obtaining single digit bodyfat and maintaining it

Caoimhin

I said I would throw this topic out there. I have cut down from 20% bodyfat to 11.8% and now its pretty hard going. The overall goal is to get to single digits and I am coming to the end of my 8 week current program.

I am a bit all over the place as to what my new program should be, the old program was just a random one to shock my body and I based it loosely on this: http://theathleticbuild.com/fitness-model-workout-the-amer-the-hammer-kamra-workout-routine-and-diet/
I did not hit these amount of reps because that is crazy, and am doing 10 mins hit after each session.

I was thinking of a 3 day split, repeat twice a week, consisting of mainly compound movements. I am going for a manageable look not extreme but still ripped to the average person. I practice flexible dieting as it has got me this far and is the reason I have not cracked like so often before.

Any advice is welcomed and if you can suggest a personal trainer (in Dublin 3) who specialises in this type of this training please let me know.

Many thanks.

MightyMandarin

Might I ask why are you trying to restrict yourself to a single digit bodyfat%?

<10%bf is not ideal for performance, is quite hard to maintain unless you already have quite a bit of muscle, and you will not make significant gains while restricting yourself to this level.

To be honest, anything less than 12% will look very good to the average person, provided you're not really skinny, and you also have to ask yourself, how many days a year do you plan on walking around shirtless or going to to the beach?

You'd be much better off trying to gain slowly and keeping your bf% within reason, and then cut again once you reach somewhere around 15%. There's no reason to have a 6pack year-round, and unless you're doing a show or a photoshoot, there's no real need to get to really low bf%; it's just not worth the restriction.

Transform

Caoimhin wrote: »

I said I would throw this topic out there. I have cut down from 20% bodyfat to 11.8% and now its pretty hard going. The overall goal is to get to single digits and I am coming to the end of my 8 week current program.

I am a bit all over the place as to what my new program should be, the old program was just a random one to shock my body and I based it loosely on this: http://theathleticbuild.com/fitness-model-workout-the-amer-the-hammer-kamra-workout-routine-and-diet/
I did not hit these amount of reps because that is crazy, and am doing 10 mins hit after each session.

I was thinking of a 3 day split, repeat twice a week, consisting of mainly compound movements. I am going for a manageable look not extreme but still ripped to the average person. I practice flexible dieting as it has got me this far and is the reason I have not cracked like so often before.

Any advice is welcomed and if you can suggest a personal trainer (in Dublin 3) who specialises in this type of this training please let me know.

Many thanks.

current height/weight

age

and current calorie intake per day

current squat, deadlift and weighted chin and dip numbers

Mellor

MightyMandarin wrote: »

<10%bf is not ideal for performance,
...
You'd be much better off trying to gain slowly and keeping your bf%

What if he has no interest in performance? And doesn't want to be bigger/heavier?

Caoimhin

MightyMandarin wrote: »

Might I ask why are you trying to restrict yourself to a single digit bodyfat%?

<10%bf is not ideal for performance, is quite hard to maintain unless you already have quite a bit of muscle, and you will not make significant gains while restricting yourself to this level.

To be honest, anything less than 12% will look very good to the average person, provided you're not really skinny, and you also have to ask yourself, how many days a year do you plan on walking around shirtless or going to to the beach?

You'd be much better off trying to gain slowly and keeping your bf% within reason, and then cut again once you reach somewhere around 15%. There's no reason to have a 6pack year-round, and unless you're doing a show or a photoshoot, there's no real need to get to really low bf%; it's just not worth the restriction.

I already have quite a bit of muscle so there is no fear of me looking skinny at all. I have gained quite a lot and the purpose of this challenge is to loose the last bit of fat around the lower abs really. There is quite a few people in my local gym who can maintain a 6 pack all year round, each one of them has different opinions and training methods, genetics etc.

Caoimhin

Transform wrote: »

current height/weight

age

and current calorie intake per day

current squat, deadlift and weighted chin and dip numbers

Height: about 175cm
Weight: 79kg
Age:28
calories per day sits at around 2200kcal

Squat: 1 RM about 140kg (I have crappy knees)
Deadlift: 1RM 200kg
Weighted chins: never tested 1RM but I can squeeze some reps at 30kg
Dips: never tested 1RM but I can rep 40kg hanging from me

Zillah

Caoimhin wrote: »

Weight: 79kg
calories per day sits at around 2200kcal

That sounds low...

Caoimhin

Mellor wrote: »

What if he has no interest in performance? And doesn't want to be bigger/heavier?

True, I do not play at sport, I am pretty happy with my size and weight.

Caoimhin

Zillah wrote: »

That sounds low...

that is an estimate, it can vary, i do practice flexible dieting. As I said it has got me from 20 to 11 % BF. I have never kcal counted before and generally just focus on experimenting with foods, portion size etc. But as I get into this serious phrase obviously practices like counting kcal will have to become routine until I can do it without thinking

MightyMandarin

Caoimhin wrote: »

True, I do not play at sport, I am pretty happy with my size and weight.

Caoimhin wrote: »

I already have quite a bit of muscle so there is no fear of me looking skinny at all. I have gained quite a lot and the purpose of this challenge is to loose the last bit of fat around the lower abs really. There is quite a few people in my local gym who can maintain a 6 pack all year round, each one of them has different opinions and training methods, genetics etc.

Fair enough, if you want to stay shredded year-round then go for it. It wouldn't be my cup of tea as I feel comfortable at 10-12% now, but if you're willing to be strict with your diet and you don't feel terrible, then that's your choice.

JJayoo

How did you measure your current 11.8% bodyfat?

fungie

JJayoo wrote: »

How did you measure your current 11.8% bodyfat?

good point, can never be that accurate. Best to give no decimal places +-2%

JJayoo

fungie wrote: »

good point, can never be that accurate. Best to give no decimal places +-2%

I just wanna see some topless pics

Caoimhin

JJayoo wrote: »

How did you measure your current 11.8% bodyfat?

I got my bodyfat measured in my gym by 2 different PTs on separate days. It was early in the morning too, my bodyfat can jump around the place. So realistically the purpose if this whole entire exercise is to lose the lower belly fat. I know some people who are 10 or 11% and can see their abs relatively well. I guess I am just one of these people that's gotta work a bit harder.

Caoimhin

fungie wrote: »

good point, can never be that accurate. Best to give no decimal places +-2%

Sorry forgot to add they measured it with a calipers

Caoimhin

JJayoo wrote: »

I just wanna see some topless pics

Haha if I had it, I would flaunt it. But unfortunately I only look good by candle light

The Magnificent Falcowboys

Out of interest whats your waist measurement around your belly button in a relaxed state in cm?

Also how many hours of weight training do you do a week ?

How many hours of cardio do you do a week? Is this low intensity or high intensity cardio

Lastly how long have you been dieting for?

Post up a typical days eating

How much protein do you get a day?

Zillah

The Magnificent Falcowboys wrote: »

Out of interest whats your waist measurement around your belly button in a relaxed state in cm?

I've thought about this before: I'm not sure if this is a helpful measurement. I could easily go +/-5 inches on my waist depending on whether I actively force the muscles to relax as much as possible (preggo belly) compared to tensing up the abs (no belly at all). The abdominal muscles are naturally tensed a little by default, not sure what "relaxed state" really means for abs.

Caoimhin

The Magnificent Falcowboys wrote: »

Out of interest whats your waist measurement around your belly button in a relaxed state in cm?

Also how many hours of weight training do you do a week ?

How many hours of cardio do you do a week? Is this low intensity or high intensity cardio

Lastly how long have you been dieting for?

Post up a typical days eating

How much protein do you get a day?

I dont have a measurement around my belly button in a relaxed state. I train about 50 mins a day, 5-6 days a week. I do about 10 - 15 mins of high intensity interval training with every training session.

I have been flexible eating for the last 2 and a half months. The min amount of protein I get a day is 160g. It can rise about this some days.

This is a rough outline below, i tend to mix it up alot and choose anyone of the meals listed below

Pre workout 7:30am: Protein shake


Morning meal:

Oats and protein shake

Eggs

Chicken sandwich, wholewheat bread

Tuna and veg

Chicken salad
Protein ball

Lunch:


· Chicken and veg
· Lean beef and veg
· Turkey and veg
· Rice and sweet potato can be added depending on how many carbs I want to consume

Afternoon Snack:


· Protein shake and nuts
· Tuna
· Cold meat

Dinner:
· Same as lunch

Snack:
· Geek yogurt with scoop of protein
· Cold meat
· eggs
. nuts

Caoimhin

Relating to the diet, this is a bare outline. I do experiment with recipes, seasoning etc. But all pretty fit friendly.

The Magnificent Falcowboys

Caoimhin wrote: »

Relating to the diet, this is a bare outline. I do experiment with recipes, seasoning etc. But all pretty fit friendly.

What about Weekends/Drink/Crap food?

Caoimhin

The Magnificent Falcowboys wrote: »

What about Weekends/Drink/Crap food?

I drink about once or twice a month and have a cheat meal once a week. I can slip at the weekends but its nothing major and normally tied into my cheat meal

The Magnificent Falcowboys

Flexible dieting is fine as long as your tracking your macros and getting in enough protein, 160g is plenty.

Where you are right now at 11.8 percent the fatloss is going to be super slow, I reckon 1 of 2 things are wrong either

A. Your under estimating your calories and are actually eating too much or

B. you have been dieting for too long and need to recomp which basically means eating at maintenance for 2-4 weeks

One thing you could try is 16/8 fasting by guy named Martin Berkhan

The concept is simple, 16/8 fasting means you fast for 16 hours and you your eating window is 8 hours , black coffee, tea without milk and sugar and water is allowed during the fasting period

So a typical day could look like this

7am wake up and have a large glass of water

8.30 am 1 or 2 cups of black coffee

1pm meal 1 2 large chicken breast(any lean protein source is fine), 1 large baked potatoe, 10g of butter and lots of veg

4pm train

5pm 2 scoops of whey isolate protein post workout

7pm meal 2 as meal 1

9/10pm bed

You also only need to train 3 times a week, make these session low rep, heavy weight sets with 2 to 3 minute rest in between sets(I can send you a program if you pm me)

Go for a walk on your off days

On the days you train up the calories by uping the carb portion of your diet, on your off days go lower in calories by going lower in carbs

Brian?

Caoimhin wrote: »

Relating to the diet, this is a bare outline. I do experiment with recipes, seasoning etc. But all pretty fit friendly.

What you don't need are major changes. Great work so far. I'd say you need to start calorie counting though. You're at the stage now where it really matters, up to now the margin for error was much wider but to get the last bit of fat off you may need to count.

Use myfitnesspal or some such for a few weeks and see where you get. I wouldn't spend money on a PT just yet, you've done a decent job up to now without one. I'd be surprised if there are people walking around at single digit BF% all year round who don't calorie count or do some extreme endurance sport.

Brian?

The Magnificent Falcowboys wrote: »

Flexible dieting is fine as long as your tracking your macros and getting in enough protein, 160g is plenty.

Where you are right now at 11.8 percent the fatloss is going to be super slow, I reckon 1 of 2 things are wrong either

A. Your under estimating your calories and are actually eating too much or

B. you have been dieting for too long and need to recomp which basically means eating at maintenance for 2-4 weeks

One thing you could try is 16/8 fasting by guy named Martin Berkhan

The concept is simple, 16/8 fasting means you fast for 16 hours and you your eating window is 8 hours , black coffee, tea without milk and sugar and water is allowed during the fasting period

So a typical day could look like this

7am wake up and have a large glass of water

8.30 am 1 or 2 cups of black coffee

1pm meal 1 2 large chicken breast(any lean protein source is fine), 1 large baked potatoe, 10g of butter and lots of veg

4pm train

5pm 2 scoops of whey isolate protein post workout

7pm meal 2 as meal 1

9/10pm bed

You also only need to train 3 times a week, make these session low rep, heavy weight sets with 2 to 3 minute rest in between sets(I can send you a program if you pm me)

Go for a walk on your off days

On the days you train up the calories by uping the carb portion of your diet, on your off days go lower in calories by going lower in carbs

That's only 6 hours of eating .

I'm not saying this a bad plan. I don't know. But why specifically pick a lean protein like chicken breast and cover it in butter? Why not have steak and eggs?

Have you a link to the source for this?

The Magnificent Falcowboys

Brian? wrote: »

That's only 6 hours of eating .

I'm not saying this a bad plan. I don't know. But why specifically pick a lean protein like chicken breast and cover it in butter? Why not have steak and eggs?

Have you a link to the source for this?

The butter is for the potato

You tube Greg O Gallagher and he has a good podcast called road to ripped

Brian?

The Magnificent Falcowboys wrote: »

The butter is for the potato

You tube Greg O Gallagher and he has a good podcast called road to ripped

The potato would soak up the eggs and steak juices nicely too .

I don't really do podcasts, anything I can read?

The Magnificent Falcowboys

Brian? wrote: »

The potato would soak up the eggs and steak juices nicely too .

I don't really do podcasts, anything I can read?

Google kinobody , I'm not allowed post a link to the website

Transform

most guys i work with that want to get lean still need to get far stronger, need to train harder and never vary up their workouts enough to force some more muscle growth and promote fat loss - easier to get fat loss with a bigger engine than a smaller one

btw i have the OP at about 2,500cal/day on a slight deficit so IMO 2,200 is a bit much

Caoimhin

thanks for the advice guys, I have switched up my program to Arnolds shortcut to shred and up my carbs a bit more I they were just way too low.So far its going well, but I think calorie counting would be the next step

Caoimhin

Also thank god Westwood in clontarf is dead in the mornings. Fecking everything is the Arnold program is supersetted

Brian?

Caoimhin wrote: »

Also thank god Westwood in clontarf is dead in the mornings. Fecking everything is the Arnold program is supersetted

Have you ever done a pure strength training program?

Caoimhin

Brian? wrote: »

Have you ever done a pure strength training program?

Yep thats how I started off. I loved the 5 x 5 stuff for gaining strength

Transform

Caoimhin wrote: »

thanks for the advice guys, I have switched up my program to Arnolds shortcut to shred and up my carbs a bit more I they were just way too low.So far its going well, but I think calorie counting would be the next step

cool crack on so chief

Mellor

Brian? wrote: »

The potato would soak up the eggs and steak juices nicely too .

I don't really do podcasts, anything I can read?

Reading;
http://www.leangains.com/

Caoimhin

Mellor wrote: »

Reading;
http://www.leangains.com/

I like the intermittent fasting review, seems like a easy to manage method and would be a complex change in approach for me.

chriity139

Caoimhin wrote: »

Also thank god Westwood in clontarf is dead in the mornings. Fecking everything is the Arnold program is supersetted

Im in westwood in clontarf too and generally train from 7pm onwards. My god the place can get so annoying trying to find matching dumbbells or plates or any piece of equipment that isnt taken by a group of young lads texting on their phones.

Anyway rant over I might bump into you up there sometime

Caoimhin

chriity139 wrote: »

Im in westwood in clontarf too and generally train from 7pm onwards. My god the place can get so annoying trying to find matching dumbbells or plates or any piece of equipment that isnt taken by a group of young lads texting on their phones.

Anyway rant over I might bump into you up there sometime

I used to train in the evenings but it's horrible in there. Honestly the morning is dead in there, perfect time to train