?

Physics schmysics..... It's all witchcraft I tells ya!!

Captain Chaos

Endthescam wrote: »

If you believe that, you'll believe anything.

You must have done really well with your science projects in secondary school so. Care to tell us what happens in your version of physics and chemistry that any 13 year old can disprove. What happens when you exhale on a cold morning versus a summer's day.

FWVT

eatmyshorts wrote: »

Physics schmysics..... It's all witchcraft I tells ya!!

Physics Smithwicks

eatmyshorts

FWVT wrote: »

Physics Smithwicks

Yes, I have noticed that creamy cloudy head on my Smithwicks getting bigger and lasting longer these days. It's a conspiracy!!!

FWVT

eatmyshorts wrote: »

Yes, I have noticed that creamy cloudy head on my Smithwicks getting bigger and lasting longer these days. It's a conspiracy!!!

It's not "creamy", it's "white"! Tut tut

NI24

K.Flyer wrote: »

O.P.
Which part of the first few answers do you disagree with, it really does have to do with physics.
Simply put, they are the products of combustion, not too far different than the "steam" that you see coming from the flue of a modern day gas or oil boiler.

I don't necessarily disagree K.Flyer, but I'm wondering why I a) can't locate planes b)it happens everyday c) all day and night, and more importantly d)the temperature increase.

And FWVT, eatmyshorts, GVHOT all coming out with the same accusations is weird to say the least.

NI24

NI24 wrote: »

I am not the one who started in with the attitude, so my attitude was completely justified, GVHOT, especially since it came out of left field. The only one who needs to be more friendly in this thread is FWVT. He had no reason to adopt that attitude right off the bat and if he doesn't like the thread, he is under no obligation to continue posting in it. And I didn't realize my location was mandatory information, and since FWVT is so familiar with my posting history, I have an inkling he knows exactly what my location is. Back on topic please....

Nah I'm done conversing with you.

I love the sound of popcorn popping, I must take it out of the microwave before it burns though. That's also simple psychics.

rosser44

Endthescam wrote: »

If you believe that, you'll believe anything.

Well would you like to enlighten us as to what they are?

Please no YouTube vids, I want you to educate us all in your own words.

NI24

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Well you made the claim of severe temp rises so the onus is on you to prove this.

Um, no its not. I'm not trying to prove anything, I'm asking people to give me their ideas on my observations. Some have, but most are just derailing the thread.

eatmyshorts

NI24 wrote: »

And FWVT, eatmyshorts, GVHOT all coming out with the same accusations is weird to say the least.

It's not weird at all. We're simply all part of the same Illuminati conspiracy.

FWVT

NI24 wrote: »

I don't necessarily disagree K.Flyer, but I'm wondering why I a) can't locate planes b)it happens everyday c) all day and night, and more importantly d)the temperature increase.

And FWVT, eatmyshorts, GVHOT all coming out with the same accusations is weird to say the least.

eatmyshorts

rosser44 wrote: »

Well would you like to enlighten us as to what they are?

Please no YouTube vids, I want you to educate us all in your own words.

At risk of repeating myself...
Contrails formation, size and characteristics are a function of many variables. Wind velocity, temperature, humidity, altitude, engine type etc.
A contrail is just an artificially created cloud. Water molecules freezing or coming out of suspension due to coalescence around a starter particle nuclei.
The length will be effected by how much water is available and the make up of the airmass in which it is formed. The reason they sometimes spread out into a thin layer is simply due to the upper winds dispersing the ice crystals. You can even tell the direction of the wind by looking at the spread of the contrail. Just imagine how a line dye put into a river would spread due to the currents. Exact same thing.

It's not some government conspiracy, it's not some form of mind control, it's not some form of global climate alteration..... It's simply just good old physics and chemistry.

Which part of that post doesn't answer your question?

eatmyshorts

NI24 wrote: »

I don't necessarily disagree K.Flyer, but I'm wondering why I a) can't locate planes b)it happens everyday c) all day and night, and more importantly d)the temperature increase.

A) the planes are easy to locate. Just look on the Fliggtradar24 app or website. I even posted a video to show you the density of air traffic over a whole day.

it doesn't happen everyday. That's a fact.

C) see b above

D) have you been recording these alleged temp increases or have meteorological data to show it?

If the contrails are happening all day and night, then wouldn't there, according to your theory, be a constant higher temperature, and not a varying increase and decrease?

cnocbui

I have lived in Australia and Ireland. You rarely get contrails in Australia because the air is usually a lot warmer and drier. You get contrails a lot in Ireland but they are far more prevalent in winter than summer and you definitely don't get them every day and their length and longevity varies a lot.

The reason you get contrails is because when you burn a hydrocarbon like kerosene, you will get 1.25Kg of water for every 1 kg of kerosene you burn. The extra weight is because of the 3.5 kg of oxygen that is also consumed.

So a jet engine exhaust contains a very large amount of water vapour. When it cools in the sub zero air at the altitude aircraft usually cruise at, the water vapour can condense and become visible if the conditions are right.

A contrail is just a long thin cloud.

FWVT

NI24 wrote: »

Um, no its not. I'm not trying to prove anything, I'm asking people to give me their ideas on my observations. Some have, but most are just derailing the thread.

I have posted my article for you, if you would care to read it. It will answer all of your questions. In case you missed it...

https://irishweatheronline.wordpress.com/2013/09/08/contrails-v-chemtrails-the-science-that-debunks-the-conspiracy/

eatmyshorts

cnocbui wrote: »

I have lived in Australia and Ireland. You rarely get contrails in Australia because the air is usually a lot warmer and drier. You get contrails a lot in Ireland but they are far more prevalent in winter than summer and you definitely don't get them every day and their length and longevity varies a lot.

The reason you get contrails is because when you burn a hydrocarbon like kerosene, you will get 1.25Kg of water for every 1 kg of kerosene you burn. The extra weight is because of the 3.5 kg of oxygen that is also consumed.

So a jet engine exhaust contains a very large amount of water vapour. When it cools in the sub zero air at the altitude aircraft usually cruise at, the water vapour can condense and become visible if the conditions are right.

A contrail is just a long thin cloud.

Easy there, science boy. All that rational thinking and won't go down well here!

FWVT

cnocbui wrote: »

I have lived in Australia and Ireland. You rarely get contrails in Australia because the air is usually a lot warmer and drier. You get contrails a lot in Ireland but they are far more prevalent in winter than summer and you definitely don't get them every day and their length and longevity varies a lot.

The reason you get contrails is because when you burn a hydrocarbon like kerosene, you will get 1.25Kg of water for every 1 kg of kerosene you burn. The extra weight is because of the 3.5 kg of oxygen that is also consumed.

So a jet engine exhaust contains a very large amount of water vapour. When it cools in the sub zero air at the altitude aircraft usually cruise at, the water vapour can condense and become visible if the conditions are right.

A contrail is just a long thin cloud.

But the vast majority of the moisture in the contrail does not come from the exhaust gases, only about 1 molecule in every 30,000 does. That is why contrails only form in areas of high ambient moisture at cruising level

NI24

cnocbui wrote: »

I have lived in Australia and Ireland. You rarely get contrails in Australia because the air is usually a lot warmer and drier. You get contrails a lot in Ireland but they are far more prevalent in winter than summer and you definitely don't get them every day and their length and longevity varies a lot.

So in colder, more humid climates the contrails expand and stay longer?

cnocbui wrote: »

So a jet engine exhaust contains a very large amount of water vapour. When it cools in the sub zero air at the altitude aircraft usually cruise at, the water vapour can condense and become visible if the conditions are right.

Is this true of all jet engine planes? And are all planes jet engine?