The RSA's latest idea - Mandatory First Aid Kits

_Kaiser_

From here:

The Road Safety Authority reportedly wants penalty points for failing to have a first aid kit in your car.

A proposal by the RSA also wants it to be compulsory for all drivers to have torch, hi-vis vest and a warning triangle in their vehicle.

The RSA says it hopes the failure to have the kit could become a penalty points offence, or a compulsory requirement to pass the NCT.

Yet another bright idea disguised as "health and safety" to try and squeeze more money from the motorist and benefit insurers through increased premiums for nonsensical points offences. I'm not saying there's not some merit behind the idea but the usual "beat them with a stick" attitude is starting to wear thin.

Plus, are they going to pay for everyone to take first aid courses as well I wonder or will that be the next thing? I don't know about your average motorist but I'm certainly no doctor.. that's why we have the emergency services I thought!

Professey Chin

I wouldnt agree with penalty points for it but I thought most people have those things in the car anyway?

_Kaiser_

Professey Chin wrote: »

I wouldnt agree with penalty points for it but I thought most people have those things in the car anyway?

I'd doubt it.. I've certainly never bought a car where a kit was supplied/installed. Triangle yes, but that's about it.

Special Circumstances

Does it include a Bic pen?????

Omg always wanted to do an emergency tracheomety.

Hold still sir.
its my leg... my LEG! Get that biro away from mee !!


But seriously beyond handing someone a plaster or one of those foil blankets I think I'd be best leaving any first aid antics to someone with proper training.

El Guapo!

I suppose they'll fail you in the nct for having the first aid kit out of date too, like they do with taxis. :rolleyes:

BlatentCheek

Sure why not make people keep a defibrillator in their boot as well?

Honestly I wouldn't have a problem with this proposal if it was evidence backed, rather than just copying other jurisdictions which it seems to be.

Special Circumstances

El Guapo! wrote: »

I suppose they'll fail you in the nct for having the first aid kit out of date too, like they do with taxis. :rolleyes:

Yeah it's the logical next step from being obliged to have one.

"You failed your nct, probably invalidating your insurance because the Lidl first aid kit you got 5 years ago, and don't know how to use, has expired. Get back over the counter sir! Get that biro away from meeeee agggh"

There is no incident that cannot be brought to a more successful conclusion with an emergency trachiomety.

drunkmonkey

How about a mandatory first aid course for drivers.

This is nonsense and could do more harm than good in a serious incident. Teach people what to do in an emergencey and save some lives.

Also they want this be a penalty point offence, is this a round about way of allowing the Gardaí to search your car without a warrant. Inspecting for plasters my ass.

biko

I'm all for it.

cnocbui

What a stupid idea. There is no point in having a mandatory First Aid kit unless it's also mandatory to have First Aid Training, and even then, many people would be worried about being sued for giving medical assistance to someone involved in an accident.

You could make a better case for it being mandatory to have a phone.

B00056718

Been enforced in Latvia for years. Can't pass the NCT unless the fire extinguisher and the first aid kit are present and in date. In addition, only approved kits can be used, so no cheap Lidl escape.

Some guys started to borrow the neighbors equipment for the test, but now they have S/N and during the NCT those are tied to the vehicle on the register.

First aid course is mandatory to obtain a driving licence too.

Besides, in Ireland, if you see an accident, you're not obliged to stop and help, but if you start assisting, you must proceed.

In Latvia, since every driver is trained first aider, you must stop and help. Can be prosecuted if you don't.

Youngblood.III

Mandatory, Yes...penalty points, No.

biko

I don't think anyone is expecting people to be trained EMT's.
Rather you help with what you can - if this means you can't manage any help at all, at least you have a med kit to lend someone else who can.

Gumbo

I have a torch, first aid kit and triangle in the car already. Always had.
Hi Viz would always be there too because of the nature of my work.

I agree though, we are getting crap from the RSA, next we will have to carry bulb and fuse replacements.

johnayo

I can never understand why a warning triangle is not part of the the breakdown kit in every car. It should be there with the jack and wheel brace.

Gumbo

johnayo wrote: »

I can never understand why a warning triangle is not part of the the breakdown kit in every car. It should be there with the jack and wheel brace.

Yeah some give it, some don't. Bmw for example have it as standard and a first aid kit so most of it is covered already.

Youngblood.III

In France you have to have your own breathalyser, spare blubs, triangle, hi-viz...big fine if not...This includes tourist taking over their own veh8.

Special Circumstances

At least if they promised us flares...

CiniO

Great idea from RSA. I'm definitely for it.
I already carry everything listed in my cars, and think everyone should.
As of NCT fail for lack of those items -same -good idea as this will probably be the only way of enforcement considering lack of road side checks in Ireland.
Penalty points - why not. They should be issued for much greater variety of offences than they are issued now, but insurers shouldn't be entitled to base their premium on amount of penalty points.

El Horseboxo

How would this be enforced on the day to day? Stop and search? Can't see many police doing that.

cletus

I've no problem with having a first aid kit in my car. The question is will they stipulate what needs to be in it. Contents of even basic first aid kids vary greatly.

The idea of every driver being a first aider is nice in theory, but how many will pay to recertify every 2-3 years.

With regards to being sued, it's my understanding that you cannot be sued for offering first aid to somebody.

Special Circumstances

cletus wrote: »

With regards to being sued, it's my understanding that you cannot be sued for offering first aid to somebody.

boo yaaah!





Basic first aid kit is one thing.
A specific approved kit, serial numbered and linked to your car - I assume this won't be used as an excuse to ride people on the cost. LOL!

Chris_Heilong

They really need to stop trying to justify their existence by coming up with new things,

Dear RSA, every thing is fine now, we dont need you any more, its time for you to leave.

biko

Tbh, they may as well go with a medikit and also a mini fire extinguisher.
Particularly the latter as if/when you see a burning car at least you know how to use that (I hope )

Alun

It's been the law in Germany for ages, along with the warning triangle, and not just any first-aid kit, it has to be an approved one for use in a car. You are also required by law to assist anybody you come across that has been involved in an accident, and can be prosecuted if you don't. Mandatory first-aid classes are also included in the driving education program.

old_aussie

How often has anyone on here rendered medical assistance in a car accident?

Me, been driving and riding motorcycles for over 40 years and never have I once been somewhere that there is a need for me to render medical assistance.

Can I charge the person for the bandages and kit if I was to use it to save their life?

FFS.

munchkin_utd

Alun wrote: »

It's been the law in Germany for ages, along with the warning triangle, and not just any first-aid kit, it has to be an approved one for use in a car. You are also required by law to assist anybody you come across that has been involved in an accident, and can be prosecuted if you don't. Mandatory first-aid classes are also included in the driving education program.

Indeed.

And the idea that it'll cost the motorist a heap of cash is also wrong.

Aldi and lidl sell the kits for a fiver whenever they have motoring items as their weekly special, and theres an international standard so it'd be the same one for Ireland, meaning lidl and aldi would supply them in ireland for a fiver too.

In Finland first aid kit is not compulsory. Warning triangle has always been mandatory and is checked at NCT, as is should be. Bulbs are not required but it makes a lot of sense to carry spares.

As a curiosity if you have a first aid kit and will help somebody with it over there you can claim the used items back from your insurance company foc. Kind of a carrot. But having everybody to carry a first aid kit is a bit pointless if you don't know how to use it, IMO. And if you use it you need to pay to potentially save somebody's life which is not great either.

CantGetNoSleep

munchkin_utd wrote: »

Indeed.

And the idea that it'll cost the motorist a heap of cash is also wrong.

Aldi and lidl sell the kits for a fiver whenever they have motoring items as their weekly special, and theres an international standard so it'd be the same one for Ireland, meaning lidl and aldi would supply them in ireland for a fiver too.

In Ireland you will only allowed use approved first aid kits manufactured by a company which doesn't exist yet. It will be owned by Denis O'Brien.

Special Circumstances

Mandatory first aid training for drivers. Hmmmmm.
Having seen the standard of driving resulting from driving education/enforcement in Ireland, I think I'd have to be unconscious or I would physically resist anyone except a doctor/nurse/EMT administering first aid to me.

deandean

First aid kit in a car is pretty useless IMO.

I'd far prefer to see legislation whereby car manufacturers are required to include a spare wheel with every new car.

thelad95

This is completely idiotic. There are no good samaritan laws in Ireland. Basically, what that means is if somebody requires medical assistance, you have no legal obligation to assist them. In fact, it creates a massive potential for medical negligence if you mess something up.

If most people felt they could help at an accident by bandaging an arm or leg or whatever, they would. They don't need some RSA approved first aid kit to do that. Now they may feel they have an obligation to attempt something they're not properly trained in.

If the RSA want to be serious about this then ditch the stupid reverse around the corner and have one EDT lesson on first aid.

Special Circumstances

deandean wrote: »

I'd far prefer to see legislation whereby car manufacturers are required to include a spare wheel with every new car.

Flares lad, flares! Nothing says "lets kick this off" like a few flares

al22

In my ex foreign country it is a mandatory requirement. And First Aid training is a mandatory too as a part of a driving lessons. Nobody ask to do a surgery etc but to give a first help everybody should be able to do that, like stop bleeding or dressing a wound or know what to do and what you should never attempt to do yourself and who to call if anything else. Help in a first minutes before ambulance arrive can save life.

B00056718

old_aussie wrote: »

How often has anyone on here rendered medical assistance in a car accident?

Me, been driving and riding motorcycles for over 40 years and never have I once been somewhere that there is a need for me to render medical assistance.

Can I charge the person for the bandages and kit if I was to use it to save their life?

FFS.

Fair point. I was assisting a heavy collision once. I was the only one at the scene, where two people were trapped in the car. Advised by emergency services not to touch them, even though one of the guys was begging for a help.
Was just giving a feedback back to the fire crew on the phone. One guy died before the crews arrived.

I have had multiple first aid training courses completed, but even if I had the first aid kit, I don't think I could have changed the outcome. if anything, I could make it even worse.
And I certainly wouldn't feel comfortable about trying to admit first aid in that scenario.

dgt

I have a first aid kit in my glovebox. Consists of napkins and electrical tape. Why you would want to perform open heart surgery on the side of the N66 and stitch up the poor sod is beyond me

As previously stated, I'd rather see that spare wheels and proper toolkits were mandatory, along with education on how to change a wheel. Whilst some may cry with the laughing watching someone struggling to remove bolts or watch a car fall off a scissor jack someone could get seriously hurt

Fatswaldo

Due to my job, I have been carrying all of that kit mentioned in my car for nearly 20 years. In all that time, driving 80,000 km + each year, I have never used any of it at the scene of an accident or breakdown.

Apart from a work situation, The First aid kit is handy sometimes at social events etc and the bulbs get used but making it part of a NCT or points system seems non-sensical.

Spook_ie

cletus wrote: »

I've no problem with having a first aid kit in my car. The question is will they stipulate what needs to be in it. Contents of even basic first aid kids vary greatly.

The idea of every driver being a first aider is nice in theory, but how many will pay to recertify every 2-3 years.

With regards to being sued, it's my understanding that you cannot be sued for offering first aid to somebody.

You'd do the same as for a taxi, just state DIN 13164 as being the acceptable kit. Should all have to have fire extinguishers to, welcome to my world of bureaucracy gone mad

H3llR4iser

Once again, the RSA demonstrate they work on a set of priorities that is misguided at best; Shall I stress out that this still is a country with a vast amount of non-licensed drivers on the roads?

Making the first aid kit mandatory could be ok (even 'though, most people wouldn't know how to use it - I'd be one!), but applying penalty points or an NCT fail for it is idiotic.

The vest and triangle are much more reasonable - especially the latter. It's mandatory almost anywhere else, it actually has an important function - coming up to a broken down car on an unlit road at night it not a pleasant experience - and does not require training to be used.

two4two

I am a trained EMT and I think this is rubbish. It's another money maker. If you come across an accident that requires a plaster then your probably stopping and interfering and if you stop at an accident that needs more than a plaster then you will prob need an ambulance at that stage. It just doesn't make sense unless EVERYONE is medically first aid trained and even then I know some EMT's I wouldn't let put a plaster on me never mind the other life saving skills they possess.

Greenmachine

Nonsense really bringing in penalty points for a first aid kit. Would not feel comfortable giving it to anyone. My medical expertise would see me go as far as putting on a plaster or maybe paper stitich on myself. No interest in playing doctor with a stranger.
I think triangles and high visibility vest make sense, and maybe the like of those foil type blankets. Think a small might be appropriate but would not wanted it to be legislated so the police could use it as an excuse to search your vehicle, except maybe at the scene of an accident provided of course no-one life was in danger.

two4two

Greenmachine wrote: »

Nonsense really bringing in penalty points for a first aid kit. Would not feel comfortable giving it to anyone. My medical expertise would see me go as far as putting on a plaster or maybe paper stitich on myself. No interest in playing doctor with a stranger.
I think triangles and high visibility vest make sense, and maybe the like of those foil type blankets. Think a small might be appropriate but would not wanted it to be legislated so the police could use it as an excuse to search your vehicle, except maybe at the scene of an accident provided of course no-one life was in danger.

you see this is it exactly. it's one thing putting a plaster or bandage on yourself but it's the blind leading the blind for 2 strangers playing with plasters on the side of the road. A foil blanket now could be useful but penalty points is nonsense

Alun

H3llR4iser wrote: »

The vest and triangle are much more reasonable - especially the latter. It's mandatory almost anywhere else, it actually has an important function - coming up to a broken down car on an unlit road at night it not a pleasant experience - and does not require training to be used.

You'd think so, but the number of people who think it's a good idea to place it about 2m behind the car is staggering.

iscom

I already have a first aid kit for my family use, but penalty point for not having one is a bit over the top (I wonder who comes up with those ideas). . now if it was for not having a spare headlight bulb i could understand the funny thing is, its not a requirement to have rear fog light or front fog for that matter.

Deadwards.com

It really is an idiotic idea. Who is going to use a plaster to help in an emergency. As stated in earlier posts if the person only need a bandage, move along, if they need more, call the experts.

If they used some grey matter even for a second perhaps make a seatbelt cutter and window breaker mandatory. Much more useful IMO to get out of the vehicle rather than offer a bandage.

Triangle and hi-vis vest make sense though but penalty points?????

Oh and if first aid training becomes compulsory, I imagine a subsidiary of the RSA will be the ones running the course.

thecamcam

may as well drive a f*cking ambulance instead of car so

Triangla

It's what you get when you employ people full time to come up with health & safety ideas.

Much easier to come up with that rubbish than actually engage in proper driver education.

If I was in an accident and required medical attention the last thing I want is some have a go hero with his Tesco first aid kit. Call and ambulance, sit down and shut up.

Spook_ie

Alun wrote: »

You'd think so, but the number of people who think it's a good idea to place it about 2m behind the car is staggering.

Came across an overturned car on a twisty road one night, parked my car one side of the bend to protect car ( no one injured luckily ), hazards on, put warning triangle other side of bend, rang the Gards to come and put some Blues out to protect the scene better than my car and a triangle, they duly arrived about 15-20 minutes later. I went to collect my triangle and some ****er had nicked it

two4two

Spook_ie wrote: »

Came across an overturned car on a twisty road one night, parked my car one side of the bend to protect car ( no one injured luckily ), hazards on, put warning triangle other side of bend, rang the Gards to come and put some Blues out to protect the scene better than my car and a triangle, they duly arrived about 15-20 minutes later. I went to collect my triangle and some ****er had nicked it

Disgraceful that somebody nicked your triangle! I wonder what would happen should you have fended off incorrectly and caused another accident. Disaster of a situation for you but now your knee deep in the mess all for trying to help. These things have to be weighed up when stopping to give a hand unfortunately.

Anjobe

iscom wrote: »

...now if it was for not having a spare headlight bulb i could understand...

Unfortunately there are many cars around where changing a headlight bulb at the side of the road is not possible, in which case carrying a spare bulb is quite pointless.

Jimmy Garlic

It should be mandatory to have a doctor and a nurse in the back seat of every car.