Supervision & Substitution.

jamie124

Hi There,
So , just as a matter of interest:
1. How does S&S work?
2. Does every teacher HAVE TO DO S&S?
3. Is it only teachers that are part of a union that carry out S&S? and those that are NOT part of a union do not?

P.S. - I am not a teacher , I am just curious.

Thanks.

joebloggs32

Not every teacher does it. However those that don't have to pay for the privilege of not doing it, about €1600 per year. All new teachers however will have no choice but to do it.

Moody_mona

joebloggs32 wrote: »

Not every teacher does it. However those that don't have to pay for the privilege of not doing it, about €16000 per year. All new teachers however will have no choice but to do it.

Think you've an extra 0 there

TheDriver

why would a non teacher be anyway interested in this scheme?

theLuggage

joebloggs32 wrote: »

Not every teacher does it. However those that don't have to pay for the privilege of not doing it, about €16000 per year. All new teachers however will have no choice but to do it.

Also teachers who were in the scheme had no choice but to do it either. Opt out wasn't allowed unless you weren't in the scheme in the academic year 2011/2012 I think.

Moody_mona

theLuggage wrote: »

Also teachers who were in the scheme had no choice but to do it either. Opt out wasn't allowed unless you weren't in the scheme in the academic year 2011/2012 I think.

You could opt out if you were in the scheme on a non pensionable basis.

joebloggs32

Moody_mona wrote: »

Think you've an extra 0 there

Well spotted. Easy knowing that I am not a maths teacher. Must edit post.

jamie124

TheDriver wrote: »

why would a non teacher be anyway interested in this scheme?

Well maybe I want to be a teacher.... Or maybe I am just asking a question because I want to , what's the problem?

evolving_doors

jamie124 wrote: »

Well maybe I want to be a teacher.... Or maybe I am just asking a question because I want to , what's the problem?

your explanation is sufficient Jamie124 thanks... back on topic folks

mod

ethical

Has anyone reached their yearly limit on the substitution part of s & s? I am aware in some schools where there are more than 1 teacher per substitution slot that the first named in the slot nearly always gets 'picked' and will reach their quota a lot quicker whereas the 2nd or 3rd named hardly ever get a call.Should there not be a bit of transparency in this.There is one school where the Principal has chosen 5 slots but never gets caught!! It looks good on paper though!!!

solerina

ethical wrote: »

Has anyone reached their yearly limit on the substitution part of s & s? I am aware in some schools where there are more than 1 teacher per substitution slot that the first named in the slot nearly always gets 'picked' and will reach their quota a lot quicker whereas the 2nd or 3rd named hardly ever get a call.Should there not be a bit of transparency in this.There is one school where the Principal has chosen 5 slots but never gets caught!! It looks good on paper though!!!

I know I have never seen either our Principal or our DP have their names on the list of those doing S&s but like in your case both of their names are on the rota....they also don't do any corridor supervision...neither have bought out so they should be doing their share

TheDriver

We do our corridor slots and do substitution as the need arises I.e. When stuck. Trust me it clocks up quickly. Every P and DP should be doing some it, especially break time supervision.

gaiscioch

If somebody misses a day for sickness - either certified or "self-certified" - does that mean that the staff in those time S&S time slots have to cover the teacher (without being paid), or does the school have money to pay somebody to do it?

In what situation can somebody be paid for substitution or supervision nowadays?

gaeilgebeo

gaiscioch wrote: »

If somebody misses a day for sickness - either certified or "self-certified" - does that mean that the staff in those time S&S time slots have to cover the teacher (without being paid), or does the school have money to pay somebody to do it?

In what situation can somebody be paid for substitution or supervision nowadays?

If it is certified leave, a sub can be paid.
Self certified days are covered by S+S.

Moody_mona

gaeilgebeo wrote: »

If it is certified leave, a sub can be paid.
Self certified days are covered by S+S.

I *think* the first day of certified leave is not paid substitution. Open to correction. There were a load of new ones, including force majeur, but I don't know if they were implemented yet.

katydid

ethical wrote: »

Has anyone reached their yearly limit on the substitution part of s & s? I am aware in some schools where there are more than 1 teacher per substitution slot that the first named in the slot nearly always gets 'picked' and will reach their quota a lot quicker whereas the 2nd or 3rd named hardly ever get a call.Should there not be a bit of transparency in this.There is one school where the Principal has chosen 5 slots but never gets caught!! It looks good on paper though!!!

We had that problem, and we insisted that the names in the slots be called on a rota basis. It solved the problem and stopped a lot of resentment.

katydid

solerina wrote: »

I know I have never seen either our Principal or our DP have their names on the list of those doing S&s but like in your case both of their names are on the rota....they also don't do any corridor supervision...neither have bought out so they should be doing their share

They certainly should. The problem with all these things is that while they annoy people, no one ever complains. We had a staff training day a few months ago, and had someone in talking to us about personnel issues in general. At the end, there was an anonymous questionnaire where people could vent about all these unfair things. We got the report back a few weeks ago - wow, you should have seen what came up. There's talk of a follow up to tackle some of these issues, but I suspect people will go back into their polite/scared shells

Delphi91

katydid wrote: »

We had that problem, and we insisted that the names in the slots be called on a rota basis. It solved the problem and stopped a lot of resentment.

The way that I do it (if I have more than one person available in the slot) is that I pick the person with the lowest total hours. VSWare is great for that - it keeps a running total of hours done all the time.

Caiseoipe19

If a teacher is away with a school group at a football match on their rostered lunchtime supervision day, must they find a teacher to swap their supervision days with? (I have seen some people swap their supervision, while heard of others that don't do anything about it and leave it to the principal to sort out, as they see it as not being their problem.)

bearhugs

Caiseoipe19 wrote: »

If a teacher is away with a school group at a football match on their rostered lunchtime supervision day, must they find a teacher to swap their supervision days with? (I have seen some people swap their supervision, while heard of others that don't do anything about it and leave it to the principal to sort out, as they see it as not being their problem.)

We would always be expected to swap with someone.

solerina

bearhugs wrote: »

We would always be expected to swap with someone.

Same here, which I think is very unfair as you are not relaxing during that lunch time, you are in fact supervising students with you at the match.

doc_17

bearhugs wrote: »

We would always be expected to swap with someone.

I never swap with people when I'm away. When I was getting paid for it I did. There is a message up on our staffroom about swapping if you are away but my argument would be that I am already supervising during this period. I did ask my Union area rep about it but they never got back to me about it.

katydid

bearhugs wrote: »

We would always be expected to swap with someone.

Why? You are working during that time.

People really have to stand up for themselves. EITHER you do the football matches OR you do the supervision.

joebloggs32

I never get a swap. When I am away I am supervising for the entire time.

bearhugs

I completely agree, you are supervising constantly when you're away. It's harder to organize a day away at a match, leaving work for your classes or whatever as well as swapping supervision. You're dead right we should stand up for ourselves more. I would be interested in the union policy, it's not something I've really thought to challenge in the past.

doc_17

I contacted the union again and their line is this: If you are away on school business then you don't need to worry about getting anyone to cover it.

Caiseoipe19

doc_17 wrote: »

I contacted the union again and their line is this: If you are away on school business then you don't need to worry about getting anyone to cover it.

Thanks. Was curious as to what went on in other schools. When I was in the situation, I was conscious that if I didn't swap days with someone, that it would be my colleagues that are also on supervision on that day that would be left to pick up the slack and thus get a bit annoyed with me over it.

katydid

Caiseoipe19 wrote: »

Thanks. Was curious as to what went on in other schools. When I was in the situation, I was conscious that if I didn't swap days with someone, that it would be my colleagues that are also on supervision on that day that would be left to pick up the slack and thus get a bit annoyed with me over it.

But you're working, not off getting your nails done...

jamie124

I think our school is short of staff for s&s especially for supervision as some breaks and lunches are left unsupervised in various areas!! which isn't great to be honest , Let's hope NEXT SEPTEMBER more teachers sign up to s&s.

katydid

jamie124 wrote: »

I think our school is short of staff for s&s especially for supervision as some breaks and lunches are left unsupervised in various areas!! which isn't great to be honest , Let's hope NEXT SEPTEMBER more teachers sign up to s&s.

Why would they? It isn't worth the measly bit of money they will EVENTUALLY pay

theLuggage

As far as I remember you can't actually opt back in. I was told this when I opted out - to consider what I may be losing out on down the road. Don't regret it yet anyway!

katydid

theLuggage wrote: »

As far as I remember you can't actually opt back in. I was told this when I opted out - to consider what I may be losing out on down the road. Don't regret it yet anyway!

Can new staff opt in? Why they'd want to is a mystery, but I'm just wondering how that works.

theLuggage

New staff I'd presume can, and actually knowing the Dept, may not even have a choice about it. Someone else may be able to clarify??

ViveLaVie

If you are on a maternity leave contract and you do the S&S and you complete the required hours; and then you move to a different school on a different
contract must you do S&S all over again?

km79

katydid wrote: »

Can new staff opt in? Why they'd want to is a mystery, but I'm just wondering how that works.

new staff can't opt out!

seavill

Teachers can't sign up for S&S they are either in it or they have already paid to be out of it, there won't be any extra teachers to sign up (unless they are newly graduated which they dont actually have a choice they are already in it)

xtralong

Found the following on the ASTI website:

"Teachers must be advised at the start of the school day whether they are required for their substitution rota period(s) for that day and therefore teachers are not required to be on call throughout the school day."

Can anyone advise if this is the case for all teachers in all schools, i.e. TUI and non-union teachers?

implausible

xtralong wrote:

Can anyone advise if this is the case for all teachers in all schools, i.e. TUI and non-union teachers?

Should be. We used to get a text at the start of every day saying if we're needed, now we check vsware.

xtralong

implausible wrote: »

Should be. We used to get a text at the start of every day saying if we're needed, now we check vsware.

Am I right in thinking that if you're not told you are needed in the morning that you don't have to remain in the school for your on call periods that day?

TheDriver

Interesting. I thought you had to be on call I.e. Be in building somewhere. What happens when teacher at 11.30 needs to go him sick?

xtralong

TheDriver wrote: »

Interesting. I thought you had to be on call I.e. Be in building somewhere. What happens when teacher at 11.30 needs to go him sick?

Curious about this myself. Found the following further info. on the ASTI website:

"There is a long standing agreement between ASTI and the management bodies that teachers must be told at the start of the school day whether they are required for their rota period(s) for that day."

Wondering if this was just for ASTI teachers or applied to all teachers, can't find anything else about it in Dept. Circulars. For example, if a teacher is on call for substitution after their last timetabled class of the day and they haven't been informed that they are required to sub can they leave the school?

evolving_doors

TheDriver wrote: »

Interesting. I thought you had to be on call I.e. Be in building somewhere. What happens when teacher at 11.30 needs to go him sick?

... what would happen if the on call teachers were all 'called upon' and another teacher needs to go?

We used to sit in the staffroom waiting nervously by the phone for the whole on-call time, until it was decided that you had to be notified by the morning. I think that was due to a union agreement somewhere though.

If there's a non-on-call teacher in the staffroom could they do it and get paid a substitution rate?

TheDriver

Only if they are not full time and only if they haven't opted out (unless its certified leave etc)

deiseindublin

implausible wrote: »

Should be. We used to get a text at the start of every day saying if we're needed, now we check vsware.

Is that a memo on VSW? Beats checking noticeboards and missing it.

evolving_doors

deiseindublin wrote: »

Is that a memo on VSW? Beats checking noticeboards and missing it.

On yer VSW timetable or dashboard

solerina

Gebgbegb wrote: »

On yer VSW timetable or dashboard

Same here. It shows up in a different colour on VSware before the 9am class.

xtralong

solerina wrote: »

Same here. It shows up in a different colour on VSware before the 9am class.

So if you're not notified in the morning that you are needed to sub are you obliged to be in the school during your on call periods?

evolving_doors

xtralong wrote: »

So if you're not notified in the morning that you are needed to sub are you obliged to be in the school during your on call periods?

That I don't know.. technically no if you haven't been notified in time. they (DES) were trying to push for this a while ago... in that you were supposed to be on the grounds from school open to school close.

solerina

xtralong wrote: »

So if you're not notified in the morning that you are needed to sub are you obliged to be in the school during your on call periods?

No, although I have been called during a class that wasn't on VS ware once or twice when it was needed...I suppose if I had left the building they couldn't have had an issue though !!

evolving_doors

solerina wrote: »

No, although I have been called during a class that wasn't on VS ware once or twice when it was needed...I suppose if I had left the building they couldn't have had an issue though !!

That would come under the category of 'doing someone a favour'... therefore consider yourself now 'owed a favour'.

solerina

Gebgbegb wrote: »

That would come under the category of 'doing someone a favour'... therefore consider yourself now 'owed a favour'.

Nope, it was a supervision class that hadn't previous been put up on vs ware, asked by Principal, doesn't happen very often to be honest.