Mark English - "If Martin Fagan really loves the sport, he shouldn’t compete again."

average_runner

Is there any WR out there that we think is clean?

TFBubendorfer

<MOD>May I just remind everyone that doping speculation is against boards rules and therefore VERBOTEN</MOD>

And while we're at it, don't mention the war :rolleyes:

ThisRegard

Chivito550 wrote: »

You are joking right? Distance running is just as tainted by drug use, if not more.

No, not joking. I never said it was clean, but you still had to go back 40, 30, 20 years ago in your argument.

average_runner

walshb wrote: »

I believe Bolt's to be clean. I understand the Jamaican issue. I can see the point here.

If the drugs cheats push the others to new levels then are you saying that some of the others are clean?

I do think some are clean and i really hope Bolt is. I think Bolt is the kind of guy that says feck ye all, i just try beat the cheats with my talent and that drives him on.

walshb

average_runner wrote: »

Is there any WR out there that we think is clean?

I think many are. If we cannot think or believe that to be true then what's the point of the sport at all?

The world is gone way OTT on their pessimistic attitude to sports achievements. There are plenty of sincere and honest competing athletes in all sports, and many who are huge success too. Even Greg LeMond said that it was possible to race to the top levels whilst being clean. He proved it.

I would say-think that more men's record's are clean than women's.

ThisRegard

walshb wrote: »

I think many are. If we cannot think or believe that to be true then what's the point of the sport at all.

Entertainment with an unhealthy dose of cynicism ?

Owen_S

PaulieC wrote: »

The 100m's would be maybe a second slower, but at least the contestants were running on talent and hard work and not PEDs.

You might need to read up on PEDs - they enable people to work harder, as the increased protein synthesis decreases recovery time. People on PEDs can train harder and more frequently than non-enhanced counterparts.

walshb

average_runner wrote: »

I do think some are clean and i really hope Bolt is. I think Bolt is the kind of guy that says feck ye all, i just try beat the cheats with my talent and that drives him on.

Bolt for me is clean. I cannot know for certain, but when you take it all on-board there is just something very natural and believable about him. He is also a damn talented man. Freak of nature. He was a stand out athlete for many years.

walshb

Owen_S wrote: »

You might need to read up on PEDs - they enable people to work harder, as the increased protein synthesis decreases recovery time. People on PEDs can train harder and more frequently than non-enhanced counterparts.

You haven't mentioned that in allowing the athlete to train harder and longer and recover faster that this allows them to improve their times and performances. That is what PaulieC is alluding to I believe.

PaulieC

Owen_S wrote: »

You might need to read up on PEDs - they enable people to work harder, as the increased protein synthesis decreases recovery time. People on PEDs can train harder and more frequently than non-enhanced counterparts.

Jesus, everyone is on fine pedantic form here today.

I will restate my point:

The 100 metres might be a touch slower, but it would not be any less exciting if it comprised only those who were not using banned substances to enhance their performance.

robinph

Gatlin has now lost his 4x100 silver from London 2012:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/athletics/32731015

Unfortunately, he lost it by association with Gay rather than his own misdemeanour's which should have stopped him even turning up in London in the first place. But it's still something.

Chivito550

ThisRegard wrote: »

No, not joking. I never said it was clean, but you still had to go back 40, 30, 20 years ago in your argument.

What part of the 2012 women's 1500m final, Kenyan crisis or Shobukhova do you not understand? I was in the stadium the night those Turks claimed 1-2, and Tomashova came 4th. People talk about Seoul 88 bring the dirtiest race in history, well this was just as bad. It just doesn't make the headlines because sprinting generally has better personalities, tend to speak English, and is of more interest to the man on the street.

And if people want to go back as far as 88 as they tend to always do when discussing drugs, then let's do it for distance running too.

walshb

I would have thought that distance running was every bit as dirty as sprinting. Particularly the middle distance runners. I still believe that the current men's records at these distances to be clean.

Shelflife

The problem with allowing dopers to return after relatively short suspensions is that you are basically giving dopers an insurance policy.

Take a 20yr old athlete, he can dope away secure in the knowledge that if he's caught he will be back again in 2 yrs. it's worth the risk.

If it was a lifetime suspension then it denies them this fallback position.

Personally wouldn't be happy seeing a doper represent me in the green of Ireland.

How many careers have been lost through clean athletes giving up as they thought they weren't good enough when finishing second to an athlete that was doping ?

Retrospective medal giving while the results may change in the record books doesn't account for the joy and sense of achievement that they missed out on at that time, not to mention the commercial side that they missed out on.

Once caught that should be it. I'd hate to line up beside a doper who had consistently beaten me into 2nd place through cheating.

j0hn1

Chivito550 wrote: »

The soccer and rugby stuff is very much true. Lot of people burying their heads in the sand, and will never question the size of rugby players these days, or footballers running around at the end of extra time like its the 2nd minute of the game. And don't get me started on 6 hour tennis matches with 50 stroke rally's in the 5th set.

I don't disagree, what I meant was it may have been wiser for him to stay away from casting aspersions on other sports, as in doing so he may have undermined his valid points relating to his own sport.

ThisRegard

Chivito550 wrote: »

What part of the 2012 women's 1500m final, Kenyan crisis or Shobukhova do you not understand? I was in the stadium the night those Turks claimed 1-2, and Tomashova came 4th. People talk about Seoul 88 bring the dirtiest race in history, well this was just as bad. It just doesn't make the headlines because sprinting generally has better personalities, tend to speak English, and is of more interest to the man on the street.

And if people want to go back as far as 88 as they tend to always do when discussing drugs, then let's do it for distance running too.

It's almost as if I'm directly accusing you.

PaulieC

ThisRegard wrote: »

It's almost as if I'm directly accusing you.

track fairies stick together...

Oregano_State

ThisRegard wrote: »

It's almost as if I'm directly accusing you.

You haven't responded directly to any of his points. Taking pot-shots like this doesn't add anything to the discussion.

spurscormac

Back to the article, I thought this was pretty funny about accidentally taking tainted supplements...

MarkEnglish wrote:

You just need to be sure that the company you’re getting it from is reliable and that all their products are drug tested… You’re responsible for what goes into your body at the end of the day — every athlete knows that. You just need to choose what products you’re taking very wisely.

Of course it’s unfortunate for those that don’t know what they’re taking… Okay, you might be innocent, but you’ve failed the stupidity test, so I don’t think you should really be in the sport.

Djoucer

This is/was the problem with cycling and omerta. If you spoke out, YOU were ostracised rather than the dopers.

Interesting to note the first few posts of this thread immediately criticise English for even answering a question that was obviously asked of him.

This is the entire amount of words English devoted to the Fagan issue:

“If I were him, I would just not compete in the sport again for the sake of it. If Martin Fagan really loves the sport, he shouldn’t compete again.”

That's it. That's all he said re Fagan.

He doesn't criticise him, he doesn't judge him. He simply states, if he was in Fagan's shoes, he wouldn't complete for the good of the sport as a whole.

The Fagan issue is many things, but it's definitely not tiresome.

The very fact that he has served his time and is back running means his past will never go away. It can't and it shouldn't.

It's great to see an Irish athlete speak so openly about it and put forward his feelings on doping.

At the end of the day, people like Fagan are damaging his sport and he's entitled to give his views on the matter.

ultrapercy

Pherekydes wrote: »

10.6? Harold Abrahams ran that in 1924.

Jesus h the man was speaking figuratively his point is what's important and valid.

ThisRegard

Oregano_State wrote: »

You haven't responded directly to any of his points. Taking pot-shots like this doesn't add anything to the discussion.

You can be selective all you want, it was my comprehension questioned first.

Djoucer

Djoucer wrote: »

This is/was the problem with cycling and omerta. If you spoke out, YOU were ostracised rather than the dopers.

Interesting to note the first few posts of this thread immediately criticise English for even answering a question that was obviously asked of him.

This is the entire amount of words English devoted to the Fagan issue:

“If I were him, I would just not compete in the sport again for the sake of it. If Martin Fagan really loves the sport, he shouldn’t compete again.”

That's it. That's all he said re Fagan.

He doesn't criticise him, he doesn't judge him. He simply states, if he was in Fagan's shoes, he wouldn't complete for the good of the sport as a whole.

The Fagan issue is many things, but it's definitely not tiresome.

The very fact that he has served his time and is back running means his past will never go away. It can't and it shouldn't.

It's great to see an Irish athlete speak so openly about it and put forward his feelings on doping.

At the end of the day, people like Fagan are damaging his sport and he's entitled to give his views on the matter.

Yeah, seems to me that he has taken a brave stance and risked the opprobrium of others when it would have been easier for him to shrug his shoulders and give the "he's done his time" line. I admire his willingness to take that position and to state it clearly.

clear thinking

average_runner wrote: »

Is there any WR out there that we think is clean?

Just after the Clonliffe 2 tonight, during our warm/cool down, we were admiring Sonia's 2k record. Assuming it still stands!

Oregano_State

clear thinking wrote: »

Just after the Clonliffe 2 tonight, during our warm/cool down, we were admiring Sonia's 2k record. Assuming it still stands!

I'm pretty sure it does. Dibaba had a crack at it last year but blew up if I remember correctly.

TFBubendorfer

spurscormac wrote: »

Back to the article, I thought this was pretty funny about accidentally taking tainted supplements...

MarkEnglish wrote:

Of course it’s unfortunate for those that don’t know what they’re taking… Okay, you might be innocent, but you’ve failed the stupidity test, so I don’t think you should really be in the sport.

Very true, but it also was a nightmare scenario of mine. When I ran in Turin I had thrown out all my supplements months earlier to avoid any possibility of contamination, but there still was that little voice in my head "what if you inadvertently took something ..."

kit3

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

Very true, but it also was a nightmare scenario of mine. When I ran in Turin I had thrown out all my supplements months earlier to avoid any possibility of contamination, but there still was that little voice in my head "what if you inadvertently took something ..."

As a matter of interest - do they test everyone at an event like Turin - must be a huge undertaking ?

eldiva

Drugs? In athletics? Used by Martin Fagan among others? Well I never heard the likes

kit3

eldiva wrote: »

Drugs? In athletics? Used by Martin Fagan among others? Well I never heard the likes

Should you not be running up a hill or something youngfella ?

conavitzky

clear thinking wrote: »

Just after the Clonliffe 2 tonight, during our warm/cool down, we were admiring Sonia's 2k record. Assuming it still stands!

That record went two weeks ago in Ballymote. Beaten by Corran Ac under 10 relay squad! ;-)