Ireland to assist in migrant crisis in the Med.

MathDebater

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

You're confusing efficiency with being tough.
The Irish system is let them in, house them in centers and then drag the arse out of processing. If there was Olympic games of inefficiency, the Irish would come last, or fail to register in time.

The reason that they are in the system for so long is because over 90% of claims are unfounded and they appeal every refusal that they receive. Over 800 are currently fighting deportation orders in the High Courts. If we reduced the number of appeals allowed and increased deportations, I doubt very much that you would be supportive of such measures.

You seem to hold the Swiss in high regard. They house asylum seekers in old army barracks' up in the mountains - http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/asylum-in-the-mountains/31146850

Anyway, another 900 were rescued by the Italians:

More than 900 "migrants" were rescued in one day from three overcrowded boats en route to Europe from North Africa, an Italian coast guard official said on Thursday.

http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_wsite1_1_21/05/2015_550236

MorpheusKnight

IrishTrajan wrote: »

Du bist Deutscher?



I see what you're doing. A bit of the old "reverse psychology". Nice try, Hans, you won't trick us into wanting your migrants to show you we can do it.

He is absolutely right. Ireland can't even take care of it's own.

Proof positive that we should not be taking in economic migrants.

(Reverse Reverse psychology)

Or, perhaps he is suggesting we should have a tax system similar to Sweden where you are taxed 80%[.

I thought communism was dead.

MathDebater

Radly wrote: »

I disagree with this. Immigrating is now becoming a very big topic, outside of the realms of the far left and far right, people in the middle are now starting to discuss the situation in earnest. This is where the real solutions to any problems will be dealt with in a fair manner. On one hand I can appreciate what some on the far left are trying to do, as for many of them it is born out of good intentions and good heart. I believe that many of them might feel a middle of the road solution (ie using a canadian type points system) would in the end be ok, but to counter the extreme vision of the right they have to also promote an extreme vision. My big problem with the far left is their constant shutting down of any debate on the issue of immigration, as this will get us nowhere.

I think the Danish style points system for non EU citizens would work well here. Points for qualifications and where they were obtained, work experience, time already spent working/studying in another member state, other languages spoken etc that would help in our tech hubs. Have a gander - http://www.nyidanmark.dk/en-us/coming_to_dk/work/greencard-scheme/

Radly

MathDebater wrote: »

I think the Danish style points system for non EU citizens would work well here. Points for qualifications and where they were obtained, work experience, time already spent working/studying in another member state, other languages spoken etc that would help in our tech hubs. Have a gander - http://www.nyidanmark.dk/en-us/coming_to_dk/work/greencard-scheme/

Yes that seems like a good system. Excuse my ignorance, but as it stands with Irelands position in europe, would we be "allowed" to implement a system like that at this stage without leaving europe?

Peter Anthony

Radly wrote: »

Yes that seems like a good system. Excuse my ignorance, but as it stands with Irelands position in europe, would we be "allowed" to implement a system like that at this stage without leaving europe?

Nope, the EU is a free for all. And at this point it has gone from travel freedom for Europeans to people from every country. Thats why we should leave and administer the Australian style system. Like UKIP in the UK advocate even though their marxist media demonise them as anti all immigration.

Markcheese

MathDebater wrote: »

I think the Danish style points system for non EU citizens would work well here. Points for qualifications and where they were obtained, work experience, time already spent working/studying in another member state, other languages spoken etc that would help in our tech hubs. Have a gander - http://www.nyidanmark.dk/en-us/coming_to_dk/work/greencard-scheme/

Dunno if they still do - but there was a similar system in aus - also a list of skills that they're looking for - that alters as demand changes -
Personally I'd let anyone with a masters (maybe certain degrees) from approved universities in to work . But they're on their own for say 2 years .

wakka12

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

I have seen their "Slums". I booked a hotel in Stockholm, it was called the Kista Ibis. What we didn't know, it was not in Kista at all, it was in Hysby. It is one of those slums, just the night before there had been a riot and cars were burned out.
Anyways, this is a slum in Stockholm. I sometimes think I would rather live there than anywhere in Ireland. Nice people, nice weather, nice country and boy do they know how to do things properly.









I never felt safer in my life, which I cannot always say for Ennis at 3am Sunday.
What you can't see is the railway station, leisure center with pool, large park, huge playground and sports grounds. You don't even have to be a member for the sports ground, it's just there. You turn up and play.
There are estates in Ennis that are no-go zones, half the houses are burnt out and the other half for sale for €60-80k. Yes, maybe the Irish haven't this whole "running a country" malarkey figured out quite yet.

On second thought, maybe you are right. Ireland cannot even look after it's own people, we are a Mecca (pardon the expression) for greed, selfishness, uncaringness and a healthy "I'm alright, let them, eat cake" attitude.
And it shows. We aspire to be like the US, a small elite creaming it at the top a struggling middle class and at least 20-40% of the people "written off" as human garbage. these will live in ever larger slums such as Moyross, Ballymun and a million of these "settled" accommodation sites springing up all over the country.
Ireland is the biggest sh*t on the poor society in Europe, fcuk everyone else, fcuk those filthy foreigners, as long as I get to live in my badly built house, drive a crap car as long as it's new, go on my annual holiday in Spain and get pissed down the pub 2-3 times a week, everything is hunky dory and I don't want to know about those filthy people coming here.
And this is why Ireland will never be Switzerland. Apart form the fact that we don't have much of an indigenous industry.

Wonderful, Im sure the refugees will craft ireland into this paradise you so badly seek.

AlekSmart

Nodin wrote: »

Sounds remarkably like racism to me.

Afraid not,but your response sounds remarkably like the narrowest version of a mind to me.

Radly

Peter Anthony wrote: »

Nope, the EU is a free for all. And at this point it has gone from travel freedom for Europeans to people from every country. Thats why we should leave and administer the Australian style system. Like UKIP in the UK advocate even though their marxist media demonise them as anti all immigration.

I'm not a big fan of UKIP tbh, but like I said their kind will exist because of an similar opposing opposite. I think it would be a bit of a throwing the baby out with the bathwater thing leaving europe over everyone not being able to reach a middle ground somewhere.

Outside of the polarizations I would like to hear more peoples suggestions of what may work in the long term. So we introduce a points system... will this change the actual numbers coming in or will it just change the education levels? Maybe if it took out a lot of the economic immigrants of the equation it would free up some space for us to take in actual genuine refugees

MorpheusKnight

Radly wrote: »

I'm not a big fan of UKIP tbh, but like I said their kind will exist because of an similar opposing opposite. I think it would be a bit of a throwing the baby out with the bathwater thing leaving europe over everyone not being able to reach a middle ground somewhere.

Outside of the polarizations I would like to hear more peoples suggestions of what may work in the long term. So we introduce a points system... will this change the actual numbers coming in or will it just change the education levels? Maybe if it took out a lot of the economic immigrants of the equation it would free up some space for us to take in actual genuine refugees

For starters we should only accept people being cleansed out of ME and Africa. Real refugees. Not economic migrants.

Copts, Christians, Ba'hai and Yazidi's.

That would be the starter of a points system for me.

Gatling

Markcheese wrote: »

Dunno if they still do - but there was a similar system in aus - also a list of skills that they're looking for - that alters as demand changes -
Personally I'd let anyone with a masters (maybe certain degrees) from approved universities in to work . But they're on their own for say 2 years .

Then look at the flip side marry an asylum seeker in Denmark and you face exile

MorpheusKnight

Gatling wrote: »

Then look at the flip side marry an asylum seeker in Denmark and you face exile

What do you mean? What happens there?

Eutow

Radly wrote: »

I'm not a big fan of UKIP tbh, but like I said their kind will exist because of an similar opposing opposite. I think it would be a bit of a throwing the baby out with the bathwater thing leaving europe over everyone not being able to reach a middle ground somewhere.

Outside of the polarizations I would like to hear more peoples suggestions of what may work in the long term. So we introduce a points system... will this change the actual numbers coming in or will it just change the education levels? Maybe if it took out a lot of the economic immigrants of the equation it would free up some space for us to take in actual genuine refugees

The EU should fcuk off trying to tell individual European countries how many economic migrants from outside the EU they must take in. A points system for non EU people would be a good idea, with EU countries allowed to decide for themselves the quota's and the skills and professions they are short of labour of. A list of these skills needed would be available. Each country would be able to periodically review the quota's and skills shortage and adjust accordingly. Don't meet the requirement you don't get in.

Asylum seekers are a different thing altogether. The ones trying to cross the Med and enter Europe are illegal, so they should not be allowed to enter.

Gatling

MorpheusKnight wrote: »

What do you mean? What happens there?

If you marry a person from outside the EU your exiled from the country it was brought into to deter fraud and fake marriages scams many have to settle in Sweden or further afield due to marrying a non national from outside the EU

MorpheusKnight

Gatling wrote: »

If you marry a person from outside the EU your exiled from the country it was brought into to deter fraud and fake marriages scams many have to settle in Sweden or further afield due to marrying a non national from outside the EU

That is the same in the States, and the UK. I am sure many other countries have similar systems in place.

Get married if you like. But if you want to live in the host country, the application has to be made from outside of the country.

(EU nationals, even if both are Irish, wanting to get married in Ireland have to wait 90 days before they can get married. No Vegas weddings here).

Many countries have laws against 'marriages of convenience'

See below.

'...American woman Jamie Paulin Ramirez, who married Damache the day she arrived in Ireland in September 2009 despite never meeting him before...'

Today's Independent
Man arrested in international probe into an alleged plot to murder Lars Vilks walks free from jail after his extradition to the United States on terror charges was refused
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/man-arrested-in-international-probe-into-an-alleged-plot-to-murder-lars-vilks-walks-free-from-jail-after-his-extradition-to-the-united-states-on-terror-charges-was-refused-31242862.html


It has started.

MathDebater

Gatling wrote: »

If you marry a person from outside the EU your exiled from the country it was brought into to deter fraud and fake marriages scams many have to settle in Sweden or further afield due to marrying a non national from outside the EU

What are you talking about? Appplicants for Danish spouse visas have to be over 24, must not be on welfare, must be self sufficient, must pay a bond of circa 50k danish krone and the marriage must be legit and valid under Danish law. Perfectly reasonable. Meet the requirements and the visa will be approved.

KingBrian2

MorpheusKnight wrote: »

He is absolutely right. Ireland can't even take care of it's own.

Proof positive that we should not be taking in economic migrants.

(Reverse Reverse psychology)

Or, perhaps he is suggesting we should have a tax system similar to Sweden where you are taxed 80%[.

I thought communism was dead.

Ireland does not need to take all the immigrants. These people don't want to be too far from their homes. Remember these people want to build a life here in Europe so they can send remittance back to their homelands. This is much more relevant on the continent than here. A lot easier to travel across Spain, France and Belgium from Morocco or Mali. Compared to these countries we get far fewer refuges or Asylum Seekers.

MorpheusKnight

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Ireland does not need to take all the immigrants. These people don't want to be too far from their homes. Remember these people want to build a life here in Europe so they can send remittance back to their homelands. This is much more relevant on the continent than here. A lot easier to travel across Spain, France and Belgium from Morocco or Mali. Compared to these countries we get far fewer refuges or Asylum Seekers.

I agree we get fewer refugees.

But...

Why should we be getting any?

IrishTrajan

MorpheusKnight wrote: »

Today's Independent
Man arrested in international probe into an alleged plot to murder Lars Vilks walks free from jail after his extradition to the United States on terror charges was refused

One can only hope this means the Defence Forces and Gardai will receive additional funding come the next budget.

MorpheusKnight

IrishTrajan wrote: »

One can only hope this means the Defence Forces and Gardai will receive additional funding come the next budget.

C'mon ffs.

You know those budgets are continuously getting cut.


And with several thousand refugees/asylum seekers there will be even less for a security budget.

We're screwed.

MorpheusKnight

IrishTrajan wrote: »

One can only hope this means the Defence Forces and Gardai will receive additional funding come the next budget.

Note to you know who...


Here's one who got through and will be walking amongst us.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/man-arrested-in-international-probe-into-an-alleged-plot-to-murder-lars-vilks-walks-free-from-jail-after-his-extradition-to-the-united-states-on-terror-charges-was-refused-31242862.html

IrishTrajan

MorpheusKnight wrote: »

C'mon ffs.
You know those budgets are continuously getting cut.
And with several thousand refugees/asylum seekers there will be even less for a security budget.
We're screwed.

MorpheusKnight wrote: »

Here's one who got through

I guess you could say this is the... End of the road. :cool:

MorpheusKnight

IrishTrajan wrote: »

I guess you could say this is the... End of the road. :cool:

Nod nod wink wink

MorpheusKnight

IrishTrajan wrote: »

I guess you could say this is the... End of the road. :cool:

Here's another one who got through

http://www.independent.ie/incoming/london-cab-driver-guilty-of-making-bombs-to-kill-us-soldiers-in-iraq-31241854.html

End of.

AlekSmart

PeteFalk78 wrote: »

I find it very hard to understand people who are willing to accept asylum seekers with open arms given how much money they will cost the country.

Every day the media tell us of

- Homeless people dying on the streets
- Families being evicted from their houses
- People on long waiting lists to get medical treatment
- Families not affording food to put on the table etc etc

You can't fix all the worlds wrongs without lots of money Nodin. So unless you've been hibernating for the past 7 years..... you should see that Ireland can't even sort out problems in Ireland ...... nevermind Syria.

It's not actually about sorting out problems at all.

It is far simpler,and relates to the basic concept of people wanting more.

The usual suspects here,and elsewhere in our Celtic wonderland,see this basic human trait as greed or self centredness,particularly when it is being espoused by anybody guilty of being a middle-class contributor.

However,when Greed and Self-Centredness emanates from a poor oppressed dusky foreigner,then it has to be redefined as some form of oppression,discrimination or advantage taking in order for it to be used as a hazel twig to beat ourselves up with (Mind you,if we're unable to lash ourselves,there's no shortage of native crusaders,ever ready to do the honours)

Ireland would not have any major problem taking in whatever number of migrants the EU or the AAA decide should be our burden,the only adjustment required would be a doubling of General Taxation,which,allied with a halving of general Social Protection benefits,would allow us to make a really meaningful contribution to a vast number of these displaced persons...

It just remains to sort out who'se going to be first up for the Benefits Haircut and the Taxation Increase....It looks as if we already know who'se first in that queue....;)

KingBrian2

AlekSmart wrote: »

It's not actually about sorting out problems at all.

It is far simpler,and relates to the basic concept of people wanting more.

The usual suspects here,and elsewhere in our Celtic wonderland,see this basic human trait as greed or self centredness,particularly when it is being espoused by anybody guilty of being a middle-class contributor.

However,when Greed and Self-Centredness emanates from a poor oppressed dusky foreigner,then it has to be redefined as some form of oppression,discrimination or advantage taking in order for it to be used as a hazel twig to beat ourselves up with (Mind you,if we're unable to lash ourselves,there's no shortage of native crusaders,ever ready to do the honours)

Ireland would not have any major problem taking in whatever number of migrants the EU or the AAA decide should be our burden,the only adjustment required would be a doubling of General Taxation,which,allied with a halving of general Social Protection benefits,would allow us to make a really meaningful contribution to a vast number of these displaced persons...

It just remains to sort out who'se going to be first up for the Benefits Haircut and the Taxation Increase....It looks as if we already know who'se first in that queue....;)

Infact immigrants and homeless people are in the same boat so to speak in that their conditions are somewhat similar. However you cannot have the state take responsibilities for all areas of peoples lives. Looking after people that have no homes is the task of government or more specifically local government. If Cork City Council or Waterford City Council want to remove them then so be it. The Oireachtas will not turn them away.

MorpheusKnight

MathDebater wrote: »

It's out of date. Look up the Dublin regulation 3.



http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dublin_Regulation

Mathdebater

.......here you go.....

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/577237/European-Union-bites-back-Theresa-May-threats-Mediterranean-asylum-seekers-Britain


The Dublin Convention states that migrants must claim asylum in the first EU country they arrive in and if they make a second claim in another member state they can be sent back to their original country.

jank

Nodin wrote: »

Ireland is a nation state. Discrimination by ethnicity is illegal here.

True, nor is there a human right to a permanent visa to whomever wants it. As a nation state we get to decide who to let in or not.*

Having a debate on how many per year, who they are and how much it would cost is not racist. No one is arguing that we should have an open border. 99.9% of people would not favor total open borders and giving people a permanent resident visa, hence people know that there is a finite limit. Discussing what this limit and other details is what we should be talking about. Instead we reach the gutter debate of 'your all racist, just cause...'

*Non-EU obviously

Nodin

AlekSmart wrote: »

Afraid not,but your response sounds remarkably like the narrowest version of a mind to me.

Favouring one ethnicity over another isn't racist? Tell me how that one works.

jank

Nodin wrote: »

Favouring one ethnicity over another isn't racist? Tell me how that one works.

Using that logic all countries in the world are 'racist' as..
a) not one country has 100% open borders
b) people who are citizens of a country have a right to reside in said country, people that are not citizens do not have that right.

Do you object to the very idea of a nation state? Are we going all internationalism now, ala communism of old?