RTE's relationship with Sky

nicelives

Looks like the Department of Communications is finally enabling RTE to have more of a business relationship with Sky according to the article of this week's Sunday Times.

irishgeo

nicelives wrote: »

Looks like the Department of Communications is finally enabling RTE to have more of a business relationship with Sky according to the article of this week's Sunday Times.

i thought it was the case that sky paid for the transponder space for rte on 28.2 and didnt charge them epg listing fees.

i mean if rte bring in this charge and say its million year , whats to stop sky saying your epg listing is going to cost a million a year?

Sam Russell

irishgeo wrote: »

i thought it was the case that sky paid for the transponder space for rte on 28.2 and didnt charge them epg listing fees.

i mean if rte bring in this charge and say its million year , whats to stop sky saying your epg listing is going to cost a million a year?

If Sky benefit from having RTE, then there is room for RTE to charge an amount less than that benefit. I would think €1m would be very little in the circumstances.

Given Saorview is available to over 98% of the population, RTE could play hardball.

nicelives

Sam Russell wrote: »

If Sky benefit from having RTE, then there is room for RTE to charge an amount less than that benefit. I would think €1m would be very little in the circumstances.

Given Saorview is available to over 98% of the population, RTE could play hardball.

Exactly, back in 2000 when Sky only had Tara TV and no other Irish channels it wasn't really at the races.

I can imagine regular households that would watch RTE, TV3 etc 50% of the time would really look at other options were Sky to let them disappear from their offering.

Sam Russell

If RTE were (allowed) to make Saorview their main way of broadcasting, and pay channels had to pay to rebroadcast their channels (as they do with BBC etc.), it would transform RTE's funding.

Also it would enhance Saorview's status such that RTE News Now might become RTE's news channel, and be allowed to broadcast live news rather than rebroadcast simultaneously the regular (9 O'Clock etc.) news bulletins.

It could also insist that pay channels take all of Saorview (HD and all).

Andy454

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Stillhouette

Andy454 wrote: »

It would be very funny if Sky told them to get stuffed and put BBC 1,2 and ITV in their pole positions.....

The BBC and ITV want to be payed too. Also RTE is too valuable for Sky. And that is despite what some people would have you believe.

Sam Russell

Andy454 wrote: »

The result would be a hike in the packages for Irish Sky TV subscribers - Im sure there are many minds working overtime in Sky given the recent exchange rates euro v sterling looking for a reason to increase packs - lets not give them it on a plate shall we??

We already pay RTE a TV licence fee, while it does not entitle me to receive these services, I'm really not into paying for things in tripplicate.... lets not have another Irish water thread....

We actually pay the BBC Licence fee as well as its included in the basic sub rates - we get nothing for free!

If they really want revenue and to clamp down on evaders - encrypt "Saorview" turn it into "Iocview" and let the people buy an RTE Card from the post office rather than a TV licence, similar to the way to the Swiss do things.

With this new digital rights directive proposals crossing europe its actually the new way of doing things - This way RTE can sell cards to expats in europe and only pay for rights per number of subscribers rather than regional boundaries.

They'd probably get more expat subscribtions than actual Irish based ones!

They wanted to be on Sky's platform due to dwindling advertising revenue as the platform took hold. It would be very funny if Sky told them to get stuffed and put BBC 1,2 and ITV in their pole positions.....

I already get all the TV I want for free - including BBCs and ITVs. Most Sky subscribers would as well but inertia being what it is, people continue to pay for what is available for free. I understand that if you want certain channels that Sky make you take them all, but it then comes down to the choice whether the wanted channels are worth the exorbitant cost.

You could take the view that the licence fee pays for Saorview so why pay Sky again for the same service. If RTE (and the other Saorview channels) were not available on Sky - would that affect the uptake of Sky? Not all Saorview channels are currently on Sky and that should be the start of any discussion between Sky and RTE.

Andy454

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JDxtra

Andy454 wrote: »

120 euro of every Irish sky sub is paid to the BBC

€120? That does not seem right.

Sam Russell

Andy454 wrote: »

BBC weren't on the Irish EPG at launch - it wasn't till 2000's that sky & BBC agreed a carriage deal.

120 euro of every Irish sky sub is paid to the BBC - Irish Sky Subscribers wanted the BBC and Sky were berrated with calls from Irish subscribers looking for info on when BBC, itv, ch4 were going to join the line up on a daily basis....

No such calls were ever made by Irish subscribers looking for RTE however.... it was RTE that went to Sky for carraige as RTE's ratings and advertising revenue were dropping like lead balloons due to regional versions of sky channels launching and taking advertising revenue away from RTE.

It was thought to be mutually benefical for sky and rte to be carried on the platform, but I certainly hope sky don't cough up a million euro for them - as previously stated, as a sky subscriber Its bad enough I'm already forced to pay the Irish tv licence, I do not want to be hit with a second fee for their carriage on satellite as well!

If on the other hand RTE scrap the TV licence, create a specific Irish tv pack on Sky that people can add of their own free will, well then fine - Let the people who want it pay for it!

This has nothing to do with the TV licence.

The position concerning BBC etc was all pre-Saorview and before the BBC was FTA. With the current distribution of terrestrial TV, 98% can receive it with a roof mounted aerial. With analogue, only 80% could get TV3, and 92% got RTE - so a good change there.

Currently the benefit is all towards Sky, and Sky are not including all Saorview channels, and channels are free to have higher resolution and additional channels on Sky. It would be better for Saorview its channels not to be on Sky and UPC without a serious contribution to RTE and the other channels.

The charging model used by Sky and UPC is against competition as they do not allow subscribers to pick and choose which channels they want without taking the basic package which consists largely of FTA services.

Andy454

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JDxtra

That is pure crazy. I think many would rather see a cut in their bills (35%-ish?) and access these via 'other channels'!

ftakeith

RTE are losing revenue for not having the rte player on sky catch up

Andy454

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Stillhouette

Andy454 wrote: »

120 - 160 euro per Irish sub per year goes to bbc worldwide services for carriage of bbc 1 ni, bbc 2 ni on Irish sky epg

Where are you getting that figure from?

muffler

Andy454 wrote: »

120 - 160 euro per Irish sub per year goes to bbc worldwide services for carriage of bbc 1 ni, bbc 2 ni on Irish sky epg

Can you post the source please?

nicelives

I thought it was €2.54 per month going to the BBC per monthly Sky Ireland sub so just over €30 per year.... €160 sounds like a crazy figure

Sam Russell

If RTE got €10 per year - compared to the BBC €30 - that would give them €14m per year which I am sure would be welcome to RTE. It is also small beer to the pay TV suppliers.

They increase the price every year anyway - they do not need an excuse.

Looking at that number €12m is the cost of running Saorview.

twinklerunner

JDxtra wrote: »

€120? That does not seem right.

Circa 1/3 of the monthly basic sky fee going to BBC .. no chance

STB.

Andy454 wrote: »

The result would be a hike in the packages for Irish Sky TV subscribers - Im sure there are many minds working overtime in Sky given the recent exchange rates euro v sterling looking for a reason to increase packs - lets not give them it on a plate shall we??

How would it result in an increase for Irish Sky subscribers ??? RTE is FTV on Sky. Sky cannot charge for it under the must carry rule.

Andy454 wrote: »

We already pay RTE a TV licence fee, while it does not entitle me to receive these services, I'm really not into paying for things in tripplicate.... lets not have another Irish water thread....

First of all, you pay the collect agent, An Post for having a television, regardless of what you watch as its the law if you possess a television. Yes RTE are the main beneficiary of the licence fee collected. RTE is available free to air terrestrialy and on 9E on satellite. You do not have to enter into any third party agreements with private subscription companies to receive it for free.

Andy454 wrote: »

We actually pay the BBC Licence fee as well as its included in the basic sub rates - we get nothing for free!

Who is we ? Is we people that subscribe to Sky. Again, the BBC channels (all of them) and Channel 4 which is also a PSB are all free to air on satellite on 28.2. You do not have to subscribe to a pay only TV service to receive them for free (ie not pay Sky/UPC).

Andy454 wrote: »

If they really want revenue and to clamp down on evaders - encrypt "Saorview" turn it into "Iocview" and let the people buy an RTE Card from the post office rather than a TV licence, similar to the way to the Swiss do things.

RTE's mandate is to provide a FREE TV service to the Island of Ireland. This is done through Saorview and Saorsat. For people insistent on entering into third party subscription companies like Sky or UPC they can rest assusred that these companies cannot charge any extra for the receiving these channels under the must offer/must carry rules of the Irish Broadcasting Act 2009.

Andy454 wrote: »

They wanted to be on Sky's platform due to dwindling advertising revenue as the platform took hold. It would be very funny if Sky told them to get stuffed and put BBC 1,2 and ITV in their pole positions.....

RTE1 has a 21% market share accross all platforms.

Who do you think will fold first ?

Andy454 wrote: »

120 euro of every Irish sky sub is paid to the BBC - Irish Sky Subscribers wanted the BBC and Sky were berrated with calls from Irish subscribers looking for info on when BBC, itv, ch4 were going to join the line up on a daily basis....

Good god man. You havent a clue.

STB.

Andy454 wrote: »

120 - 160 euro per Irish sub per year goes to bbc worldwide services for carriage of bbc 1 ni, bbc 2 ni on Irish sky epg

The BBC arent obliged to offer Sky its services under UK broadcasting law.

The BBC used to pay circa £5million for carriage. It now pays nothing, not a penny, under a new agreement with Sky. ITV likewise. Thats how much Sky needed them!

RTE does pay for carriage on Sky, but not much. Hence the article. Both BBC and ITV's agreement opened their eyes. Hence RTE kicking up blue murder. Its about time. Content is everything for Pay only companies like Sky. RTE will get what they want. If Sky can drop circa €15m+ on carriage fees for the UK PSB's, what will they be willing to pay to keep RTE, as a way of selling their services in Ireland.

Do a bit of research before you throw out bald statements. I mean its all out there already.

CAS, CARRIAGE & EPG Charges - ALL CHANNELS - 2014 - Pre ITV/BBC Deals

muffler

STB. wrote: »

RTE is FTV on Sky. Sky cannot charge for it under the must carry rule.

I dont think thats correct. You have to pay a subscription to Sky in order to view the RTE channels so its far from free.

STB.

muffler wrote: »

I dont think thats correct. You have to pay a subscription to Sky in order to view the RTE channels so its far from free.

Sky cannot charge any extra for the Irish stations. They are offered as part of its basic subscription package in Ireland. Of course how transparent is this "no extra charge" in Sky's pricing policy. Its not. The simplest example is RTE2 HD. Sky cannot charge extra for any must carry channel they have requested under the must offer rule, hence the RTE HD channel is not packaged with HD channels that you must pay extra for.

I know where you are coming from. The CAS in place ? I guess your argument (which would be very much valid) is that its not true FTV, in that you need a valid and live subscribed card, unlike the UK channels where you simply remove the card from the proprietary Sky box and its works even after unsubscribing.

These channels in the UK are FTA anyway on 28.2E, so there is no issue. RTE does not have pan european rights, its Ireland only, hence why it will never be FTA on 28.2, only FTV (albeit via CAS).

Andy454

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Stillhouette

Andy454 wrote: »

Irish subs were at 80 pence to the euro, almost 200 euro dearer than the UK equivalent packs. (As you are aware, Sky charged UK VAT rates on both Irish and English subs) If you want the info, go Google it yourselves, ring sky tv program services! LAZY people!!! - see people won't even google BBC worldwide - The price charged to sky for Irish subscribers was the same price as a subscriber to BBC PRIME service ( a little more actually because BBC PRIME had adverts)

Lazy people? People rightfully asked you to explain where you pulled the €160 per subscriber figure from. I am still none the wiser after your tantrum. Are you able to provide any factual proof or are you going to continue with guess work and hear say?

muffler

Andy454 wrote: »

120 - 160 euro per Irish sub per year goes to bbc worldwide services for carriage of bbc 1 ni, bbc 2 ni on Irish sky epg

muffler wrote: »

Can you post the source please?

Seeing as you appear to have missed it I'll ask the question again.

nicelives

muffler wrote: »

Seeing as you appear to have missed it I'll ask the question again.

Exactly, don't know where this €120-160 is coming from. When Sky started to include BBC1 NI and BBC2 NI back in 2000, they increased their monthly sub from IR£30 to IR£32 to cover what they said were the rights costs for the two channels.

byte

Pretty sure he won't find a reliable source.

muffler

byte wrote: »

Pretty sure he won't find a reliable source.

A seagull poster so

STB.

Andy454 wrote: »

RTE is not FTV on SKY 28.2 East, You must have an active sky subscription to receive RTE services - Cancel or don't pay your sky bill, RTE will also be deactivated on your card, it was part of the rights deal to ensure "RTE" cards did not end up on auction sites like UK freesatfromsky cards did. RTE's presence on the platform is thought to be mutually beneficial - more advertising revenue for RTE, sky subscribers will have their local TV channels on sky...

The reason why RTE is encrypted through CAS on 28.2 is that they do not own the rights for programming to broadcast outside its own juridisdiction (Ireland) free to air. It has nothing to do with Irish cards ending up in boxes in the UK. This already happens with Irish Sky subscribers in the UK with Irish addresses.

The mutual benefits you are talking about are no longer equally reciprocal. RTE has the highest ratings across all platforms in Ireland. They can pull their services from Sky if they want (with legislative change). Their mandate is to provide a free to service to the Island of Ireland, not pander to some two bit foreign susbcription company.

Andy454 wrote: »

IF RTE CHARGE SKY FOR CARRIAGE, HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO DOUBT THAT SKY WILL PASS ON THAT CHARGE TO IRISH SUBSCRIBERS THEY AREN'T IN THE BUSINESS OF LOOSING MONEY- RULE 1. BUSINESS FOR DUMMIES.

They may not label it as passing on the charge, but they will increase the sub substantially, I do not believe this "must carry" rule applies to sky. SKY only answers to OFCOM.

Rule No in Business for dummies is Sky need RTE more than RTE need them. A bit like Sky needed BBC and ITV more than the €15m+ they were charging them in "carriage" fees to be carried in the UK & Irish subscription market.

You can believe what you want, but its Irish law. OFCOM have no role in Ireland. Sky requested the channel under Section 77 of the Irish Broadcasting Act 2009. Under the must offer rule RTE must provide the channel. Under the must carry rule, Sky must carry the channel without extra charge to its customers.

Andy454 wrote: »

BBC, CH4 and ITV are only "legitimately" receivable by UPC, SKY and UK viewers, The fact you can receive them as "overspill" or on Freesat boxes imported into the country is not guaranteed, although unlikely, they could encrypt tomorrow, move to a satellite with a UK ONLY footprint, RTE could broadcast on the same frequencies in the area known as the republic and the only people that would have legitimate complaints would be Sky or UPC subscribers as they pay UPC, SKY for access to the UK PSB. (see reasons why CHANNEL 4 encrypts when you pull your sky card out)

Legitimately ? Overspill ? Imported Freesat boxes ? Are we stuck in the 90's here ?

Any DVB-S2 Satellite receiver can pick up the BBC's ITV's Ch4's Ch'5s Film Fours E4s etc etc free to air, in HD too. Infact in Ireland most FTA customers use Combo DVB-T/Satellite boxes, both ordinary and linux to view the mix of both Saorview and the free UK channels, "legitimately".

Thankfully, Satellite positions do not recognise borders.

The Astra 2A and 2B positions cover the majority of Europe. Astra 2D the tighter beam covers all of Ireland and the UK.



RTE's market share is well captured by AGB Nielsen/TAM. The audience share hasnt changed in the last 10 years. Its not progaganda, and the advertisers use it as such. This is how the broadcasting industry works in any country.

I havent even read the rest of your post as it struck me as the ramblings of a madman. What was all the capitalised letters about ? Anyhow, you have some strange and misguided views on Irish Broadcasting and broadcasting in general. Do you reside in the state ?

Andy454

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Stillhouette

Where did the €160 figure come from? You cannot throw that out there and then ignore it when people ask you to clarify it. Your ramblings about BBC Prime was not an answer. Do you have cold hard facts about that annual payment to BBC Worldwide or did you pluck the number from thin air? If you want people to respect your opinions then please back them up.

Sam Russell

Andy454 wrote: »

I disagree with your opinion that that "The mutual benefits you are talking about are no longer equally reciprocal".

Yea, people currently subscribe to Sky/UPC to watch RTE something they can get already get for free off the air waves....

If RTE truly believe this they should try go it alone, switch off the UPC and Sky transponders and disconnect from approx 500,000+ homes (approx 1.5 mil people) - I'd sooner them try this than risk yet another hike in the cost of my subscription...

It is funny that RTENL what broadcasters to pay for carriage on DVB-T Network, but then want Sky to pay for them to be carried on theirs!! -Again I don't see too many broadcasters lining up to be on Irish DVB-T network.....

Sky jack up their prices every year without fail. They need no excuse and they will continue to do so until the market says no. They are near that point.

Over 90% of the TV that people actually watch is FREE and people will eventually find out. I know many people who do not switch because:
1. They do not know that they can do it easily.
2. They think it is illegal to receive BBC for free.
3. They do not know how to go about it.
4. They never get round to do it - they have more pressing things to do.
5. They are brainwashed by the extremely high level of Sky marketing. They believe in better - even though it is extremely expensive. I do not think a week goes by but I receive several leaflets from Sky offering me a TV package that I currently get for free.

If RTE impose a charge on Sky and UPC and that charge is passed on, some/many will ditch the pay TV. If those providers drop RTE, then that will be the spur to cause most to drop Sky and UPC - more so Sky, because Freesat is so easy to install in place of Sky. Getting Saorview will be relatively easy to do if you have to if you want to restore RTE.

It is unlikely that RTE would be dropped if a charge was imposed, and it is almost certain that the charge will be passed on by Sky.

Andy454

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Stillhouette

It came from thin air.

helimachoptor

Andy, are you going to answer the numerous questions on your statement on the €120 or are you going to continue to ignore them?

muffler

helimachoptor wrote: »

Andy, are you going to answer the numerous questions on your statement on the €120 or are you going to continue to ignore them?

He has removed every piece of sh1t that he has posted in this thread.

With a bit of luck he wont be back

greendom

I wonder how all this will be affected if the EU's proposal to ban geo-blocking comes to fruition

http://www.broadbandtvnews.com/2015/03/26/european-commission-wants-to-abolish-geo-blocking/

obezyana

STB. wrote: »

The reason why RTE is encrypted through CAS on 28.2 is that they do not own the rights for programming to broadcast outside its own juridisdiction (Ireland) free to air. It has nothing to do with Irish cards ending up in boxes in the UK. This already happens with Irish Sky subscribers in the UK with Irish addresses.

The mutual benefits you are talking about are no longer equally reciprocal. RTE has the highest ratings across all platforms in Ireland. They can pull their services from Sky if they want (with legislative change). Their mandate is to provide a free to service to the Island of Ireland, not pander to some two bit foreign susbcription company.



Rule No in Business for dummies is Sky need RTE more than RTE need them. A bit like Sky needed BBC and ITV more than the €15m+ they were charging them in "carriage" fees to be carried in the UK & Irish subscription market.

You can believe what you want, but its Irish law. OFCOM have no role in Ireland. Sky requested the channel under Section 77 of the Irish Broadcasting Act 2009. Under the must offer rule RTE must provide the channel. Under the must carry rule, Sky must carry the channel without extra charge to its customers.



Legitimately ? Overspill ? Imported Freesat boxes ? Are we stuck in the 90's here ?

Any DVB-S2 Satellite receiver can pick up the BBC's ITV's Ch4's Ch'5s Film Fours E4s etc etc free to air, in HD too. Infact in Ireland most FTA customers use Combo DVB-T/Satellite boxes, both ordinary and linux to view the mix of both Saorview and the free UK channels, "legitimately".

Thankfully, Satellite positions do not recognise borders.

The Astra 2A and 2B positions cover the majority of Europe. Astra 2D the tighter beam covers all of Ireland and the UK.



RTE's market share is well captured by AGB Nielsen/TAM. The audience share hasnt changed in the last 10 years. Its not progaganda, and the advertisers use it as such. This is how the broadcasting industry works in any country.

I havent even read the rest of your post as it struck me as the ramblings of a madman. What was all the capitalised letters about ? Anyhow, you have some strange and misguided views on Irish Broadcasting and broadcasting in general. Do you reside in the state ?

Great reply.