School Uniforms

DGOBS

Received a letter from our primary school today (via PA) informing us that school uniform have to be bought/paid/and collected on June 3rd for next term!! and got notified today only 2 weeks before required.

These are crested and MUST be bought for through the school PA, I am hopping mad :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad: 3 months before these are required!

Anyone else in this situation?
Do schools just have no clue at all that parents out there have to find this money, I have 3 kids in that school, and costs are crazy!

killbillvol2

Your issue would seem to be with the Parents' Association rather than the school? Have you contacted them?

byhookorbycrook

Can you get the crest separately and sew it on to a cheaper generic?

DGOBS

Nope, they don't sell the crest separately (thanks for the suggestion though)

I am assuming that like everything else that comes through this school, the school takes 10%

I feel like I am dealing with a business, this school has partnered with another group that sells schoolbags (the school takes 10%) it allows outside companies to send flyers home via children as long as they get 10% sales, last week it was circus tickets!!!!!

In the last month, they have looks for school tour money, swimming money (swimming in now mandatory as part of the year) money for fund raisers, supply cakes for cake sale, and on and on, and on......

And I am sure in the next week or two (as last year) the demand for next terms school book rental fees will arrive.

Killbill, my issue is with both entities (the dog does wag the tail) , and yes I will be speaking with both, but was trying to see what general opinion is.

freshpopcorn

Go talk to the principal and tell him you have difficulty raising finance and you need to sort something out.

evolving_doors

The fact that it 'has to be' bought and paid for in 2 weeks is a bit rich in my opinion. (esp with 3 kids). What kind of ball-park figure is that?

Ask around with a few of the other parents , although if they dont mind and the PA are calling the shots then the only way you could affect change at this stage is going to a PA meeting or trying to appeal directly to the principal.

Im assuming this is the first time its happened (2weeks notice). Why the big rush though? Are the PA trying to get the steal on any parents who might be going through other avenues to get uniforms during the summer. Your best bet is to appeal for a later date or even a payment plan due to its last minute nature. I sincerely doubt the supplier is growling at the PA and demanding payment ASAP... might be time to look for a diff supplier if thats the case.

killbillvol2

Sounds like the PA and the principal or BOM are pushing this way too hard. You need to figure out who's wagging who!

Apart from any other consideration buying a school uniform 3 months in advance for a primary school child is ridiculous. I've seen kids stretch a few inches over the summer holidays.

Penny Tration

Is there any way you could cut the crest off of old/too small uniforms and get them stitched onto generic clothing?

DGOBS

Don't get me wrong here, I can pay for this, but I am looking at this from all parents perspective, and it just makes my blood boil.

But thanks for all the input, I will approach the Principle and PA next week, I just think the school PA this year has pushed hard on all parents, the demands being made on stuff like this is just a stretch too far.

The school seems to be very, very money focused, without any realisation on the people who are being pressured.

Re the swimming this year, first time it was made mandatory, and part of the curriculum, my understanding is if this was made the case, don't my children have a constitutional right to free education, and if this is mandatory, then if follows that it shouldn't have a charge attached to it.

evolving_doors

DGOBS wrote: »

Don't get me wrong here, I can pay for this, but I am looking at this from all parents perspective, and it just makes my blood boil.

But thanks for all the input, I will approach the Principle and PA next week, I just think the school PA this year has pushed hard on all parents, the demands being made on stuff like this is just a stretch too far.

The school seems to be very, very money focused, without any realisation on the people who are being pressured.

Re the swimming this year, first time it was made mandatory, and part of the curriculum, my understanding is if this was made the case, don't my children have a constitutional right to free education, and if this is mandatory, then if follows that it shouldn't have a charge attached to it.

I think if it's during school time (e.g. during a PE class) then yes, they shouldn't have to pay for it (or be discriminated by being excluded). So in that sense you should have the right to say no and still have your children attend, then the ball would be back in the school's court.

byhookorbycrook

Swimming is an area the DES doesn't seem to mind schools having to ask parents to fund. The 10% on uniforms is surely counterproductive and asking parents to cough up for uniforms at such short notice at this time of the year is just plain silly.

Moonbeam

Is there not a designated supplier ?
SO you can get it through the school or in August go get it from the supplier?
People that get back to school allowance would not get it at this time of the year to fund the uniform.

DGOBS

The letter home, said, the supplier will be at the school June 3, uniforms will be there for collection, full payment required on the night.
They will not be returning.

I assume, I could get in touch with them? I don't know to be honest. (Will ask)
Even the 'single supplier' seems wrong, and the quality of them last year was rubbish, would have got better in Pennys!

Again, it's all about the language being used around the supply, and mostly the time of year, absolute madness, and I am glad to have had you guys respond, because I thought it was just me, in previous years, late June they had a 'fitting night' where you could leave a small deposit, and there was a collection evening in mid/late August where you collected your order and paid the balance.

And I am positive, within the next 2 weeks there will be a second letter about paying and collection for next years book rental scheme!
(a great scheme, but months in advance again is madness)

I think if it's during school time (e.g. during a PE class) then yes, they shouldn't have to pay for it (or be discriminated by being excluded). So in that sense you should have the right to say no and still have your children attend, then the ball would be back in the school's court.

Yes swimming is during school time, and no option was given to opt out (not that I would have) but again it's just pressure on parents, my children all attend swimming lessons every week, it's expensive, but in my opinion worth it as a valuable life skill, but then I have to pay for them to go for 8 lessons at this time of year for school time too, where, to be honest, they learn nothing, and 8 lessons to a child who can't swim is even more worthless. I has taken my eldest over 3 years to complete a swimming program.

Re the DES, if it's unconstitutional there opinion matters very little, if it's part of a mandatory curriculum on a public school, on school hours, how can people be made pay for it. You see thats the disconnect between schools and parents, schools don't seem to recognise the difficulty they place on parents, it has all become about funding the school in whatever manner they see fit. Barely a week has gone by in the past year where the school wasn't asking for money for something in the weekly news letter sent home, including bribes to small children in the 'small prize for who collects the most' or the latest ' a €1 trip to the shop per student for the class that collects the most'

byhookorbycrook

DGOBS wrote: »

. You see thats the disconnect between schools and parents, schools don't seem to recognise the difficulty they place on parents, it has all become about funding the school in whatever manner they see fit. Barely a week has gone by in the past year where the school wasn't asking for money for something in the weekly news letter sent home, including bribes to small children in the 'small prize for who collects the most' or the latest ' a €1 trip to the shop per student for the class that collects the most'

What????That's absolutely ridiculous. How does that work???

Unfortunately schools are chronically short of money, even Eddie Hobbs , who did a programme trying to make a primary school survive only on DES funds couldn't. But what you describe is ridiculous.

evolving_doors

It sounds like they are going 'swimming' but getting zero trained instruction.. i.e. just a splash-about with a lifeguard patrolling? Is this the case OP.

If this is during PE time then I would be concerned that the teacher is abdicating his/her responsibilities of actually following a curriculum. Maybe there is an instructor so they might be very drilled by him/her so in that sense they are expending energy in a good way.

pooch90

Gebgbegb wrote: »

It sounds like they are going 'swimming' but getting zero trained instruction.. i.e. just a splash-about with a lifeguard patrolling? Is this the case OP.

If this is during PE time then I would be concerned that the teacher is abdicating his/her responsibilities of actually following a curriculum. Maybe there is an instructor so they might be very drilled by him/her so in that sense they are expending energy in a good way.

Where are you getting that from??
Any school that brings kids swimming has the instructors there to teach the kids to swim. 8 weeks won't teach them how to swim, I think that's what OP was getting at. Do you actually expect the class teacher to teach the kids to swim? Do you have a clue what the aquatics strand of the curriculum contains?

byhookorbycrook

I don't know of any primary teachers who are trained swim instructors. Anyway, back to the uniforms.

afkasurfjunkie

The thing with swimming is that it's on the curriculum and therefore has to be covered. In our school the PA pay for the bus to the pool but parents pay for the lessons. Obviously there are children who go swimming outside of school and might not need lessons as such through the school but every year I see children who would never be brought swimming or to a pool if it werent for the school. Sad I know and I don't work in a disadvantaged area.
As for paying for the uniform, every summer it's done to death. The cost of going back to school in September. your school is looking for the money in May/June. Would you prefer to fork out for it in September? Would it be possible to just buy the crested jumper and get the trousers/shirt elsewhere cheaper?
Our school has a tracksuit. It has to be ordered and paid for in June. Why? Because for a few years some parents were ordering the tracksuit but not paying for it in September when they arrived in and therefore leaving the school to foot the bill.

evolving_doors

pooch90 wrote: »

Where are you getting that from??
Any school that brings kids swimming has the instructors there to teach the kids to swim. 8 weeks won't teach them how to swim, I think that's what OP was getting at. Do you actually expect the class teacher to teach the kids to swim? Do you have a clue what the aquatics strand of the curriculum contains?

Ok apologies, the OP said "..., where, to be honest, they learn nothing, and 8 lessons to a child who can't swim is even more worthless." So I assumed they weren't getting proper instruction.

painauchocolat

Just a quick note on the idea that the suppliers won't be returning. Has to be utter nonsense (from school / PA, not OP) Kids enrol mid year in pretty much all schools. There will have to be a way for them to get a uniform

DGOBS

The thing with swimming is that it's on the curriculum and therefore has to be covered. In our school the PA pay for the bus to the pool but parents pay for the lessons. Obviously there are children who go swimming outside of school and might not need lessons as such through the school but every year I see children who would never be brought swimming or to a pool if it werent for the school. Sad I know and I don't work in a disadvantaged area.
As for paying for the uniform, every summer it's done to death. The cost of going back to school in September. your school is looking for the money in May/June. Would you prefer to fork out for it in September? Would it be possible to just buy the crested jumper and get the trousers/shirt elsewhere cheaper?
Our school has a tracksuit. It has to be ordered and paid for in June. Why? Because for a few years some parents were ordering the tracksuit but not paying for it in September when they arrived in and therefore leaving the school to foot the bill.

Sorry for the late reply.

Firstly, if swimming is on the curriculum, and is not optional, I don't feel parents should be FORCED to pay for it, and in that vain also, what is the point in having it on the curriculum if children don't learn to swim????? As admittedly they can't lear to swim in 8 hours.
I mean, you do you teach any other subject to children with the same outcome? I come back to that free education is a constitutional right of all our children, to make any education in public schools mandatory and chargable sure contravenes our constitution? or is this seen as an exception?

On that matter, just reading the sign in our school today, 'School Closed Tomorrow for Election' so, enjoy you day off (or paid counting day), even though in my local school a single classroom is all that is in use for election day, the huge gym lays empty, as does the local community centre, and a few other options that would allow the school to be open, oh and the small print, school closed next week for 1/2 days for teachers meeting,plenty of room to do that on friday?

Re uniforms in June, done to death, I would prefer to 'fork out for them' at a time of my choosing, not anyone else, my responsibility is to ensure they have a uniform when they start school, to be cornered into buying them 3 months in advance is ridiculous, and unjustifiable in any manner.

I cannot be responsible for other parents not paying their bills as arranged, but this would be an issue between suppliers and the purchaser, no one else. My children grow (as do most!) I would not buy them any clothes 3 months in advance!

What about parents who get the back to school grant? They are now expected to pay for uniforms and books in June? they don't receive anything until august, or do schools not care that this is the case?

I am sick of being seen as a cash cow for schools, it has gone far and beyond a joke, the justification is they don't receive enough government funding, I understand that, but squeezing parents and looking for new and ingenious ways of extracting money from them by exploiting children (bribery with promises of sweet and accolades for collecting money) is sickening

byhookorbycrook

In fairness, "the school" isn't spending the money on foreign holidays for the teachers (and if they are ,I want to work there!) the money is used for the children. Yes, most children won't learn to swim in 8 hours, but they are learning about water safety and aquatics. Both the issue of underfunding and funding for aquatics are issues you need to raise with the DES. "Free" education is a myth, to be honest between books, uniforms, bus costs etc.

Year after year the underfunding is raised at INTO congress but the media like to sell it as greedy teachers.

Some issues you raise need to be addresses to the parents' council, like the uniform (and the 10%) and the playing off of children against each other to "win" as fundraisers.

I'm not sure why you raise the election? Our school will be open and none of us will be working as polling clerks.But again the choice of polling venue is a matter you need to raise with the relevant authorities, schools don't get a say.

ETA Many teachers spend a lot of their own money on things for the classroom because the school can't meet the costs.

katydid

DGOBS wrote: »

Received a letter from our primary school today (via PA) informing us that school uniform have to be bought/paid/and collected on June 3rd for next term!! and got notified today only 2 weeks before required.

These are crested and MUST be bought for through the school PA, I am hopping mad :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad: 3 months before these are required!

Anyone else in this situation?
Do schools just have no clue at all that parents out there have to find this money, I have 3 kids in that school, and costs are crazy!

It's the fault of parents for not insisting on non-crested uniforms or no uniforms at all. No sympathy. The schools need to know how many uniforms they will need.

katydid

DGOBS wrote: »

Nope, they don't sell the crest separately (thanks for the suggestion though)

I am assuming that like everything else that comes through this school, the school takes 10%

I feel like I am dealing with a business, this school has partnered with another group that sells schoolbags (the school takes 10%) it allows outside companies to send flyers home via children as long as they get 10% sales, last week it was circus tickets!!!!!

In the last month, they have looks for school tour money, swimming money (swimming in now mandatory as part of the year) money for fund raisers, supply cakes for cake sale, and on and on, and on......

And I am sure in the next week or two (as last year) the demand for next terms school book rental fees will arrive.

Killbill, my issue is with both entities (the dog does wag the tail) , and yes I will be speaking with both, but was trying to see what general opinion is.

What evidence do you have that the school would take 10% of the cost of the uniforms?

Why do you think the school is looking for money? Do you think the PTA and the teachers want to be spending time doing fundraising and looking for money? It's simple - they don't get enough from the government. Take it up with them...

uck51js9zml2yt

My son starts junior infants in September. Uniforms can be bought in tesco except the tracksuit which is measured and bought in September. A practical school.
They do a mix of bought and loan books. They offer to buy the books for the kids and parents pay the school but I want to check out the cheaper option.

katydid

Zayd Substantial Above wrote: »

My son starts junior infants in September. Uniforms can be bought in tesco except the tracksuit which is measured and bought in September. A practical school.
They do a mix of bought and loan books. They offer to buy the books for the kids and parents pay the school but I want to check out the cheaper option.

So sad to see little junior infants in school uniforms. All those pictures in the papers of little kids on their first day at school always depress me....I'm one of those minorities that HATE uniforms.

uck51js9zml2yt

katydid wrote: »

So sad to see little junior infants in school uniforms. All those pictures in the papers of little kids on their first day at school always depress me....I'm one of those minorities that HATE uniforms.

I'm inclined to agree. At least its only a blue jumper shirt and pair of trousers. No logo involved except on the tracksuit which is about 30e. My only worry is is that hell grow out of it mid year. At 4 1/2 he's already over 4 feet tall.

DGOBS

It's the fault of parents for not insisting on non-crested uniforms or no uniforms at all. No sympathy. The schools need to know how many uniforms they will need.

Really? It's the parents fault? Really? Here's the bill, now move along. The school decided on a uniform not me.

What evidence do you have that the school would take 10% of the cost of the uniforms?

10% take is the standard this particular school takes on anything thats promoted or sold 'through' the school, this is adverts for businesses etc too.

Free education is a right, I see there is associated costs parents take on the chin (uniforms etc) but when a school keeps heaping it on! (swimming etc) I pay every week for my children to learn to swim, I don't need to pay the school to do a lip service to it also, but am not given a choice.

katydid

DGOBS wrote: »

Really? It's the parents fault? Really? Here's the bill, now move along. The school decided on a uniform not me.

10% take is the standard this particular school takes on anything thats promoted or sold 'through' the school, this is adverts for businesses etc too.

Free education is a right, I see there is associated costs parents take on the chin (uniforms etc) but when a school keeps heaping it on! (swimming etc) I pay every week for my children to learn to swim, I don't need to pay the school to do a lip service to it also, but am not given a choice.

You decided to send your child to a school that has a uniform.... Did you object to the uniform? Did you have an option of a non-uniform school? Did you complain about the costs of the uniform, the use of crests etc.? My daughter went to a non-uniform primary school, but I had no choice in secondary; I had to send her to a uniformed school. But I objected to spending three times the amount on crested polo shirts for PE and branded designer label track suit bottoms. I bought them in Dunnes. The school objected but I refused to back down. Other parents joined in and the following year, we got a letter saying they could buy generic polo shirts and track suit bottoms...

Do you have evidence that the school takes a 10% cut, or is that just a supposition? I'm just curious, as I've never heard of it before.

I agree totally that free education is a right, but I'm not sure why your gripe is with the school. If the parents don't pay, the kids don't go swimming, as the school doesn't get funding from the government to pay for swimming. That is the case with any of the things it fundraises for.

You seem to think that busy teachers and parents in the PTA have nothing else to be doing but fundraise, or that they are showing the money into their own wallets.

DGOBS

I only object to being forced to buy a uniform (though the school) and 3 months before I need them..

OH, and right on cue, school books to be bought, paid for and collected the following week June 11th, ...this is madness!

Did you have an option of a non-uniform school? NO
Did you complain about the costs of the uniform, the use of crests etc.? NO, its about timing more than anything
Do you have evidence that the school takes a 10% cut, or is that just a supposition? On other items yes, it's a common practice there
If the parents don't pay, the kids don't go swimming. Swimming was mandatory, and have the letter that confirms it
or that they are showing the money into their own wallets...Never suggested that

Graham

It would be interesting to know if the school / BoM are acting within the recommendations of The Competition Authority:

http://www.tca.ie/EN/Whats-The-Story/Whats-the-storywith-school-uniforms.aspx#